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Should I be looking for an x-stiff driver shaft?


DStar
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Had a session on the GC2 at my course on Saturday and was just trying to gather some info on swing speed etc as I'm looking to do a fitting for some new clubs a bit later in the year and trying to gather as much info as possible to use. 

With my driver I'm getting close to 160mph ball speed (106mph clubhead), 280y carry. Currently have a stiff Matrix Black tie in my Cobra F6 but I'm hoping to upgrade the driver once I've sorted the irons out or, maybe, pick up a different shaft to try...

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, DStar said:

Had a session on the GC2 at my course on Saturday and was just trying to gather some info on swing speed etc as I'm looking to do a fitting for some new clubs a bit later in the year and trying to gather as much info as possible to use. 

With my driver I'm getting close to 160mph ball speed (106mph clubhead), 280y carry. Currently have a stiff Matrix Black tie in my Cobra F6 but I'm hoping to upgrade the driver once I've sorted the irons out or, maybe, pick up a different shaft to try...

 

 

 

 

It all depends many will say that our speed is boarder line between stiff and x-stiff by standard thoughts. Though of course there is a lot more that goes into shaft flex than swing speed. I am at a similar speed but I can get a bit aggressive in transition so for me I play a HZRDUS Smoke Black in x stiff but it could be just as easily that you swing much more deliberately and would do better with a stiff flex shaft. That's just a basic adjustment some make. As I am sure many would say getting fit is the best way to find out. Generally the goal of a shaft is to help you time your delivery of the club and can affect that delivery some, such as angle of attack, strike location, and more. Not to make it more complex, but a good fitter should help get you in the best shaft.

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160 on 106 is pretty efficient.  You're certainly close on the spectrum depending on the manufacturer.  

I am between 112-116 and I still have a HZRDUS Yellow 6.0 Stiff in my g410LST that I used for almost 4 seasons.  I currently play a Tensei White 60-X...It isn't an exact science.

If you're this close and serious about narrowing down your shafts (especially if you're looking for a premium) I would find a trusted fitter and compare as many as possible.  

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It also depends on how you load the shaft. If you are very smooth, then S may be fine. If you have a quick tempo or transition, X may be the better call. As has been said, a fitter can help.

No offense, but I almost ever believe GC2 numbers. I would believe ball speed near 160, which would put your swing speed closer to 108-110. 160/106 = 1.509 smash factor. 1.5 is pretty much absolute best. I don't usually see over 1.45 or 1.46 on GC Quad and see closer to 1.49 on Trackman, and that I believe is because of how they measure clubhead speed.

My gut tells me X would give you tighter dispersion, likely a bit lower spin, and potentially some more distance through better launch conditions.

Not all are equal though. I am in the 110-116mph range on GC Quad and 108 to 114 on Trackman. Pretty smooth transition. I couldn't hit a Ventus Black, but hit the Accra TZ RPG, LA Golf Blue, and Hzrdous IM10 well last week in a fitting. There were other shafts that I just couldn't hit also - all X flex. We are all different.

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The biggest problem I have is being a leftie. Not many places stock much that I can try and there's no Cobra fitter anywhere local..

My irons are a priority at the moment and I'll get fitted for those 1st but it would be interesting to see if a different shaft could make a difference on the driver. I'm happy with distance but could do with tighter dispersion. 

 

 

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Swing speed isn’t a major determining factor in shaft selection. Also flex isn’t that important either. There’s no standard in the industry and some x flex shafts play softer than other x flex shafts. Weight and shaft profile are much more important to consider.

The way a person swings and relaxes the club will be a larger role and how that swing affects balls flight. 

2 people swinging at the same speed but have different transitions will need different shaft flex and/or profile.
 

Getting the right head and shaft combo to optimize launch, spin, apex, descent angle. If you are getting a new driver find a reputable fitter to get you in the right setup. 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

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1 minute ago, DStar said:

The biggest problem I have is being a leftie. Not many places stock much that I can try and there's no Cobra fitter anywhere local..

My irons are a priority at the moment and I'll get fitted for those 1st but it would be interesting to see if a different shaft could make a difference on the driver. I'm happy with distance but could do with tighter dispersion. 

 

 

See my reply that came in at the same time as this one.

there is no guarantee another shaft will improve numbers and without seeing launch monitor numbers nobody can tell if you are currently optimized or if there is any room for improvement.

And going down the rabbit hole of bling buying shafts could lead to issues rather than fixes and can get expensive and it’s really a guessing game for everyone on here on what to try 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Good points, all, thanks.

Maybe I'd be better waiting until I can do a proper driver fitting for something new rather than trying to make what I have better as I've got no options to try anything local. But even with new it's not easy to try LH stuff. 

My pro has a few irons in but not necessarily what I would chose and the course I played yesterday had zero LH clubs of any sort - no irons/putters/woods at all 🙄

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8 minutes ago, DStar said:

Good points, all, thanks.

Maybe I'd be better waiting until I can do a proper driver fitting for something new rather than trying to make what I have better as I've got no options to try anything local. But even with new it's not easy to try LH stuff. 

My pro has a few irons in but not necessarily what I would chose and the course I played yesterday had zero LH clubs of any sort - no irons/putters/woods at all 🙄

Have you looked to see if Worcestershire golf does fittings?

If possible look to see if there are places within 2 hour drive to get fit.

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Have you looked to see if Worcestershire golf does fittings?

If possible look to see if there are places within 2 hour drive to get fit.

 

That's where I'm a member. He's got a few iron heads for demo but no woods and does TM, Ping & Callaway but I'm liking the look of Mizuno or Titleist from a visual POV. Performance may be better with something else so will give as many as possible a try. 

I'll just stick with the driver for now and do a proper fitting when funds allow 👍

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1 minute ago, DStar said:

That's where I'm a member. He's got a few iron heads for demo but no woods and does TM, Ping & Callaway but I'm liking the look of Mizuno or Titleist from a visual POV. Performance may be better with something else so will give as many as possible a try. 

I'll just stick with the driver for now and do a proper fitting when funds allow 👍

Ok. Sounds good. The carry distance you posted is pretty close to optimal for the speed. I would say the chances you improve spin or launch will be minimal. Dispersion improvement could come from swing work but again with no other numbers really hard to say

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I have a 107 speed and I was fit into an X shaft. Not sure what that translates to ball speed, but it was on trackman. I have a Diamana White 70X in my driver. 

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Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar

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At 75, swing speed 93, ball speed 132, TSI3 driver with a Fujikura Speeder 661 TR Stiff shaft, 10.75*, 2200 spin and getting it out there around 260 with the Prov1 golf ball.  I was fitted by a certified Titleist fitter with over 25 years experience.   Getting about as good and I can get for my age and numbers.   Love having it in the short grass and in the middle.  👌   

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For reference I am a smooth transition guy, but below is a story of real life experience with different shaft flexes. 

I was working at Copper River Country Club in about 2002. I was the assistant Pro and we were having a Taylor Made Demo day on the range. I was close to the same CHS as I am now, pushing it out there around 300 (probably would have been longer if I knew then what I know now) but I digress. Someone asked if I would hit one. So I reached into a huge staff bag of drivers and grabbed one. Tee it up and the first one BAM!! just an absolute rocket, tee up another one and Bam, same thing. Just absolute rockets. Now I am wondering how I can't put this driver in my bag. After about 5 just bombs, I finally look at the club. It is a 10.5 (which in those days was very high loft) and had an M flex. What is a M flex? At that time it was TM's senior flex shaft. So there was almost zero difference in the results from my X flex gamer and a Senior flex for my game. SO it is quite possible that you are in the right shaft, regardless of SS. IMO the flex is probably one of the most, overrated (maybe not the right word), aspect of equipment. 

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27 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

For reference I am a smooth transition guy, but below is a story of real life experience with different shaft flexes. 

I was working at Copper River Country Club in about 2002. I was the assistant Pro and we were having a Taylor Made Demo day on the range. I was close to the same CHS as I am now, pushing it out there around 300 (probably would have been longer if I knew then what I know now) but I digress. Someone asked if I would hit one. So I reached into a huge staff bag of drivers and grabbed one. Tee it up and the first one BAM!! just an absolute rocket, tee up another one and Bam, same thing. Just absolute rockets. Now I am wondering how I can't put this driver in my bag. After about 5 just bombs, I finally look at the club. It is a 10.5 (which in those days was very high loft) and had an M flex. What is a M flex? At that time it was TM's senior flex shaft. So there was almost zero difference in the results from my X flex gamer and a Senior flex for my game. SO it is quite possible that you are in the right shaft, regardless of SS. IMO the flex is probably one of the most, overrated (maybe not the right word), aspect of equipment. 

My buddy that built my driver, owns Xphlexxx long drive shaft company, went to have Berkshire try his stuff. Sure enough, Berkshire plays a weak flex! He’s not in the XXXX stuff. Crazy!

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Driver: Honma TR 460 8.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 S, 45 1/4"; Ping G425 LST, Fujikura Speeder TR 661 S, 45 1/2"

hybrids: Cobra King Tec 17* and 21*, both with Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 105 X

Irons:  Srixon ZX5 4-6, ZX7 7-PW, UST Mamiya Recoil F4, +1”

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2 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I have a 107 speed and I was fit into an X shaft. Not sure what that translates to ball speed, but it was on trackman. I have a Diamana White 70X in my driver. 

Ball speed will change based on how the club face is delivered to the ball. Swing speed doesn’t have a direct correlation to ball speed but the higher the swing speed the more chance for higher ball speed

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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When I was fit for my driver shaft (Tensei ck pro white 60g) I was swinging 118. New swing, I’m down in the 106-110 range and hitting it farther than before. Same shaft, much slower swing speed, but higher ball speed and lower spin. I’ve tried some non x-stiff shafts and no dice, I just can’t control them. If you find something that works for you, I’d hold on to it. By all means, try others, but don’t sell your #1.

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On 10/25/2021 at 7:51 AM, DStar said:

The biggest problem I have is being a leftie. Not many places stock much that I can try and there's no Cobra fitter anywhere local..

My irons are a priority at the moment and I'll get fitted for those 1st but it would be interesting to see if a different shaft could make a difference on the driver. I'm happy with distance but could do with tighter dispersion. 

 

 

I had a driver shaft fitting 3 years ago and for ME. the best shaft was an X flex model. I got a tighter dispersion pattern with the X flex and the SAME distance within a yard. so I went with the X flex. I would also recommend you try a shaft with LOW torque rating as that is what can make a difference is shot pattern. I tried two shaft of the same model, one with lower torque, and the lower torque shaft had me hitting 80% of the fairways while the higher torque shaft had me at 50%. My driver head speed is usually around 105 MPH but the day of the test it was below 100, so the S flex was a BETTER fit in terms of speed, but NOT for finding fairways. ALL testing was done with a Ping G400 Max 10.5* head on a Trackman. My smash factor that day was 1.52, which is a bit high but not too much. 

I had my fitting as a CC store, and that is NOT an endorsement just for info. They have hundreds of driver shafts and it should NOT be an issue being a lefty as that shouldn't make a difference in what shafts you can try in a driver head. OFF THE SHELVE drivers YES, but not for after market shafts to go in your head.  

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17 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Ball speed will change based on how the club face is delivered to the ball. Swing speed doesn’t have a direct correlation to ball speed but the higher the swing speed the more chance for higher ball speed

I do NOT think I would use your wording for this. Swing speed DOES have a direct correlation to ball speed, IF all other things are the SAME. IF you miss hit the ball with an 110 MPH swing and hit it solid with a 105 MPH swing, then YES, you could get more ball speed with the 105 swing, but that is like comparing apples to oranges. Bottom line is that IF ball contact is the same with both swings, the 110 swing will produce a higher ball speed. I'll take a 110 MPH swing hitting the ball in the center of the face over a 105 MPH swing hit in the exact same plane EVERY TIME. 

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42 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

I do NOT think I would use your wording for this. Swing speed DOES have a direct correlation to ball speed, IF all other things are the SAME. IF you miss hit the ball with an 110 MPH swing and hit it solid with a 105 MPH swing, then YES, you could get more ball speed with the 105 swing, but that is like comparing apples to oranges. Bottom line is that IF ball contact is the same with both swings, the 110 swing will produce a higher ball speed. I'll take a 110 MPH swing hitting the ball in the center of the face over a 105 MPH swing hit in the exact same plane EVERY TIME. 

I think anyone would take the 110 centered up over a 105 centered up. But that’s unfortunately not a guarantee.

Theres people across multiple golf forums that have high swing speeds and hit the ball 260 because their swings are out of sequence.

The point of my post was to say one can’t say X swing speed is going to produce Y ball speed. And X swing speed doesn’t equal Z shaft flex. It gives the fitter an idea where to start and then based on results of ball flight, launch numbers and golfer feedback they adjust there. And for someone blind buying to get a ball park of where to look. There’s members on this site that try to blind fit themselves based on swing speed or their thoughts on spin and launch and failed at that. Others have gone into fittings thinking they would be in a certain flex and/or weight shaft and end up in a shaft that they would never have considered on their own.

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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