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Is Callaway Crazy? or is it just me.


Dweed

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20 minutes ago, Dweed said:

Read they are introducing Epic Max Star clubs for us older folks. $700 for a driver? $429 for fairway wood? $349 per iron? Whoa.

 

It’s basically their entry into that particular market, which in the US really only XXIO. Predominately you see releases like this in Japan but you’ve seen this lighter and expensive stuff starting to launch stateside over the last few years

 

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On 10/12/2021 at 7:41 PM, Dweed said:

Read they are introducing Epic Max Star clubs for us older folks. $700 for a driver? $429 for fairway wood? $349 per iron? Whoa.

 

Out of my price range.

  • Bag        1590477705_SunMountain.png.3391233ea391e8b6fde951d09bc76f6b.png     C130, 14 way Cart Bag
  • Driver         default_callaway-small.jpg.aef84328349c576af498d3d5dca1addb.jpg                Epic Flash
  • Fairway      default_callaway-small.jpg.aef84328349c576af498d3d5dca1addb.jpg               Epic Flash 3 & GBB Epic 5
  • Hybrid        default_callaway-small.jpg.aef84328349c576af498d3d5dca1addb.jpg               Epic Flash 4H
  • Irons       635785482_Cleveland3.png.bafd9f7d003e9f8afcafc6c28e307467.png         Launcher HB, 4 through PW
  • Wedges 635785482_Cleveland3.png.bafd9f7d003e9f8afcafc6c28e307467.png         CBX2, 54 & 60 degree
  • Putter     Seemore3.jpg.f4ef99613c6f9407a7e1a0a6ce56bf3e.jpg      Seemore Si1
  • 2000014788_ArccosSig.jpg.1a396eb0e7a56229c153cfe6bb5b7435.jpg                            2021 Tester

 

 

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On 10/12/2021 at 8:03 PM, jlukes said:

It’s basically their entry into that particular market, which in the US really only XXIO. Predominately you see releases like this in Japan but you’ve seen this lighter and expensive stuff starting to launch stateside over the last few years

 

Nailed it. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 10/12/2021 at 7:41 PM, Dweed said:

Read they are introducing Epic Max Star clubs for us older folks. $700 for a driver? $429 for fairway wood? $349 per iron? Whoa.

 

They must have a market for what they're selling and a production mechanism that can efficiently serve whatever that volume happens to be.

 

Here's my observation.  With high technology comes, in a certain way, fewer, not more options.

Modern golf clubheads are very sophisticated creations rife with technology and featuring multi-piece construction.

Thus, they cannot be significantly modified.

When golf clubs were simple wooden woods and blade irons, they were admittedly technologically primitive compared to today's offerings.

Be that as it may, the custom clubmaker could give you the EXACT specs that you requested.

That's impossible to do with today's complex designs.  It's not just a matter of lathing a wood or grinding an iron to requested spec..

 

Custom fitting in the launch monitor era is thus comprised of finding the optimum available clubhead for the player, pretty much exactly as manufactured with the possibility of adjusting lie angle, and then matching that clubhead to a very generous variety of exotic shafts.  It works, and the vast majority of players are served well by it.

 

Let's not let ourselves be fooled that they're truly custom clubs, however.  Custom clubs are first and foremost custom clubheads.  And while a few small companies may exist who can actually provide custom clubheads, these clubmakers obviously can't produce them with all the modern technology of OEM clubs.  And the modern technology IS effective and valuable.   So that's where we are.

 

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

Here's my observation.  With high technology comes, in a certain way, fewer, not more options.

Callaway produced 13 different versions of their last driver using AI so there are way more options available with technology than less. The thing that determines the options is how many SKUs a brand wants to keep. Especially when some of those designs fit a very small segment of the population which is why Callaway released less than half of them.

37 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

Custom fitting in the launch monitor era is thus comprised of finding the optimum available clubhead for the player, pretty much exactly as manufactured with the possibility of adjusting lie angle, and then matching that clubhead to a very generous variety of exotic shafts.  It works, and the vast majority of players are served well by it.

The vast majority of fitting involve zero exotic shafts. We will define this as true aftermarket upgrade shafts.

Nearly every brand offers multiple shafts at no upcharge that are not made for shafts. Most amateurs can easily be fit into these no cost shafts and many of those would see very small change in launch characteristics compared to the exotic shafts. Every brand offers multiple weights and flexes in the same shaft to fit all swings. Certain shafts fit the higher end of swing speeds so that shaft will only have 60 or 70g class and in stiff and x flex only. Other will be offered in only longer weights and stiff flex or softer to meet the needs of the average swing speed golfers

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I am in no way disparaging the industry but merely making an observation.

With high tech multi-piece head construction, it's no longer a matter of lathing wood or grinding steel to custom specifications that were once available.

That's the crux of my contention, and while it's not at the forefront of everyone's mind, it is indeed nonetheless true.

There are some combinations that are simply hard to find.

Higher loft, flatter lie angle, and more open face in the same fairway wood or driver, for example.

Used to be a no sweat request for a custom wood maker.   Now, not so much.

I'm not saying that it's a big deal to many people.

I'm just suggesting that it's rarely discussed.

 

 

 

 

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I think we are diving off topic and down a road that is better suited to it's own thread of anyone wants to discuss that more there. 

Callaway has been doing these high high end Clubs for a while now. It as i was told by their rep years ago was to showcase some tech the could do and how awesome they could make the Clubs and it turned into something a lot bigger I guess with a good size market. Of course those initial goals or objectives likely have changed since then.

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 ⛳🛄 as of Sept 24, 2020

SuperSpeed 2020 from 100-112 and climbing!

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero - Set at 10* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 2 and 4 iron

Irons:     :ping-small: i210 5-U w/ Nippon Modus 105 stiff (2018 Tester)

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:      :srixon-small: Z Star

Other:     :Arccos: 

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think we are diving off topic and down a road that is better suited to it's own thread of anyone wants to discuss that more there. 

Callaway has been doing these high high end Clubs for a while now. It as i was told by their rep years ago was to showcase some tech the could do and how awesome they could make the Clubs and it turned into something a lot bigger I guess with a good size market. Of course those initial goals or objectives likely have changed since then.

They're such a big company by industry standards that I'm sure they've done the marketing research on the value of introducing halo products from time to time.

There are some people who drop ten grand at Caesars playing blackjack, roulette, and craps and describe the experience as a relaxing evening.

Those of us who aren't the target demographic will probably find those prices high, but we can only assume that the OEM knows what it's doing.

 

 

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There's always a conspicuous consumption market segment in the USA, there's no reason Callaway should ignore the opportunity since they make high dollar ultra light clubs for Japan already. As conspicuous consumption buyers are often older, where lighter clubs are often a fit, why not...

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I think we are diving off topic and down a road that is better suited to it's own thread of anyone wants to discuss that more there. 

Callaway has been doing these high high end Clubs for a while now. It as i was told by their rep years ago was to showcase some tech the could do and how awesome they could make the Clubs and it turned into something a lot bigger I guess with a good size market. Of course those initial goals or objectives likely have changed since then.

There used to be another guy here that used to take every thread off topic and make it about building his own custom set with specific lofts, flatter lies and open faces on his woods. I forget this name. Man, what a coincidence 

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:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X

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:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW OBAN CT 115X(-)

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:EVNROLL: ER1v #CustomER

:titelist-small: ProV1

 

 

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Callaway has been doing these high high end Clubs for a while now. It as i was told by their rep years ago was to showcase some tech the could do and how awesome they could make the Clubs and it turned into something a lot bigger I guess with a good size market. Of course those initial goals or objectives likely have changed since then.

Correct Jaime, the Epic Star line dates back to 2017 with Great Big Bertha Epic Star... so it's a product on two year release, which is pretty interesting for Callaway lolz, and must be selling pretty ok or else they would get out of the space.

I'm reminded of the story on Honma and the Beres series on the blog a few weeks ago. For Callaway at $700 a head with standard option, nothing custom, if they only sell 2500 drivers to what is an admittedly niche market, that's still 1.75 million in sales and good profit I would assume. Sell an iron set at 2800, sell just 500 of them in season, that's another 1.4 million. For Honma and the Beres, it's even better, but that's the majority of their business here and keeps the other options for the better/younger/less speedy golfer available. For Callaway, it's another piece of a pie

Equivalence being what it is they could need to see 3300 Epic Max's to make driver cost and just under double the amount of Apex sets to meet that Epic Star btw.

It just makes business sense. If the player who wants this is where, offer the product and they'll tell you through sales whether you've missed the mark.

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 :mizuno-small: ST180, 10.5, Kuro Kage Silver TINI Dual Core 60-S 

:callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero, 15*, Kuro Kage Silver TINI Dual Core 60-S 

:755178188_TourEdge: CBX119 18* Hybrid, Project X Evenflow Blue, 6.0

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal Pro 4-P, Nippon 950GH Stiff Flex

:taylormade-small: Hi Toe Raw 48* (bent from 50*), 53* (bent from 54*), and 58*, Nippon 950GH Stiff Flex

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45 minutes ago, Middler said:

There's always a conspicuous consumption market segment in the USA, there's no reason Callaway should ignore the opportunity since they make high dollar ultra light clubs for Japan already. As conspicuous consumption buyers are often older, where lighter clubs are often a fit, why not...

The Tour Spec website features Japanese models that are really expensive, but one wonders what the actual market for them is.

I know one guy at our club--not very well, played with him once--who has some nice looking Miura irons.  But that's about it. 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

The Tour Spec website features Japanese models that are really expensive, but one wonders what the actual market for them is.

I know one guy at our club--not very well, played with him once--who has some nice looking Miura irons.  But that's about it. 

 

The Japanese market is all about high end pricing and exclusivity. Xxio is a huge product in Asia as a hole and has been for a very long time. It’s a brand that’s only been state side for 5 years or so. Callaway and other brands in Japan and Asia do well with high end pricing. 
 

That market doesn’t flinch at a $2500 used scotty cameron circle t putter. They don’t tend to flinch at the higher end prices for a lot of the products. Here that putter would have DMs asking what the best price is or if they could trade something to help offset the cost 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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8 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The Japanese market is all about high end pricing and exclusivity. Xxio is a huge product in Asia as a hole and has been for a very long time. It’s a brand that’s only been state side for 5 years or so. Callaway and other brands in Japan and Asia do well with high end pricing. 
 

That market doesn’t flinch at a $2500 used scotty cameron circle t putter. They don’t tend to flinch at the higher end prices for a lot of the products. Here that putter would have DMs asking what the best price is or if they could trade something to help offset the cost 

Yep.  in the Japanese market, unless it is expensive it won’t sell.  Boutique putter makers also do well in that market space.  Show them a $300 club ant they won’t even consider purchasing.  
 

it’s interesting to look at clubs on eBay that are sold out of Jaoan.  TP Mill, TAd Moore, and other putter makers get 3-5 times what the same putter would sell for in the US. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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