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Ben Hogan Swing Project

My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

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I have studied Mr. Hogan swings in comparison to some of the more modern swings pretty extensively. This is just kinda what my eye sees between the two you can take it or leave it, only an opinion.

 

Mr. Hogan over the years built in a lot of mechanisms into his swing to compensate for what the modern golf swing considers a flaw. This is not his back swing or positions at the top those are all very good even with the left heel coming off the ground. His mistakes came from the downswing positions and the first move down well and the width of his stance as well.

 

He would push hard off his right foot into his left side spinning open his hips really hard. At impact his hips were open almost 70 to 80* close to 90*, this brought his shoulders open at impact to about 45*. This can cause people that are late on getting the hand in front of the body to get stuck and do one of two things, flip the club over causing a snap hook or block it way right. If you notice that he has to get his hands in front of his hip before they start to spin open along with the shoulders this is clearly visible in the last video you posit if you pause it around 0:21 seconds his hips are only turned open about 45* at that point allowing for his hands to pass by his hips without restrictions. That takes a lot of timing to stop the hips then fire them through after your hands pass by your hips.

 

The mechanisms that Mr. Hogan ended up building into his swing have to do with the grip and the top position in the left wrist. He went to a weak grip at address and a cupped wrist at the top to make sure the face was open in his swing to be able to hit the cut and fight the snap hook that is caused from the spinning of the hips and the natural release of the club.

 

The modern swing is more about 45* hip turn back (hogan has this), flat left wrist (hogan doesn't have this), pitted 90*ish flexed right elbow at the top (hogan has this), left foot on the ground with weight on the inside back heel (hogan has the weight back there but left foot comes up), weight shift to the inside left heel (hogan does this by planting the left heel back on the ground), then pulling with the left side (hogan pushes from the right side), hips 45* open at impact (hogan has 'spun open' at impact), shoulders square to line at impact (hogan is open at about 45*)

 

Looking at the modern golf swing and where Foley is trying to get Tiger to go at 1:21 in the iron down swing from Tiger, you can see his hips are only turned 45* at impact and he looks more 'stacked up' on the left side the head is not dropping down anywhere like it used to.

 

In this video it talks about Tigers swing from 2008 before the knee blew out, he blew his knee out thanks to weight distribution in the follow through being on the ball of his foot rather then the heel, the heel takes pressure off the knee where the ball of the foot pushes all force into torquing the knee. Even then he is about 45* open at impact with his hips. Both of Tigers misses are noted in this video from back then.

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I think i talked about 'bumping the right knee' in towards the target somewhere on this forum, this is probably a bad way to look at the weight transfer it is too easy to get into a push from the right side and start spinning the hips.

 

The better way to look at it I would have to say is feel like you are sitting down into the left heel by pulling with the inside thigh of the left leg, you will feel that inside muscle flex when it is done right, that just gets you hands to drop properly and keep the shoulders lock and wrist cock loaded for power. It also keeps your from spinning the hips open to hard.

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I think i talked about 'bumping the right knee' in towards the target somewhere on this forum, this is probably a bad way to look at the weight transfer it is too easy to get into a push from the right side and start spinning the hips.

 

The better way to look at it I would have to say is feel like you are sitting down into the left heel by pulling with the inside thigh of the left leg, you will feel that inside muscle flex when it is done right, that just gets you hands to drop properly and keep the shoulders lock and wrist cock loaded for power. It also keeps your from spinning the hips open to hard.

 

Thanks for the insight jmiller. All your theories sound plausible. Can you post some of your swing videos? Front view and Down the line?

 

I always like to see how ones mental swing thoughts and theories translate to what they do physically. Helps me to better understand your perspective.

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Thanks for the insight jmiller. All your theories sound plausible. Can you post some of your swing videos? Front view and Down the line?

 

I always like to see how ones mental swing thoughts and theories translate to what they do physically. Helps me to better understand your perspective.

 

Well you are in luck, I have been working through the following videos in the premium membership to study a new swing and how to apply it to what I have correctly.

http://www.rotaryswing.com/ Rotary Swing Tour swing model.

 

I actually have the takeaway and positions at the top almost perfectly the same as they suggested, as I said my faults are in the downswing and what works first and sequence. Moves 1 and 2 were easy for me from modeling my swing after hogan. Where the swing changes is move 3 and 4.

 

My main fault is what they label as a 'spinner' and that is what they labeled Mr. Hogan as well. It deals with the right side working to hard in the down swing a 'push' from the right side rather then a 'pull' from the left. I get 'fast' from the top by 'spinning' and I get stuck causing pushes and snap hooks.

 

So you don't need my personal swing you can take a look at their instructional videos to get an idea of what the modern golf swing based on science is like.

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Well you are in luck, I have been working through the following videos in the premium membership to study a new swing and how to apply it to what I have correctly.

http://www.rotaryswing.com/ Rotary Swing Tour swing model.

 

I actually have the takeaway and positions at the top almost perfectly the same as they suggested, as I said my faults are in the downswing and what works first and sequence. Moves 1 and 2 were easy for me from modeling my swing after hogan. Where the swing changes is move 3 and 4.

 

My main fault is what they label as a 'spinner' and that is what they labeled Mr. Hogan as well. It deals with the right side working to hard in the down swing a 'push' from the right side rather then a 'pull' from the left. I get 'fast' from the top by 'spinning' and I get stuck causing pushes and snap hooks.

 

So you don't need my personal swing you can take a look at their instructional videos to get an idea of what the modern golf swing based on science is like.

 

Hmmmmm, I'd rather see your actually takeaway and positions at the top that are almost perfectly the same as they suggested. You know, for some reason, your post has one of those "only $19.99" vibes.

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Hmmmmm, I'd rather see your actually takeaway and positions at the top that are almost perfectly the same as they suggested. You know, for some reason, your post has one of those "only $19.99" vibes.

 

lol, nah that is not what I was going for at all, I don't have any video of my swing so the faster answer was to post their site, I'm not affiliated with them at all. I'll probably get some video the weekend of May 5th and 6th when I go to test the driver shafts I'll more then likely have data and video hopefully when I do the review of that shaft.

 

Give me a little time and I'll post a swing or two as best as I can, don't have the equipment at my house to be able to have something of high enough quality that we are talking about here.

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lol, nah that is not what I was going for at all, I don't have any video of my swing so the faster answer was to post their site, I'm not affiliated with them at all. I'll probably get some video the weekend of May 5th and 6th when I go to test the driver shafts I'll more then likely have data and video hopefully when I do the review of that shaft.

 

Give me a little time and I'll post a swing or two as best as I can, don't have the equipment at my house to be able to have something of high enough quality that we are talking about here.

 

Understood. I probably had my defensive stance up. I get constantly bombarded by guys trying to sell me the latest fad. Looking forward to your vid. I enjoy picking the hogan out of golf swings.

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Understood. I probably had my defensive stance up. I get constantly bombarded by guys trying to sell me the latest fad. Looking forward to your vid. I enjoy picking the hogan out of golf swings.

 

I can point out the things that cause hogan to fight a snap hook and pushes just in text

--> in the back swing he bumps the left knee towards the right leg and lefts the left heel (this can cause a big hip turn and not a lot of coil in some players, and it is hard to get back over the ball at impact with a sway away from the ball timing critical part of his swing)

--> he has a cupped left wrist and a weak grip (the two main things that he built in to keep from hooking when he got stuck behind his body)

--> his first move down is to plant the left leg by driving with the right leg (this is what opens his hips hard and pushes his shoulders open and in the finish gives the classic reverse C finish, think Johnny Miller for example and Jack Nicklaus both of which ended up having hip replacements and back issues)

 

EDIT: Oh yea hogan also stood up a touch right after impact to be able to release the club, another anti hook move from the hard push and spinning hard. He has a classic one plane swing, it is kind of that simple, most modern golf swings are a little more two dimensional. His book was wrong about the swing plane tilt changing in his down swing.

 

Lots of good things in his swing but some bad ones as well.

 

You can swing like hogan but you are asking for 1000s of reps to in grain the motions then going to probably eventually having back and hip pain or replacements to the hips something that is not good. I like Hogan because he was the first one to really talk about swing plane. The famous 'pane of glass' theory that is still used in the swing today.

 

I am only suggesting that the 'modern' golf swing is more about protecting joints, think a lot of people want to swing like the biggest star on tour for that time. Ernie Els, Freddie Couples, Tiger Woods doesn't really matter much they all have the same type of motions that are designed both for power and to protect their bodies from injury and all have changed their swings over time to do this.

 

Tiger tore up his knee from weight being on the ball of his foot through impact rather then his heel, he tends to spin open and get trapped as well. You can see where you are headed if you are not careful with the swing and how the body functions with the force you put on joints. That is why the Rotary Swing Tour makes since to me, it's all about making movements to protect your body and joints in the swing, play longer more healthy golf.

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Anyways, sorry don't want to hi-jack your topic, just like comparing the old swings to modern golf swings. Look forward to reading your updates.

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