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More Distance, Shorter Shaft


JFish350

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Long Story short, Driver used to be the best club in my bag. I have been struggling the last almost 3 years with snap hooks big freaking draws to the point where I would use my 3 or 4 iron to tee off. 

A few weeks while at the range I decided to choke down on the grip, turn my right foot out just a bit and now my driver has been on fire. I mean I aim and the 90% of the time the ball goes to my indented target and my distance is back if not a little longer. Last week at Bandon I hit probably the longest drive at 380 #8 at Sheep Ranch. We didn't measure it as we all thought I was further right but he ball was dead center of the fairway. Its a dogleg right and the fairway turned more than we thought. I would say my avg distance for the week was closer to 280-290 ish not counting the 380 shot. I am sure there had to be a great kick for it to go that far. 

Is it possible to get more distance with a shorter shaft? I have a standard shaft length now of 45". 

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29 minutes ago, cnosil said:

short answer:  Yes.   

Longer answer:  Distance is a combination of swing speed and resulting ball speed.  Some people swing a shorter shaft faster and some slower,  but it you are able to hit the center more reliably you will get higher balls speeds than off a mishit which could result in more distance. 

This is kinda what I am thinking, better contact in the middle of the face. Its just odd to me that I line the same either chocked down or at the end of the club but I get better contact by chocking down. I am not sure I want to analyze/over think it and just be happy and not change shafts and start that wicked process.  

Sub 70 949 D 9* HZRUDS 60G 6.5 smoke RDX shaft. 

Sub 70 949X 4 wood ALDILA ABV 65-S shaft

Sub 70 699 Pro 4-AW 

Sub 70 3 utility 19*

Callaway 56 and 58 wedge. 

OG White Hot #1 putter

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7 hours ago, JFish350 said:

Long Story short, Driver used to be the best club in my bag. I have been struggling the last almost 3 years with snap hooks big freaking draws to the point where I would use my 3 or 4 iron to tee off. 

A few weeks while at the range I decided to choke down on the grip, turn my right foot out just a bit and now my driver has been on fire. I mean I aim and the 90% of the time the ball goes to my indented target and my distance is back if not a little longer. Last week at Bandon I hit probably the longest drive at 380 #8 at Sheep Ranch. We didn't measure it as we all thought I was further right but he ball was dead center of the fairway. Its a dogleg right and the fairway turned more than we thought. I would say my avg distance for the week was closer to 280-290 ish not counting the 380 shot. I am sure there had to be a great kick for it to go that far. 

Is it possible to get more distance with a shorter shaft? I have a standard shaft length now of 45". 

Yes, mainly because you’ll probably not loose too much speed and if you’re hitting the center of the face more consistently. Also keep in mind at bandon you’re playing on much firmer ground that runs out more than usual. Same thing happened to me, came back to the valley and couldn’t figure out where my distance went…it was swallowed up my the soggy turf lol

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18 hours ago, JFish350 said:

This is kinda what I am thinking, better contact in the middle of the face. Its just odd to me that I line the same either chocked down or at the end of the club but I get better contact by chocking down. I am not sure I want to analyze/over think it and just be happy and not change shafts and start that wicked process.  

That’s the idea of some folks in long drive and in Tour vans. Shorter length, heavier weight, better control, better efficiency and thus longer drives. If you swing a 45 3/4” driver and average 1.42 smash, but average closer to 1.5 with the shorter shaft, you’re delivering more mass more consistently.

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

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11 hours ago, twyatt700 said:

Yes, mainly because you’ll probably not loose too much speed and if you’re hitting the center of the face more consistently. Also keep in mind at bandon you’re playing on much firmer ground that runs out more than usual. Same thing happened to me, came back to the valley and couldn’t figure out where my distance went…it was swallowed up my the soggy turf lol

This is true, courses up here don't get much roll out. 

Sub 70 949 D 9* HZRUDS 60G 6.5 smoke RDX shaft. 

Sub 70 949X 4 wood ALDILA ABV 65-S shaft

Sub 70 699 Pro 4-AW 

Sub 70 3 utility 19*

Callaway 56 and 58 wedge. 

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40 minutes ago, PMookie said:

That’s the idea of some folks in long drive and in Tour vans. Shorter length, heavier weight, better control, better efficiency and thus longer drives. If you swing a 45 3/4” driver and average 1.42 smash, but average closer to 1.5 with the shorter shaft, you’re delivering more mass more consistently.

Very true, I think I'll stay as is for now and see how things shake out with the soggy conditions here in the PNW. 

 

On another note, I see you are from W Monroe La. Sorry not trying be a creeper.  My son is stationed at Barksdale, we will be there next week for T-day.  The weather looks like its going to be nice so we are thinking of brining the clubs.  What is a good fairly easier course we can play in the Shreveport area? My son and daughter are newer to golf so I don't want to stress them out on a course.  Hope all that makes sense. 

Sub 70 949 D 9* HZRUDS 60G 6.5 smoke RDX shaft. 

Sub 70 949X 4 wood ALDILA ABV 65-S shaft

Sub 70 699 Pro 4-AW 

Sub 70 3 utility 19*

Callaway 56 and 58 wedge. 

OG White Hot #1 putter

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Instead of guessing, go and get an honest driver evaluation by a reputable fitter!  Spend the $100 instead of $1k on guesses or ruining shafts by chopping them up.

Or do like the rest of us junkies and chase! haha.

 

Honestly though- I don't care the length of the driver, I CARE if I can find the sweet-spot more often with whatever length to be more consistent. SUCKS being a tee not knowing where the hell is it going; if only I can hit it ONE time in the screws to carry it however far to get over the hazard.

 

David

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5 hours ago, JFish350 said:

Very true, I think I'll stay as is for now and see how things shake out with the soggy conditions here in the PNW. 

 

On another note, I see you are from W Monroe La. Sorry not trying be a creeper.  My son is stationed at Barksdale, we will be there next week for T-day.  The weather looks like its going to be nice so we are thinking of brining the clubs.  What is a good fairly easier course we can play in the Shreveport area? My son and daughter are newer to golf so I don't want to stress them out on a course.  Hope all that makes sense. 

Querbes is a public course in Shreveport. I’ve never played it, but I’ve heard it’s pretty straight forward. Outside of that, I have NO idea. I’ve only played one course over there and it’s a semi-private course.

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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  • 1 month later...

Yes if it helps you hit the center of the face. I choke up on my driver nearly every tee shot I use it. I'd rather be 280-285 in the fairway, than 300 in the next fairway over.

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I choke up about an inch on my driver as well.  I can hit the middle of the face much more often.  I'm losing no more than 5 yards than well hit drive w/o choking up.  I don't even think about it anymore unless a playing partner points it out.   I wonder if I should just shorten my shaft instead...

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10 hours ago, pakman92 said:

I choke up about an inch on my driver as well.  I can hit the middle of the face much more often.  I'm losing no more than 5 yards than well hit drive w/o choking up.  I don't even think about it anymore unless a playing partner points it out.   I wonder if I should just shorten my shaft instead...

No need to shorten it. If you're already choking up you're preferred length subconsciously, you're getting your desired result.  Why risk having to reteach yourself your club grip on the shorter shift or limiting future options (e.g. I mainly choke down but for fun occasionally I'll long drive swing it using the full grip length). 

Rag tag bag, but it does the job. 

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Cleveland CBX launcher irons (5-PW). 

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Many pros use a shorter shaft than amateur's.  Yes, they have way faster swing speed and can afford to give up whatever additional speed a longer shaft offers... but they don't.  I think Paul @PMookie nailed it about using whatever length you can most consistently hit in the center.  

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On 12/23/2021 at 6:42 AM, MNUte said:

No need to shorten it. If you're already choking up you're preferred length subconsciously, you're getting your desired result.  Why risk having to reteach yourself your club grip on the shorter shift or limiting future options (e.g. I mainly choke down but for fun occasionally I'll long drive swing it using the full grip length). 

Nothing of value to add here, but more anecdotal support for shorter can be better. I start to struggle mightily off the tree once I go above the 44.75 length range. But other then length, there are a few things that you should ponder about that change. 

Choking up does 2 things statically, it lowers your effective swing weight and going an inch of a pretty big swing weight change. So for you, it could just be the swing weight drop is what allows you to synch up better. Maybe you would hit a 48" driver built to that lower swing weight just as straight and even further (it would be hard to get to that weight at that length, but doable). 

The other thing that shortening (or choking up) does is make the lie angle flatter. Which also might be the reason you are not hitting the big hook. This is the main reason I use a "shorter" driver. So again, maybe a longer driver with a good flat setting might work just as well. Ping has a flat setting on their drivers (I think Titleist does too, can anyone confirm?) to help. 

And as mentioned, there is no real need to cut the shaft, if choking up is getting you what you need, don't mess with the shaft length, keep it simple and keep hitting fairways. Brooke Henderson crushes it on the LPGA, she plays a 48" driver, but she chokes up 3". 

 

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... It is very simple really. Missing the center by 1/4" can lose you 5-7 yds. Most routinely miss the center by 1/2" to 1" and that is a loss of 20-28 yds. So a little extra shaft length can produce a few extra yards IF you hit the center of the face consistently. The trick is finding the length that gives you the most center hits which almost always comes down to trial and error. And that trial and error occurs not on the range or in a fitting but on the course when it counts. You can make adjustments as you hit balls on the range or in a fitting but you only get one swing on the course as well as range/fitting swings don't count and teeing off on the course does. This adds either physical tension, mental trepidation or both. 

... I think the vast majority will hit the center more often with a shorter than stock driver length but finding out how short will take time and attention when playing. Choking down is always a better idea then cutting a shaft shorter until you find your ideal length. 

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41 minutes ago, chisag said:

... It is very simple really. Missing the center by 1/4" can lose you 5-7 yds. Most routinely miss the center by 1/2" to 1" and that is a loss of 20-28 yds. So a little extra shaft length can produce a few extra yards IF you hit the center of the face consistently. The trick is finding the length that gives you the most center hits which almost always comes down to trial and error. And that trial and error occurs not on the range or in a fitting but on the course when it counts. You can make adjustments as you hit balls on the range or in a fitting but you only get one swing on the course as well as range/fitting swings don't count and teeing off on the course does. This adds either physical tension, mental trepidation or both. 

... I think the vast majority will hit the center more often with a shorter than stock driver length but finding out how short will take time and attention when playing. Choking down is always a better idea then cutting a shaft shorter until you find your ideal length. 

Like I said earlier, I choke up abut 1 inch (out of habit at this point).  I am able to find the center of the face better this way like chisag said.  I just wanted to throw in one more thing that's help me find the center of the face.  Right shaft.   I can't tell you why, but, same head, same flex but different shaft greatly impact center strike for me.   I'm not consistent enough to determine whether the shaft is right for me with 10-20 strikes.  I would need 100+ with a shaft to see a pattern emerge include whether I'm striking it more consistently in the center.   I'm always trying new shafts.   There is a used market for Callaway optifit shafts of all kinds which allow me to do this fairly cheaply.    I've also found that some time even shaft that is same model and flex will perform differently.   My 2 cents on how to strike the center better.  (In addition to good swing mechanics which goes w/o saying)

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prove it to yourself scientifically 😉😉

get some adhesive clubface "label" that shows an imprint of where you contact the ball.

or the Dr. Scholl's foot spray powder.....

then record the distances with sweet spot hits vs. off center.... as well as frequency of hits in the center

with choked grip vs. regular length.

=====================================

as someone else mentioned:  get fitted.

try different length, flex, kickpoint shafts....

finetune even more 🙂

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Yes. Many PGA Tour Pro's use a 44"-45.5" shaft. I was fitted at the PGA Show by Ping with -1" off the Ping Tour shaft. But from time to time when I'm not hitting the driver well I switch to my 17.5° 5-wood set at 16°. I play on several senior leagues and still out drive everyone with the 5-wood. It's all about hitting the sweet spot.

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This is why I went to the TM Mini 300.  My foursome partners were shocked at not only how much longer I was but much more accurate. I have to be hitting the sweet spot better as well as getting more club head speed.  Longer isn’t necessarily better….that’s what she said too.

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  • 1 month later...

I still play a 44" driver and have no plans to go longer. I played a few rounds in Tucson last week and hit a few balls over 300 yds. I'll be getting my 1st brand new driver in over 10 years very soon, and it'll be 44". That's what I'm comfortable hitting and that's what I hit well most consistently. A longer shaft would obviously give me yards when struck well. But I don't know how often I'd catch it that well. I'll stick with my 44".

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There is a website by an instructor that teaches his students to use shorter shaft driver and how it can mean more yardage and more fairways hit. 

A few years ago I built a 3 irons to a 7 iron length to see what would happen. What I found was that I lost about 5 yards with the shorter 3 iron, but I was hititng it  a good bit straigher. And after a bit to get used to the shorter club, I was on AVERAGE, not losing much at all. Longest shots WERE shorter, but my average was not much shorter at all. Just better ball striking and less off-line with the shorter shaft. So I ended up builting an entire set of irons with 1/4" between clubs instead of the usual 12". I started with the standard 9 iron length of 36" and than added 1/4" per club instead of the normal 1/2". What little distance I lose now on my best shots are made up for with more consistant ball striking and more accuracy with all of my iron shots. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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I'm retired AF and was sent to Barksdale for six weeks of classes at the old SAC NCO Academy.  I don't know about other courses in the area but there is a golf course on base and I've played it.  Look it up or see if your son can send some information.  He should be able to get you on base to play it.  

GPS111

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I will agree with the shorter shaft being easier to hit the center or sweet spot. Another thing to take in account is the the type of swing you have. If you are of the variety that has a long, languid swing then usually you can handle the longer club length. If you have a short, quick backswing and an aggressive transition like myself, then the shorter club length usually works better. At least that has been found in my experimentation. If it works choking up, then don’t change the club. Find an inexpensive shorter one from the past and mess around. It can be a fun winter project.

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  • 1 year later...

Reviving an old thread just to say that I'm going to tinker with this. My driving struggles are well-documented on various threads on this Forum. I just ordered a 50g Riptide CB shaft that was taken from a Cobra FW to use in my Cobra Rad Speed driver.

I'm hoping that this will accomplish two things for me. The first, as is the common theme of this thread, is that I hope to make better centered contact more consistently with the short shaft.

The second, though, is tied to my Stack System training. In the Stack statistics, you can not only see your speed with differing weights, but you can see (on a percentile basis) how you compare in speed to others in your demographic. So in an absolute mph sense, I swing lighter weights faster than heavier, which is obvious. But in a relative sense, I'm in the 90–95 percentile of speed for lighter weights, and that drops to 70–75 percentile for the heavier weights.

So swapping out my driver shaft with a very light, counter-balanced shaft like the Riptide CB should allow me to swing fast and (ideally) also hit the center of the face more regularly. Logically, this is sound, we'll see if the experiment works in practice. Stay tuned...

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I'm curious here. I hit my 17° 4w further than my driver often. The one thought I had to explain it is 43' might be the optimal length for me to boom smash the ball. My driver is 45" if I'm not mistaken. I wonder how it would do at 43.5" but don't want to cut my MCA tensei shaft on a whim.

Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks

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WITB:image.png.3fd681db3510b6ca5b9cd8746bbb1447.pngTS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgTensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgDiamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•image.png.34e4547e173a54172ff78e7545cfce3c.pngStealth 22° image.png.3e3fd052b67b6f62d3666b666d7109fe.png Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• image.png.8fb479c452fc063454e923dea514c13d.png699u 2i 17° image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png tgi 70 R graph•24° image.png.d2eb192c22d125fefbd3607df7e0b327.png Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png Tour 110 black pvd R steel• image.png.eca9fa52c016ce4745893f387fef46df.pngSM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• image.png.3a7bdc80b43a23d4e08c16f2f319cc28.pngJaws Full Toe 56°/12° Screenshot_20230525_002154_Google2.jpg.c2d23d7abfb8451e510d254517410b64.jpgDG Spinner TI steel •image.png.98634e318580c192c5682c5d7f2a763a.png c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•image.png.13e1aa1ef13bc0a92bb27f2e4df082a9.pngPhantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.pngElixir golf ball•

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Did you get fitted for this shaft? For someone that has bought clubs both fitted and unfitted, would think a fitting would be a necessity for a shaft. 

Callaway rogue driver

Ping G400 FW, 3h, 4h 

Callaway Mavrik irons 

callaway jaws 50, 56, 60 wedges 

Odyssey putter 

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4 minutes ago, richk9holes said:

I'm curious here. I hit my 17° 4w further than my driver often. The one thought I had to explain it is 43' might be the optimal length for me to boom smash the ball. My driver is 45" if I'm not mistaken. I wonder how it would do at 43.5" but don't want to cut my MCA tensei shaft on a whim.

It's hard to know definitively from this information alone. It could be shaft length (as a proxy for centered content, which leads to increased ball speed). It could also be angle of attack and/or swing speed. From your signature, it appears you already use a fairly high lofted driver. But if you're often carrying your 17° FW further than your driver, it may mean that based on other aspects of your delivery, you simply need a significant amount of loft to keep the ball in the air.

Again, I'm just spitballing. 

I think you're right to hesitate before doing club surgery. As others have suggested: the better place to start is to do some testing (either on a LM or on course) by choking down an inch or two and seeing what that does to your results.

:titleist-small: TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue
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:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
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Yes, I'm excited to see someone else try a shorter driver so I can do it vicariously. 

For gripping down, that might work but I like the feel of the texture in my Iomic grip that's on the driver. It has an X pattern that feels way more comfortable if you have the cap where it should be.

Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks

'23 Forum Tester: image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.png Elixir Golf Ball

WITB:image.png.3fd681db3510b6ca5b9cd8746bbb1447.pngTS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgTensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgDiamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•image.png.34e4547e173a54172ff78e7545cfce3c.pngStealth 22° image.png.3e3fd052b67b6f62d3666b666d7109fe.png Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• image.png.8fb479c452fc063454e923dea514c13d.png699u 2i 17° image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png tgi 70 R graph•24° image.png.d2eb192c22d125fefbd3607df7e0b327.png Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png Tour 110 black pvd R steel• image.png.eca9fa52c016ce4745893f387fef46df.pngSM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• image.png.3a7bdc80b43a23d4e08c16f2f319cc28.pngJaws Full Toe 56°/12° Screenshot_20230525_002154_Google2.jpg.c2d23d7abfb8451e510d254517410b64.jpgDG Spinner TI steel •image.png.98634e318580c192c5682c5d7f2a763a.png c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•image.png.13e1aa1ef13bc0a92bb27f2e4df082a9.pngPhantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.pngElixir golf ball•

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I think later today I'll practice with the driver at A4 setting (12° standard lie). Only +.75 from the current setting, but maybe there's something to the added loft getting the optimal trajectory.

Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks

'23 Forum Tester: image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.png Elixir Golf Ball

WITB:image.png.3fd681db3510b6ca5b9cd8746bbb1447.pngTS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgTensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Screenshot_20230525_003120_Chrome2.jpg.453ea23fc579d3ff5d81168fdd3d1632.jpgDiamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•image.png.34e4547e173a54172ff78e7545cfce3c.pngStealth 22° image.png.3e3fd052b67b6f62d3666b666d7109fe.png Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• image.png.8fb479c452fc063454e923dea514c13d.png699u 2i 17° image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png tgi 70 R graph•24° image.png.d2eb192c22d125fefbd3607df7e0b327.png Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW image.png.9a4846088e26973fb7fe5624bddbdc81.png Tour 110 black pvd R steel• image.png.eca9fa52c016ce4745893f387fef46df.pngSM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• image.png.3a7bdc80b43a23d4e08c16f2f319cc28.pngJaws Full Toe 56°/12° Screenshot_20230525_002154_Google2.jpg.c2d23d7abfb8451e510d254517410b64.jpgDG Spinner TI steel •image.png.98634e318580c192c5682c5d7f2a763a.png c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•image.png.13e1aa1ef13bc0a92bb27f2e4df082a9.pngPhantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•image.png.9f90721cd28bc7b0a9c9a7080e1e9365.pngElixir golf ball•

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