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RoverRick

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@RoverRickJust for clarification after reading through this thread. Are you saying that all heads produce the same distance, regardless of which model, regardless of brand, and it’s only the weighting of the various shafts, the heads, or the type of various shafts themselves that create the distance differences?

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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@PMookieNo. I’m saying that originally I went to the G425MAX because I had swing issues(physical issues) and could not find the center of the face. The Ping was much more forgiving than my older M5. Then as time moved on and my physical issues allowed me to make better swings, my Ping, while still finding the fairway, fell out of favor. I didn’t feel like I was getting the distance for the effort. I had Ping G425Max Driver, 7&9 woods and 6 Hybrid, G410 3&5 woods, i500 6-P irons. I never loved the driver the way I did the 7&9 and 6H. 
 

I went to a TM fitting at my club and got excellent performance out of the SIM2 Max. It was the TM Reps comment of it was how much faster the ball speed was coming off the TM vs the Ping and attributing it to “Hotter Face”. I thought that was BS, and I attributed it to the lighter shaft and head weight and overall “fit” vs just the superior face. I set out to see if I could improve the performance and get similar distance out of the Ping by changing shafts and weights in the back. 
 

I played the TM and Ping side by side for a couple of months. The TM was a 9 set to standard and the Ping was a 10.5 set to 9. These were vastly different heads and I always felt the Ping spun too much for me. The TM was better in looks, sound, and feel and had more of a fade bias while the Ping was more of a draw bias and more forgiving and so easy to hit off the deck, but I didn’t prefer the sound or looks at address. BUT in terms of hit fairways and distance to the pin there was no real difference. Both performed well when set up similarly. 
 

The big difference came when I turned the SIM2 down 2 degrees and hit up more on it. I couldn’t do that with the Ping, but if I would have bought a 10.5 SIM2 I couldn’t have done that either. 
 

Also, I didn’t have launch monitor numbers. I just went by hitting them side by side on the few days I could slip out to the course during the week. (and had to make good swings with both.) I’m pretty sure if I would have done this like I just did my putter and sought professional supervision, I could have come up with the best driver for me in less time (and perhaps cheaper.) But where is the fun in that. However, I sold the Ping and used the proceeds to buy an Evnroll ER5B (after being properly fitted). 
 

I will correct something I stated in the last post. I said I have not drastically increased my swing speed. Truthfully, I have no idea. I probably have increased my speed, it is just that I have reduced the effort in my swing which probably increased my swing speed where it counts. 

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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23 hours ago, PMookie said:

@RoverRickJust for clarification after reading through this thread. Are you saying that all heads produce the same distance, regardless of which model, regardless of brand, and it’s only the weighting of the various shafts, the heads, or the type of various shafts themselves that create the distance differences?

After further review perhaps this was a yes answer. I did say that all faces produce the same ball speed or at least rebound. The TM reps statement about the TM face being hotter was what I called BS on. Not because TM couldn’t make one, but because that particular variable is limited by the USGA and most OEM’s are at the max.  What I am really saying is from lead tape on the toe, to weight in the grip, there are thinks that affect the performance of the club. 

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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Lots of assumptions in here.

Distance being discussed is based on total and not carry. Which both can be achieved in various ways. Comparing two setups with no data one has no idea how much roll if any is why a ball went a certain distance. There’s no comparison on any of the actual launch conditions.

As for all drivers producing same ball speed that’s not true. I’ve been on launch monitors comparing drivers and have watched many. I’ve seen anywhere from 2-5 mph just between TaylorMade models and upwards of 7 between various brands using the same loft and shafts. I’ve seen the g400 be faster than the g410 and g425
 

I’ve watched my fitter hit the epic against the sim and the sim be 2-3mph faster 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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47 minutes ago, RoverRick said:

After further review perhaps this was a yes answer. I did say that all faces produce the same ball speed or at least rebound. The TM reps statement about the TM face being hotter was what I called BS on. Not because TM couldn’t make one, but because that particular variable is limited by the USGA and most OEM’s are at the max.  What I am really saying is from lead tape on the toe, to weight in the grip, there are thinks that affect the performance of the club. 

Ok, thanks! The only thing I’d say to this is you mention TXG in a post. TXG has done NUMEROUS videos where Matt hits drivers using the same exact shaft, weighting, grip, etc, and the numbers are quite different, so there is ample evidence to show “heads are the same” simply isn’t true. Are the rules about CT the same for all heads? Yes, but that doesn’t mean that one head isn’t going to produce higher ball speeds than another, or create more spin than another, etc. Evidence of this is even in the multiple options from each OEM. A TSi2 isn’t going to produce the same ball speeds vs a TSi3, or TSi4 automatically, even if the shafts and weighting are the same. How a player delivers the head, shown all the time on TXG, makes a difference in output. Again, proven all across the internet. Take a look at MGS driver testing. Wouldn’t all testers who try the same head and stock shaft, who swing the same speed, have identical numbers across tested heads? If so, why don’t their numbers all match-up?

I get where you’re going, and from the CT standpoint I get your premise, but if all heads produced the same speeds, and shafts/weighting we’re the only difference maker, TXG wouldn’t even have a channel. 

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

As for all drivers producing same ball speed that’s not true. I’ve been on launch monitors comparing drivers and have watched many. I’ve seen anywhere from 2-5 mph just between TaylorMade models and upwards of 7 between various brands using the same loft and shafts. I’ve seen the g400 be faster than the g410 and g425
 

Definitely true.   I am hitting lots of drivers as part of most wanted testing and have been watching ball speed especially with the TM claims.   Depending on driver I am seeing ball speeds from 149-158.  Why does it vary?  My guess is due to inconsistent strikes and how I react to the club itself.  Also, the different drivers can have wildly different loft and shaft configurations to get toward optimal conditions.  Also different drivers seem to be better setup for specific misses; meaning one could be better high toe and another low heel.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I was saying The FACE is the same speed (Limited COR) Not the overall head. Also the same shaft doesn’t necessarily fit the same head. I would guess with other resources I could have different results, and I have a friend who has a Ping that got pretty much the opposite results from me. 

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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23 minutes ago, RoverRick said:

I was saying The FACE is the same speed (Limited COR) Not the overall head. Also the same shaft doesn’t necessarily fit the same head. I would guess with other resources I could have different results, and I have a friend who has a Ping that got pretty much the opposite results from me. 

Despite the COR/CT being determined that doesn’t mean ball speeds are going to be the same across all drivers. 
 

And yes unless you have the same shaft with either a universal adapter or have multiples of the same shaft with the appropriate adapter for the heads being tested you wouldn’t be able to test that. I have and have watched others do it so an apples to apples comparison compared to the testing done in this thread 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 10/13/2021 at 10:27 AM, cnosil said:

While the latest model may not be better, I think head design has a bigger influence than shaft.  From my experience the wrong head design can not be fixed with a different shaft.  Shaft is definitely important to help deliver the club properly but it won’t make a low spinning head have more spin. 

That is especially true if the heel-toe weight distribution of two heads being compared is significantly different. Heel weighting closes the face and toe weighting opens it. Most modern heads have fairly low centers of gravity so a difference there would be rare. A few have a COG closer to the face which also makes the club play way differently. even with the same shaft. Weighting toward the face makes a driver swing feel more like an iron and tends to keep the face open longer.

Callaway 816 Alpha DBD driver, 3 wood, 5 wood, Alpha 815 3 hybrid, RAZR X Forged cavity back irons 3-AW, 54-14 MD4 wedge, Maltby MS+ wide grind 60 degree lob wedge, 37 inch Rife Swithback Two putter. All clubs overlength - 47 inch driver, 45 inch 3wood, 44 inch 5 wood, 41 inch 3 hybrid, 39.5 inch 5 iron with other irons in line with that. All clubs graphite shafted and X-flex except flex of putter.

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8 hours ago, RoverRick said:

I was saying The FACE is the same speed (Limited COR) Not the overall head. Also the same shaft doesn’t necessarily fit the same head. I would guess with other resources I could have different results, and I have a friend who has a Ping that got pretty much the opposite results from me. 

Face has the POTENTIAL to have the same speed, but they don’t. 

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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