Anyone playing a 6 degree gap between pitching wedge and gap wedge?

[GregGarner]

On 11/17/2021 at 12:22 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

I’ve noticed that some strong lofted sets come with a 6 degree gap between wedges. Obviously, if this caused problems, you could adjust the lofts. But I was wondering if folks who have a set up like this find the gap to be too large. I have seen some write that the designers know what they’re doing and the gapping should be just fine, but the cynic in me suspects the big gap is a compromise. 

I've got a 46 degree PW (~125 yards), a 52 degree GW (~100 yards) and a 58 degree lob (no SW) and I can make due with this setup and had other fish to fry last season (top-end gapping was a nightmare) but as soon as I can scratch together a couple hundred bucks, I'm switching to a 3-wedge setup (50, 55, 60).

I don't ever swing the 58 full and I try not to hit full with the 52. Way too easy to rip the ball back too hard when I do, like when I had 107 to the hole, just slightly down hill, and I juiced the 52, catching it as flush as could be. The ball landed 2 inches long of the hole and ripped off the front of the green, leaving me a fun 30-footer. I've found over the last year I'm 100-115 out WAY more than I would have guessed. And while I'm getting pretty good as knocking down my PW, it's not ideal when a 50-degree could help fill the... gap? left by the current gap wedge.

[BIG STU]

On 1/9/2022 at 10:59 AM, Jweck21 said:

If you have smaller gaps between your driver, 3w, 5w, 3i/h, and 4i/h than you do your wedges you're just wrong. Tight gapping in your irons and wedges allows for more precision with distance control where you need it. 4° gaps is the way to go. The only gap where I would consider 6° is between my SW and my LW and that's because my LW is strictly used around the greens, it is never used as an approach club. 

Actually that is not necessarly so---- Depends on the player- Most of us old school players learned to deloft a club by using a little forward press or manulipulating the face open or closed . On wedges a lot has to do with the effective bounce. Remember when us old school guys learned the game all the different lofts and sole grinds were not available. We basically had a PW like 49* or 50* and a sand wedge of 55* 56* that was all we had basically. The lofts versus the numbers on the clubs have changed too. My more modern set I am playing now my PW is basically the same loft as my blade 9 iron and what is funny is the "GW" I am messing with now is actually a stock loft for its day Ping Eye2 PW at 50*. But with the sole design of this wedge I can hit a variety of shots with it. Ping Eye wedges you have to pay attention to the sole grind because they vary according to the year made and the offset. The top side as far as modern thinking can be a little off loft wise. The 5 iron is 24.5 which is stock then my 7 wood is 21*. My 3 wood is 14*. I can manulipulate them to make up most of what I need. With me carrying like 12 clubs as SOP it leaves me some wriggle room so to speak to insert clubs on either end. I have been known to insert some crazy stuff in the bag like a persimmon driver at 11* for some dogleg Par 4s where I can not quite hit the 3 wood far enough anymore and the modern driver is too much. I have also been known to insert a 1 iron in yes I can still hit one but then again I can hit a bullett stinger off a fairway lie with the 3 wood. Basically despite loft numbers I know what I can manulipulate a individual club to do. 

[GPS111]

Mine are even more extreme at 44* PW, 54* GW/SW, and 60* LW.  I had a 56* SW but change it to the 54* because I wanted less bounce (change fro 12* to 10*).  It works from almost all bunkers plus fits a gap in my game from a tight lie where the 12* bounce doesn't work.  Her there is a 10* gap and a 6* gap but if the shots are there how many more wedges do I need?  I do have a SW with a lot of bounce I can add for those courses that have that kind of sand.  My set only has 12 clubs so adding when needed does not mean sacrifice something else.

[DrRob1963]

I am currently playing 4 wedges in my bag. Starting with my Mizuno MP-68 set Pitching wedge 47*, plus Mizuno T7 52* loft/9* bounce, T7 58*/8* and MP R-12 64*/5* wedges. On a shorter course, sometimes I will swap out a fairway wood, or long iron, plus the T7 58*, for my Mizuno T7 56*/14* and T7 60*/6* wedges so there are less yardage gaps, but generally I am happy with the 6* gaps which give me about 15-16 yard gaps on a full swing. I've learnt to play 'in-betweener' wedge shots with firm 3/4 swings while gripping down the shaft about 1", so the gaps are manageable. Having four wedges with such varied lofts & bounces gives me plenty of options and versatility around the greens - the 64* lob lets me go at some crazy shots, and that's a lot of fun!

P.S. A 43* wedge, Berg Ryman? That's my 9-iron!

Edited January 13, 2022 by DrRob1963
clarify my postscript

[Deacon Blues]

I actually prefer 6-degree gaps: I carry a 40-degree 9-iron, followed by 46-, 52-, and 58-degree wedges.

I have an “analysis paralysis” tendency, and the larger gaps (and fewer clubs: I only have 12 in my bag) make club selection much easier. And practicing with larger gaps strengthens my touch and feel when I’m between clubs. Partial shots are a fact of life the closer you get to the green; might as well be prepared for it!

[cnosil]

4 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Actually that is not necessarly so---- Depends on the player- Most of us old school players learned to deloft a club by using a little forward press or manulipulating the face open or closed . On wedges a lot has to do with the effective bounce. Remember when us old school guys learned the game all the different lofts and sole grinds were not available. We basically had a PW like 49* or 50* and a sand wedge of 55* 56* that was all we had basically. The lofts versus the numbers on the clubs have changed too. My more modern set I am playing now my PW is basically the same loft as my blade 9 iron and what is funny is the "GW" I am messing with now is actually a stock loft for its day Ping Eye2 PW at 50*. But with the sole design of this wedge I can hit a variety of shots with it. Ping Eye wedges you have to pay attention to the sole grind because they vary according to the year made and the offset. The top side as far as modern thinking can be a little off loft wise. The 5 iron is 24.5 which is stock then my 7 wood is 21*. My 3 wood is 14*. I can manulipulate them to make up most of what I need. With me carrying like 12 clubs as SOP it leaves me some wriggle room so to speak to insert clubs on either end. I have been known to insert some crazy stuff in the bag like a persimmon driver at 11* for some dogleg Par 4s where I can not quite hit the 3 wood far enough anymore and the modern driver is too much. I have also been known to insert a 1 iron in yes I can still hit one but then again I can hit a bullett stinger off a fairway lie with the 3 wood. Basically despite loft numbers I know what I can manulipulate a individual club to do. 

I love  your old school approach.  Today golfers seem so focused on the details of the clubs especially loft or how many degrees of loft are supposed to be between clubs.   Put the clubs in the bag that enable you to hit the distances and shapes you need when you are on the course.  Sole grinds are now something that has become part of the base OEM product instead of what players like yourself created by hand.  

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, Deacon Blues said:

I actually prefer 6-degree gaps: I carry a 40-degree 9-iron, followed by 46-, 52-, and 58-degree wedges.

I have an “analysis paralysis” tendency, and the larger gaps (and fewer clubs: I only have 12 in my bag) make club selection much easier. And practicing with larger gaps strengthens my touch and feel when I’m between clubs. Partial shots are a fact of life the closer you get to the green; might as well be prepared for it!

You are of the same school of thought as I am because I only carry 12 clubs too. For me it eliminates second guessing myself. And trust me around the green if the shot and lie dictates I will go to bump and run in the drop of a hat with anything from a PW to a 5 iron. And if I am around a green and overall conditions dictate I will get that putter in hand quickly. 

See from your profile you are from Charlotte---- I was born and raised in North Charlotte back when it was rough not Yuppieville as it is now.

[BIG STU]

7 hours ago, cnosil said:

I love  your old school approach.  Today golfers seem so focused on the details of the clubs especially loft or how many degrees of loft are supposed to be between clubs.   Put the clubs in the bag that enable you to hit the distances and shapes you need when you are on the course.  Sole grinds are now something that has become part of the base OEM product instead of what players like yourself created by hand.  

Thanks man---- A lot of it is the result of when you learned the game and the equipment you had available to play with. Remember most of the regular golfers out there are not as game or equipment savvy as us here on MGS. Most have no idea what the bounce will or will not do and how loft can help or hurt their game. I suggest to anyone wanting to research and mess with wedges get Ralph Maltbie's Book How Wedges Work. It is an eye opener. I knew quite a bit on wedges but really got enlightened on them from that book. Also remember everyones swing and AOA is different and I would never expect someone else to hit my wedges nor would I say that my grinds will work for everyone. 

Back in the day gambling I played a lot of 1 club and 2 club matches and learned a variety of shots. Before I was hurt in 2020 I used to play a lot of like 5 club vintage rounds walking. There was no set way as to what equipment I would use on any given day. But I will say that on any round the one club that would be in the bag would be some kind of 5 iron. That is the most versitile club in the bag for me. IMHO those 5 club rounds will make you think as to how to go about doing things and you will learn to be versitile with clubs. I have and still do practice my short game a lot. In our short game practice area I will often practice the same shot with different clubs. Someone asked me one day why? I told them it was just how I felt that day on that shot as to what I will do. Besides it is fun to me to practice different short game shots. At my old course ( now closed) the small putting and chipping green was right beside the starter. During a lull I used to get a couple of the starters to give me bad lies etc. I would use different clubs or methods again on what the shot dictates. That was fun for them and me both. Lots of times I would hit different shots with the different clubs from the same lie. I have gotten back to some of the old practice stuff because I need exercise and to stay loose yet I can not belt a lot of balls. I mess around the yard here at the house with whiffle balls. ------- But that is the beauty of golf in a nutshell one doing their own thing however they do it

[Raymond Irvine]

I had a gapping session with our Pro last spring. Found my PW was at 44deg and my SW was at 52 deg the same as my Gap wedge. What an eye opener that was.

Since then I've bought 2 new wedges. 48deg and 56deg and discarded the SW. That was probably the best decision I've ever made, related to my bag ever. My game has tightened up brilliantly.

 

[BIG STU]

9 hours ago, DrRob1963 said:

I am currently playing 4 wedges in my bag. Starting with my Mizuno MP-68 set Pitching wedge 47*, plus Mizuno T7 52* loft/9* bounce, T7 58*/8* and MP R-12 64*/5* wedges. On a shorter course, sometimes I will swap out a fairway wood, or long iron, plus the T7 58*, for my Mizuno T7 56*/14* and T7 60*/6* wedges so there are less yardage gaps, but generally I am happy with the 6* gaps which give me about 15-16 yard gaps on a full swing. I've learnt to play 'in-betweener' wedge shots with firm 3/4 swings while gripping down the shaft about 1", so the gaps are manageable. Having four wedges with such varied lofts & bounces gives me plenty of options and versatility around the greens - the 64* lob lets me go at some crazy shots, and that's a lot of fun!

P.S. A 43* wedge, Berg Ryman? That's my 9-iron!

LOL 43* wedge with the old Mac blades that would be a 8 iron!!!!--------- It is true one of my sometimes Shootout partners has a new set of Cleveland irons that has a "Number" and the loft stamped in the sole. Indeed his PW is stamped 43*----- The other week he was trying to hit a bump and run 5 iron like I do. I told him to drop down to his 7 iron. He did and he got better he is one of those that can not fathom about lofts. 

[BIG STU]

1 minute ago, Raymond Irvine said:

I had a gapping session with our Pro last spring. Found my PW was at 44deg and my SW was at 52 deg the same as my Gap wedge. What an eye opener that was.

Since then I've bought 2 new wedges. 48deg and 56deg and discarded the SW. That was probably the best decision I've ever made, related to my bag ever. My game has tightened up brilliantly.

 

Seems like you have found a good pro that understands about things and he has enlightened you

[DrRob1963]

Lofts??? You guys need to try a 64* Mega-Lobby Wedge! Simply amazing what you can do with that much loft!!!!

[Beakbryce]

Have that distance between my PW and GW. I just choke up on the PW for shots between the 2. 

[Micah T]

My wife plays zx4’s and has 6 degrees between the set P wedge (44) and her Cleveland Smart sole Gap wedge (50) and her SW(56)

[BIG STU]

On 1/13/2022 at 5:28 AM, DrRob1963 said:

Lofts??? You guys need to try a 64* Mega-Lobby Wedge! Simply amazing what you can do with that much loft!!!!

I have one a cheapo Dunlop I had in a box of heads and I shafted it up---- Mess with it some for kicks and giggles on the range etc. I have not found a practical purpose for me for my on course game. 

[DrRob1963]

On 1/14/2022 at 10:02 PM, BIG STU said:

I have one a cheapo Dunlop I had in a box of heads and I shafted it up---- Mess with it some for kicks and giggles on the range etc. I have not found a practical purpose for me for my on course game. 

I am often facing greenside shots from deep bunkers, or from thick, sticky rough coming up an embankment to a short-sided pin - so it's very useful there - plus it suits me for manufacturing shots in that 30-40-50 yard range. And I can get excellent stop +/- backspin on the ball at its full range of about 65 yards.

My floppy is a quality Mizuno MP-R12 64* wedge with 5* bounce, with a really nice balance and weight to it. I think getting a high quality mega-floppy wedge is important if you're going to put one in your competition bag.

I know its not for everyone, and a mishit can put a smile on your ball's face, but I really like it, and practice with it a fair bit - so for me, its a very useful "emergency!" specialty club.

[BIG STU]

5 hours ago, DrRob1963 said:

I am often facing greenside shots from deep bunkers, or from thick, sticky rough coming up an embankment to a short-sided pin - so it's very useful there - plus it suits me for manufacturing shots in that 30-40-50 yard range. And I can get excellent stop +/- backspin on the ball at its full range of about 65 yards.

My floppy is a quality Mizuno MP-R12 64* wedge with 5* bounce, with a really nice balance and weight to it. I think getting a high quality mega-floppy wedge is important if you're going to put one in your competition bag.

I know its not for everyone, and a mishit can put a smile on your ball's face, but I really like it, and practice with it a fair bit - so for me, its a very useful "emergency!" specialty club.

That is cool I always say play whatever fits your game. For me I am more or less a old school player from back in the day when the highest lofted wedges we had were 56* or so. We learned to work them as needed as the shot dictated. The shot you used for an example I have several different options with several clubs I can use there. All in all it is how one can utilize equipment to suit their game

[theblake7]

6 degrees seems to be suitable.

 

if you have 4 degree gaps in your irons, and the PW and GW are the same shaft length, very common,   then your distance gap needs to be adjusted by making the GW weaker. (or shorter)

Distance is affected by about 85% loft and 15% by length (according to Tom Wishon)  so do your own math.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by theblake7

[BIG STU]

8 minutes ago, theblake7 said:

6 degrees seems to be suitable.

 

if you have 4 degree gaps in your irons, and the PW and GW are the same shaft length, very common,   then your distance gap needs to be adjusted by making the GW weaker. (or shorter)

Distance is affected by about 85% loft and 15% by length (according to Tom Wishon)  so do your own math.

 

 

Yep I go a lot by what Tom Wishon says--- He used to be a regular poster on WRX and was gracious enough to answer questions until some a**hats started debating him and running him down. Have met him in person before. Anything he says I pay attention to. On the distance versus loft IMHO it all has to do with a lot of individual things for a person like SS and AOA etc. Everyone is different and that is why I am a big proponent of "tuning" clubs to ones individual game that includes shafts lofts and lies too. My clubs and sets ups might not work for you or anyone else and yours may not work for me. Hey the world marches every day to the beat of many different drums

[RoyN]

PW GW and SW all same length and 6* between each. 44 PW 50 GW 56 SW. About 12-15y gap between each depending on the shot.

Edited June 28, 2022 by RoyN

[tehuti]

My current gap is 42-50-56. I went from a 45 to a 42 when I changed irons. So far it is not an issue. If it becomes one maybe I'll add a 46 and remove something at the top end. But I doubt I'll need to do that.

[TheCanadianBogeyman]

My PW is 44.  I had a problem with gaps when I played a 52/56 wedge setup.  This year I have changed to a 50/54/60.  Between my 50 and my PW is a little more of a gap than I like, but I find if I choke up on my PW by about an inch, then its a perfect middle distance.  I've also been experimenting with a wedge matrix from PW down, and it has helped me become more consistent with all my yardages on those wedge shots.

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, TheCanadianBogeyman said:

My PW is 44.  I had a problem with gaps when I played a 52/56 wedge setup.  This year I have changed to a 50/54/60.  Between my 50 and my PW is a little more of a gap than I like, but I find if I choke up on my PW by about an inch, then its a perfect middle distance.  I've also been experimenting with a wedge matrix from PW down, and it has helped me become more consistent with all my yardages on those wedge shots.

I say cool if it works for you--- Also I see you are new so welcome---- These guys on here know this about me--- I always say think outside the box of conventional thinking and experiment on what works for your game--- One of the cool factors about golf nothing is the same for everyone. Another thing is do not get caught up in "proper" loft gapping on the bottom end or even the top end of the bag

[fixyurdivot]

I play a 44, 50 and 56.  That's what the design staff at Srixon believes to be optimum, and who am I to argue . It seems to me that developing partial shot prowess is more the key to great wedge play but I could be wrong.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

My gapping needs to change or at least I know something needs to change! Currently I have 45, 50, 56, 60. I think I want to try replacing the 56 and 60 with a 54 and 58. Here is my dilemma. I am quite good out of the sand with my 56 but it is horrible from the fairway. I purchased a sub 70 JB wedge bent to 55 degrees. This has the opposite issue great from the fairway and around the green but not working out for me out of the sand. 

To qualify a bit more, the bunker sand at my course for the most part is very firm. You couldn't get a fried egg if you were standing on the ball (except for two bunkers that they just re-did). The JB wedge digs in more than the CBX. The CBX will work with all types of sand from fluffy to not so fluffy. The CBX 60 does not work well on tight lies. I need a little grass under the ball then its a pin finding machine from 60 yards and in. 

Obvious solution on the 56 = stay out of the bunkers. 

Reality = That's not going to happen. 

Thoughts?

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

My gapping needs to change or at least I know something needs to change! Currently I have 45, 50, 56, 60. I think I want to try replacing the 56 and 60 with a 54 and 58. Here is my dilemma. I am quite good out of the sand with my 56 but it is horrible from the fairway. I purchased a sub 70 JB wedge bent to 55 degrees. This has the opposite issue great from the fairway and around the green but not working out for me out of the sand. 

To qualify a bit more, the bunker sand at my course for the most part is very firm. You couldn't get a fried egg if you were standing on the ball (except for two bunkers that they just re-did). The JB wedge digs in more than the CBX. The CBX will work with all types of sand from fluffy to not so fluffy. The CBX 60 does not work well on tight lies. I need a little grass under the ball then its a pin finding machine from 60 yards and in. 

Obvious solution on the 56 = stay out of the bunkers. 

Reality = That's not going to happen. 

Thoughts?

You have a bounce dilemma. Need less bounce out of the bunkers and more bounce than that from the fairways.

What are is they bounce on your current wedges?

It could be a swing technique/approach change to bunker play.

Are you a digger, sweeper, in between on your regular shots?

[chisag]

10 hours ago, BIG STU said:

I say cool if it works for you. These guys on here know this about me--- I always say think outside the box of conventional thinking and experiment on what works for your game--- One of the cool factors about golf nothing is the same for everyone. Another thing is do not get caught up in "proper" loft gapping on the bottom end or even the top end of the bag

 

... Never more true than scoring irons. I remember the first time I went to a PGA Tour event and was shocked at how low the Pro's hit their wedges. I began learning to control my wedge trajectory and that produced a big leap in my scoring. I think experimenting with scoring irons is crucial to playing your best golf inside 100yds and thinking outside the box should be part of that process.

... I had always played relatively traditional scoring clubs 48-54-60 but modern lofts caused me to go 46-52-58. Then "more" modern clubs have caused another shift with a 45* pw I now play 50-58. I found a 48* wedge allowed me to attack flags at the 120 range and I find myself between 100-110 more often than not so it is an important yardage to master. When I went 46-52 that range became more difficult and always called for a manufactured shot as my 52* was good to 100yds. After experimenting outside the box I found a 50* wedge not only gave me a full swing into that important yardage, it also is more dependable for bump and run chips in the desert than my 52*. 

... If I could play 15 clubs I would add a 54* wedge but I have been playing so many 3/4 and 1/2 shots it has become a staple of my short game. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You have a bounce dilemma. Need less bounce out of the bunkers and more bounce than that from the fairways.

What are is they bounce on your current wedges?

It could be a swing technique/approach change to bunker play.

Are you a digger, sweeper, in between on your regular shots?

The CBX is a 56 /12 and the JB wedge is a 56/12 bent to 55 degrees

On regular shots (not in a bunker) I am a between a sweeper to very small divot taker.

[THEZIPR23]

2 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

My gapping needs to change or at least I know something needs to change! Currently I have 45, 50, 56, 60. I think I want to try replacing the 56 and 60 with a 54 and 58. Here is my dilemma. I am quite good out of the sand with my 56 but it is horrible from the fairway. I purchased a sub 70 JB wedge bent to 55 degrees. This has the opposite issue great from the fairway and around the green but not working out for me out of the sand. 

To qualify a bit more, the bunker sand at my course for the most part is very firm. You couldn't get a fried egg if you were standing on the ball (except for two bunkers that they just re-did). The JB wedge digs in more than the CBX. The CBX will work with all types of sand from fluffy to not so fluffy. The CBX 60 does not work well on tight lies. I need a little grass under the ball then its a pin finding machine from 60 yards and in. 

Obvious solution on the 56 = stay out of the bunkers. 

Reality = That's not going to happen. 

Thoughts?

You need a low bounce option for out of the bunkers. All of ours very firm as well. My 60* has 3* of bounce and is the only thing that will work out of them. Of course if I am in a fluffy one technique or club or both has to change.

[BIG STU]

12 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Never more true than scoring irons. I remember the first time I went to a PGA Tour event and was shocked at how low the Pro's with their wedges. I began learning to control my trajectory and that produced a big leap in my scoring. I think experimenting with scoring irons is crucial to playing your best golf inside 100yds and thinking outside the box should be part of that process.

... I had always played relatively traditional scoring clubs 48-54-60 but modern lofts caused me to go 46-52-58. Then "more" modern clubs have caused another shift with a 45* pw I now play 50-58. I found a 48* wedge allowed me to attack flags at the 120 range and I find myself between 100-110 more often than not so it is an important yardage to master. When I went 46-52 that range became more difficult and always called for a manufactured shot as my 52* was a good 100yd club. After experimenting outside the box I found a 50* wedge not only gave me a full swing into that important yardage, it also is more dependable for bump and run chips than my 52*. 

... If I could play 15 clubs I would add a 54* wedge but I have been playing so many 3/4 and 1/2 shots it has become a staple of my short game. 

Honestly these days for me 100 yards and up to like 110 it is a 9 iron for me but then again my 9 iron is only 45*. Now recently I have been experimenting with diferent bounce and lofts on the SW and LW. I tightened up my lofts some for me. In the past I used about a 6* spread like you did. Right now I am experimenting with the 50* PW 54* SW and a 58* LW--- Traditionally I preferred 8* bounce in the 56 now it is 12* and with the LW it was also 8* now it is 12. Have experimented with this on some of my vintage fun rounds but have not put it into actual play due to the rain we have had a lot of lately. Have not really had a lot of practice time either. Now the Old 50* is an CF-4000 Mac and I have a lot of experience with it and I have 2 of them. One stays in the vintage set all the time