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First, happy holidays folks. Funny enough I thought the season was done. But looks like next week we will have back to back 60 degree days here in Illinois. 
 

Anyway, here is a summary of what I was taught 3 decades ago on how to play the game. Learn grip, posture, alignment. Than focus on pitch and chipping. (Once efficient) add body rotation thru the strike with very little hands squaring the face feeling 

First: main focus was always chips and pitch shots. Had an old school pro who claimed the chip and pitch shot was basically a full swing. And no one ever did well hitting a ball by flipping at it or crossing over the hands. It was all a square faced feeling from hip high too hip high. 
 

Secondly : on full shots it’s more body with that being the main focus on what squares the club face. So basically your main objective is your left hip kicks behind you as your whole right side of your body is at the ball before the handle of the club. Which allows my ball flight to be draw bias since almost day one. Very similar to what they teach youths on how to hit a baseball by squishing the bug. Never let the hands outrace the body 

The long deceased teacher really drilled this into us for a solid few weeks at his clinics. And he was very old school Sam Snead style of body rotation into impact look . 

Just reading and delving into what you guys are working on has been Interesting. I wonder if what I was taught is still viable today? And I honestly haven’t seen my swing since the vhs camcorder days 

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I think the important thing to remember is that feels are different for every person. There's a good Team TaylorMade video out there on YouTube with Morikawa and Tiger talking about the feels they have with their irons, and they're completely different but basically arriving at the same goal.

I can say that your feeling of the body being first to the ball is not a swing feel that would work well for me. While I agree that the body movement in the downswing is responsible for squaring the club face, I can't use that feel. It doesn't mean that it's wrong for you to feel that, but with my tendencies that would get me spinning out with my shoulders and my arms stuck behind me. I typically need to feel my hands being the main contributor to my downswing, not to flip at the ball, but to feel like my hands and arms are accelerating off my chest. But I have no issue with getting my hips open enough even without feeling like I do anything with the hips or body.

image.png.c7585c160a5c912aa3c36b21dfa9cd68.png

Based on your posts I assume you would agree with me here - at the end of the day the ball doesn't care about how you arrived at impact. It only cares about conditions (i.e. path, face angle, dynamic lie/loft, speed) at the moment of impact. If you are getting the ball flight and results that you want, then great! Whatever you're doing is working. 

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8 hours ago, Goober said:

Just reading and delving into what you guys are working on has been Interesting. I wonder if what I was taught is still viable today? 

Sure it is still viable.  You described what your instructor told you and how you translated those words into what works for you.   That is how any form of instruction works.  People also learn differently and have specific abilities that make hinder their ability to do what they are being asked to do.  I can interpret you statement “ never let you haves outrace the body” as spin the hips and leave the hands behind; which will result in a flip.  That feel is completely wrong for me, I need to feel the hands going down and leading the body.  
 

Think about this:  when you started golf, did you immediately take lessons or did you figure it out on your own?  How long did it take you to play at the level you are now, did you break 80 right after those initial lessons?   Have you ever had a teacher that said things that made no sense (not just golf, school, works, life).  Ever had a habit that you needed to break, how long did it take?   Ever tried to explain something to someone that didn’t understand what you were saying?  People also come from different starting points with instruction.  Some people immediately start with instruction and some try to learn on their own first.  
 

For good or for bad times have changed and people now receive instruction remotely.  This isn’t better or worse; it is just different and some people will do well with this approach and some won’t. 

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I think its also important to take into account where you are at in your game, I think someone starting out could use some basic coaching like that but its also important (as we see on the internet all over the place) to "swing your swing". As @cnosil gets into, everyone learns differently so breaking it down for one person may not translate that way for another.

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25 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

I think its also important to take into account where you are at in your game, I think someone starting out could use some basic coaching like that but its also important (as we see on the internet all over the place) to "swing your swing". As @cnosil gets into, everyone learns differently so breaking it down for one person may not translate that way for another.

Exactly.

Part of my responsibilities in my company is teaching our product to a variety of people. Customers, Engineers, installation crews, project managers and so on. Both employees and customers. These classes are either in classrooms or in the field offices and sometimes on job sites. You have to learn to read the audience. There are 3 types of learners. Ones that can learn from reading, ones from listening, and others from seeing and doing. You can look at people and If you see those glazed donut eyes I immediately say let me explain this another way, or let me show you. In my teaching I incorporate all three ways. This way when I leave everyone get it.

It's no different in golf. You need to understand what your instructor is teaching you in a way that makes sense to you. Sometimes that is a feel that is different from one person to another.

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I think I almost need to go in the @edingc camp on this one.  My natural movements are very body driven such that if I do what you talked about with your instructor I would overdo it and be mostly hitting slices as my path shifts too far left by the time my hands get to impact.

But as far as learning the game from green to tee, I do think that is the best way to do it.  My contact and ball flight is always better if I am able to spend a few minutes hitting some chips and pitches before my round.  For me, it really is a great "get in sync" tool.  

@cnosil and others were spot on, the words we need to hear to may be different, but the actual goal at impact doesn't vary much from player to player.  Some will need to be told to squish a bug, some will need to be told to throw a frisbee, some will need to be told something else entirely, but we all need to listen to what that mischievous little white ball is telling us as it flies through the air.  Unless you're using @Yellow Ball.  I wouldn't trust that thing at all.  😉 

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48 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

 but we all need to listen to what that mischievous little white ball is telling us as it flies through the air.  Unless you're using @Yellow Ball.  I wouldn't trust that thing at all.  😉 

It's the little things in life that give me the most enjoyment. I have successfully created Yellow Ball Phobia.

45.jpg.35ed72264888bbc861e7052cc4142ada.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Exactly.

Part of my responsibilities in my company is teaching our product to a variety of people. Customers, Engineers, installation crews, project managers and so on. Both employees and customers. These classes are either in classrooms or in the field offices and sometimes on job sites. You have to learn to read the audience. There are 3 types of learners. Ones that can learn from reading, ones from listening, and others from seeing and doing. You can look at people and If you see those glazed donut eyes I immediately say let me explain this another way, or let me show you. In my teaching I incorporate all three ways. This way when I leave everyone get it.

It's no different in golf. You need to understand what your instructor is teaching you in a way that makes sense to you. Sometimes that is a feel that is different from one person to another.

Bingo. A lot of non-golfers could read this thread I think lol. A lot of positions is reading people and understanding what they need (to hear in my work case) 

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21 hours ago, Goober said:

First, happy holidays folks. Funny enough I thought the season was done. But looks like next week we will have back to back 60 degree days here in Illinois. 
 

Anyway, here is a summary of what I was taught 3 decades ago on how to play the game. Learn grip, posture, alignment. Than focus on pitch and chipping. (Once efficient) add body rotation thru the strike with very little hands squaring the face feeling 

First: main focus was always chips and pitch shots. Had an old school pro who claimed the chip and pitch shot was basically a full swing. And no one ever did well hitting a ball by flipping at it or crossing over the hands. It was all a square faced feeling from hip high too hip high. 
 

Secondly : on full shots it’s more body with that being the main focus on what squares the club face. So basically your main objective is your left hip kicks behind you as your whole right side of your body is at the ball before the handle of the club. Which allows my ball flight to be draw bias since almost day one. Very similar to what they teach youths on how to hit a baseball by squishing the bug. Never let the hands outrace the body 

The long deceased teacher really drilled this into us for a solid few weeks at his clinics. And he was very old school Sam Snead style of body rotation into impact look . 

Just reading and delving into what you guys are working on has been Interesting. I wonder if what I was taught is still viable today? And I honestly haven’t seen my swing since the vhs camcorder days 

The golf season is NEVER over!  I live in Pennsylvania (northeast of Philadelphia, near Trenton, NJ) and play on a winter golf tour — one and two-day events every week from the last week of October through the final week of March, with a Tour Championship the first week of April.  This winter golf tour has been going for more than 50 years, and there have only been a handful of cancellations in that entire time.  In just over three years that I have been playing on this winter tour, there was just one cancellation, and we have played in actual temperatures as low as 20* F., with wind chills below 0* F. This week’s event was played at the far northern end of the NJ Shore right along the Atlantic Ocean and we teed-off with temperatures hovering at freezing (31-32* F.), with a steady 15 MPH wind and gusts above 30 MPH.  The day’s high temperature was below 40* F., and that is a warm day for December, January, and February (and often March) tour events.  In the past four years, the number of tour members has increased from below 135 to more than 160 players, including as many as 44 area club professionals and NCAA golf coaches, plus several scratch amateurs in the Open Division.  Yes, we are crazy, and yes, I have seen scratch and very low single-digit handicap golfers shoot in the mid-high 90s (even 100+) when it is extra cold, and the wind is howling. Two days before Thanksgiving this year, our tour event was held in sub-freezing temperatures with strong winds, and the winning score in the Open Division was a 5 over par 76, with many golfers shooting 90+ (a 4-handicap buddy of mine shot 98, and one of the PGA Club Pros shot 90).

As for what you were taught as you came up in the game, focusing first on fundamentals (grip, posture, alignment), and then progressing to the short shots (pitching, chipping and putting) is always a great way to progress in your learning, and the idea of using the big muscles (body core, hips, glutes and quads/hamstrings) to power the swing will never go out of style, no matter the current golf instruction “flavor of the month”!

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This is really a great forum. The replies here are way more than I could ask for. 
 

It’s sounds really basic. But I learned this as a senior in high school. And would basically learn the game with these fundamentals playing on the course sometimes 6-7 days a week in my youth years. Having the body hit the ball in the full swing really stuck with me. And when I go bad , I will go back to the basics 

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On 12/10/2021 at 6:47 AM, edingc said:

I think the important thing to remember is that feels are different for every person. There's a good Team TaylorMade video out there on YouTube with Morikawa and Tiger talking about the feels they have with their irons, and they're completely different but basically arriving at the same goal.

I can say that your feeling of the body being first to the ball is not a swing feel that would work well for me. While I agree that the body movement in the downswing is responsible for squaring the club face, I can't use that feel. It doesn't mean that it's wrong for you to feel that, but with my tendencies that would get me spinning out with my shoulders and my arms stuck behind me. I typically need to feel my hands being the main contributor to my downswing, not to flip at the ball, but to feel like my hands and arms are accelerating off my chest. But I have no issue with getting my hips open enough even without feeling like I do anything with the hips or body.

image.png.c7585c160a5c912aa3c36b21dfa9cd68.png

Based on your posts I assume you would agree with me here - at the end of the day the ball doesn't care about how you arrived at impact. It only cares about conditions (i.e. path, face angle, dynamic lie/loft, speed) at the moment of impact. If you are getting the ball flight and results that you want, then great! Whatever you're doing is working. 

By looking at your pic. That still shot looks like a perfect position. I can’t imagine how you would do bad with that

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  • 1 month later...

Only had time for 6 round this year. And went back to using my 1965 hogan irons with original shafts for this round. Was happy with my 5 th round. Should’ve been lower.But focused more on fitness than golfing this year. 
 

I just stick what has worked now for 4 decades. Simple and effective 

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