Can 15 Year Old Clubs Still Compete?

[Everardo]

Once upon a time, I was a club fitter/builder, then left the game, and recently had back surgery. So now with getting back into the game, recovering from back surgery, and selling off most of my equipment, I'm left with 3 sets of clubs, down from 10 , so I'm making progress haha. I built so many to try out and experiment with different heads, shafts, etc but I was always very picky about which clubs would stay in my primary set. So now that I have a different profession, I want to get down to 1 set of clubs.

I'm going through a similar approach to how I would choose clubs to be in my primary set.. Here's a snapshot of yesterdays session. 

The Srixon and KZG sets I build back in 2006ish The HMB's I traded for recently. Lofts were checked prior to hitting, All the other specs were recorded as well and will need to be dialed in a little more once the final set is chosen. I just finished PT and started fitness training again so I'm not as consistent as I used to be but it's a start and a process. 

[cnosil]

Interesting stuff.  IMO, on well struck shots I don’t think there will be much difference.   The area of improvement technology wise would be based on how consistent those numbers remain on misshits.   What is the standard deviation on those numbers and how many shots are included?  

[Everardo]

9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Interesting stuff.  IMO, on well struck shots I don’t think there will be much difference.   The area of improvement technology wise would be based on how consistent those numbers remain on misshits.   What is the standard deviation on those numbers and how many shots are included?  

This was my first test like this, I just wanted to dial in the process. I only hit 5 shots, only keeping the median three, meaning I ditched the perfect shot, duff or real odd ball, so I didn't just choose the longest or 'best' shots since I wanted to take into consideration my own inconsistency. I'm not too surprised by these irons numbers, the Mizuno HMB was a touch longer on the 6 iron but also 2 degrees stronger so really that's a wash. I expect I'll see a wider gap when I go through my hybrid and wood evaluations. 

I also recorded all the specs on the clubs (freq, sw, length, etc) so on this first test I'm seeing the the KZG's are 3/8" longer than the other two sets, the lie angle about .5 more upright, so combining those two the effective lie is even more upright, I need to dial that down a little. Also, the sole on those are narrower than the Srixon and HMB so I suspect that's a little less forgiving. As I hit the rest of the irons and then repeat this all again, I'll be interested to see if the numbers shake out a little more. 

[russtopherb]

To piggyback on what @cnosil pointed out about mishits, another factor may be dispersion as well. From the chart, the Srixons look like the set to beat on most metrics, but accuracy plays a big part as well. A newer set might help with that... or it might not depending on your ball striking.

[Everardo]

1 minute ago, russtopherb said:

To piggyback on what @cnosil pointed out about mishits, another factor may be dispersion as well. From the chart, the Srixons look like the set to beat on most metrics, but accuracy plays a big part as well. A newer set might help with that... or it might not depending on your ball striking.

Based on this first session the Srixons were the most accurate dispersion wise and the most consistent with distance gaps. I'm definitely tracking that as well since I would rather have irons that are more consistent and accurate vs longer. There are other things I'm making note of as well, like the Srixon's swing weights are in-between the other two sets and the most consistent within each other. 

[BIG STU]

I can tell you one thing on the back injury graphite shafts can and will help in the irons. KZG irons I am big on ----they make a good product and are usually ahead of their time. I actually have 2 sets of KZGs one being what I call the old Teardrop CB with Rifle 5.5s and a set of forged blade type CBs with unknown shafts. I did have a set of Teardrops with Swing Science 200 graphites in them and like an idiot sold them. For me irons are not about distance but accuracy. The irons in my signature are 2016 models and I love them. But for me year wise they are a step up because I was playing a set of 1980s Mac VIPs with Hogan Apex steel shafts. Kinda a broad ban departure for me but I had to switch due to permanant nerve damage in my back and the steel shafts were causing high frequency vibrations enraging the already damaged nerves in my back. I have always been a feel and instinct player and have to really revamp my swing and feel but I am learning how to work those irons and tone my swing down some and wait on the graphite some. Overall I like the numbers for you on the KZGs but I may be a little biased

[revkev]

Welcome to the forums!

Compete is an interesting choice of words - like others have already written a well hit shot is a well hit shot - I'm actually surprised to see a 46 degree PW from 2006 but regardless loft for loft, shaft length for shaft length a well hit shot is a well hit shot - there won't be much difference - but golf, at least the scoring part of golf is all about the less than perfect strikes.  So if by compete you mean that you are going to go out and play against other golfers with irons that are 15 years old I'd think not.  

 

If by compete you mean can you get back into playing with them and have fun - of course - I'm sure they will perform just fine.

 

Enjoy

[Everardo]

24 minutes ago, revkev said:

Welcome to the forums!

Compete is an interesting choice of words - like others have already written a well hit shot is a well hit shot - I'm actually surprised to see a 46 degree PW from 2006 but regardless loft for loft, shaft length for shaft length a well hit shot is a well hit shot - there won't be much difference - but golf, at least the scoring part of golf is all about the less than perfect strikes.  So if by compete you mean that you are going to go out and play against other golfers with irons that are 15 years old I'd think not.  

If by compete you mean can you get back into playing with them and have fun - of course - I'm sure they will perform just fine.

Enjoy

I'd agree it's about managing misses to a point. Based on this first session they definitely can compete. The 15-year old Srixon set was the most accurate dispersion wise and the most consistent with distance gaps.

I'm actually not too surprised by the irons, I suspect I'll see bigger discrepancies when I get into my hybrids and woods. For this session I didn't just take the best shots, I'm including misses as well. I'm definitely tracking that as well since I would rather have irons that are more consistent (with distance gaps and mis-hits) and accurate vs longer. There are other things I'm making note of as well, like the Srixon's swing weights are in-between the other two sets and the most consistent within each other. This and other specs are things I have to evaluate. The newer Mizuno 6 iron is 2 degrees stronger that my Srixon and KZG irons, taking that into consideration, these are nearly the same. As I do more sessions with the rest of the clubs and get more shots in with all of them it'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out. 

[BostonSal]

I'm pretty sure that fifteen year old clubs are no more than a set of fresh grips away from being perfectly playable.

UNLESS THEY"RE YOUR FIFTEEN YEAR OLD CLUBS, PERHAPS,

simply because you're fifteen years older than you were when you first played them.

If you were 25 and now you're 40--no problem, most likely.

If you were 50 and now you're 65, however, it could conceivably be different.

[DiscipleofPenick]

100% 15 year old irons can compete. I have a set of Ping Eye2s in the garage, I bet I'd shoot the same with them once I figured out the distances.

[Everardo]

10 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

I'm pretty sure that fifteen year old clubs are no more than a set of fresh grips away from being perfectly playable.

UNLESS THEY"RE YOUR FIFTEEN YEAR OLD CLUBS, PERHAPS,

simply because you're fifteen years older than you were when you first played them.

If you were 25 and now you're 40--no problem, most likely.

More this  

[Everardo]

6 minutes ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

100% 15 year old irons can compete. I have a set of Ping Eye2s in the garage, I bet I'd shoot the same with them once I figured out the distances.

I agree

[cnosil]

31 minutes ago, Fenix said:

I'm actually not too surprised by the irons, I suspect I'll see bigger discrepancies when I get into my hybrids and woods. For this session I didn't just take the best shots, I'm including misses as well. 

I don’t think you will see much difference with the other clubs as well.  You should keep the misshits and mediocre shots; the only ones you should throw out are severe outliers.  

[Everardo]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

I don’t think you will see much difference with the other clubs as well.  You should keep the misshits and mediocre shots; the only ones you should throw out are severe outliers.  

Yeah I hit a small sampling to start but really only threw out the severe ones (good or bad)

[HDTVMAN]

Yes. If you hit 15 year old clubs well, score low, keep them.

[IONEPUTT]

I've done a few demo sessions with the new irons, and the only real difference I see is that the new irons have a lot less Loft then the older clubs with the same number stamped on the head. AS an example, the TM Burner 2.0 6 iron has 5 degrees less loft than my 18 year old forged irons and the ball goes about 20 yards farther with the new Burner than my older 6 iron. Bottom line the Burner 6 iron is more like a strong 5 iron of 15 years ago. Me, I'd much rather have my older set and just hit a 5 iron if I need another 15-20 yards of carry. 

 

Same thing for the new drivers. I'll keep my old 2005 Launcher Comp and let the rest of you have the newer driver with the adjustable hosel garbage. 

[GPS111]

I have seven year old heads and keep "updating" by swapping shafts and grips based on my changing abilities.  I'm 68 so my game IS changing whether I like it or not and it is far different than the game I had at 38 but equipment tweaks keeps it close even though distance is the part that changed the most. 

But the heads I have I like.  Perform well, great feel and the look at address I want so I don't want to change them. How they perform for me became a function of the shaft installed and graphite was the best move I've made.  Same with grip - now softer midsize with two wraps under the lower hand.  If recovering from a back injury those can be a benefit for you like they were with age for me.  But don't just grab any graphite or grip.  Get fit and get the loft, lie, flex, kick point, grip size, etc.,  combination you need then research the shafts/grips that fit your dynamic swing data.  And not just with five balls eliminating the high and low.  Get as much data you need per club to make an intelligent decision.  

Now I've said I love my heads, I am looking at foam or polymer filled heads.  I tried some at my fitting and they can be a game changer for bad backs and aging bodies!

[cnosil]

5 hours ago, Fenix said:

Yeah I hit a small sampling to start but really only threw out the severe ones (good or bad)

You should keep the really good ones,  they are the far end of your dispersion pattern.  Need to determine the full pattern, not just the ones you fell like you hit normal.  That is why you look at standard deviations. 

[ZenGolfer]

10 hours ago, Fenix said:

Once upon a time, I was a club fitter/builder, then left the game, and recently had back surgery. So now with getting back into the game, recovering from back surgery, and selling off most of my equipment, I'm left with 3 sets of clubs, down from 10 , so I'm making progress haha. I built so many to try out and experiment with different heads, shafts, etc but I was always very picky about which clubs would stay in my primary set. So now that I have a different profession, I want to get down to 1 set of clubs.

I'm going through a similar approach to how I would choose clubs to be in my primary set.. Here's a snapshot of yesterdays session. 

The Srixon and KZG sets I build back in 2006ish The HMB's I traded for recently. Lofts were checked prior to hitting, All the other specs were recorded as well and will need to be dialed in a little more once the final set is chosen. I just finished PT and started fitness training again so I'm not as consistent as I used to be but it's a start and a process. 

As someone who plays irons that are 10-20 years old (depending upon if Im playing the Mizunos or the Cobras), I can tell you that older clubs absolutely can compete.  Ive said many times in the past that Im not really a fan of loft jacking because it kills spin, which isnt always a good thing.

A well struck shot isnt going to me much different with any iron, although you could argue that the newer clubs are better on mishits.

[Everardo]

58 minutes ago, ZenGolfer said:

As someone who plays irons that are 10-20 years old (depending upon if Im playing the Mizunos or the Cobras), I can tell you that older clubs absolutely can compete.  Ive said many times in the past that Im not really a fan of loft jacking because it kills spin, which isnt always a good thing.

A well struck shot isnt going to me much different with any iron, although you could argue that the newer clubs are better on mishits.

Yeah totally not a fan of loft jacking, I never found the ego in saying I'm hitting a certain club number over another.  These three sets all have different shafts too which shows the head/shaft combo is pretty well even across these. 

[Billy-Bo-Jim-Bob]

No question about it. Would play my titleist 990’s any day! Happy turkey day!

[BIG STU]

15 hours ago, GPS111 said:

I have seven year old heads and keep "updating" by swapping shafts and grips based on my changing abilities.  I'm 68 so my game IS changing whether I like it or not and it is far different than the game I had at 38 but equipment tweaks keeps it close even though distance is the part that changed the most. 

But the heads I have I like.  Perform well, great feel and the look at address I want so I don't want to change them. How they perform for me became a function of the shaft installed and graphite was the best move I've made.  Same with grip - now softer midsize with two wraps under the lower hand.  If recovering from a back injury those can be a benefit for you like they were with age for me.  But don't just grab any graphite or grip.  Get fit and get the loft, lie, flex, kick point, grip size, etc.,  combination you need then research the shafts/grips that fit your dynamic swing data.  And not just with five balls eliminating the high and low.  Get as much data you need per club to make an intelligent decision.  

Now I've said I love my heads, I am looking at foam or polymer filled heads.  I tried some at my fitting and they can be a game changer for bad backs and aging bodies!

Yep graphite shafts set up properly can be a game changer for us with bad backs--- Also the foam filled heads or heads like the ones I have with the polymer stuff help too on vibration. In the past I had done a lot of study on torsinional vibration especially engines with my racing background---- I broke my back in April of 2020--- Have permanant nerve damage now. Did the therapy and such also worked out with Drs approval with a swing trainer. Thought I was coming around but still had pain and stiffness after golf every time I played. I had some discussions with others on here and another site I frequent. Also had a discussion with a golf instructor friend of mine on the same subject of vibration. Talked to my neurosurgeon and he agreed about frequency vibration inflaming the nerves in my back. I was resistant to change having played steel shafted blade Macgregors all my golfing life---- About a month and a half now I hurt myself bad again not structually but nerve wise. I was going to give up the game period. I had been working with the TM irons in my signature for a year or so on and off. Never had actually played a round with them my instructor friend talked me into seriously giving it a try. He also told me about waiting on the shaft some compared to my steel shafted ones---- I finally put them into play in our weekly Shootout-- Played 18 with absolutely no pain and stiffness and no pain meds. The test was the next morning I had no pain or stiffness or what I called a hang over--- In fact unheard of for me in the past I played 9 holes Sunday afternoon--- Have about 8 rounds in now with no pain of stiffness--- Yep I was being resistant to change but had my back against the wall but it was change or quit alltogether---- Glad I changed and stayed in the game

[Middler]

^^^ Graphite (iron) shafts not only help with bad backs, they’re better for wrist, elbow and shoulder joints as well. After a battle with tennis elbow and sore wrists after every round about nine months ago, I reshafted my irons from steel to graphite and it’s definitely helped!

[GaDawg]

Hello,

I am just recovering from back surgery too. Currently, in the middle of PT and just chipping/putting at this time. I wish you continued progress on whichever set you decide to keep.

[Everardo]

10 hours ago, Middler said:

^^^ Graphite (iron) shafts not only help with bad backs, they’re better for wrist, elbow and shoulder joints as well. After a battle with tennis elbow and sore wrists after every round about nine months ago, I reshafted my irons from steel to graphite and it’s definitely helped!

What shafts did you end up with?

[Everardo]

2 hours ago, GaDawg said:

Hello,

I am just recovering from back surgery too. Currently, in the middle of PT and just chipping/putting at this time. I wish you continued progress on whichever set you decide to keep.

Nothing like motivation than when anyone tells you "you can't putt, or chip or play"  Those 3 months were agonizing but also everyone I spoke to said. Wait, and wait even longer than what your Dr's say. For example, they said no putting or even baby chipping for 2 months, I waiting till 3.  No one seems to regret doing more PT, fitness training, and recovery but I've heard several say "I wish I had waiting to fully recover" Even today, it was my 3rd round back since starting rount two of PT and physical conditioning and I was still swinging nervously for the first 6 holes. I just even wanna have that pain and crippling again - Best of luck to you! 

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, GaDawg said:

Hello,

I am just recovering from back surgery too. Currently, in the middle of PT and just chipping/putting at this time. I wish you continued progress on whichever set you decide to keep.

Thanks Dawg--- I was lucky I did not have to have surgery. I structurally healed up fine and my compressed disc re inflated itself. Mine is basically nerve damage which the docs say may or may not go away it is a crap shoot. Yep I went through PT for both the shoulder which I broke too and the back. The shoulder doc plays golf himself and got me into a PT program to help play golf again. I have had absolutely no problem with the shoulder. But for now I am sticking with the graphite. Stick with the PT I know it hurts but stick with it

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, Fenix said:

Nothing like motivation than when anyone tells you "you can't putt, or chip or play"  Those 3 months were agonizing but also everyone I spoke to said. Wait, and wait even longer than what your Dr's say. For example, they said no putting or even baby chipping for 2 months, I waiting till 3.  No one seems to regret doing more PT, fitness training, and recovery but I've heard several say "I wish I had waiting to fully recover" Even today, it was my 3rd round back since starting rount two of PT and physical conditioning and I was still swinging nervously for the first 6 holes. I just even wanna have that pain and crippling again - Best of luck to you! 

Well 3 weeks after the accident they did let me putt some with a back brace on. I had one broomhandle putter and built another. I kinda propped up and putted also had one of those suction cup things on the butt end because I could not bend over. Like 3 weeks later they said I could chip some. After like 6 months they gave me the green light to hit balls some. This is where I pressed the issue. I would do my 1 hr PT and then drive down the road 1 mile to the course and hit balls. I even tried to rush things by hitting the heaviest clubs I had with stiff shafts. I will admit I have always been WFO and hard headed. After all you are talking to a guy that had kidney stone surgery and was in the hospital for 2 days. The day I got out I jumped into one of my dirt track race cars and drove that night and the next with a catheter in. Needless to say I had a couple of setbacks on the back. I know my neurosurgeon said I was one of a few in his 25 years of practicing medicine that he had to slow down. He told me most folks in my situation especially Workmans Comp cases dogged it because they were drawing WC. I told him I was semi retired anyhow and was enjoying golf and that was one of the things I retired to do and I did not give 2 damns about the weekly checks I  just wanted to get on with my life. 

I will be the first to back you up 110% about the doubt and reflex action relating to pain trying to play--- After my false start last year I sat out Nov thru about the 1st of March. Still did the swing trainer some and hit whiffle balls with the wedges. One word of caution watch those swing trainers--- I used my Skilz Ball one to get me to turn again and it was fine and to build speed. That was ok on face value but when actually playing and hitting a ball I was overswinging and going too hard. Something else we found out-- I have always had a lot of upper body strength. During my WC evaluation they found out I was not doing the exercises correctly. On the ones like sitting and standing and the parallel ones for balance I was actually using my arms instead of my core to push up. It was determined that I was not being properly supervised or watched. In fact I can not say more because we have a seperate pending lawsuit going against the therapy place now. I actually GAINED upper body strength. I ended up having to do 10 closely supervised extra therapy sessions. That is where the law suit comes in for both me and the insurance company. For once the Insurance Company is on my side. I will say take it easy and do not go WFO like I did

[NRJyzr]

Speaking to main topic...  irons, no real change, with one main exception (G410 and G700 from Ping, new level of MOI reached with them).  Aside from the exception, I think anything from the last 30 or 40 years could compete pretty well.

Might have to pick your spots a bit, the older you go in that range.

Drivers and woods have definitely improved, largely because companies now better understand how to produce lower spin.  And they've added a side benefit of better forgiveness with reasonable spin levels.

As for graphite iron shafts...  I've become a huge fan.  Went experimental 4 years ago, was very pleasantly surprised at the performance.  Went back to steel for a while, switched back this past year once the elbows/wrists started complaining a bit.  Very glad I did; had no trouble with irritation the rest of the year.

The only real negative with graphite iron shafts is that there are quite a few options available.  For a recovering club ho such as myself, it can provide too many opportunities 

[mywong23]

yes, depends upon your definition of "compete"....

I still play weekly with my 35 YO BeCu ping eye 2's.... still score mid 90's...

the 1, 2, 3 irons are in storage.   

added 52 & 60* Vokeys to 7 yo driver, 5W & 4H.   

I'm 72.   6-7 years ago, I lost 25-30 yds and shot 100's.  (old age & loss of muscle mass

but last two years have regained 10-15 yds and back in mid 90's

still wagering with guys I played with for 50 years