Should Fittings be Free?

[GolfSpy MPR 12,299]

Duration: 00:46:32

Special guest Ryan Barath (@RDSBarath) joins us for a head to head debate with MGS owner Adam Beach: Should fittings be free for all golfers?

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Listen Here

[jlukes 16,690]

Love MGS, but it’s foolish and irresponsible to make a blanket statement that all club fittings should be free 

I made it through less than half of the podcast before I had to shut it off. 
 

Kudos to Ryan for trying to explain his point thoughtfully. I wish I could say the same for the MGS side of things 

And a big eye roll to the Free Fitting T-shirt tweet sent out.  Not a good look 

[ChitownM2 755]

I see both sides of this argument. I agree with Adam that you should be able to go in and get a COMPETENT free fitting. That is something that is sorely lacking in the industry. When I go into a PGATSS or a Golf Galaxy and ask to hit a club, the guy helping me is usually clueless. He's just throwing me different options based on what I ask for or just trying random things without any real basis. On the other hand, I also think that if you want to go and get a TXG level fitting with hundreds of aftermarket shaft options then you are going to have to pay for that. The inventory needed to do elite level fitting costs a lot of money and essentially never ends as new equipment is always being released.  The return on investment just isn't going to be there based on selling clubs/equipment alone.  There needs to be some kind of happy medium where I can go and get a brand agnostic fitting from a competent fitter using the stock options that the manufacturer's supply in their fitting carts.  I'd also settle for paying up front for that and having the cost deducted from  the purchase price of whatever equipment I buy. 

 

TXG's business model is not based entirely on selling clubs, it's based on selling fittings so Adam's argument that they would make more money doesn't necessarily hold up. At some point, the quality of fitting I would get from TXG if they expanded in size to meet the demand of free fittings would be the same as what I get at PGATSS, which is crap. There just simply aren't enough elite club fitters to do what Adam is proposing and it will never be feasible to solve all of the "industry" problems Adam describes.  He's talking about a perfect world scenario where there are enough competent people to do these fittings and that club sales support the salaries of all these fitters.  It just doesn't work that way, last I checked there are tons of golf businesses that can't even afford to stay afloat giving away the crappy fittings from people who have no idea what they are doing much less hire a competent fitter for each of them. 

I'd like to know more about the retail scenario Adam described from his past where they were doing free fittings and saw a net increase in revenue.  In the short term, I can see exactly how it would work out like he said, but in the long term, I just can't see it working.  Once word gets around that you can go and get a free fitting from a real pro, I think they would get so overwhelmed it just wouldn't work.  

[DiscipleofPenick 4,174]

I think fittings should be free, or at least highly discounted (>50%) IF the person buys a club. If I'm dropping $500+ on a Driver, or $1200+ on irons, that should save me roughly whatever a fitting will cost. FWIW the one fitting I've done was discounted almost to nothing because I bought the recommended driver that day. There are good places out here that already do this.

[Shapotomous 5,309]

Some club and ball websites offer free fittings already.  Following the same thought process lessons should be free as well.

2ndSwing credits the fitting charge toward equipment already.

[Thin2win 3,893]

I haven't listened to this, so I'll only answer the question as you asked it. 

You get what you pay for. Club champion, true fit, txg, etc. Those are fittings and if you want one, I see no reason they shouldn't charge you. 

If you just want to go swing away at new clubs, go to the big box /local option that will let you do that for free. 

[THEZIPR23 6,492]

If fittings should be free why do I have to pay for truegolffit??

[jlukes 16,690]

2 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I haven't listened to this, so I'll only answer the question as you asked it. 

You get what you pay for. Club champion, true fit, txg, etc. Those are fittings and if you want one, I see no reason they shouldn't charge you. 

If you just want to go swing away at new clubs, go to the big box /local option that will let you do that for free. 

Not anymore. Golf Galaxy now charges you $100 for the “fitting” and you get the money rolled into the purchase cost if you buy from them. And they can only fit with whatever shafts they have in the OEM fitting carts

[ChitownM2 755]

20 hours ago, Thin2win said:

I haven't listened to this, so I'll only answer the question as you asked it. 

You get what you pay for. Club champion, true fit, txg, etc. Those are fittings and if you want one, I see no reason they shouldn't charge you. 

If you just want to go swing away at new clubs, go to the big box /local option that will let you do that for free. 

I think the point they are trying to make is that the cost of getting fit into the right club should be baked into the club purchase price itself.  Swinging away aimlessly at the big box stores for free doesn't benefit the golfer and leads to a lot of expensive club purchases that will never work for that person.  

The argument MGS (Adam) is making becomes a lot less relevant when you start looking at the fringes of skill level.  The number of single digit handicap golfers out there is pretty small compared to the 25 million golfers overall and for the vast majority of that 25 million, a free fitting would probably be very helpful.  It doesn't need to be an elite level fitting to make big improvements for the average player. Playing the wrong lengh/lie angle/just wrong style of club (blades) is probably holding back a very large number of mid to high handicap golfers so getting them fit into the right gear could help drop their scores dramatically.  For the remaining low handicap golfers, I can see how their swing/game is so dialed in that switching between various $3-400 aftermarket shafts helps them achieve exactly what they are looking for and in those cases, an elite level pro fitting is probably worth paying for.  

[ChitownM2 755]

2 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

If fittings should be free why do I have to pay for truegolffit??

Adam addressed that in the video.  It's going to be free next year and apparently will be expanding to cover irons and golf balls instead of just drivers.

[THEZIPR23 6,492]

Just now, ChitownM2 said:

Adam addressed that in the video.  It's going to be free next year and apparently will be expanding to cover irons and golf balls instead of just drivers.

Cool. Haven't listened yet but will be this evening. 

[ChitownM2 755]

9 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Not anymore. Golf Galaxy now charges you $100 for the “fitting” and you get the money rolled into the purchase cost if you buy from them. And they can only fit with whatever shafts they have in the OEM fitting carts

Is it actually different than before though?  Do they actually have competent people doing the $100 fitting or is it just the same guy who normally works the register on a Wednesday but is doing "fittings" today because it's the weekend and they are busy?  The PGATSS guys will "fit" you into a club, but in my experience they are worthless.  If you want a real fitting then you need to pay for their "tour van fitting" and even then I'm not sure how good those guys are.  I just assumed that they were actual club fitters opposed to "regular" store employees.

[RickyBobby_PR 10,079]

13 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:

Is it actually different than before though?  Do they actually have competent people doing the $100 fitting or is it just the same guy who normally works the register on a Wednesday but is doing "fittings" today because it's the weekend and they are busy?  The PGATSS guys will "fit" you into a club, but in my experience they are worthless.  If you want a real fitting then you need to pay for their "tour van fitting" and even then I'm not sure how good those guys are.  I just assumed that they were actual club fitters opposed to "regular" store employees.

The fitting I did at pgatss was the tour van fitting and the guy was a legit fitter unlike the guys working the fitting bays. Samething at 2ndswing and their tour fitting.

[TR1PTIK 3,585]

I see Adam's point in this, but it negates the realities of the world and how businesses operate and every time Ryan brought this up Adam would just say "hire more people", "open more stores". It doesn't work that way. I think it's something that businesses could experiment with and ultimately find a workable solution for, but I don't believe it's as easy as Adam makes it sound. It's one thing to play around with this idea at a retail store that does more than fit golf clubs, it's a different thing entirely for businesses like TXG which exist explicitly for the purpose of fitting; they aren't looking to increase foot traffic in hopes of making a sale. 

[amwolf90 37]

I am 100% on Ryan's side with this argument. I found it hard to listen to because of the way Adam was pushing his argument, basically not letting Ryan speak at points. 

 

Definitely not as easy as just offering free fittings for all. It may work in a big retail environment like he claims, but there is no way that they could offer the amount of options, or level of service that you would get for a TXG. 

 

Bit of a sour taste for MGS after listening to that podcast. 

[ChitownM2 755]

16 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I see Adam's point in this, but it negates the realities of the world and how businesses operate and every time Ryan brought this up Adam would just say "hire more people", "open more stores". It doesn't work that way. I think it's something that businesses could experiment with and ultimately find a workable solution for, but I don't believe it's as easy as Adam makes it sound. It's one thing to play around with this idea at a retail store that does more than fit golf clubs, it's a different thing entirely for businesses like TXG which exist explicitly for the purpose of fitting; they aren't looking to increase foot traffic in hopes of making a sale. 

Exactly this.  I don't have any insider knowledge, but my guess is that TXG breaks even or close to it if they sell every single fitting slot available at a location.  Any club sales on top of that are profit.  This is the complete opposite of what Adam is envisioning because his dream scenario essentially turns every golf retailer into a big box store where volume of sales pays for the services they provide.  It's essentially the Amazon philosophy but since golf equipment prices are basically fixed, they use the volume to fund perks like free fittings as opposed to offering lower prices (margins).  

[bens197 12,813]

We are a country that expects a deal or a discount on everything we buy.

"Where's my discount, my senior discount, my military discount, my coupon expired yesterday but I want to buy it today." Hard pass for me.

I paid for two fittings this summer and it was money well spent.  The shop space, launch monitor, inventory and most importantly, the PEOPLE spending their time and expertise with me was worth every penny.  If I choose to not purchase a club, the shop is still being reimbursed for THEIR time.  

 

 

[PMookie 17,554]

No, they shouldn’t, and we all donate to help MGS cover the costs of all the equipment needed for Most Wanted testing, so MGS KNOWS the cost of doing business to have enough clubs and shafts for everyone. Seems a little hypocritical.

A fitter spends $20,000 right away on a new Trackman, then thousands and thousands more on shafts and club heads. Add-in rent, taxes, incomes, utilities, insurance, etc and it’s a ridiculous amount of money, and it’s not a ONE-TIME expenditure. You gotta get each new shaft, head, etc. 
You pay for the knowledge and expertise of a fitter. 
 

I really think it all just might be clickbait, to be honest… Riles-up folks. Gets people yapping. Most Wanted sure isn’t FREE!!!

[ejgaudette 4,040]

I also think the price point of the custom work is an issue for places like TXG. If they fit you into a stock build how much do they make really, and the options to get spec from a free fitting then buy from the cheapest place, which many would do, makes that really not possible. On top of that Adam kept saying well the walk around buying balls, gloves, and such however a place like TXG doesn’t work that way they are not PGASS. I agree it turned into and argument that really only a big box retailer could make Adam’s model work. 

[cnosil 26,228]

I'll take Adam's position and tweak it a little.  For a top end fitting paying for a facility like TXG is probably fine.   For big box retailers,  if they had competent fitters that could educate people on what to look for in clubs and help them pick equipment it would probably benefit the store and the golfer.  It would benefit the store by building some loyalty from the golfer since they feel like they got some value in the fitting.   I look at many of the posts on this site where people are saying that they bought this club or that shaft and they think it is wrong.   Have them pay for the fitting and if they buy the shaft or clubs then the fitting is free.