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Tensei CK white 70g (non pro version) vs HZRDUS Smoke Black 70


Long John
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Good morning all,

My question is whether or not the HZRDUS smoke black is of better quality and material than the CK white given its higher price point? I don't mean the small batch versions i just mean the standard smoke 70g. If anyone has hit both i'd be grateful to hear your experience/comparison between the two. I know its probably best to get an aftermarket premium shaft but for me i'd just like to know which is better feeling and which performs better.

Edited by Long John
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Feel is a personal thing and will vary by user. In my experience the smoke black is going to feel boardy especially if you like the smoke green. The smoke green is a counterbalanced design whereas the smoke black isnt.

the m5 is a low spinning head and with the black the spin isn’t going to go up in general and compared to the m4 it’s going to be lower spin.

Theres no guarantee that an aftermarket premium shaft will perform better or not especially if you just choose to randomly buy one. Also the smoke green and black aren’t made for shafts and are premium quality, they are just made in large quantities and pretty much every brand carried them as a stock offering. Only the small batch tx shafts in the green and black are the non stock upgrade options.

Swing speed is a small piece of the puzzle, two different swings at the same swing speed will produce different results. Quick transition will have different launch characteristics than a smooth transition at the same swing speed. 
 

For the most part anyone here saying x shaft over y shaft or try z shaft is going to be guessing on what would work for another golfer.

Do you have any launch monitor numbers with your current setup?

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Hi Ricky Bobby, 

Thanks a lot for replying in great detail,  that's good to know that the smoke shafts are of premium quality, so yeah if I can trade this tensei for a smoke at no extra charge it seems as though i'd have a better quality shaft, albeit will need to try it first. 

Edited by Long John
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Shafts are so personal. I have a smoke green that I used in my old Cobra SZ and now have a Smoke Black 70 in the Callaway Epic Max LS and to me I actually have a bit more feel in the black, but that's just me. Both are great shafts from a quality standpoint its all about what works for you.

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:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° Project X HZRDUS Black HAND-CRAFTED Wood Shaft - Spargo Golf Smoke Black 70g 6.5 (2021 Official Review) | :taylormade-small: '07 Burner 15° Reax 50 Stiff 

:titelist-small: 816 H1 18° :Fuji: Speeder HB 8.8 Stiff | :titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Motors Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Chemical industry Mitsubishi  Rayon Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, mitsubishi, blue, company png |  PNGEgg Diamana S+ Blue 70 Stiff

:mizuno-small: JPX 919 HM Pro  5 - PW  :Fuji:  Pro Tour Spec 115i Stiff | :Hogan: Equalizer 52° / 56° KBS-logo - KZG Tour V 110 Stiff

:cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0 | :ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: - Pro V1x | Right Handed

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3 minutes ago, Long John said:

The guys at the store made it out like I got the premium Tensei and the smokes were inferior stock shafts whereas it appears to be the complete opposite! I agree that its impossible over a forum to identify what shafts would suit certain players so I was really looking to find out which were of higher quality so thanks a million for that, i can't justify the up charge price currently so just looking for the best of the rest sort of thing.

There’s a lot of misperceptions out there about shafts, quality and what’s premium. Let’s look at the ventus shafts for example as they are a popular aftermarket shaft that also have two made for versions with the TaylorMade version and your edge one. For the TaylorMade they didn’t use the 70T piece of graphite that is in the velocore version, everything else is the same material from what I’ve been told and all they did was change the orientation of the other pieces to get the torque higher. In most of the shafts the aftermarket shafts from a PX and other brands it could be as simple as 1 piece of graphite being of higher strength and/or the paint job. The paint that’s used in t1100 shaft is very expensive and the t1100 piece of graphite that’s used is premium price as well. 
 

The tensei ck white to my knowledge wasn’t a made for shaft. Just like the other ck non pro shafts were used in several brands that I recall and were more massed produced to be available as a no upcharge offering.  Another example is the rdx blue and black shafts from Px. They are no upcharge stock in some brands and upcharge in others. Same shaft goes to each company they just determine if it will be free or cost some sort of fee.

3 minutes ago, Long John said:

I'm going to book a trackman session tomorrow to get some actual numbers which will be the first time in a while! I'll do a head to head of my r9 and m5 too which could give us interesting data! 

Post your numbers after the session and a better educated guess can be made about potential shafts and/or potential for improvement 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Thanks guys really appreciate the advice!

On 11/2/2021 at 1:41 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

There’s a lot of misperceptions out there about shafts, quality and what’s premium. Let’s look at the ventus shafts for example as they are a popular aftermarket shaft that also have two made for versions with the TaylorMade version and your edge one. For the TaylorMade they didn’t use the 70T piece of graphite that is in the velocore version, everything else is the same material from what I’ve been told and all they did was change the orientation of the other pieces to get the torque higher. In most of the shafts the aftermarket shafts from a PX and other brands it could be as simple as 1 piece of graphite being of higher strength and/or the paint job. The paint that’s used in t1100 shaft is very expensive and the t1100 piece of graphite that’s used is premium price as well. 
 

The tensei ck white to my knowledge wasn’t a made for shaft. Just like the other ck non pro shafts were used in several brands that I recall and were more massed produced to be available as a no upcharge offering.  Another example is the rdx blue and black shafts from Px. They are no upcharge stock in some brands and upcharge in others. Same shaft goes to each company they just determine if it will be free or cost some sort of fee.

 

Edited by Long John
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25 minutes ago, Long John said:

Thanks guys really appreciate the advice!

Wow that's very interesting, so it isn't as black or white as prices would lead one to believe. I've only very recently started taking interest into shafts out of curiosity as a lifetime feel-based golfer and as you can probably tell the shaft scene is overwhelming for me! I'll post the trackman numbers when I get a chance which ought to give me a better idea as to what I really need. 

There is nothing in the golf world that is black and white especially in the shaft world.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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36 minutes ago, Long John said:

Thanks guys really appreciate the advice!

Wow that's very interesting, so it isn't as black or white as prices would lead one to believe. I've only very recently started taking interest into shafts out of curiosity as a lifetime feel-based golfer and as you can probably tell the shaft scene is overwhelming for me! I'll post the trackman numbers when I get a chance which ought to give me a better idea as to what I really need. 

Yeah and a lot people’s opinions and thoughts are based on myths. 
 
Years of being on golf forums and the two great opportunities I’ve had to meet with PX and UST Mamiya helped a lot. The Fujikura university stuff mgs did and the stuff px/try temper put out on YouTube and social media is real helpful too.

Tom wishon did a myth busting article on wrx several years back about shaft myths that’s pretty good read

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 11/2/2021 at 1:41 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Post your numbers after the session and a better educated guess can be made about potential shafts and/or potential for improvement 

Tried a few shafts including the smoke 70 and the results of both Tensei and Smoke were similar - too heavy for me. Tried to swing at normal course speed and evidently i'm swinging a lot slower than I used to a couple years ago. 

I ended up going for a 60 gram Accra Tour z X455 m5 which reduced both spin and dynamic loft, distance increased and that spin rate should be good for the links golf I play.

First 3 are tensei and last 4 are Accra:

tensei 3.jpg

tensei 1.jpg

tensei 2.jpg

Accra 1.jpg

accra 2.jpg

accra 3.jpg

accra 4.jpg

Edited by Long John
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You need to hit them both. There are no rules on shafts. A stiff shaft one brand could be a regular in another. The flex listed is for comparison of shafts for that brand only. If a fitter tells you all stiff 70g mid-kick are the same, which most uneducated hamburger flippers turned fitters will tell you, leave immediately and find a PGA certified fitter. Just like tires, a 600 wear rating in one brand cannot be compared to a 600 wear rating in another. The ratings only apply to comparisons of tires within that brand.

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Certified Club Fitter.

Ping G400 Max Driver 10.5° w/Diamona S+ LTD Blue-Board 70 R Flex

Ping G410 5 Fairway Wood Mitsubishi Tensi Orange R Flex

Ping G410 4-5-6 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi Blue R Flex

Ping i500 Irons 5-U w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex (power-spec lofts)

Ping 3.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex

2019 Bettinardi QB6 and 2021 Ping Fetch Putter (depends on the greens)

PING Pioneer Cart Bag

Lamkin Sonar+ Mid-Size Grips

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On 11/2/2021 at 7:11 AM, Long John said:

Good morning all,

My question is whether or not the HZRDUS smoke black is of better quality and material than the CK white given its higher price point? I don't mean the small batch versions i just mean the standard smoke 70g. If anyone has hit both i'd be grateful to hear your experience/comparison between the two. I know its probably best to get an aftermarket premium shaft but for me i'd just like to know which is better feeling and which performs better.

I am a Fitter/Dealer for both brands and have extensive experience fitting for and hitting both of those shafts (admittedly NOT in X-flex). You asked a question regarding quality and I can assure you that both shaft models are of very good quality and consistency. The non-pro Tensei shafts don’t use super-premium materials that are used in the Tensei Pro models, thus the somewhat lower price point.  However, the non-pro models are still very good shafts (they do have slightly higher torque ratings than the Tensei Pro versions).

As for the PX HZRDUS Smoke Black, I do find it to feel rather “boardy”, particularly in the stiffer flexes and heavier weights. It’s a great shaft for stronger golfers with quick tempos and great lag in their downswings, but I would not recommend it for smoother swingers.

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Driver: Ping G425 Max, 9*, Miyazaki  Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 6S, 44.75" playing length

4-Wood: Titleist TS2, 16.5*, Miyazaki Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 7S, 42.75" playing length

5/7-Wood: Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero set to 20* loft; Tensei Blue 75-S, 41.5" playing length

Hybrids: Exotics EXS Pro (22*), Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 75S

Irons: Exotics EXS220 5-iron and New Level MODB-1 (6-iron through PW), KBS TGI Tour 80 (stiff) shafts

Wedges: New Hogan Equalizer wedges (48* and 56* + Maltby TSW Forged 52-8, all bent 1* weak

Putter: Evnroll ER2, 34”with Gravity Grip

Ball: Snell MTBx

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