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Should I be looking for an x-stiff driver shaft?


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23 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Theres people across multiple golf forums that have high swing speeds and hit the ball 260 because their swings are out of sequence.

 

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44 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I think anyone would take the 110 centered up over a 105 centered up. But that’s unfortunately not a guarantee.

Theres people across multiple golf forums that have high swing speeds and hit the ball 260 because their swings are out of sequence.

The point of my post was to say one can’t say X swing speed is going to produce Y ball speed. And X swing speed doesn’t equal Z shaft flex. It gives the fitter an idea where to start and then based on results of ball flight, launch numbers and golfer feedback they adjust there. And for someone blind buying to get a ball park of where to look. There’s members on this site that try to blind fit themselves based on swing speed or their thoughts on spin and launch and failed at that. Others have gone into fittings thinking they would be in a certain flex and/or weight shaft and end up in a shaft that they would never have considered on their own.

 

I think most of us here would agree that X SS will not produce Y ball speed. But I also think most of us here will agree that with Equal quality ball contact a higher SS will produce a higher Ball speed, and that is exactly what I posted in my reply to your post. Every thing else being EQUAL. more SS means more ball speed. I hope we can agree on that.

And I also agree with you that we can NOT guarantee center hits on all shots, but that goes for ALL swing speeds, not just the faster ones. ONE thing I find interesting is how many golfers don't know how much a properly aligned shaft can do for quality ball striking. If the shaft is NOT aligned in the head properly it's a toss up whether the ball contact will be consistent or not. I've seen tests that show that with a driver with a factory installed shaft a golfer can miss the sweet spot by over 1/2 and inch with a good swing. With a properly aligned shaft that will not happen. Which is one reason I spine and FLO align all of my shafts before I install them in my clubs. 

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4 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

I think most of us here would agree that X SS will not produce Y ball speed. But I also think most of us here will agree that with Equal quality ball contact a higher SS will produce a higher Ball speed, and that is exactly what I posted in my reply to your post. Every thing else being EQUAL. more SS means more ball speed. I hope we can agree on that.

And I also agree with you that we can NOT guarantee center hits on all shots, but that goes for ALL swing speeds, not just the faster ones. ONE thing I find interesting is how many golfers don't know how much a properly aligned shaft can do for quality ball striking. If the shaft is NOT aligned in the head properly it's a toss up whether the ball contact will be consistent or not. I've seen tests that show that with a driver with a factory installed shaft a golfer can miss the sweet spot by over 1/2 and inch with a good swing. With a properly aligned shaft that will not happen. Which is one reason I spine and FLO align all of my shafts before I install them in my clubs. 

Yes we agree on that and my post was purely that X ss doesn’t equal Y ball speed

There are experts that don’t agree with your stance on properly aligned shafts especially in graphite. While some will say that shaft manufacturers will obviously say that shafts don’t need to be aligned because that would mean their products have flaws(I’ve seen this point on several forums) however I’ve spent time with two shaft manufactures and 2 club manufacturers and they both say it’s not needed.

then there is the pro gram where not every pro has shafts pured, flowed and so on. Some swear by it and others don’t use it at all, so let’s get away from speaking in certainties on a process that isn’t proven 100% effective 

iirc TXG who is in the club building business and offer these services did a test and there was no discernible difference 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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18 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes we agree on that and my post was purely that X ss doesn’t equal Y ball speed

There are experts that don’t agree with your stance on properly aligned shafts especially in graphite. While some will say that shaft manufacturers will obviously say that shafts don’t need to be aligned because that would mean their products have flaws(I’ve seen this point on several forums) however I’ve spent time with two shaft manufactures and 2 club manufacturers and they both say it’s not needed.

then there is the pro gram where not every pro has shafts pured, flowed and so on. Some swear by it and others don’t use it at all, so let’s get away from speaking in certainties on a process that isn’t proven 100% effective 

iirc TXG who is in the club building business and offer these services did a test and there was no discernible difference 

As a golfer that builds clubs, I can say that "I" cam tell a difference in an aligned shaft and one that has not been aligned.  I do a spine and FLO alignment on EVERY shaft I use when building up a club, and it is MY experience that it does in fact make a difference, sometimes quite a large one. 

My question for you is "Have YOU tried a test of aligned and non-aligned shaft in your hands to see if YOU can tell the difference?  If not you might want to try it. 

I have also seen a repost on a test that was done by GolfSmith about 19 years ago. They took 4 OEM drivers, one from each of the 4 top selling companies at that time. and hit 10 balls with each using a Swing Machine Robot. When they were done, the average of each of those 4 driver was that the ball impact on the face of the club averaged just under 5/8ths of an inch "OFF CENTER"  Some were hit low, some high, others inside and others toward the toe.  UP to 5/8" off center with EACH of those OEM clubs. Then the did the test again, using a shaft that was SST Pured, installed in a SnakeEyes head. When they tested this club in the same machine, ALL ball impacts were within 1/8" of dead center.   I'll let YOU decide if that would matter to YOU or not.  For ME, it sure would and it does. 

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22 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

As a golfer that builds clubs, I can say that "I" cam tell a difference in an aligned shaft and one that has not been aligned.  I do a spine and FLO alignment on EVERY shaft I use when building up a club, and it is MY experience that it does in fact make a difference, sometimes quite a large one. 

My question for you is "Have YOU tried a test of aligned and non-aligned shaft in your hands to see if YOU can tell the difference?  If not you might want to try it. 

I have also seen a repost on a test that was done by GolfSmith about 19 years ago. They took 4 OEM drivers, one from each of the 4 top selling companies at that time. and hit 10 balls with each using a Swing Machine Robot. When they were done, the average of each of those 4 driver was that the ball impact on the face of the club averaged just under 5/8ths of an inch "OFF CENTER"  Some were hit low, some high, others inside and others toward the toe.  UP to 5/8" off center with EACH of those OEM clubs. Then the did the test again, using a shaft that was SST Pured, installed in a SnakeEyes head. When they tested this club in the same machine, ALL ball impacts were within 1/8" of dead center.   I'll let YOU decide if that would matter to YOU or not.  For ME, it sure would and it does. 

I haven’t and have no intention to. It’s not something I’m interested in and there’s enough opinions that I’ve read over the years plus with the conversations I’ve had with PX and UST to not worry about it.

Not to mention shaft technology especially in graphite has improved drastically in the 19 years from that study that it’s more than likely obsolete in relation to graphite 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I haven’t and have no intention to. It’s not something I’m interested in and there’s enough opinions that I’ve read over the years plus with the conversations I’ve had with PX and UST to not worry about it.

Not to mention shaft technology especially in graphite has improved drastically in the 19 years from that study that it’s more than likely obsolete in relation to graphite 

Just what I expected you to say, YOU have NO experience with aligned shaft and yet you think it does matter. Funny how some people think. As for UST, I happen to have a few of their recent shaft model in a few of my clubs. I did the spine and FLO alignment on each of them and it was EASY for find the spine of each, and easy to do the FLO alignment as well. So much for what UST told you, they were pulling your leg, as usual. 

In the 18 years I've been building golf clubs I have only found ONE shaft that didn't need the alignment work. ONE out of THREE from the same company and they each sold for $500 per stick. Don't even ask about factory shafts as they are worse yet. 

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1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

Just what I expected you to say, YOU have NO experience with aligned shaft and yet you think it does matter. Funny how some people think. As for UST, I happen to have a few of their recent shaft model in a few of my clubs. I did the spine and FLO alignment on each of them and it was EASY for find the spine of each, and easy to do the FLO alignment as well. So much for what UST told you, they were pulling your leg, as usual. 

In the 18 years I've been building golf clubs I have only found ONE shaft that didn't need the alignment work. ONE out of THREE from the same company and they each sold for $500 per stick. Don't even ask about factory shafts as they are worse yet. 

Well duh I literally told you several times it’s not something that’s 100% agreed on in the industry and that even the best in world don’t do it and that top notch club fitters and builders at TXG found it to not be necessary.

Funny how both UST and PX told me and those with me on the trips to use logo down and you will be fine and that’s how I’ve used my shafts with no issues for the last 5 years. It’s also how every fitting I went to where the hosel wasn’t set at default the shafts were installed logo down. I am going to take the advice of the extremely smart people who actually design shafts for a living. And the UST person worked with bridgestone in their club department before going to UST. 

Funny thing is there was a thread today on WRX and the general theme in there was pretty much the same thing that it’s snake oil.

Not to mention there tons of videos from Taylormade fitting van of them building clubs for pros like DJ and Rory and they don’t flow the shafts. 

I don’t care if people want to do it and it gives them a comfort level based on whatever experience or research they done. If they can notice a difference great, good for them and the success they have with it. Whatever someone wants to do with their money and peace of mind they can. 

It’s also a subject I don’t care much about and everyone has their opinion on it and that’s fine. We don’t agree and that’s fine too and I won’t be losing any sleep over our differences of opinion on the need to or not to flow a shaft. Also not going to lose sleep over how it may or may not have any impact on a hobby that doesn’t affect whether I’ll be able to pay my bills or not.

My only objection to your stance was that it’s not a process that everyone agrees on and that speaking in certainties about it and it be if something every golfer should do or that golfer should know about.

With all that said I’m out on further discussions about whether to flow or not

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I used to have all my wood shafts PURED from Golfsmith back in the day. My old iron shafts (DG Sensicore x100) are pured. Nothing in my bag today has been pured. I honestly cannot tell the difference, and ball striking has been my strength my entire career. I dont believe I am good enough to know the difference. Given that not all the guys who play the game for a living do it, and we all know they want every advantage, not sure most of them can tell a difference either.

On another note, i have played around a lot with driver settings over the years and am still doing so in my TSI3. Right now, in the current setting, it is logo up, which means spine aligned from the factory. I had the cog set differently on Saturday so it was logo down essentially. Hit 9 of 11 fairways Saturday,  9 of 13 yesterday in the two settings. So pureing or floing a shaft on an adjustable hosel is almost useless in my opinion, since a fair amount of people play with the settings.

I have been building my own sticks for 19 years, had shafts pured and not pured. My conclusion,  along with almost all human testing I have seen: inconclusive at best. 

If it is something you do to give more confidence,  have at it. It certainly doesn't hurt. 

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Titleist TSI3 8°, Xcaliber Avalon 6 tour stiff, tipped 1", D3 surefit and H2, D5 SW, 45 3/8", PING G425 LST 3 wood, set at 13.5° Xcaliber Avalon T6*, tipped 1 1/4" 43 1/2", D4, Maltby KE4 FDI 19° (bent to 17°)Modus 120S 3 iron shaft,

Maltby TS-1 irons, Modus 120X soft stepped once, 4-6, Dynamic Gold Sensicore x100 7-pw, D4, 2° flat

Cleveland RTX Zipcore wedges, black satin, 50°, 54°, 58°

Ping TR series Anser 5, 33", 2° flat, 1.5° strong

Tp5x pix

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Well the X-stiff shaft is on it's way as a trial. Will see how it goes and report back 🙂 

:cobra-small: RADSpeed 9° Matrix Black Tie X-Flex 🐺 

:cobra-small: F9 3/4 Wood Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 

:mizuno-small:CLK 19° Hybrid Speeder Evo HB S 

:mizuno-small: MP54 4-PW Nippon Modus³ Tour 115 X

:titleist-small: SM8 50° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 54° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 58° K-Grind 

DStar 'Malvern' Putter 🆕

:titelist-small: AVX & -ProV1X

:footjoy-small: Tour-X 

"Hey mister, your clubs are the wrong way round"..

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Quick 30 minutes on the practice ground with the X and much better consistency. Had a bag of old balls to play with..

Early days I know but felt much sweeter, plenty of centre head strikes and a nice little draw. Slightly down hill, 300 yrd range - 15 out of 25 balls through the back 😁

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:cobra-small: RADSpeed 9° Matrix Black Tie X-Flex 🐺 

:cobra-small: F9 3/4 Wood Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 

:mizuno-small:CLK 19° Hybrid Speeder Evo HB S 

:mizuno-small: MP54 4-PW Nippon Modus³ Tour 115 X

:titleist-small: SM8 50° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 54° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 58° K-Grind 

DStar 'Malvern' Putter 🆕

:titelist-small: AVX & -ProV1X

:footjoy-small: Tour-X 

"Hey mister, your clubs are the wrong way round"..

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On 10/25/2021 at 2:58 PM, ChuckZ said:

At 75, swing speed 93, ball speed 132, TSI3 driver with a Fujikura Speeder 661 TR Stiff shaft, 10.75*, 2200 spin and getting it out there around 260 with the Prov1 golf ball.  I was fitted by a certified Titleist fitter with over 25 years experience.   Getting about as good and I can get for my age and numbers.   Love having it in the short grass and in the middle.  👌   

DAMN DUDE, you are my new idol. I want to hit the ball like that at my age let alone 73. Keep it up I've got some work to do. 

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Epic GBB driver 10.5 turned down to 9.5 Hzruds 6.5 smoke shaft. 

Titleist U15 1 iron 

Sub 70 699 Pro 4-AW 

Sub 70 3 utility 19*

Callaway 56 and 58 wedge. 

OG White Hot #1 putter

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  • 2 weeks later...

Used the new shaft for the 1st proper game on Friday and, safe to say, the change was worth it. A bit of a gamble but hit a heck of a lot more fairways than usual and with a lovely draw too.

I know it's not been 'fitted' to me but on a limited budget I could justify a punt and it seems to have been worth it. Hopefully more of the same this week. 

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:cobra-small: RADSpeed 9° Matrix Black Tie X-Flex 🐺 

:cobra-small: F9 3/4 Wood Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 

:mizuno-small:CLK 19° Hybrid Speeder Evo HB S 

:mizuno-small: MP54 4-PW Nippon Modus³ Tour 115 X

:titleist-small: SM8 50° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 54° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 58° K-Grind 

DStar 'Malvern' Putter 🆕

:titelist-small: AVX & -ProV1X

:footjoy-small: Tour-X 

"Hey mister, your clubs are the wrong way round"..

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What shaft did you get?

Titleist TSI3 8°, Xcaliber Avalon 6 tour stiff, tipped 1", D3 surefit and H2, D5 SW, 45 3/8", PING G425 LST 3 wood, set at 13.5° Xcaliber Avalon T6*, tipped 1 1/4" 43 1/2", D4, Maltby KE4 FDI 19° (bent to 17°)Modus 120S 3 iron shaft,

Maltby TS-1 irons, Modus 120X soft stepped once, 4-6, Dynamic Gold Sensicore x100 7-pw, D4, 2° flat

Cleveland RTX Zipcore wedges, black satin, 50°, 54°, 58°

Ping TR series Anser 5, 33", 2° flat, 1.5° strong

Tp5x pix

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15 minutes ago, jtgavigan said:

What shaft did you get?

Matrix Ozik Black Tie (the same model as the shaft I had but X flex) 

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:cobra-small: RADSpeed 9° Matrix Black Tie X-Flex 🐺 

:cobra-small: F9 3/4 Wood Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 

:mizuno-small:CLK 19° Hybrid Speeder Evo HB S 

:mizuno-small: MP54 4-PW Nippon Modus³ Tour 115 X

:titleist-small: SM8 50° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 54° F-Grind 

:titleist-small: SM8 58° K-Grind 

DStar 'Malvern' Putter 🆕

:titelist-small: AVX & -ProV1X

:footjoy-small: Tour-X 

"Hey mister, your clubs are the wrong way round"..

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  • 4 weeks later...

when trying to figure out about your shaft flex, look at ball speed, clubhead speed and spin.  The rest does not matter.  If your spin numbers are good, which I assume they are if you are carrying 280 with 160mph ball speed, then your search is futile.  Those numbers are going to be really hard to beat.

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  • 1 month later...

in my experience An "X" in the same weight class and in the same make and model line as a Stiff shaft always seems to yield more consistency for a player regardless of their swing speed. People get hung up on swing speed and it's only one element. Tempo, transitions, and delivery through impact all matter. I've not seen anyone with a swing speed and 100 hit an X badly, I've seen plenty of them hit a Stiff flex all over the course and I've also seen guys with 110+ hit a Stiff well. The best thing you can do is try them out, and preferably on the course. 

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