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DLow206 MOI Matching Build


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Since I am going to be making the switch back to graphite, I thought why not do a MOI matching build. More to come soon 😀

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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Following this in hopes you find success. I’ve thought of tinkering with this arena. I wonder if sub70 would moi match a set?

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22 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

Following this in hopes you find success. I’ve thought of tinkering with this arena. I wonder if sub70 would moi match a set?

Thanks, not expecting it to make a huge difference, but i've never really figured out what is the right "swingweight" to play in irons. I have specifically asked fitters in the past during paid fittings and have never gotten a useful answer. The worst answer I got was from club champion, who said "we think people should play heavier irons". It was such a generic comment with no context to me and my swing. 

My approach will be to build a 9 iron only, no added tip weights. Go to the range and see what feels right based on hitting balls and slowly adding lead tape. Once I find what is right, then pull back apart the head and weight the 9 iron head. That will help to determine the right MOI and then build the set accordingly. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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Step 1 was to record the weight for each head:

image.png.8bd7ab8f1f225cff76099ab6270f7d5e.png

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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14 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Thanks, not expecting it to make a huge difference, but i've never really figured out what is the right "swingweight" to play in irons. I have specifically asked fitters in the past during paid fittings and have never gotten a useful answer. The worst answer I got was from club champion, who said "we think people should play heavier irons". It was such a generic comment with no context to me and my swing. 

My opinion is that this is going to come down to trial and error testing, and you may find out your ideal swing weight during your MOI matching experiment. From the standpoint of the fitter, the right swing weight is going to be the one that works best for you, but I've never had a fitter play around with swing weights during a fitting.

For me, slightly heavier seems to jive better with my swing. D4 is the sweetspot, though a point on either side isn't a noticeable difference. My numbered wedges go to D6.5. When I did #CC4, the SpeedZones were much lighter (D0, I believe) and I have a terrible time squaring those up.

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Your journey to playing better golf has introduced a lot of variables lately without giving any of them enough time IMO to see if they work long term.

Youve changed instructors several times and now swing philosophies including grip size and how you hold it. You mention you are hitting the irons better and driving more accurately but I don’t recall if your scoring or handicap has dropped.

Youve changed irons a few times and the ones you are currently moi testing you ordered with your go to shaft.

you obviously enjoy the tinkering and club building which is cool and fun. Hit curious how you will know if it’s the swing. The club itself or the moi setup that would be the issue with any problems you see with ball flight on the course. 
 

I’m definitely curious to see how things go with this and your thoughts along the way.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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16 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Thanks, not expecting it to make a huge difference, but i've never really figured out what is the right "swingweight" to play in irons. I have specifically asked fitters in the past during paid fittings and have never gotten a useful answer. The worst answer I got was from club champion, who said "we think people should play heavier irons". It was such a generic comment with no context to me and my swing. 

My approach will be to build a 9 iron only, no added tip weights. Go to the range and see what feels right based on hitting balls and slowly adding lead tape. Once I find what is right, then pull back apart the head and weight the 9 iron head. That will help to determine the right MOI and then build the set accordingly. 

Most say folks don't even notice a 3 SW change or less but I definitely did.  Your approach to use lead tape in order to find the "best feel" is perfect. 

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Your journey to playing better golf has introduced a lot of variables lately without giving any of them enough time IMO to see if they work long term.

Youve changed instructors several times and now swing philosophies including grip size and how you hold it. You mention you are hitting the irons better and driving more accurately but I don’t recall if your scoring or handicap has dropped.

Youve changed irons a few times and the ones you are currently moi testing you ordered with your go to shaft.

you obviously enjoy the tinkering and club building which is cool and fun. Hit curious how you will know if it’s the swing. The club itself or the moi setup that would be the issue with any problems you see with ball flight on the course. 
 

I’m definitely curious to see how things go with this and your thoughts along the way.

Yeah, i know i have changed a lot of things and a lot of variables, and i own that.

I tried to make steel shafts work for a couple of rounds and my body is not liking it. Have some pre-existing issues, wouldn't call them injuries, but issues that can flare up and cause discomfort. 

So as i rebuild my set with graphite shafts, I wanted to at least test the clubs with different weights and have consistency across the set, which is what the MOI matching will allow me to do. While it may or may not improve my on-course performance, i don't think its going to make it worse. But i guess anything is possible 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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4 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Yeah, i know i have changed a lot of things and a lot of variables, and i own that.

I tried to make steel shafts work for a couple of rounds and my body is not liking it. Have some pre-existing issues, wouldn't call them injuries, but issues that can flare up and cause discomfort. 

So as i rebuild my set with graphite shafts, I wanted to at least test the clubs with different weights and have consistency across the set, which is what the MOI matching will allow me to do. While it may or may not improve my on-course performance, i don't think its going to make it worse. But i guess anything is possible 

That’s cool. It’s been an interesting journey to follow. I get the graphite thing. Even without any issues I like graphite shafts and they are what’s in main set right now and will probably be in most sets I get going forward, whether I buy the shafts separate and have will build them for me or if I order them thru the manufacturer.

Definitely going to be reading this thread for your updates 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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27 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Most say folks don't even notice a 3 SW change or less but I definitely did.  Your approach to use lead tape in order to find the "best feel" is perfect. 

I have heard that as well. I think i am somewhat weight sensitive, not sure if its swingweight or totalweight. Maybe its total weight that is an issue for me? I will give an example.

In fittings, i have hit standard length irons because they don't usually have shorter length irons. Whatever that stock swingweight/total weight is, is usually acceptable, i don't get that "too heavy" feel. Let's just say that swingweight was D2 just for this example. Now, when i order that same club, but 1/2 inch shorter, which reduces the swingweight by 3ish points, and then tip weights are added to bring it back to D2, that club just starts to feel heftier to me than the original one. I'm not sure if its just in my head or its a real thing with me feeling that difference. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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16 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I have heard that as well. I think i am somewhat weight sensitive, not sure if its swingweight or totalweight. Maybe its total weight that is an issue for me? I will give an example.

In fittings, i have hit standard length irons because they don't usually have shorter length irons. Whatever that stock swingweight/total weight is, is usually acceptable, i don't get that "too heavy" feel. Let's just say that swingweight was D2 just for this example. Now, when i order that same club, but 1/2 inch shorter, which reduces the swingweight by 3ish points, and then tip weights are added to bring it back to D2, that club just starts to feel heftier to me than the original one. I'm not sure if its just in my head or its a real thing with me feeling that difference. 

Sounds like it could be more related to head weight like you are talking about with the MOI matching. As you mentioned swing weight is just a measure of the balance point of the club. You can have say a driver build at a total of 300 grams come in a D2 and a 340 gram driver build come in at D0, just depends how that weight is distributed. So you might like a lighter overall build with a higher swing weight or something like that. 

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s cool. It’s been an interesting journey to follow. I get the graphite thing. Even without any issues I like graphite shafts and they are what’s in main set right now and will probably be in most sets I get going forward, whether I buy the shafts separate and have will build them for me or if I order them thru the manufacturer.

Definitely going to be reading this thread for your updates 

Thanks for following along. And I know my gear changing shenanigans is not optimal, but its part of my personality and i enjoy the club building aspects just as much as actually playing the game. And it helps now that i have a small golf related business on the side, that i am not paying retail for the shafts that i am trying. 

58 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Sounds like it could be more related to head weight like you are talking about with the MOI matching. As you mentioned swing weight is just a measure of the balance point of the club. You can have say a driver build at a total of 300 grams come in a D2 and a 340 gram driver build come in at D0, just depends how that weight is distributed. So you might like a lighter overall build with a higher swing weight or something like that. 

Yeah, i think erroring on the lighter side from a total static weight perspective is better for me, and i am going specifically not look at the swingweight scale before testing the 9 iron plus lead tape as part of this MOI matching build. I, like many others, can fall prey to hearing things like "D1, D2" or whatever swingweight is "standard" and thinking that is what I need. So when I go into that 9 iron test, I will have no idea what the swingweight is, and i focus on optimizing to what is happening on the range, not the "standards" that are in my mind. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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Went to the range today, and actually used an 8 iron for the optimization session, because the calculator i have uses the 8 iron as the basis for MOI matching all other irons

 I went out for my optimization session and the results were interesting (in a good way)

 

Here was the setup:

- 8 iron with the LAGP AXS Red graphite shaft Stiff

- Double soft stepped

- Total playing length of club measured with out grip was just a little under 36.5". i use the Mitchell measurement tools, and it takes off about 1/8" to account for a "typical" grip cap

- In my sets in the past, I had played -0.5", but I wanted to start with standard length and choke down during the test if needed

- I don't measure the final playing length with grip, because i play the Jumbo max ultralite XS, and they have abnormally long grip caps

- I had rubber tungsten stick-on weights plus some masking tape to make sure they stayed in place

 

Results:

- Started out, strikes were pretty decent with no weights, but missing some right, some left. This is consistent with my normal misses

- Added one stick-on weight, club felt just slightly heavier during the swing, but in a good way, strikes got better, less left and right misses

- Added one additional stick-on weight. Started to feel heavier and that more effort was needed with my swing. Shots were better than with no weights, but felt I was having to give a bit too much effort during the swing. At one point, i had a streak of 4 balls where the balls were going left and right and with not as good of contact. I looked down at the club and the weights weren't there, they flew off. I think that fact helps proves this wasn't just placebo

- I was able to next split one of the weights approximately in half, and this is where i got my best results. Good strikes, good dispersion, appropriate amount of effort during the swing

 

Conclusion:

- Went home, pulled the head from the shaft, and weighed out the 8 iron plus the optimized weights. Total headweight of the 8 iron with the optimized weights was 276.3 grams. That means I added 3.3 grams of weights to the 8 iron

- i plan to play my 8 iron at standard length instead of -0.5" 

- i have tip weights that are 8 grams total, plan to cut those to get to the right weights. I may not be able to get precisely to the decimal point on the weights, but i believe for me, its better to error on the lighter side than heavier

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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My biggest takeaway so far from the above optimization session is that all sets I have played in the past were likely too heavy from both a swingweight perspective and a total static weight perspective. My 8 iron with the added weight is going to swingweight at around C9 or D0 at the most, and the shaft is 10 grams lighter than any shaft i have played in the past. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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Just a little bit about the overview of the MOI matching process. There are a lot of different approaches, some are more quick and dirty and some are more precise. I won't describe all possible approaches, just two

One quick and dirty approach which is not perfect is:

  1. Find the iron in your bag that is your favorite if it is already built. If it is not built yet, make an assumption on what you think your favorite club will be and build it, but don't add any tip weights. Capture the total weight of the club (or just the headweight is fine as well)
  2. Take that favorite club and do some testing to optimize it by adding lead tape until you optimize that club. Optimally using a launch monitor, but that is not always possible
  3. Weigh the optimized "favorite" club to capture the total weight or headweight
  4. Next, if you use the 3/8" between club playing lengths for irons instead of the traditional 1/2", then you can assume you are targeting a headweight that is 7 grams between clubs
  5. After that, you need to rebuild each club with a 3/8" difference between clubs and with the right headweighting with 7 grams between clubs
  6. It is possible that you can get into a scenario where the calculations lead to needed to remove weight from a clubhead. I personally would not want to remove headweight from an iron, so this can limit your ability to take the MOI matching approach

More precise method uses a MOI matching scale. This tool, combined with the software package that comes with it, will capture input parameters plus the actual MOI measurements of each club and output changes in weight required:

https://www.golfworks.com/auditor-moi-speed-match-system/p/gm1103/

 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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**** i don't want to make this into a debate on whether the purchase of the machine was worth it or not for my current build and future endeavors****

My MOI machine has arrived. Got it calibrated and started take some measurements of my optimized 8 iron, but haven't made it any further yet. 

 

IMG_2311.jpg.ee3f9be66ea59917c0370f1944ab0538.jpg

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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Interested to see how this progresses and what your thoughts are once you finish building the set and get some time with them under your belt.

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On 11/3/2021 at 6:47 PM, ChitownM2 said:

Interested to see how this progresses and what your thoughts are once you finish building the set and get some time with them under your belt.

Thanks. My build is almost complete, will be providing some more updates and observations soon.

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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Some eyecandy (pictures of the build). Also posted on my instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bortgolf/

7F0C4C9A-A638-4B7C-A825-FC45796C2A49.JPG.505b12f96fbd3f07ef528f89109a13c4.JPG

 

E5C55B8B-3A0F-4D44-913E-9CA68740547B.JPG.7c95cc1dccd081e941eb35ae4f3d7268.JPG

 

683879C8-792C-4F34-B379-C354CDAC6D9E.JPG.2c35d34ce1408daba7e50d84616f802a.JPG

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Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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Funny story. Took this set out for a spin today. Was hitting the "8" iron and ball was flying high but not very far. Was getting stressed out, ball was flying high but like 20 to 30 yards less than a normal 8 iron for me. Thought I ruined my set with this new build or something. Turned the club over wondering what's going on and looked at the head and it said "48" (titleist labels the gap wedge with the loft instead of "GW"). It all made sense, thought i was hitting an 8 iron but it was a 48 degree wedge.

Going back to talking about the set. So there are multiple variables at play here: new shafts, different lengths than I normally play, and the MOI matching aspect (lengths are related to this though). Because there are multiple variables at play, its hard to determine which one is causing the difference, or maybe its a combo of all of them. Anyway, was hitting some of my best iron shots I have ever hit out on the course. Ball was flying high, landing soft. Distance was probably a little further than i am used to, at least during the late fall season. The LAGP AXS red shafts had a pretty big kick when you make center contact, and I like iron shafts with a kick. They are Stiff shafts, but double soft stepped, so will play softer than Stiff. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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