Poll: What’s Your #1 Weakness Putting?

[Middler]

If you had to pick one of three. I don’t want to include other or lesser options (if you do, initiate another poll).

I’m contemplating a putter fitting, but I read greens well enough and my alignment is usually decent, so I don’t see what a fitting would change. Pace is my biggest challenge, but I miss both long and short - so I don’t see how my putter is the source of pace problems.

[Muckinfiddle]

I'm a dyslexic green reader. Breaks opposite of what I think too often.

[Kenny B]

IF I had to pick one, it's green reading.  Not an issue when playing my course because I know the breaks.  It becomes an issue where traveling to unfamiliar courses.  I can see a "break", when none is there or the putt goes the opposite way.  Very tough playing mountain courses because of the overall slope of the terrain; Kapalua is an extreme example .  I'm going to Palm Springs next month, and putting will be difficult factoring in "everything breaks towards Indio" effect... the Salton Sea is past Indio and 230 feet below sea level.

[Middler]

5 hours ago, Kenny B said:

IF I had to pick one, it's green reading.  Not an issue when playing my course because I know the breaks.  It becomes an issue where traveling to unfamiliar courses.  I can see a "break", when none is there or the putt goes the opposite way.  Very tough playing mountain courses because of the overall slope of the terrain; Kapalua is an extreme example .  I'm going to Palm Springs next month, and putting will be difficult factoring in "everything breaks towards Indio" effect... the Salton Sea is past Indio and 230 feet below sea level.

You didn’t ask so FWIW, what helps me with green reading:

• I look from far away first, while walking up to the green. What’s the overall slope of the green complex, might override what I see close up.
• I look from the side first (uphill, downhill), then behind the ball.
• Once I’ve decided what I think I see, I will stand sideways (like addressing a putt) at several points along the line to see what my feet tell me. Are my toes inclined up, down or level? When there’s a conflict between my eyes and my feet, my feet are typically right. [I assume most people trust their eyes more than there feet like me, since no one else I know uses their feet to read putts]
• If after all that I think it’s a 1 foot break, I play for 2 feet - I always underestimate breaks in my head by about half, always have. And most amateurs I know miss low far more often than high.

These ideas are not be common to all, but I’ve known other players that deploy some of the above. Not planned, but I think for me the above are in order of importance from least to most.

[cnosil]

20 minutes ago, Middler said:

If you had to pick one of three. I don’t want to include other or lesser options (if you do, initiate another poll).

I’m contemplating a putter fitting, but I read greens well enough and my alignment is usually decent, so I don’t see what a fitting would change. Pace is my biggest challenge, not chronically long or short, I miss both ways - or I’d think a fitting would be in order.

Just like our full swing clubs we have a dispersion pattern with our putters.   I personally think the answer to your question depends on where you are in your putting journey.  First I would say starting putts on your intended line,  this involves finding the putter that fits the rotational and path for your stroke.   Speed and read are more difficult to work on without face control since speed control is partially driven by delivering a fairly consistent face angle.   Green reading is a skill built over time through experience or a class like aimpoint.  However, if you can't control the face and/or the pace,  green reading is almost impossible to master since you don't know if your miss was the face, pace, or read.   Speed is probably what I would focus on most.  There are multiple lines for every putt which is based on speed.   As mentioned speed control is influenced by face angle and also delivering the correct putter loft.  

Based on what you said,  if you were facing a 30' straight putt your dispersion would be wide in the short/long distance and pretty narrow in the left/right direction.   You can narrow the short/long distance through practice and/or verifying that the putter is correctly fit.  I have found that when I am doing most wanted testing is that my dispersion pattern will vary based on the putter I am using.   Some I pull, some I push, some I leave short, some long and some are all over the place.  

If you perform well under pressure,  a fitting may show that your putter is perfectly fine.  Some people would say that particular fitting provided no value since nothing changed;  others think it is great because it provides independent confirmation.  Some people don't even want to know the numbers and it would allow doubt to creep in.   

For the poll answer:  For me,  I do drills that show that I have pretty good face control so my "weakness" is distance control especially as distances get longer simply because it is harder to practice putts over 20'.  

 

 

 

 

[revkev]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

If you had to pick one of three. I don’t want to include other or lesser options (if you do, initiate another poll).

I’m contemplating a putter fitting, but I read greens well enough and my alignment is usually decent, so I don’t see what a fitting would change. Pace is my biggest challenge, but I miss both long and short - so I don’t see how my putter is the source of pace problems.

Actually it more than likely is - if your alignment and reading are good you may have the wrong putter or length for your stroke.

 

 

[DaveP043]

My weakness is distance control, and I largely blame my own lack of practice effort.  For those who have trouble reading greens, I can strongly recommend taking an Aimpoint Express clinic.  Using Aimpoint has helped me not only when I play away from home, but has even helped me at my home club, where I've been playing for about 30 years.  

[Kenny B]

4 hours ago, Middler said:

You didn’t ask so FWIW, what helps me with green reading:

• I look from far away first, while walking up to the green. What’s the overall slope of the green, might override what I see close up.
• I look from the side first (uphill, downhill), then behind the ball.
• Once I’ve decided what I think I see, I will stand sideways (like addressing a putt) at several points along the line to see what my feet tell me. Are my toes inclined up, down or level? When there’s a conflict between my eyes and my feet, my feet are typically right. [I think most people trust their eyes more than I do]
• If after all that I think it’s a 1 foot break, I play for 2 feet - I always underestimate breaks in my head by about half, always have.

These ideas are not be common to all, but I’ve known other players that deploy some of the above. It’s by chance, but I think for me the above are in order of importance from least to most.

I'm pretty good at reading putts except when it comes to factors that I don't usually deal with; specifically mountain/terrain slope and bermuda grass.  Given both of those factors I end up putting and hoping.  I'll figure it out in Palm Springs... about the time I leave for home!!  

[Muckinfiddle]

I think a lot of my green reading issues come from not doing what I should do when it's my turn to putt, due to playing quick to keep the game going faster. I always feel like I'm slowing people down when I'm doing anything but reading the putt from behind the ball. I know when I take a little time to walk the line over a putt I tend to do better but I often get into the habit of just a quick read and make the putt or should I say miss the putt.

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, Muckinfiddle said:

I think a lot of my green reading issues come from not doing what I should do when it's my turn to putt, due to playing quick to keep the game going faster. I always feel like I'm slowing people down when I'm doing anything but reading the putt from behind the ball. I know when I take a little time to walk the line over a putt I tend to do better but I often get into the habit of just a quick read and make the putt or should I say miss the putt.

start your read when you are approaching the green;  move to the side of the putt while others are putting.  Learn aimpoint express which is a tour proven approach to reading putts.  Unless you wait until it is your turn to putt to start the green reading process it doesn't take that long.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

None of those.

[2puttbogey]

Pace is still my biggest putting weakness, but it’s getting better. What has helped is pacing them off. Instead of just guessing I know how far the putt actually is. I’ll do it as I walk to my ball, as other players are reading their putt or chipping so it doesn’t take any extra time on the green. 

[Middler]

12 hours ago, 2puttbogey said:

Pace is still my biggest putting weakness, but it’s getting better. What has helped is pacing them off. Instead of just guessing I know how far the putt actually is. I’ll do it as I walk to my ball, as other players are reading their putt or chipping so it doesn’t take any extra time on the green. 

I do that with greenside chips & pitches whenever time allows (without others waiting), and it’s helped me considerably. Not sure how I’d apply it to putting, but I’ll think about it.

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

I do that with greenside chips & pitches whenever time allows (without others waiting), and it’s helped me considerably. Not sure how I’d apply it to putting, but I’ll think about it.

I walk off putts as well.  I know how big of a stroke to make to roll the ball a particular distance.  You walk it off, assess if it is up or down hill and then make the stroke you think will roll the ball the calculated distance

[Haro]

Distance control for long  uphill putts on two tier or severe grade uphill putts I still struggle with these. I seen pros who putt these by putting more energy in their stroke by “hitting “ then go back to their usual smooth rolling stroke on other putts Can’t seem to get a feel for that yet 

[Middler]

2 hours ago, Haro said:

Distance control for long  uphill putts on two tier or severe grade uphill putts I still struggle with these. I seen pros who putt these by putting more energy in their stroke by “hitting “ then go back to their usual smooth rolling stroke on other putts Can’t seem to get a feel for that yet 

Not suggesting you're wrong by any means. But putting more energy into my stroke is always hit or miss on pace and alignment for me. For me lengthening or shortening my stroke, uphill and downhill respectively, works much better. FWIW

[2puttbogey]

6 hours ago, Middler said:

I do that with greenside chips & pitches whenever time allows (without others waiting), and it’s helped me considerably. Not sure how I’d apply it to putting, but I’ll think about it.

I do it for chips as well. For putting I calibrate on the practice green by hitting a couple putts the length of my putter(mallet) and pace them off to get an idea of how far that will go then it’s up to me to adjust for the slopes. I’ve found it better than guessing the distance.

[Muckinfiddle]

22 hours ago, cnosil said:

start your read when you are approaching the green;  move to the side of the putt while others are putting.  Learn aimpoint express which is a tour proven approach to reading putts.  Unless you wait until it is your turn to putt to start the green reading process it doesn't take that long.  

I do start reading the green if possible from the fairway. Unfortunately aimpoint Express classes are not available remotely close to my location. When I do make more putts I tend to do some of Aimpoint Express feet based green reading.

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, Haro said:

Distance control for long  uphill putts on two tier or severe grade uphill putts I still struggle with these. I seen pros who putt these by putting more energy in their stroke by “hitting “ then go back to their usual smooth rolling stroke on other putts Can’t seem to get a feel for that yet 

I walk off the distance of all the putts and then for severe slopes I measure the length of the slope and add or subtract that distance to the overall putt length.  For smoother consistent slopes I just rely on experience.  

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, Muckinfiddle said:

I do start reading the green if possible from the fairway. Unfortunately aimpoint Express classes are not available remotely close to my location. When I do make more putts I tend to do some of Aimpoint Express feet based green reading.

you can buy the video version of the training.   

[pakman92]

I picked reading breaks/lines.   However, my biggest problem is wave of negative thoughts with 3 footers.  

[PMookie]

I chose pace. After my latest Edel fitting, I’ve gotten better at this because my putter fits me better for my stroke, and sometimes I do believe that SOME of the issues I have with pace are that I play 2 courses whose conditions can vary greatly round-to-round. One week the greens can be hairy, the next they’re fast, then I get the variations amongst the greens due to dead spots, etc. My pace has improved this year, but it’s still my weakest part of putting.

[chisag]

... I am not surprised many chose "pace". For most, pace is the last thing they look at or at least contemplate line over pace. How many time have we heard "I fell in love with the line and forgot the pace" while most of us have never heard "I fell in love with the pace and forgot the line. So I offer a challenge to those struggling with pace:

Practice pace only ignoring the line. Take a look at a putt on the practice green and think "Breaks a little right" then ignore that line, a starting point or a spot to roll the ball over. Just concentrate on the speed to get the ball to stop around the hole and let your subconscious take care of the line it has already seen and computed. One putt per hole and if possible stay in that one spot and all the ball to as many holes as you can just concentrating on speed control. After becoming comfortable with the drill, many of you will be surprised at how close you get the putt. I imagine more than a few of you have started your putting warm up before a round, dropped some balls to just get your muscles moving and get comfortable with your stroke and hit the ball with no thoughts of making it but either do roll it in or come very close. So even though making the putt is not your goal and you didn't consider the line or speed of the green, you took all that in when you looked at the hole and you executed that putt well because you kept it simple. 

... I have said this many times but the brain is an amazing computer and once you look at your putt it takes almost no time at all for your organic computer to calculate the line to the hole. If I instruct my brain to make the ball rolling into the hole that will be it's goal and getting the pace right is a key ingredient. If I tell it to roll over a spot that will be it's goal and the correct speed to get the ball to hole is no longer part of the equation. The brain can use subconscious information it has gathered but it can only concentrate on one thing at a time. If you are looking at a 20 footer and thinking about the speed and the line, the brain must go back and forth rapidly trying to condense 2 things close together but still only one at a time and the chancers are better than not that the system will experience an over load. 

... Next time you play take a look at your line after briefly contemplating the high side of the green were the water runs off, what kind of slope you face and speed of the green to calculate the break ... and then ignore all of that and just concentrate on the speed. Just judging the speed is easy for any player but becomes much more difficult when it is the last thing on their list after hitting a spot, getting the line right, working about the slope and of course really needing to make the putt for a birdie or par or save a bogie which all adds stress to your internal computer. If you ignore all of that and just concentrate on speed you will find it much easier than you think. 

[Haro]

20 hours ago, cnosil said:

I walk off the distance of all the putts and then for severe slopes I measure the length of the slope and add or subtract that distance to the overall putt length.  For smoother consistent slopes I just rely on experience.  

Can you give me an example of the this? Using numbers 
Say it’s a uphill putt and there a slope then a ridge then flatten out level to the cup 

[cnosil]

5 hours ago, Haro said:

Can you give me an example of the this? Using numbers 
Say it’s a uphill putt and there a slope then a ridge then flatten out level to the cup 

if the length of the putt is 40 feet.    In the middle of the putt there is a significant slope you have to go up.  From the bottom of the slope to the top is 5 feet.   I make a stroke to roll the ball 45 feet. 

[Kenny B]

11 hours ago, Haro said:

Can you give me an example of the this? Using numbers 
Say it’s a uphill putt and there a slope then a ridge then flatten out level to the cup 

 

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

if the length of the putt is 40 feet.    In the middle of the putt there is a significant slope you have to go up.  From the bottom of the slope to the top is 5 feet.   I make a stroke to roll the ball 45 feet. 

We have 5 greens on our course exactly like that... and sometimes we are also putting the other way where the ball has to almost stop at the crest before rolling down the slope if you want to get close to the hole... can't leave that one short!!!!!

I can't give numbers because there are many factors to consider.  It depends on where in the putt the ridge is located and how steep the slope is.  I find it more difficult when the ridge is closer to the hole than to the ball because the ball is losing speed and the slope will have a greater effect.  It's really a matter of course familiarity with green speed.  Since I don't look at the ball when I putt, my focus is on where I want the ball to go up the slope and the effort needed to get it there... experience!  It's like how much effort to put into a 25 foot jump shot vs. a 15 foot jump shot; you just feel the shot.  Even if you miss, you likely didn't put up an air ball or over the backboard.  

[Shapotomous]

13 hours ago, cnosil said:

if the length of the putt is 40 feet.    In the middle of the putt there is a significant slope you have to go up.  From the bottom of the slope to the top is 5 feet.   I make a stroke to roll the ball 45 feet. 

This is a good idea ....I'm going to have to try this out.  

[cnosil]

10 hours ago, Kenny B said:

 

We have 5 greens on our course exactly like that... and sometimes we are also putting the other way where the ball has to almost stop at the crest before rolling down the slope if you want to get close to the hole... can't leave that one short!!!!!

I can't give numbers because there are many factors to consider.  It depends on where in the putt the ridge is located and how steep the slope is.  I find it more difficult when the ridge is closer to the hole than to the ball because the ball is losing speed and the slope will have a greater effect.  It's really a matter of course familiarity with green speed.  Since I don't look at the ball when I putt, my focus is on where I want the ball to go up the slope and the effort needed to get it there... experience!  It's like how much effort to put into a 25 foot jump shot vs. a 15 foot jump shot; you just feel the shot.  Even if you miss, you likely didn't put up an air ball or over the backboard.  

Obviously there are a lot of factors and sometimes the situation will not allow you to get the ball close.  In those situations,  the goal would be to get it to the edge and let gravity take over.   Experience is definitely the key;  some call it feel.    My experience using the approach I described works well for both up and down slopes; at least for me

 

[Kenny B]

8 hours ago, cnosil said:

Obviously there are a lot of factors and sometimes the situation will not allow you to get the ball close.  In those situations,  the goal would be to get it to the edge and let gravity take over.   Experience is definitely the key;  some call it feel.    My experience using the approach I described works well for both up and down slopes; at least for me

 

All of our steep slopes do not have much green on the lower slope.  Going down the slope, I putt to just get the ball over the ridge; more than that and the ball is likely to roll off the green.  Less than that... and the next putt is likely to go off the green.

Going uphill, the hole can be close after the ridge, maybe 25 foot putt... most difficult.  Speed is lost quickly after contact; I usually feel like double the effort of a 25 foot putt will make sure I make it up the slope and likely past the pin.  The hole can be up to 40 feet away from the ridge... or maybe 50-60 feet total .  Since I will impart more ball speed initially on this length putt, the slope has less effect since it's close to the ball.  I will only impart a little more than double the effort of the 25 foot putt, mostly because after the ball crests the ridge, all of our greens are slightly downhill.  If it were uphill after the crest, I would adjust the effort accordingly.  

Hope this makes sense.  Writing this is difficult, because I have never put my thought process into words before.  Yes, it's experience.  I feel the effort needed for the putt at hand.  I don't 3-putt much, but if I do, these putts are when it can happen.

[chisag]

10 hours ago, cnosil said:

Obviously there are a lot of factors and sometimes the situation will not allow you to get the ball close.  In those situations,  the goal would be to get it to the edge and let gravity take over.   Experience is definitely the key;  some call it feel.    My experience using the approach I described works well for both up and down slopes; at least for me

 

... I have been thinking about feel ever since you asked me about it and thought it was a great question. If you picture a trash can about 10 feet in front of you and tilted slightly away from you, and you have to toss a golf ball underhanded so it carries over the front but still lands in the garbage can, you would do that with feel. You don't pick a spot in the air that you want the ball to go through or have a clock for how far back to take your arm ... you just intrinsically know you need to loft it high enough to clear the front but with a steep enough decent to increase your odds of landing in the can. Too shallow and your odds of landing in the can are reduced exponentially. Tossed too high and it is more difficult to judge the distance. That is all feel and the same concept would be used to putt. This takes everything into account like uphill or downhill, faster or slower greens and of course break. Picture tossing a ball underhanded on the green the same way, trying to make the "putt" and that would be someone that putts by feel.