time to get strong and fast again

[Chip Strokes]

i’ll be lucky to get a few more rounds in this year. it’s effectively the off-season, which means it’s time for non golf pursuits. 

when i started playing last year, i was in the best shape of my life. i've definitely been stronger at times, and leaner at others, but last summer i was the overall fittest i’ve ever been and because of that i’ve had well above average speed since day one

well, since then life has definitely gotten in the way. my son was born last september, we sold our house and moved, and i’ve taken on a bunch of added responsibilities at work. this is all to say, it’s been well over a year since i’ve done anything close to what i’d consider training. 

i’m slower than i was last year. i’d attribute that to a loss of explosive strength and mobility. last year i had 135+ on tap. now i’m lucky to hit 130 and mostly cruise at 122-125. poor me, i know you’re all shedding a tear for me. 

well, it’s time to right the ship. time to get back to training. ive got about 25lbs to lose to get back to my fighting weight and a lot of explosive power to regain. 

my goals are lofty: by the time i tee it up next season i’d like to be back at 195lbs and seeing 145mph on my coach’s trackman.  last year i set a goal of getting from “brand new golfer” to a 10 hcp in one season and got myself down to an 11.9, so i’m not scared of taking on big tasks  

this won’t be a thread to track my progress. i don’t have the time or attention span to get in here with training plans and regular updates. 

i’ll pop in time to time when i remember and when i start to see the needles move. i’ll also answer any questions anyone has for me. 

i hope everyone has a great offseason and you get out there chasing lofty goals of your own. 

[Kenny B]

[Chip Strokes]

11 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

[AndySP]

I’m beyond jealous of your numbers. I think they are unreachable for me, but I totally dig the grind to get faster and stronger. I am also hoping to gain a few mph’s this winter. 

Do you periodize your exercises or are you training power and strength at the same time? I’m also wondering if you are adding in any over speed training as part of your plan. 

[Chip Strokes]

16 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I’m beyond jealous of your numbers. I think they are unreachable for me, but I totally dig the grind to get faster and stronger. I am also hoping to gain a few mph’s this winter. 

Do you periodize your exercises or are you training power and strength at the same time? I’m also wondering if you are adding in any over speed training as part of your plan. 

don’t be jealous. speed is great but it brings its own set of issues to the table. my misses are much bigger and controlling loft and spin is really hard. 

i don’t periodize. power, strength, endurance, it all gets rolled in together. i focus mostly on explosive compound movements, and have never been a fan of training body parts in isolation (with the exception of bicep curls bc they’re awesome). i believe if you want to become a better athlete you need to train yourself to move athletically. 

i might try the super speed program later on in the winter, but my plan is to just swing my driver as hard as i possibly can 20-30 times a few times a week. i’m gonna let being strong and flexible take care of increasing speed. 

[AndySP]

8 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

don’t be jealous. speed is great but it brings its own set of issues to the table. my misses are much bigger and controlling loft and spin is really hard. 

i don’t periodize. power, strength, endurance, it all gets rolled in together. i focus mostly on explosive compound movements, and have never been a fan of training body parts in isolation (with the exception of bicep curls bc they’re awesome). i believe if you want to become a better athlete you need to train yourself to move athletically. 

i might try the super speed program later on in the winter, but my plan is to just swing my driver as hard as i possibly can 20-30 times a few times a week. i’m gonna let being strong and flexible take care of increasing speed. 

Thanks for this. I think I have ok speed for my size, but I only have 120lbs to throw around on a heavy day. I think it’s one of those things where you always desire what you don’t have. Fast guy wants straighter, and fairway guy wants length.

I rolled some golf specific training into my normal workout, which was very upper body specific and geared to my other hobby. Sounds like I should start getting the lower body involved this winter, haha. Any favorites?

I would think you could benefit from over speed training, i certainly have. I think the Stack program is the most well researched and worth looking into, but I don’t swing a club 135, lol. 

[Chip Strokes]

6 minutes ago, AndySP said:

Any favorites?

squat and deadlift.  that's the beginning and the end of the list.

once you hit a certain strength threshold, adding in accessory movements to support the joints involved can help, but 99% of people never get strong enough for that to matter and waste their time doing "fluff" exercises that don't actually do much.

[GolfSpy BOS]

9 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

i don’t periodize. power, strength, endurance, it all gets rolled in together. i focus mostly on explosive compound movements, and have never been a fan of training body parts in isolation (with the exception of bicep curls bc they’re awesome). i believe if you want to become a better athlete you need to train yourself to move athletically. 

ahhh... so you're all about those glamour muscles huh?  Ladies love the pipes! haha  Don't let them get too big though, that's a lot of extra mass to move in the swing.  Might create some aerodynamic drag! 

good luck with the training this off-season man, I'm sure you'll be putting up some eye popping numbers next Spring.  

 

...just don't skip leg day.

[ejgaudette]

7 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

..just don't skip leg day.

That's right never skip leg day, just skip the lifting all together instead 

[Chip Strokes]

2 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

ahhh... so you're all about those glamour muscles huh?

haha i mean the whole reason anyone gets into working out is vanity.  they can tell you 100 other reasons, but everyone's goal is just to look better naked.

[GolfSpy BOS]

13 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

That's right never skip leg day, just skip the lifting all together instead 

But with little kids you’re always lifting things up and putting them down. So in a way you can’t skip lifting. Your weights just wiggle around and talk back at you. 

[ejgaudette]

Just now, B.Boston said:

But with little kids you’re always lifting things up and putting them down. So in a way you can’t skip lifting. Your weights just wiggle around and talk back at you. 

Something like that. The oldest is getting heavy enough work some good work coming in at 40 lbs

[GolfSpy BOS]

2 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Something like that. The oldest is getting heavy enough work some good work coming in at 40 lbs

I've got a good kit going now... about 25, 45, and 65 pounds each.  

[edingc]

Definitely interested in following along. 

Curious how tall you are? Always trying to get a feel for potential. I'm a long ways from your lifting totals, I'm sure, but I'm realistically 3-4 MPH away from breaking into the 120s on my best swings. I think I've pretty much exhausted the gains to be had on overspeed training after 3+ years of training, but I'm still relatively weak even after committing to a 5/3/1 setup last winter. Especially in bench and squat, which both have a lot of practical application to the golf swing.

I started a 5x5 linear progression program a few weeks back and this time around I am eating enough to make some gains over the winter. Just hoping to come into next season not quite as fluffy as Bryson was.

[Chip Strokes]

3 minutes ago, edingc said:

Curious how tall you are?

i'm 5'9" (or 5'10" if you go by my driver's license)

120 is movin it! you've made a ton of progress in your game and your swing.  it's really impressive.

i'm sure your lifting numbers are above average.  where did your bench, squat and deadlift end up after 5/3/1?

[edingc]

3 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

i'm 5'9" (or 5'10" if you go by my driver's license)

120 is movin it! you've made a ton of progress in your game and your swing.  it's really impressive.

i'm sure your lifting numbers are above average.  where did your bench, squat and deadlift end up after 5/3/1?

Yeah, your speeds are even more impressive at that height. Very Rory like! I'm at 5'11" with slightly longer than average arms (usually about +2" on a dress shirt), so that helps a little bit with speed. Currently sitting at 180 pounds.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but bench was ~145, squat ~215 and deadlift ~265 for reps. My goal this offseason was to max out my available plates (305lbs) on the deadlift and then move back 70 pounds for squat to 235 and bench to 165.

I have a balky right knee from being overweight as a kid and made worse by a baseball injury in high school. I have the leg strength to push myself on squats, but it's usually a matter of needing to trust that my knee isn't going to give on me.

[Chip Strokes]

1 minute ago, edingc said:

I have a balky right knee from being overweight as a kid and made worse by a baseball injury in high school. I have the leg strength to push myself on squats, but it's usually a matter of needing to trust that my knee isn't going to give on me.

as long as you're moving correctly,  squatting will help protect your weak knee.  strengthening the muscles that surround the joint, along with increasing your knee's natural range of motion will wipe out any knee pain you experience.

[sub80]

Chip Strokes--you have all the right ideas.  You only need specialty programs once you have maxed your base as an athlete--generally that might look like 2x body weight for DL, 1.75 BW for squat, 1.25-1.5 BW for bench.

When you can do that--maybe some special/sport specific exercises.  But, if you get to those numbers--your speed will improve dramatically.  If you have never been on a true structured progressive overload program, which you probably haven't been unless you played a D1 college sport --and depending on era maybe not then (I had never been on one), your gains can be fantastic (commonly referred to as Novice gains) in a relatively short period.  Usually 6-9 weeks and you will have maxed your strength more than all but a very few sports might require--you will be more than "strong enough".  Well, what's the catch?  It's boring and brutal, though not particularly time consuming--and you have to focus on gaining strength and recovery--not a bunch of other things--like cardio, or body building (you will likely gain fat--cannot be helped to max muscle gain).  Try Wendlers 5-3-1, Rippetoes Starting Strength and many more.  The key for all of them is that you add small amounts of weight to the bar EVERY TIME you work out.  Focus on the big lifts, Squat, Dead, Bench, overhead, pull-ups.  The muscle you gain will also stay with you, and can easily be "re-upped" after a lay-off.  Example--squat 3 times per week, add 10 pounds to the bar each time (start small) for 6 weeks.  That is 18 workouts--180 pounds of gain (results vary, but if you can't add 10, add 5, and your horizon may may be 9 weeks, not 6.  Only works for young studs?  No.  I did an experiment of one--me.  I was coaching a high school sports team at the time, and heard about these great gains kids were getting at another school.  So I did Rippetoes program.  Age 55.  Squat went from 225 (which I thought was something) to 330.  Deadlift--250-430.  Bench--205-250 (I have junky shoulders).  I was significantly stronger.  My horizon was 6 weeks--I really struggled to add anything more to the bar--could have, but the investment was not worth the incremental results after 6 weeks.   10 years later--I can work back to very close to the same numbers--in about 4 weeks.  And I maintain a much higher level strength in general.  I think focusing on this one thing for a short period--say now until Christmas--and you are going to be eating a lot anyway, which helps--is well worth the effort.  If you have already maxed strength--or taken it to the more than reasonable for golf stage--add some power routines.  Not power lifting--but strength speed--ball slams/throws, olympic lifts/jumps.  And then body composition (Looking good naked!) and some cardio which has almost no correlation for golf but is good for you.  If you run the programs suggested to max muscle gain, begin to strip the fat post January 1--join the crowd, and work power stuff and met con workouts with some hypertrophy sets--reps in the 6-12 range for the most weight can handle for that number of lifts.  Irish Mike on "Fit for Golf" has fantastic programs and engagement for an extremely reasonable price.  I frankly don't understand how he can provide all that he does for the price he charges.

But if you haven't ever done it--running to grab those "Novice gains" done the right way with intention can be a huge game changer in a relatively short amount of time.

As Mark Rippetoe says "Strong People are Harder to Kill, and More Useful in General".  Have fun with it--break new horizons!  But...don't be surprised by the results you don't get from the work you don't do.

[Chip Strokes]

57 minutes ago, sub80 said:

Chip Strokes--you have all the right ideas.  You only need specialty programs once you have maxed your base as an athlete--generally that might look like 2x body weight for DL, 1.75 BW for squat, 1.25-1.5 BW for bench

thank you for all your input. i’ve been doing this a very long time, so i’m well past any newbie gains. 

at 195 i deadlifted 625 and squatted 545. i was also a nationally ranked oly lifter so i know a few things about explosive power.

5/3/1 and starting strength are excellent resources and i’ve used them both in the past. it’s never too late to go back to fundamentals. 

[ncwoz]

8 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

thank you for all your input. i’ve been doing this a very long time, so i’m well past any newbie gains. 

at 195 i deadlifted 625 and squatted 545. i was also a nationally ranked oly lifter so i know a few things about explosive power.

5/3/1 and starting strength are excellent resources and i’ve used them both in the past. it’s never too late to go back to fundamentals. 

From other threads I knew your lifting experience was pretty extensive, but man those are some crazy good numbers, especially at 195!

@edingcand I were talking about how loading up the big 3 and making sure to take them through their full range of motion is surprisingly helpful for mobility (as opposed to the "muscle bound" stiff stigma I've heard specifically in the golf world), but I'm curious what your plans are to improve your mobility? I'm getting back under the bar more consistently myself and have noticed some helpful flexibility improvements, but I still have a few tight areas that could use some freeing up.

[Chip Strokes]

1 hour ago, ncwoz said:

From other threads I knew your lifting experience was pretty extensive, but man those are some crazy good numbers, especially at 195!

@edingcand I were talking about how loading up the big 3 and making sure to take them through their full range of motion is surprisingly helpful for mobility (as opposed to the "muscle bound" stiff stigma I've heard specifically in the golf world), but I'm curious what your plans are to improve your mobility? I'm getting back under the bar more consistently myself and have noticed some helpful flexibility improvements, but I still have a few tight areas that could use some freeing up.

haha thank u. it’s something i put a lot of years and a lot of effort into.

yeah that’s a pretty big misconception when it comes to lifting. you can greatly improve your mobility by moving under heavy loads. 

here’s a link explaining the difference between flexibility and mobility. people get them conflated all the time. mobility is more useful, and what we should be chasing as golfers. 

https://gmb.io/mobility-vs-flexibility/

i’ve always offset my lifting with a lot of yoga and focused mobility work. but mostly it’s the lifting itself and putting my body through full ranges of motion for your hips, knees, and shoulders that keeps me nice and mobile. if i had to recommend one area to work on to get the most bang for your buck, i’d say T-Spine mobility is where people should focus 

https://mikereinold.com/simple-thoracic-spine-mobility-exercises-everyone-can-perform/

[MaxEntropy]

22 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

but everyone's goal is just to look better naked

I'm old enough and have been married long enough that I have given up on looking better naked. The sole reason I do any sort of workout is to benefit my golf game.  

[Kenny B]

14 minutes ago, MaxEntropy said:

I'm old enough and have been married long enough that I have given up on looking better naked. The sole reason I do any sort of workout is to benefit my golf game.  

THIS ^^^^^^

 

[tommc23]

23 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

squat and deadlift.  that's the beginning and the end of the list.

once you hit a certain strength threshold, adding in accessory movements to support the joints involved can help, but 99% of people never get strong enough for that to matter and waste their time doing "fluff" exercises that don't actually do much.

I knew I liked you squat and deadlift are the only things on the list you sound like a power lifter lol

23 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

haha i mean the whole reason anyone gets into working out is vanity.  they can tell you 100 other reasons, but everyone's goal is just to look better naked.

Nah I worked out to get stronger and that was it. Strongmen and powerlifters don’t always care about that we honestly just care about numbers lol

22 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

as long as you're moving correctly,  squatting will help protect your weak knee.  strengthening the muscles that surround the joint, along with increasing your knee's natural range of motion will wipe out any knee pain you experience.

Truth I actually hurt less when I get to work out than when I don’t, and I have no meniscus left in one knee.

[Chip Strokes]

15 minutes ago, tommc23 said:

I knew I liked you squat and deadlift are the only things on the list you sound like a power lifter lol

i’m not.  squatting and deadlifting are just crucial to anyone who wants any sort of strength base or who wants to be even decently athletic.  i also train gymnastics, but i’m not a gymnast, daily yoga but i’m not a yogi.  i train to be an athlete, so i try to hit on everything across all all disciplines

[Chip Strokes]

37 minutes ago, tommc23 said:

Nah I worked out to get stronger and that was it. Strongmen and powerlifters don’t always care about that we honestly just care about numbers lol

say what you want but every man in the world lifts weights to be more attractive to women (or men).

i know a lot of power lifters. they all show up on their accessory days to do abs and bicep curls. 

what kind of strongman training did you do? stones? logs? 

[GolfSpy AFG]

On 11/2/2021 at 7:06 PM, Chip Strokes said:

 

this won’t be a thread to track my progress. i don’t have the time or attention span to get in here with training plans and regular updates. 

 

Hmmm, I feel like this kind of thread has been done before.  

And are you saying regular workout-log-like posts aren't riveting content?  How dare you sir!

Looking forward to following this one too.  I'll be updating my own thread with some workout plans, but similar approach...heavy compound movements, lots of explosion and power training.

Remember, "Everybody want to be a bodybuilder, but don't nobody want to lift no heavy-ass weight."  - Ronnie Coleman    (You'll have to imagine the juice-induced high-pitched voice...)

[tommc23]

7 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

say what you want but every man in the world lifts weights to be more attractive to women (or men).

i know a lot of power lifters. they all show up on their accessory days to do abs and bicep curls. 

what kind of strongman training did you do? stones? logs? 

Yea I never met a power lifter who did curls at least those who went to nationals or worlds. Abs yes but that is because you need a strong core to support yourself and keep things tight so you don’t pull anything. I loved doing logs and stones I was not as good at but I was very good at Yolk walks and farmers walk, strong grip. I honestly care more of what I look like now than I did when I competed. I also did more bicep work doing strongman than I ever did powerlifting only because logs and stones can put a strain on them a lot. I became friends with guys who were competing at my weight class 275-305 we were just there to get stronger and the 305+ they were beasts who were squatting over 1000 lbs most of them had big ol guts on them. 

[sub80]

Holy Crap Chip Strokes--that is really serious lifting!  Those numbers are stellar at 195--and Olympic lifting too?  As my Grandmother used to say "well shut my mouth!"  I never thought I would those numbers in a golf forum.  I work with Marty Gallagher--so I am familiar with them and know what they mean-very impressive.

[sub80]

And--I know or know of a ton of power lifters at high levels who certainly did curls etc.  And also wanted to look good naked.  Of course, their vision of looking good naked might vary from yours, mine or the rest of the population!