HZRDUS guidance, advice, experience...?

[therod]

I had a fitting yesterday at the Indy PGA Superstore. I had hit a few drivers there before Thanksgiving on my own, but went back in yesterday for a scheduled fitting, which I had never done anywhere for any club. The info he gave me fascinated and surprised me, but that's why you get fitted. Skipping the 70-75 minutes of just hitting balls with different drivers, trying different shafts, and changing weight configurations, what he told me was that I needed to use a stronger shaft. The shaft in my F9 is a black ProLaunch that Grafalloy co-designed with the guys from Golfworks. What the fitter told me, due to the very aggressive move I make in the transition at the top of my backswing, is that I need to play a more stout shaft. I hit a Tensei and several HZRDUS shafts. I did a little online research just looking at the True Temper website to get some technical data and design perspective. I know the feel is completely different from a softer higher launching shaft. But for those of you that have played them, and since there are several options, which models in particular did you like?

[cjeffs12]

I also have a rather aggressive swing as well, so I have gotten along with Hzrdus pretty well. I think this is the first time my bag hasn't had a hzrdus shaft. I have always gone with the smoke black or now RDX black, and I enjoyed it and hit it well. I have Tensei in the bag, and there is more feel in the shaft compared to the hzrdus, but not a whippy feel just a smooth feel. Both are popular and imo great shafts. 

[therod]

The interesting thing was, at the fitting hitting a HZRDUS (black I believe) is that I was hitting a fade. I only hit fades with my current equipment when I try to or make a really bad swing. So to see a fade on the launch monitor on a good swing was surprising to say the least. I had looked the a HZRDUS red a few years ago. I looked at the version that was all red, not black with red lettering because I thought it would stand out a bit and look good. I'm obviously re-visiting that thought. But I am open to all options. Even those that aren't the HZRDUS shaft. He also had me hit a Tensei shaft, but the HZRDUS numbers were just a little better.

Edited December 23, 2021 by therod
misspelled words

[RickyBobby_PR]

I hate the hzrdus black and the smoke black even though I have an aggressive transition. The rdx black feels much better.

Ive been fit to the hzrdus yellow several times and the smoke yellow feels slightly better. The rdx blue which is the replacement for the yellow is a much better feel and I like it in the sim2.

I played the hzrdus green in the sim max and was surprised how for its design it felt better than the black and gave me a better ball flight over the black. Didn’t perform better than the yellow for me.

What you had isn’t a fitting. It was a guy that swapped shafts and heads and gave you some information. If he didn’t tell you exactly what shaft to play then it was a waste of a fitting imo.  Nobody here can tell you what shaft to play either. It’s quite possible that an evenflow balck or white would work for you.

Find a better fitter and one that when you walk away from it you have confidence in what you were fit to and don’t need to get opinions from strangers that haven’t seen your swing, your launch monitor numbers or your ball flight.

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, therod said:

The interesting thing was, at the fitting hitting a HZRDUS (black I believe) is that I was hitting a fade. I only hit fades with my current equipment when I try to or make a really bad swing. So to see a fade on the launch monitor on a good swing was surprising to say the least. I had looked the a HZRDUS red a few years ago. I looked at the version that was all red, not black with red lettering because I thought it would stand out a bit and look good. I'm obviously re-visiting that thought. But I am open to all options. Even those that aren't the HZRDUS shaft. He also had me hit a Tensei shaft, but the HZRDUS numbers were just a little better.

The hzrdus black is a very stout low launch low spin shaft and very hard to turn over. It was the one knock the pga tour pros had about the black. The red is a hzrdus black with a softer tip that allowed the pros to turn the ball over

[therod]

He commented to me at the end when we were discussing numbers that he has never seen anyone pull as hard at the top of the backswing as I do. He thinks that's why I hit a constant draw. If I go to a more stout shaft, the draw might disappear. Hitting the HZRDUS on the launch monitor, I hit nothing but fades. I believe the shaft I hit was a standard black HZRDUS, but I can't be completely sure. I have looked before at the red HZRDUS, going back to the original red shaft that was red with gray lettering, not black with red lettering. I didn't really feel like I load the club enough to warrant the need for a HZRDUS, but compared to my current ProLaunch, it certainly took the hook away. A white Evenflow might be more intriguing to me than a HZRDUS. I'd even be tempted to try a black Evenflow. He also commented that with my swing speed and the way I load the shaft, playing a soft X-stiff or tipping a stiff might work just as well. It's at the opposite end of the spectrum, but I also have a red Evenflow sitting on my work bench. I'd be tempted to tip it 1/2" just to try that since I already have it.

[RickyBobby_PR]

31 minutes ago, therod said:

He commented to me at the end when we were discussing numbers that he has never seen anyone pull as hard at the top of the backswing as I do. He thinks that's why I hit a constant draw. If I go to a more stout shaft, the draw might disappear. Hitting the HZRDUS on the launch monitor, I hit nothing but fades. I believe the shaft I hit was a standard black HZRDUS, but I can't be completely sure. I have looked before at the red HZRDUS, going back to the original red shaft that was red with gray lettering, not black with red lettering. I didn't really feel like I load the club enough to warrant the need for a HZRDUS, but compared to my current ProLaunch, it certainly took the hook away. A white Evenflow might be more intriguing to me than a HZRDUS. I'd even be tempted to try a black Evenflow. He also commented that with my swing speed and the way I load the shaft, playing a soft X-stiff or tipping a stiff might work just as well. It's at the opposite end of the spectrum, but I also have a red Evenflow sitting on my work bench. I'd be tempted to tip it 1/2" just to try that since I already have it.

There’s way to much guessing in this post between what he tells you. Flex has no standard in the industry so saying play a soft x flex or tipping a stiff means nothing without saying what x stiff shaft to play or what stiff shaft to tip.

Basing a choice purely on the ball flight being a fade or taking a hook away without looking at the actual launch numbers could set you up for failure by not having enough launch or spin to keep ball in the air and being penalized because of it.

It doesn’t matter if you had the red shaft with grey letter or the black shaft with red letters they are the same hzrdus red. The black shafts for both the yellow and red were done for the tour pros because they didn’t like the red or yellow shafts.

You need to go to a better fitter and find out exactly what works from you. The hzrdus line will feel different than the evenflow especially the black or red vs the ef white or black.  It’s possible the new hzrdus rdx red or green would be a fit too.

Maybe a Mitsubishi Av raw white works better for you or a ust proforce or their Lin-a Purple or one of the new m40x shafts they had. Maybe a Diamana whiteboard or a heavy blueboard.

 

[RollingGreens]

11 hours ago, therod said:

I had a fitting yesterday at the Indy PGA Superstore. I had hit a few drivers there before Thanksgiving on my own, but went back in yesterday for a scheduled fitting, which I had never done anywhere for any club. The info he gave me fascinated and surprised me, but that's why you get fitted. Skipping the 70-75 minutes of just hitting balls with different drivers, trying different shafts, and changing weight configurations, what he told me was that I needed to use a stronger shaft. The shaft in my F9 is a black ProLaunch that Grafalloy co-designed with the guys from Golfworks. What the fitter told me, due to the very aggressive move I make in the transition at the top of my backswing, is that I need to play a more stout shaft. I hit a Tensei and several HZRDUS shafts. I did a little online research just looking at the True Temper website to get some technical data and design perspective. I know the feel is completely different from a softer higher launching shaft. But for those of you that have played them, and since there are several options, which models in particular did you like?

I had the hzrdus black 6.0 is a ts3. Not a big fan as it felt like a telephone pole. 

[Headhammer]

I also have a "Very" aggressive move and was recommended the HZRDUS Smoke Yellow shaft in my driver. It is much more stiff than the stock stiff shaft that came in my old Callaway driver. I would say I have more control, if that's even possible with a driver, but my shot trajectory has changed from mid-high to low. I now hit everything on a straight rope. 

[therod]

I purchased a white Evenflow and am considering a black Evenflow to try as well. I'm game for trying different shafts, and I can find them fairly inexpensive online. I'm going to Tucson in 3-4 weeks to play 4-5 rounds with some friends and as long as they're ready by then, I'll try any shaft.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Smoke green question. Does the TX version have more feel than the 6.5? I know there is a profile difference but does that come down to a feel of stiffness difference? I liked the feel of a 60g 6.5 but if I can get more feel from a TX that’d be great. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

Smoke green question. Does the TX version have more feel than the 6.5? I know there is a profile difference but does that come down to a feel of stiffness difference? I liked the feel of a 60g 6.5 but if I can get more feel from a TX that’d be great. 

Feel is going to be unique to each person. There no way for anyone to say that one shaft will feel better worse because what feels good to that golfer might not feel good to another. I hate the feel of the black and love the feel of the green. There roughly .5 difference in torque with the black being higher and the tips being different.

The green TX from what I remember is really mid section stiff. How that translates to feel for each person compared to the non tx version will vary. For me the tx is a very stiff shaft and I hated it worse than the black when I hit it on a buddy’s shaft when it came out. 
 

I’ve said it before but save yourself the money and headache of blind testing and get fit. 

 

[MisterT]

A black HZRDUS shaft with red lettering is a HZRDUS Red, not HZRDUS Black, shaft. If your “fitter” didn’t know or couldn’t tell you this, then you definitely need to go elsewhere for a real fitting.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, MisterT said:

A black HZRDUS shaft with red lettering is a HZRDUS Red, not HZRDUS Black, shaft. If your “fitter” didn’t know or couldn’t tell you this, then you definitely need to go elsewhere for a real fitting.

If you re-read what he posted he tried the red a few years back not at his fitting. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

On 12/25/2021 at 10:59 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Feel is going to be unique to each person. There no way for anyone to say that one shaft will feel better worse because what feels good to that golfer might not feel good to another. I hate the feel of the black and love the feel of the green. There roughly .5 difference in torque with the black being higher and the tips being different.

The green TX from what I remember is really mid section stiff. How that translates to feel for each person compared to the non tx version will vary. For me the tx is a very stiff shaft and I hated it worse than the black when I hit it on a buddy’s shaft when it came out. 
 

I’ve said it before but save yourself the money and headache of blind testing and get fit. 

 

Thanks. I know what I like now that I have tested a bunch and know what works for me. Just debating blue vs green in same weight class and diff flexes (green in 6.0 and blue in 6.5)

[pakman92]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:20 AM, therod said:

play a more stout shaft.

What is "stout" exactly?  Does that mean stiffer? heavier?  less torque? higher bend point (tip stiff)? I never quite understood what 'stout' means when people use that.  What dis the fitter mean in this context?   

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

Thanks. I know what I like now that I have tested a bunch and know what works for me. Just debating blue vs green in same weight class and diff flexes (green in 6.0 and blue in 6.5)

That’s two different stiffness and two different profiles. Both are considered counterbalanced but done differently. 
 

Even though they changed the colors the blue is the new generation yellow. It’s going to play a little stiffer in the tip than the green and a lot stiffer in the tip. The mid section of the blue is going to be softer.  Debating between those two isn’t where one who knows what they like would be. 
 

From what I’ve seen in testing both in TaylorMade and titleist heads the results are noticeable enough.  The green when paired with an already lower spin head is going to drop spin, launch and overall ball flight. The blue wasnt as noticeable of a difference

9 hours ago, pakman92 said:

What is "stout" exactly?  Does that mean stiffer? heavier?  less torque? higher bend point (tip stiff)? I never quite understood what 'stout' means when people use that.  What dis the fitter mean in this context?   

Stout is typically referred to as how stiff/boardy a shaft feels.  
 

While it can sometimes be influence by torque because that’s used for feel in a design but the hzrdus black for example has a torque of 3.2 and the smoke green has a torque of 3.0 the black feels a lot more stout.  But also remember when it comes to torque that is only significant to the manufacturer and their lineup. Different brands use different machines and also different points to measure the torque, so just like with shaft stiffness not having a standard in golf the same applies to torque.  The EI profile is going to play a big role in how a shaft feels as is the golfers swing. A golfer who pulls on the shaft and is aggressive in transition will feel something different than someone who isn’t as aggressive and doesn’t pull in the shaft. 

[McGolf]

The smoke line up should be a bit softer feeling than the regular black at the same flex.

The RDX is the new versions, recently release was the green, which needs a long driver like swing, and the RED which might just fit what you are looking for. Their first mid launch in a long while. it still will have an aggressive profile  with a soft mid section.

[pakman92]

@McGolf It's so cool to have a renowned fitter in the forum!  How does Smoke IM10 fit in the whole line up?  Callaway is putting them on Epic Max drivers.

[HDTVMAN]

Getting fitted at a big box store is no different than going into McDonald's, because most fitters are "hamburger fitters". No experience, no training. Go to a local pro at a real country club or a fitter like Club Champion. Do you really want to be fitted by someone making $9.50/hr? Think about it.

[cnosil]

21 minutes ago, HDTVMAN said:

Getting fitted at a big box store is no different than going into McDonald's, because most fitters are "hamburger fitters". No experience, no training. Go to a local pro at a real country club or a fitter like Club Champion. Do you really want to be fitted by someone making $9.50/hr? Think about it.

Looks like PGA Tour superstore employees make more than $9.50 an hour

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-PGA-Superstore-Salary-by-State

 

[GaDawg]

28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Looks like PGA Tour superstore employees make more than $9.50 an hour

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-PGA-Superstore-Salary-by-State

 

I would also say that based on the reviews I have seen about Club Champion, a golfer would do pretty good by getting fit at the PGA Superstore. My last fitting was at a PGA Superstore and it was excellent!

[tiger168]

Coming from GD AD-DI and BB. I had the pleasure of fitting a HZRDUS on my Callaway Epic Flash LS 3 wood. By fitting I meant using my own NEVO and R10 because I just don't have good experiences with professional stores and fitters out there. I don't want to name the stores and pros that I've went to, in the years. They just don't work for me. Real fitting takes time and patience and resources that can get you different shafts to "try" before "buy". I haven't gone as far as TXG, they are just too far in Canada that require a lot of time and travel and luggage (my clubs).  Maybe one day I will.

Back to HZRDUS, I fitted a black, because it is just a smooth stable and end the balance to hold the Epic Flash LS. As this particular head is heavier than my TSi3 3W or Ping G410 LS 3W. Yes, I am crazy stupid to have them all. My experiences tells my that I must have different clubs to compare and to generate different feels. Sometimes the best feel shaft/clubs do not give you the best results. That's why fitting methods today don't work for most of the golfers.besides, summer and winter, you are swinging differently and your courses behave differently, so I swap shaft/clubs due to different conditions. Where I live, the summer gets to 100℉ and winter gets to 37℉, like this week. And I am playing tomorrow at around 37℉. Those who knows, the GD AD-DI  is completely different than the HZRDUS, but, that's the beauty of it. When I'm using the HZRDUS, I adjust the 3W to a higher loft setting due to its lower launch profile, the result is a wind penetrating launch that beats the AD-DI in that condition. But, it is hard on your wrist, very harsh on your wrist/shoulder. So if you are 60+ with winter arthritis, you will play HZRDUS in pain. Thus, explained that the original post that the golfer has a violent transition that the fitter recommended to use the HZRDUS to "smooth it out". As the most violent transition golfers, or fast tempo golfers will "feel" the HZRDUS more than the smooth swinger. By "feel" I meant these golfers won't find the HZRDUS "whippy/soft/unstable", these vocabularies will never go with the HZRDUS. Since I don't really use the 3W more than 2 or 3 times per round, I use the 3W more when I am on the golf range or tuning new shaft or launch monitors. But, the results of HZRDUS are that it has less hook/slice than any other shaft/head combo, and if you have the right launch number the distance is never a problem. One side effect that I observed is that the sounds are a pitch lower compares to other shaft/head combo. The TSi3/HZRDUS combo sounded very unwelcome for example. So if you are sensitive to the ball impact sounds, this is something you might want to consider. One more thing that I notice, the same HZRDUS shafts that I have, when I measure the weight and flex, the deviations are more than 15~25%. So each HZRDUS might be unique, thus hand rolled versus none hand rolled, might also present another parameter to consider, I guess.

It really takes patience and well thought out process for a golfer to feel confident after the "fitting" process, to put that club in the bag with absolutely zero doubt when you pull it out later to use it.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Did some quick goggling and couldn’t find a chart that compared the smoke line up with the black and blue rdx also couldn’t find one that had just the blue and black rdx either but came across the smoke series.  In the black and yellow they softened up the shafts a bit from the original line up.  With the rdx blue (the new yellow) and rdx black (new black) they made some changes with the materials used but kept the overall design the same with the blue having a stout butt and tip section with a soft middle just like the previous versions of the yellow.

Heres the chart for the smoke versions and you can see how different the blue (using the yellow as the example) and green are. The green like the black is a lot more linear than the yellow, even though because of balance point The green would be considered counterbalanced by some.

 

[McGolf]

23 hours ago, pakman92 said:

@McGolf It's so cool to have a renowned fitter in the forum!  How does Smoke IM10 fit in the whole line up?  Callaway is putting them on Epic Max drivers.

IMO opinion the SMOKE IM10 is better feeling for the stronger golfer. It is a different assembly or use of graphite than the previous models. Again, for me is it a spin killer of a shaft. that can produce a mid ball flight and is an excellent choice for not only the max model but the LS model too.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Did some quick goggling and couldn’t find a chart that compared the smoke line up with the black and blue rdx also couldn’t find one that had just the blue and black rdx either but came across the smoke series.  In the black and yellow they softened up the shafts a bit from the original line up.  With the rdx blue (the new yellow) and rdx black (new black) they made some changes with the materials used but kept the overall design the same with the blue having a stout butt and tip section with a soft middle just like the previous versions of the yellow.

Heres the chart for the smoke versions and you can see how different the blue (using the yellow as the example) and green are. The green like the black is a lot more linear than the yellow, even though because of balance point The green would be considered counterbalanced by some.

 

What is interesting is I hate the feel of the black rdx. I feel a small kick at the end making the shaft feel loose. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

22 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

What is interesting is I hate the feel of the black rdx. I feel a small kick at the end making the shaft feel loose. 

Which is why you can’t base purchases off what other people feel or how shafts compare to other shafts for people. All of our swings are different even for those with the same swing speed and type of swing. 

I could play the rdx black in a high loft and higher spin head and be fine but there’s no way the smoke black or original black work for my swing.  The green feels better than all the blacks to me and would never go in a driver. I’m not a fan of the black in the hybrid either.

The green and rdx black while I can play them and not have any issues on the course they definitely aren’t optimal for me. The yellow has been a shaft that’s fit me since it came out and I’ve had it in Ping and tm, I don’t like the lack of feel in the yellow which is where the blue comes in, I get similar performance to the yellow with a better feel

The good thing about the rdx line and the smoke green is they are pretty common stock shafts in pretty much every brand. You could find a place like pga superstore, golf galaxy or 2ndswing and pick a head or two and swing the shafts you are interested in and compare. But there’s no way anyone on here will be able to tell you what one is going to do for your swing or how it will feel for you.

[pakman92]

1 hour ago, McGolf said:

IMO opinion the SMOKE IM10 is better feeling for the stronger golfer. It is a different assembly or use of graphite than the previous models. Again, for me is it a spin killer of a shaft. that can produce a mid ball flight and is an excellent choice for not only the max model but the LS model too.

I've tried the IM10 mid 50 model with limited success.  I wasn't getting any more ball speed even though it's 10 gram lighter than my current shaft, Aldila Rogue white 130.  Similar carry but wider dispersion.  I may give up on it.  I've never tried a shaft as light as IM10 mid 50 (56grams).   I couldn't control it very well.

[McGolf]

try the 60 gram, if your swinging the hzdus line SS isnt a concern in most cases

[mattpobrien4]

Yes, PGA Tour superstore employees are actually rich, 228$ per day they are making