Can 15 Year Old Clubs Still Compete?

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, Riverboat said:

Seriously? Aside from the clubs that you happen to like, all others are just pretenders? Okay. 

Not sure why people seen to think irons haven't advanced, but they're totally willing to accept the advances in drivers, woods, putters, balls.... everything else. They've all improved tremendously, but with irons, all they've done is jack the lofts, except for those pings of course.  It's very odd. 

[BIG STU]

10 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

Speaking to main topic...  irons, no real change, with one main exception (G410 and G700 from Ping, new level of MOI reached with them).  Aside from the exception, I think anything from the last 30 or 40 years could compete pretty well.

Might have to pick your spots a bit, the older you go in that range.

Drivers and woods have definitely improved, largely because companies now better understand how to produce lower spin.  And they've added a side benefit of better forgiveness with reasonable spin levels.

As for graphite iron shafts...  I've become a huge fan.  Went experimental 4 years ago, was very pleasantly surprised at the performance.  Went back to steel for a while, switched back this past year once the elbows/wrists started complaining a bit.  Very glad I did; had no trouble with irritation the rest of the year.

The only real negative with graphite iron shafts is that there are quite a few options available.  For a recovering club ho such as myself, it can provide too many opportunities 

For me on the graphites it is in the very early learning process--- I will admit for me I have very limited knowledge on playing them or building them---  My first start with them was a set of KZGs that i actually built for my bud Bear and he did not like the looks of the heads and I ended up with them. They had Swing Science 200 Senior Flex shafts and I built them dead on spec. I played them some when I first started back but after the little SNAFU of me actually gaining upper body strength I started rope hooking the crap out of them. I ended up selling those things to a guy for his 80 something Dad real cheap. The TMs I got in a trade buy deal. Loved the heads better than any other CB I had ever seen. I had a couple of chances to flip for a profit but something told me to hold on and keep them. Glad I did. For now I am well satisfied and have kinda reformed my club ho ways. Of course when I learn more about graphite in irons do not be surprised to see a set of Mac Blades with graphite in the future. But for now as I progress I am learning to relish the smooth fell of the graphite shafted TMs.

And BTW I was not always a club ho--- Played the same set of 66 PB Citation irons for 6 or 8 years until I went back to my Mac VIPs because the PBs were half worn out when I got them and I finished them off. Played the first set of VIPs darn near 15 years---- Putted with the Ping Zing 2 for right at 20 years--- Back then the only way I replaced a club was if I wore it out. I can not blame MGS or WRX for being a club ho. I got that from my late partner Big John when we had the golf shop. He was very knowledgeable on equipment and got me to trying different stuff--- I did have a small collecton of classic stuff that I held on to for sentimental reasons but it still was small. I think my escalation of club hoeing was when I started at the scrapyard and hooked up with my bud Bear--- Bear is partially to blame too he club hoes and runs out of room and then pawns stuff off on me. I told him a while back no more. Right now I am thinning the heard because I think we may be moving in the next year. This area is getting too crowded for us and getting worse and worse every year. We are thinking seriously about buying a motorhome and crusing for a year or two to different places to see where we want to settle for the rest of our lives. 

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, Riverboat said:

Seriously? Aside from the clubs that you happen to like, all others are just pretenders? Okay. 

Not sure why people seen to think irons haven't advanced, but they're totally willing to accept the advances in drivers, woods, putters, balls.... everything else. They've all improved tremendously, but with irons, all they've done is jack the lofts, except for those pings of course.  It's very odd. 

Depending on how you look at it irons have advanced. Basic blades have not changed any. Now other irons have changed from a design standpoint as in weight placement and like 2 piece faces. Shaft engineering along with the newer heads have changed the game and IMHO has kept some folks in the game longer. Loft jacking is nothing other than changing the number on the bottom of a club and maybe having to add a "wedge" Todays Gap or A wedge is yesterdays PW. Todays 4 iron ( when you can find one ) is yesterdays 2 or 3 iron. Now I will admit a modern Callaway 4 iron with perimeter weighting is a lot easier to launch than a old blade 3 iron and with the newer metals and designs has more ball speed and with the shaft combo has a more penetrating ball flight. But I guess because it is the way I have played my whole life I do prefer the old blades

[Siamese Moose]

I can't think of a single five year period, not to mention fifteen, where my swing stayed constant enough that one set of irons was still a best fit. There were a couple times I simply reshafted, which I can do myslf and enjoy doing, but I really can't fit myself anymore. There's no way I can keep up with the myriad options available today, so I rely on a professional. At this point it's simpler to buy new.

[NRJyzr]

5 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Depending on how you look at it irons have advanced. Basic blades have not changed any. Now other irons have changed from a design standpoint as in weight placement and like 2 piece faces. Shaft engineering along with the newer heads have changed the game and IMHO has kept some folks in the game longer. Loft jacking is nothing other than changing the number on the bottom of a club and maybe having to add a "wedge" Todays Gap or A wedge is yesterdays PW. Todays 4 iron ( when you can find one ) is yesterdays 2 or 3 iron. Now I will admit a modern Callaway 4 iron with perimeter weighting is a lot easier to launch than a old blade 3 iron and with the newer metals and designs has more ball speed and with the shaft combo has a more penetrating ball flight. But I guess because it is the way I have played my whole life I do prefer the old blades

There were two piece clubs in the 90s, the example that comes immediately to mind are the Tommy Armour 845 Ti irons (I remember there being others, just not remembering model names this morning).  Hollow irons, also, though i don't know if they were foam filled.  They weren't prevalent, for sure.

For forgiveness, nothing seemed to get much higher than the Zing.  Several hit that same area code, but then the G410 and G700 pushed it to a crazy new level.  The G410 iron has an MOI pretty close, maybe higher, than the SLDR 460 driver.  

That's incredible.  To me, anyway.  Makes me wonder about trying a set at some point, though I'm not especially fond of the stock loft gaps.  (fixable)

With the old blades, everything considered an advance exists in the 20th century.  Hogan and Mizuno both had higher bounce blades.  Wilson was moving the CG away from the hosel pretty effectively.  And they managed a pretty high MOI as well; their 68 Dynapowers are as forgiving as anything I've seen listed.

You might enjoy knowing the highest MOI in any blades I've seen are the CF4000.  The downside, the CG is pretty high, and pretty close to the hosel. 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by NRJyzr

[BIG STU]

5 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

There were two piece clubs in the 90s, the example that comes immediately to mind are the Tommy Armour 845 Ti irons (I remember there being others, just not remembering model names this morning).  Hollow irons, also, though i don't know if they were foam filled.  They weren't prevalent, for sure.

For forgiveness, nothing seemed to get much higher than the Zing.  Several hit that same area code, but then the G410 and G700 pushed it to a crazy new level.  The G410 iron has an MOI pretty close, maybe higher, than the SLDR 460 driver.  

That's incredible.  To me, anyway.  Makes me wonder about trying a set at some point, though I'm not especially fond of the stock loft gaps.  (fixable)

With the old blades, everything considered an advance exists in the 20th century.  Hogan and Mizuno both had higher bounce blades.  Wilson was moving the CG away from the hosel pretty effectively.  And they managed a pretty high MOI as well; their 68 Dynapowers are as forgiving as anything I've seen listed.

You might enjoy knowing the highest MOI in any blades I've seen are the CF4000.  The downside, the CG is pretty high, and pretty close to the hosel. 

 

I know there was some 80 90 ish Mizuno driving irons that were hollow. One of my customers bought one and loved it except the sound.  I ended up drilling it near the toe and put some spray foam in it and quitened it down. I had drilled and threaded the toe for a 3/32 allen head screw and epoxeyed it in. I was concerned the toe weight might throw it off. I did use an aluminum screw. I had messed around with the Allen Screws some adjusting weights on some of the Bobby Grace Mark 5 putters so I knew about weight on those. The customer loved it after the conversion in fact he had me modify the other one and he bought it too for his BIL.

Yep I knew that about the CFs I was thinking you or Fellaheem posted the MPF specs on them. In fact I have a Armour VFQ CF PW coming when ever it gets here. The design is a little different on the back and I love the weight placement. Had one of those wedges for years and it got stolen with the Spalding Elite irons back in 77. Never found another one like it. One of the guys on FB on the PGS had it and I pulled the trigger for $25. May pull the Callaway 52 out of the main set if it works out.

About 15 years ago now I built a set of CFs. I had cut the hosel down some and had drilled a tad deeper. Put a set of Rifle 6.5s in them. Man they hit good. My conversion moved the sweet spot out to the middle. A bud of mine I call a traveling pro and gambler was here. He hit them and loved them. Made me an offer I could not refuse cash. Now this guy works a club pro job around Northern Ohio and or Michigan during the summer and has a gig in Florida in the winter. He also high stakes gambles and plays some of the Fla minis some. He had a Nike deal but plays the CFs when the chips are down and the cards are on the table. Have not seen him in like 5 years but we have an agreement that if he ever wants to sell I have first dibs. I had enterained the thought of building another set with 5.5s or Apex shafts before I was hurt never got around to it and steel shafts are more than likely out of the question for me at this stage

 

[fozcycle]

One of our club members is a steady 5 Hcap……his irons are Taylormade CGB’s which are a good 16 years old and were rated as Super Game Improvement clubs.  The shafts are steel. He does have graphites in his Taylormade Rescue hybrids, 3 & 5..and he is 61 years old.

[T-Bone]

I keep a set of Mizuno MP-33s at my mothers house in Charlotte and use them when I go to visit.   They have the old S400 True Temper shafts on them.  I currently play the MP-25 with the KBS C-Taper shafts.  Overall, other than a little different feel and a bit less forgiving the irons still hold up well.  Certainly within a half club from what I remember from my round this past spring.   Thinking of bringing the clubs home and selling them and letting someone else that may use them more enjoy them.  Using them once or maybe twice a year seems a bit selfish, even if they are my favorites of all time.  ha ha 

[Everardo]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:11 AM, T-Bone said:

I keep a set of Mizuno MP-33s at my mothers house in Charlotte and use them when I go to visit.   They have the old S400 True Temper shafts on them.  I currently play the MP-25 with the KBS C-Taper shafts.  Overall, other than a little different feel and a bit less forgiving the irons still hold up well.  Certainly within a half club from what I remember from my round this past spring.   Thinking of bringing the clubs home and selling them and letting someone else that may use them more enjoy them.  Using them once or maybe twice a year seems a bit selfish, even if they are my favorites of all time.  ha ha 

I'm down to 3 sets of clubs (from like 10-12 when I was fitting/building regularly) so now my quest is to get it down to one set. Kinda for that reason, they all just feel a little different and hopefully someone they can bring joy to someone else

[Everardo]

Here's another update, this time with the 7 irons but results have been very similar with 5-P. So as many of us answered, yes, old clubs can still compete just fine. 

Now since I'm not a robot, and recovering from back surgery, I've been testing all these irons together and separately for multiple sessions over the past couple weeks. Somedays I'm better than others but this snap shot is an average of the last 10 shots.

• All the lofts and lie angles were adjusted to match.
• The same ball and launch monitor were used. 
• KZG and Srixon both have RP Project X shaft, the Mizuno's have Oban shaft.
• Swing weights vary quite a bit, the Mizuno's are D0, Srixon's D4, and KZG's are D7

	Club	Ball	Smash	Launch	Spin	Height	Carry	Total
KZG Evolution (2004)	81.9	117.3	1.43	21.4	5865	99.4	170	180
Mizuno HMB (2020)	84.0	116.0	1.38	20.4	6782	95.7	166	176
Srixon I-506 (2006)	86.0	115.5	1.34	20.7	6917	97.8	165	174