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Should Fittings be Free?


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7 minutes ago, Rhinosparky said:

If that's the case then any equipment should have little effect and not require a fitting.  Why would new "fit" equipment suddenly help their game then?

I'm not saying that new equipment has very little effect. What I am saying is if you fit well into a certain profile shaft for example, and then you improve your swing, you most likely will still fit into that same profile shaft unless something drastically changed like you went from a slow tempo to fast tempo or your swing speed increased my 15 mph, etc. 

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On 11/2/2021 at 4:00 PM, Thin2win said:

I haven't listened to this, so I'll only answer the question as you asked it. 

You get what you pay for. Club champion, true fit, txg, etc. Those are fittings and if you want one, I see no reason they shouldn't charge you. 

If you just want to go swing away at new clubs, go to the big box /local option that will let you do that for free. 

The problem with these types of fittings is the experience of the fitters is all over the place. $500 for a fitting and you don’t know if the guy has been fitting for 30 days or 30 years.

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21 hours ago, Rhinosparky said:

What Adam and the rest of the "get fitted" crowd do not take into account is the fact that most new golfers have horrible swings or fundamental flaws in that swing.  It might be a quick back swing, to steep of a swing, etc, etc.  A fitting is not going to do that person any good if they actually play often and work on a good swing plane.  That's when they should get fit for new clubs. All the fitting in the world will not fix a bad swing and if the person gets a correct swing then they should get fit. 

Hell I'm a prime example as I was fitted last December after playing maybe two rounds the whole year before.  I know that were I to go and get fit today after 100 rounds this year my results would be completely different, and the specs would be night and day different. 

So to say fitting is this magical tool to help your game its not.

If Adam really wants to help the average golfer he would be pushing for people to go get lessons first and after the golfer has established a good swing that is repeatable then, and only then should they get a fitting.  But then he would have to push for free lessons because it would only help the game of golf right?  

Interesting article went up today on plugged in golf that talks about fitting vs lesson for new golfers.  Multiple things to think about when making that decision. 

https://pluggedingolf.com/do-new-golfers-need-fitted-golf-clubs/

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Really good article. Hit both sides of the argument for lessons and clubs

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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8 hours ago, cnosil said:

Interesting article went up today on plugged in golf that talks about fitting vs lesson for new golfers.  Multiple things to think about when making that decision. 

https://pluggedingolf.com/do-new-golfers-need-fitted-golf-clubs/

Great article!  I remember GolfSpy Matt.  Here was here when I joined, before he started Plugged In Golf.  

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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On 12/7/2021 at 8:00 AM, cnosil said:

Interesting article went up today on plugged in golf that talks about fitting vs lesson for new golfers.  Multiple things to think about when making that decision. 

https://pluggedingolf.com/do-new-golfers-need-fitted-golf-clubs/

Great article.  I think it tends to support the argument that new clubs are beneficial. I don't think it supports a full fitting.

I firmly believe that someone who just gets into golf does not benefit from a full bag fitting from a competent fitter.  I stand by my opinion that there swing will change so much in the first year that the specs will be different.

I know in my particular situation I got back into golf seriously for the first time in 15 years.  I played three to four rounds a year before that and now this year I played nearly 100 rounds.  I know my swing is completely different than what I did at my fitting.  Luckily my fitting cost was free because I bought the clubs through the fitter.  But i simply do not buy the argument that every new golfer should git fit.  

 

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Wow! Lots of passionate views on this topic. Looks like Adam knows how get people fired up!

Does anyone really know what he actually has in mind for a "free" fitting? 

Driver - Titleist TSi3 9.0  (HRZDUS Smoke 6.5)

3 wood - TaylorMade SIM2 MAX  15 (Ventus Blue 6S)

Hybrid - TaylorMade SIM MAX 19 (Ventus Blue 7S)

Irons - Mizuno JPX 921 Tour 4-PW (DG X100)

Wedges - Titleist Vokey SM9 50F (DG X100), 54D (DG S400) & 58M (DG S400)

Putter - Tour Edge Pure Feel (Road) 34"

Ball - Titleist Pro V1

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Here's the deal. When you go to a big box store, most fitters graduated from the McDonald's Burger U, and were hired for $10/hr, watched a few 5 min videos, and were told by the store manager to sell anything to anyone and lie to make the sale. Go to a real fitter, a pro, assistant pro, Club Champion...yes, you should pay because you will end up with the right clubs set to the correct specifications for you. Demo days are great to try clubs and ask the reps questions. But go to a real fitter, pay for the hour, and get it done right. Big box stores are fine to buy off the rack if that works for you.

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Fittings at places like Club Champion and TXG are luxury items or should be seen as such.  Just like a fine tailor or a luxury car and its service requirements/mechanics(insert your German car here).  If you can afford it and want to pay these experts for their equipment, time, expertise then you're welcome to do so.  You as golfer would seek out these places because of what their expertise is providing above other retailers.  

The model of waiving a fitting fee with purchase seems the most viable, for both consumer and retailer.  If the consumer buys from the retailer/fitter, then great.  If the consumer goes somewhere else then they should be reimbursed for their time.

I think fittings are the least of the issues...How did we go from irons costing $499-699 in 2010-2015 to now $1499 basically for similar tech(+ - a chunk on tungsten), maybe the fitting cost is imbedded into this price...But I digress....

 

 

 

 

 

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Driver:  Taylormade SIM2 10.5 OG Motore F3 70x with TP 1.5*  tip - 1 notch to lower

3W: Srixon ZX 15*, HZRDUS Smoke Black HandCrafted 6.0 

5W: Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 18* TC serial, HZRDUS Yellow  70g

4i: Srixon ZU85 23*, Recoil F4 95S

5i: Srixon ZU85 26*, Recoil F4 95X

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Wedges: Vokey SM8 Blk 50-08F, SM8 56-08M (55*), Vokey SM8 WedgeWorks 60 T (61*)

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Bag:  Titleist Players 4 Stadry

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To me, it boils down to the fact that they're club fitters--that's what they do. They expect to be paid.

When you bought your clubs from your club pro

at his own pro shop

on your own golf course,

the fitting process in those pre-digital times was free. 

The clubs were sold at ONE price--MSRP--and your professional just took the markup.

I miss those days, but they're gone and we live in the present world.

 

 

 

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On 11/2/2021 at 12:58 PM, Shapotomous said:

Some club and ball websites offer free fittings already.  Following the same thought process lessons should be free as well.

2ndSwing credits the fitting charge toward equipment already.

It is impossible to do a good clubfitting from a website. There isn't enough information collected to do a good job fitting the shaft(s), head(s), grip(s), length(s), shaft bend point(s), shaft torque, etc.  Posture, body proportions, swing style, and a lot other factos vary too much from golfer to golfer. As an example, my waist is significantly higher than on most guys my height. That raises my hands farther fromn the ground. A wrist to floor measurement doesn't take that into consideration, but it would be apparent after a SKILLFUL fitter watched me swing.

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Callaway 816 Alpha DBD driver, 3 wood, 5 wood, Alpha 815 3 hybrid, RAZR X Forged cavity back irons 3-AW, 54-14 MD4 wedge, Maltby MS+ wide grind 60 degree lob wedge, 37 inch Rife Swithback Two putter. All clubs overlength - 47 inch driver, 45 inch 3wood, 44 inch 5 wood, 41 inch 3 hybrid, 39.5 inch 5 iron with other irons in line with that. All clubs graphite shafted and X-flex except flex of putter.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know this is an old thread and I am jumping in late. but, I am not sure I agree fitting should be free. Now, what I am not really a fan of is the way places like TXG, Club Champion etc gouge on their builds. The charge you full boat for the irons. Then if you got something that the manufacturer offers as a standard no up charge option, you are still paying full retail price for that as well. So an iron set that would cost you 1500 is now 2k because they are basically ala carte components. Sure, it makes for huge profit margins for them. But it is kind of a dirty way of doing it. 

 

But, for the person that has to have the knowledge and ability to work with lots of different swings and say that service should be free? I dunno. That is like saying you should not be charged for labor for getting your oil changed. 

I will add, that I do fittings. I do not charge for those. It sometimes irks me though because there are many times I feel taken advantage of. They come in, spend an hour plus on a fitting. take up space in a bay, etc etc. Then leave and go order online or through a pro shop etc. 

Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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2 hours ago, Quigleyd said:

I know this is an old thread and I am jumping in late. but, I am not sure I agree fitting should be free. Now, what I am not really a fan of is the way places like TXG, Club Champion etc gouge on their builds. The charge you full boat for the irons. Then if you got something that the manufacturer offers as a standard no up charge option, you are still paying full retail price for that as well. So an iron set that would cost you 1500 is now 2k because they are basically ala carte components. Sure, it makes for huge profit margins for them. But it is kind of a dirty way of doing it. 

 

But, for the person that has to have the knowledge and ability to work with lots of different swings and say that service should be free? I dunno. That is like saying you should not be charged for labor for getting your oil changed. 

I will add, that I do fittings. I do not charge for those. It sometimes irks me though because there are many times I feel taken advantage of. They come in, spend an hour plus on a fitting. take up space in a bay, etc etc. Then leave and go order online or through a pro shop etc. 

TXG started to do something worse on their builds, regarding pricing. Already knew about paying the full retail price on the clubs and then full price on the shafts separately. They heavily mark-up the shafts as well, at least for irons. Nippon 950gh, which are one of the cheaper iron shafts out there, are $85 USD per club from TXG! Those are $25 shafts at full retail from Golf Works. 

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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23 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

TXG started to do something worse on their builds, regarding pricing. Already knew about paying the full retail price on the clubs and then full price on the shafts separately. They heavily mark-up the shafts as well, at least for irons. Nippon 950gh, which are one of the cheaper iron shafts out there, are $85 USD per club from TXG! Those are $25 shafts at full retail from Golf Works. 

People have shown that they will pay for it a la the club champion model. The big thing you hope for is a better fitter and no issues with the build quality. 

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:titelist-small: 818 H1 19deg Hybrid Fuji Atmos White

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1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

TXG started to do something worse on their builds, regarding pricing. Already knew about paying the full retail price on the clubs and then full price on the shafts separately. They heavily mark-up the shafts as well, at least for irons. Nippon 950gh, which are one of the cheaper iron shafts out there, are $85 USD per club from TXG! Those are $25 shafts at full retail from Golf Works. 

Is that a recent supply issue thing? Still dirty but I would kind of understand a supply issue pricing model. The cost of replacement kinda deal.

Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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2 hours ago, Quigleyd said:

Is that a recent supply issue thing? Still dirty but I would kind of understand a supply issue pricing model. The cost of replacement kinda deal.

I'm not sure if its recent, but all shafts are much higher at TXG than I think than even Club Champion would charge. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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15 hours ago, Quigleyd said:

I know this is an old thread and I am jumping in late. but, I am not sure I agree fitting should be free. Now, what I am not really a fan of is the way places like TXG, Club Champion etc gouge on their builds. The charge you full boat for the irons. Then if you got something that the manufacturer offers as a standard no up charge option, you are still paying full retail price for that as well. So an iron set that would cost you 1500 is now 2k because they are basically ala carte components. Sure, it makes for huge profit margins for them. But it is kind of a dirty way of doing it. 

 

But, for the person that has to have the knowledge and ability to work with lots of different swings and say that service should be free? I dunno. That is like saying you should not be charged for labor for getting your oil changed. 

I will add, that I do fittings. I do not charge for those. It sometimes irks me though because there are many times I feel taken advantage of. They come in, spend an hour plus on a fitting. take up space in a bay, etc etc. Then leave and go order online or through a pro shop etc. 

the price of clubs from an independent builder are always going to be higher. 
 

A set of Srixon zx5 as an example is going to cost $1775 for 4-p from will peoples even with a modus 120 shaft that is no upcharge if ordering directly from Srixon and the standard size mcc grip which is also stock grip from srixon. If i ordered that set directly from srixon it’s under $1150 before taxes and shipping and if I ordered thru my shop I’m not paying the shipping and as a loyal customer I’m going to get a small discount from the shop

It surprises me that people are still shocked that it’s expensive to have irons clubs built by places like CC or TXG and that they ignore all of the expenses a business like that has and that they charge more for products to help cover their operating expenses including paying the people who work for them along with all the associated taxes for having employees.

If you order an upcharge shaft via a manufacturer you don’t get the stock shaft in the club and you get charged the upcharge fee on top of the standard price. Why are people shocked that they don’t get free stock shaft/shafts along with the upgraded one they buy from CC and that like any other club builder CC charges fees to build their clubs.

Theres a lot of golfers living in fantasy land

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just throwing this out there for consideration.  When shopping for custom build clubs, check out Fairway Jockey (now owned by TrueSpec).  As detailed in my "sticker shock" thread (irons sub forum), the prices quoted by TS following my fitting were really high.  

Fairway Jockey was suggested by a friend and they built my ZX5's for a savings of $445 (including the new customer 10% discount). Workmanship is top notch, and their website/build your custom clubs system easy to use and with tons of options.  I suspect that is why they are now part of TrueSpec.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just checking in here since there hasn't been any more news on this front. I noticed that, in 2022, fittings offered by MGS are still not free. Anybody got insider knowledge on this one? Is it a matter of just not prioritizing it to remove the cost? It's one of the main ads I see on the blog and it's still the most recent NPG episode, sooooo...

 

 

 

(yes, I know it's been busy. holidays. product launches. whatevs. But there was a stake driven in the ground and now it's bupkis)

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 9.5* with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 54* :cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Modus3 Tour 115
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Premier 11s, :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago

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