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Upcoming Most Wanted Driver Testing


fixyurdivot

MGS Most Wanted Driver  

321 members have voted

  1. 1. Which OEM's driver in current MGS driver testing has yielded the fastest ball speed for every tester so far?

    • Taylormade
      129
    • Titleist
      17
    • PING
      14
    • Callaway
      68
    • XXIO
      2
    • Mizuno
      10
    • Srixon
      4
    • PXG
      7
    • Cobra
      58
    • Tour Edge
      7
    • Honma
      2
    • Wilson
      0
    • Inesis
      0
    • Other
      3


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27 minutes ago, Bucky CC said:

In a perfect world the testing would also be double blind so there wouldn't be an pre-conceived notions about the driver the tester is being handed.  See a red face and know it's the new Stealth model?  I'm going to swing out of my shoes to see how fast these crazy ball speeds can really get.

 


we have talked about things like this.  I can’t speak for all testers, but I generally don’t know what driver I am hitting at any time.  Yes, there are exceptions, but I in good faith try and hit normal shots with all the clubs and not try harder or swing harder during a test.  I will probably do that after a session.   Also,. It would probably be beneficial to turn off the screen so we don’t see the results of each shot to minimize adjustments from shot to shot.  

40 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

I know that 15 shots can be enough to tell us if a driver just isn't working for us, but statisticians typically put 100 as the minimum number in a sample size to effectively root out sources of error and normalize the data. If a test is based on compiling statistical data, it should include more hits per tester per driver. While someone might start changing their swing after 10-15, by 100 they have achieved a good groove and that would help balance the data. If you are claiming a test is statistically sound, it needs more data. If MGS wants to take the claim as the industry standard for testing, they need to meet minimum requirements for statistical analysis. 

This isn’t a fitting session. Prior to starting our test, we are fit to each club by taking a couple of swings with a configuration to try and optimize.   For drivers it was 5 shots before switching to the next driver.  The goal is to see how we respond to the driver with minimal swing adjustments; if I hit 100 shots I’d learn how to hit the driver and get past the visual items that mess up my performance.  This test is attempting to look at how a driver performs across a variety of golfers(handicap, speed, age, etc) and determine which driver with minimal fitting works for the largest percentage of golfers. You are getting approximately 525 shots per driver for analysis.   it will not tell you specifically which is the best driver for you and your results may vary based on the factors I mentioned above.  

 

 IMO, if a player is trying to determine actual dispersion patterns they will see on the course,  you need to do what you say and hit a couple of hundred shots over a few weeks to pull your true dispersion pattern.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s meaningless. Unless you have the exact same swing as the person which is highly unlikely it’s just added data with no benefit. It would not only require each person to provide information about their swing that they may or may not know of but you would then need a lot of data points and for every shot. I haven’t looked at the data provided because of these reasons so not sure what’s on there, but face to path, path to target, contact point, along with all the typical information most of us ask for would need to be part of it. By time you dig thru all that one could have gone out and tested several drivers for themselves. Most could have done that before the report was even released 


 

No it isn't meaningless at all - that is simply your opinion. 

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

change of topic. Looking at the data page, and selecting the "accuracy & forgiveness" tab. I am looking at % straight and % playable.  both numbers are .xx

is our best guess that this is a formatting issue and they didn't move the decimal. I.E. if it says percent of straight shot is .72 % it really should just be read a 72%?

 

I would say yes.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Maybe I should have waited for this years test to come out.

I have a Cobra Air-X driver that will be arriving at my house the next day or so.

After looking at the test results I'm wondering if i should return it without even giving it a try being as the Air-X results on "this" test were quite bad

Edited by jswjr
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3 minutes ago, jswjr said:

Maybe I should have waited for this years test to come out.

I have a Cobra Air-X driver that will be arriving at my house the next day or so.

After looking at the test results I'm wondering if i should return it without even giving it a try being as the Air-X results on "this" test were quite bad

have you used the supplemental data sheet to check results for your similar swings? it fairs pretty good for some swing types.

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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6 minutes ago, jswjr said:

Maybe I should have waited for this years test to come out.

I have a Cobra Air-X driver that will be arriving at my house the next day or so.

After looking at the test results I'm wondering if i should return it without even giving it a try being as the Air-X results on "this" test were quite bad

Why did you purchase that driver?  Maybe it is the best driver for you.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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48 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I am not a statistician but saying each person needs to take a 100 swings with a club for it to be statistically relevant is just silly.  You are talking about taking the number of shots from 20,000 shots to 200,000 shots. 

They have 100 per driver.  35 testers hitting 10-15 shots with each meets a statistical relevance, because there are over 100 shots with an individual driver.  Technically at least 350 with each driver, so the requirement is met.  Just like when you look at a group of 100 tests and take a statistical analysis, should each student be required to take 100 tests?  Or is 100 tests valid?

Not 100% the same, but in no world is taking 100 swings with a driver more statistically relevant for me in a fitting than taking 5 or 6.  

In a year 100 drives vs 100 other drives in a comparison might be good analysis to see which you are better with in a strokes gained type of application, but I know whether I can hit good shots with a driver in two or three swings, this is what this tool can help with.  Knowing some basics to determine your starting point.

 

I have a Stealth that I cannot hit to save my life with any of the three shafts I have tried in it.  I also will be trying the Triple D Rogue and the Mizuno STZ-220.  Why?  This test gave me some results to look at those heads, the stealth I tried just because of hype and they happened to have one in U-Try in decently close specs for me.  I had tried all of last years releases already.

I think that comes down to the premise of the study. Are people hitting these shots to see what works for them, or to provide data for a study? 

I understand this is mostly a for fun study that should not be used to replace the need of a fitting. I just found it interesting the data set was so small. 

Taylormade M5 Driver

Cobra F9 3 Wood

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Iron

Srixon ZX7 7-PW

Taylormade MG2 Wedges 50/55/60

Taylormade Spider X Putter

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27 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

No it isn't meaningless at all - that is simply your opinion. 

My opinion is based on experience, learning fitting and club data and knowledge gained over the last 8 years or so if golf forums, along with studying the swing over the last 1.5 years or so.

I looked real quick at the data. There’s too much data missing in the report to even remotely make an educated choice for what one should buy just from head and loft perspective. I didn’t see any aoa, there’s no data for swing path, contact point, smash factor. There’s a range of 10mph or greater in some of the categories which is too big a gap to compare. 

Now add in the swing mechanics of the testers and not knowing if any have even a slight resemblance to one’s swing and you have no reference point to start with. 
 

If one wanted to compare how driver A performed for one group compared to another to see if things like ball speed differences, spin, etc similar to how comparing balls in the ball study perform that’s fine, but looking at the data to see what driver might perform for the person the data provides no value. It’s like when people come on here looking for what shaft to buy or what club or loft to buy. It’s a blind guess what would work
 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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15 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

I think that comes down to the premise of the study. Are people hitting these shots to see what works for them, or to provide data for a study? 

I understand this is mostly a for fun study that should not be used to replace the need of a fitting. I just found it interesting the data set was so small. 

Most player that purchase clubs don’t do fittings.  the overwhelming majority of players just buy off the rack The premise is to identify the OTR driver that works for the largest percentage of players.  The clubs can be “fit” to any provided no upcharge shaft; which is basically what would happen in a brick and mortar shop. For the general golfer on a golf forum they are more into equipment and understand that fittings help find the best driver and that the most wanted list may not indicate the best driver for them.  
 

can you explain/clarify your question?  The most wanted testers are there to hit shots with the clubs; driver in this case, to provide data for the most wanted test.   As an individual, I want to do my best with each club and a side benefit is I get to see what clubs might work best for me.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

My opinion is based on experience, learning fitting and club data and knowledge gained over the last 8 years or so if golf forums, along with studying the swing over the last 1.5 years or so.

I looked real quick at the data. There’s too much data missing in the report to even remotely make an educated choice for what one should buy just from head and loft perspective. I didn’t see any aoa, there’s no data for swing path, contact point, smash factor. There’s a range of 10mph or greater in some of the categories which is too big a gap to compare. 

Now add in the swing mechanics of the testers and not knowing if any have even a slight resemblance to one’s swing and you have no reference point to start with. 
 

If one wanted to compare how driver A performed for one group compared to another to see if things like ball speed differences, spin, etc similar to how comparing balls in the ball study perform that’s fine, but looking at the data to see what driver might perform for the person the data provides no value. It’s like when people come on here looking for what shaft to buy or what club or loft to buy. It’s a blind guess what would work
 

 

take a  look at the alternate data sheet. i think it has much of what you are looking for:

 

https://mygolfspy.com/most-wanted-driver-2022-data/

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

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1 minute ago, Thin2win said:

take a  look at the alternate data sheet. i think it has much of what you are looking for

It doesn’t have the club information since that could vary widely between the golfers but it is definitely more data than has been published previously.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:

It doesn’t have the club information since that could vary widely between the golfers but it is definitely more data than has been published previously.  

True, but being able to sort by swing speed, AoA and handicap is a great start for narrowing down some options. 

One thing I noticed that I found curious, was that the mid-handicaps had higher ball speeds then the low handicaps in the 101-110 SS bracket. Those low handicaps must be the old guys 🤣

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

  1

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

take a  look at the alternate data sheet. i think it has much of what you are looking for:

 

https://mygolfspy.com/most-wanted-driver-2022-data/

That’s what I used. There is no swing data there that I referenced. Other than positive, neutral or negative you have no idea what the actual aoa is and without being able to even the summary of data for each tester you can’t do even a generic comparison to your swing. 
 

Someone with a +5 aoa and 100mph swing is going to have a different swing and different results than someone with 100 mph swing and a +2. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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7 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Most player that purchase clubs don’t do fittings.  the overwhelming majority of players just buy off the rack The premise is to identify the OTR driver that works for the largest percentage of players.  The clubs can be “fit” to any provided no upcharge shaft; which is basically what would happen in a brick and mortar shop. For the general golfer on a golf forum they are more into equipment and understand that fittings help find the best driver and that the most wanted list may not indicate the best driver for them.  
 

can you explain/clarify your question?  The most wanted testers are there to hit shots with the clubs; driver in this case, to provide data for the most wanted test.   As an individual, I want to do my best with each club and a side benefit is I get to see what clubs might work best for me.  

Many have said 15 shots is plenty for a fitting, but as you said the most wanted testers are there for data. If that is the case, 15 shots isn't enough. It would be helpful to see if you can adjust to the driver. Some may still show greater dispersion despite this adjustment, which would imply they're less forgiving. With a large enough data set, this inference is possible. If the goal is to provide good OTR advice, the data set is too limited. 

Disclaimer: I love the MGS Most Wanted Tests. I am not trying to be a detractor. I am simply surprised the data set is so small. 

Taylormade M5 Driver

Cobra F9 3 Wood

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Iron

Srixon ZX7 7-PW

Taylormade MG2 Wedges 50/55/60

Taylormade Spider X Putter

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2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s what I used. There is no swing data there that I referenced. Other than positive, neutral or negative you have no idea what the actual aoa is and without being able to even the summary of data for each tester you can’t do even a generic comparison to your swing. 
 

Someone with a +5 aoa and 100mph swing is going to have a different swing and different results than someone with 100 mph swing and a +2. 

Yes and hopefully they will go and get fit to determine what is best for them.  If they are not going to get fit regardless this data is better than anything else out there, by a wide margin.

Clubs in great standing

  • Driver - Callaway Epic Max LS - Rogue White 130 MSI TX
  • 3 Wood - Taylormade 300 Mini 13.5 - UST Mamiya Black 79X
  • 5 Wood - Taylormade Sim Max - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5
  • Irons - Srixon ZX5 5 iron, Srixon ZX7 (6-9)  - Recoil 110 F5
  • Wedges - Cleveland 46, 50*, 54*, & 60* Zipcore mid bounce - Recoil 110 F5
  • Putter -  Mannkrafted MA/66 - UST Frequency Filter, LAB MEZZ.1  - BGT Stability

Clubs in good standing(fighting for one spot)....

  • 7 Wood - Company that shall not be named - UST Mamiya Black 79TX | Util - Callaway Apex X Forged UTIL 21* - AD-DI | Util - Srixon ZXU 18* -  Recoil 110 F5 | Util - Callaway UW 19* - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5

Clubs that need a timeout/replacing

 

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2 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

One thing I noticed that I found curious, was that the mid-handicaps had higher ball speeds then the low handicaps in the 101-110 SS bracket. Those low handicaps must be the old guys 🤣

I resemble that remark..😁.  Those mid cappers hit the ball deep into the woods 😂

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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21 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

I think that comes down to the premise of the study. Are people hitting these shots to see what works for them, or to provide data for a study? 

I understand this is mostly a for fun study that should not be used to replace the need of a fitting. I just found it interesting the data set was so small. 

Interesting point and, from my background, a basic tenant in testing.  I do think a smaller sample of say 10-20 shots can serves as a first order filter to seperate wheat from chaff but, once you get down to a 2-3 contenders, more shots and on different days would be more telling.  As @cnosilpoints out, I have to keep reminding myself that the testers are not "fit" for their clubs as we now think of that process.  Also that these represent the "off the rack" configurations.  

Since I suspect a good many buyers simply use the likes of MGS Most Wanted results as a supplement to OEM marketing, and do not invest in a quality fitting, that's all the more reason to think about detailing the various testers profiles.  In contrast to numerous Matt Blois-like, near pro level players doing club reviews, this test group probably has a player and swing type that matches we mere mortals.  Knowing that Tester X is a 10-ish index who tends to hit fat, has a natural baby fade ball flight and other similar swing path data attributes would be beneficial. 

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

Yes and hopefully they will go and get fit to determine what is best for them.  If they are not going to get fit regardless this data is better than anything else out there, by a wide margin.

Yeah there’s nobody putting out this type of stuff and even what the YouTube reviewers do isn’t this detailed in data crunch although with them you have a baseline for their swing and all of the launch monitor data. 
 

But there just to many data points missing to narrow down anything to a short list other than by some preconceived notion

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

Many have said 15 shots is plenty for a fitting, but as you said the most wanted testers are there for data. If that is the case, 15 shots isn't enough. It would be helpful to see if you can adjust to the driver. Some may still show greater dispersion despite this adjustment, which would imply they're less forgiving. With a large enough data set, this inference is possible. If the goal is to provide good OTR advice, the data set is too limited. 

Disclaimer: I love the MGS Most Wanted Tests. I am not trying to be a detractor. I am simply surprised the data set is so small. 

I am just trying to help with how the testing is conducted; not judging.  
 

 I can probably adjust to most of the drivers.   I would say that when I am making my third pass through the clubs in a session I Am hitting them slightly longer but not better.  I  question whether  hitting another 85 (100 per tester was mentioned) shots would make a difference in my results?  Some drivers that just isn’t the case,  they simply don’t work for me.  I do know that going back and hitting some of the driverS outside of testing my results don’t really change.  I can’t speak to the significance and amount of data, but with driver testing lasting 2 1/2 months with the current data set, it would never work to have the testers run run through each driver 6 times as that would be a year long test just for drivers.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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15 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I do think a smaller sample of say 10-20 shots can serves as a first order filter to seperate wheat from chaff but, once you get down to a 2-3 contenders, more shots and on different days would be more telling. 

 

... Seriously curious, what do you think more shots on a range is going to demonstrate? I can't imagine it being any help to anyone that is going to actually play the driver on the course and as I have said, playing is a different animal than standing on a range and hitting balls that don't count and adds no pressure or stress to your swing. Personally, unless you are working on something specific I have never understood why people hit a ton of drivers on the range and little if any shots inside 100 yds, other than the obvious that it is fun. I get that, but I hear so many say they don''t understand why they can't take their range swing to the course. Standing in one spot and grooving a swing and for many adjusting to their flaws after 20 or more swings is why, because again you get one pressure/stressful swing on the course so it could not be more different.  

... I also understand as a low index player 3-5 swings will tell me everything I want to know about any club. Driving has always been the weakest part of my game, as in some days it is excellent and other days it is erratic, something that doesn't happen with my other clubs. So on a good day 3 swings will tell me how the driver will perform for me on the course when playing well and 5 swings on a bad day will tell me what I can expect from my mishits when driving poorly. Any more than 10 swings will just tell me how well I can adjust to my range swing, which is really no help at all when picking a driver to actually play. I would add, I do like the idea of different days as it can capture your good/bad swing days but even then 3-5 and c certainly no more than 10 shots would suffice.

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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17 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I would be shocked if any of the shafts I am going to try rectify this for me, as I have not gotten along with TM drivers for the past 4 cycles. 

What shafts have you tried or going to try? Shaft is about feel and weight and if the shaft and head doesn’t feel right it’s going to lead to some no bueno results.

With the swing weight being iirc 1.5 points higher on the stealth than the sim2 and maybe even 2 points higher than previous releases have you considered something with more counterbalance 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I think the sample is fine, the couple fittings I've gotten, I'm rarely taking more than a couple swings with each head/shaft combo before the fitter is changing. 

The biggest takeaway from me was how much the results change when you go into the data tab and select different swing speeds/handicaps. All the headlines and graphics and social media interaction stuff touts BIG WINNERS and MOST ACCURATE and all that, but just changing one setting to another, the most wanted Ping doesn't even show up in the top 10. Cobra and Mizuno look average at best on most of the graphics and front facing stuff, but for what feels like a good majority of golfers, they show up top 5 in almost all categories.

The testing and data is great. The presentation feels a little misleading when it puts one above the others without any detail or additional info.

Driver: :taylormade-small: M6 

Irons:  :mizuno-small:JPX919

Wedges: :taylormade-small:  54* and 58* MG3

Putter: :ping-small: Anser 4

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2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Seriously curious, what do you think more shots on a range is going to demonstrate? I can't imagine it being any help to anyone that is going to actually play the driver on the course and as I have said, playing is a different animal than standing on a range and hitting balls that don't count and adds no pressure or stress to your swing. Personally, unless you are working on something specific I have never understood why people hit a ton of drivers on the range and little if any shots inside 100 yds, other than the obvious that it is fun. I get that, but I hear so many say they don''t understand why they can't take their range swing to the course. Standing in one spot and grooving a swing and for many adjusting to their flaws after 20 or more swings is why, because again you get one pressure/stressful swing on the course so it could not be more different.  

... I also understand as a low index player 3-5 swings will tell me everything I want to know about any club. Driving has always been the weakest part of my game, as in some days it is excellent and other days it is erratic, something that doesn't happen with my other clubs. So on a good day 3 swings will tell me how the driver will perform for me on the course when playing well and 5 swings on a bad day will tell me what I can expect from my mishits when driving poorly. Any more than 10 swings will just tell me how well I can adjust to my range swing, which is really no help at all when picking a driver to actually play. I would add, I do like the idea of different days as it can capture your good/bad swing days but even then 3-5 and c certainly no more than 10 shots would suffice.

Sam, I'm not talking about hitting mindlessly on a range but rather using a LM and capturing data (certainly not 100 shots).  And, my point is not so much the number of shots taken with the finalists (though I'm confident a designed experiment analysis would recommend more than 10) as doing replicate test sets over a few sessions.  I say this primarily because most "average double digit golfers" do not have consistent swings and the multiple sessions would (IMO) do a better job ferreting that out in the final results.  For the Matt Blois type swing, it would help as well but to much less extent.  It's the randomness element that I'm keying in on.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What shafts have you tried or going to try? Shaft is about feel and weight and if the shaft and head doesn’t feel right it’s going to lead to some no bueno results.

With the swing weight being iirc 1.5 points higher on the stealth than the sim2 and maybe even 2 points higher than previous releases have you considered something with more counterbalance 

I have been fitted by a top fitter in the US, I know what works feel for me feel wise with shafts.  However what I like and what feels good doesn't always work with every head.

I know this going in, but I also know what shafts and a general head weight, swing weight, and length will work for me.  The problem is that not every head works with this format.  Because of the general lack of good fitting locations near me this is how I go about everything, better than off the rack buying and getting out 3 or 4 times in two weeks and couple of range sessions while I demo a driver is going to get better results(for me) than sitting in a bay and banging away on driver.

Are there other shafts that could make any head I have played recently better numbers wise?  Sure, but I play golf on the course and not on the range and therefore numbers gathered on a range or indoors is only a small part of the equation.

Clubs in great standing

  • Driver - Callaway Epic Max LS - Rogue White 130 MSI TX
  • 3 Wood - Taylormade 300 Mini 13.5 - UST Mamiya Black 79X
  • 5 Wood - Taylormade Sim Max - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5
  • Irons - Srixon ZX5 5 iron, Srixon ZX7 (6-9)  - Recoil 110 F5
  • Wedges - Cleveland 46, 50*, 54*, & 60* Zipcore mid bounce - Recoil 110 F5
  • Putter -  Mannkrafted MA/66 - UST Frequency Filter, LAB MEZZ.1  - BGT Stability

Clubs in good standing(fighting for one spot)....

  • 7 Wood - Company that shall not be named - UST Mamiya Black 79TX | Util - Callaway Apex X Forged UTIL 21* - AD-DI | Util - Srixon ZXU 18* -  Recoil 110 F5 | Util - Callaway UW 19* - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5

Clubs that need a timeout/replacing

 

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16 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I know what works feel for me feel wise with shafts.  However what I like and what feels good doesn't always work with every head.

This so so true. I’ve had shafts recently in a fairway that should have worked based on previous fittings but things were just off enough that I couldn’t rely on it. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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There are rounds where I feel my fitting results and choice of arrows are dead spot on, couldn't be better, and then.... (I'll let you finish the sentence) 🙂  Re-run any of these MGS Most Wanted tests next month with the same test group and I'd bet money we'd see different results.  Keep in mind that we're talking about very small margins in the data.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, jddaigneault said:

I know that 15 shots can be enough to tell us if a driver just isn't working for us, but statisticians typically put 100 as the minimum number in a sample size to effectively root out sources of error and normalize the data. If a test is based on compiling statistical data, it should include more hits per tester per driver. While someone might start changing their swing after 10-15, by 100 they have achieved a good groove and that would help balance the data. If you are claiming a test is statistically sound, it needs more data. If MGS wants to take the claim as the industry standard for testing, they need to meet minimum requirements for statistical analysis. 

I think you are slightly missing the point.  The test procedure is not measuring some sort of repeatable statistic where we need a lot of data points.  The test is measuring how well that particular club works for an individuals swing.  After 5-10 swings, the tester is, consciously or not, going to start adjusting their swing to get the desired result with that club.  You don't want that to happen. If that was the case, we should all be playing the same exact clubs, shafts, etc and constantly taking lessons until we all had the exact same perfect swing.  

The whole point of the test, and a fitting in general, is to find the club that works best for your existing swing. Going beyond 15 swings (some would argue less) would actually defeat the purpose.

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Interesting results in this. I would have never thought Ping would take the cake. It is a terrible sounding driver. It is stable thats for sure, but just about everything I have hit the past 3 years has out performed it. It was not even really close. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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8 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

 Being able to match one's own game, swing style, and ball flight tendencies to a tester or three just adds more value IMO. It would be a feature that, near as I can say, not offered by any competing product test entities.

 

Was chatting after my iron session today and what you are looking for should be available soon.  Apparently, They are working on getting the data into truegolffit and once it is complete it will become free and you can query based on this type of information. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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