DLow's Club Champion Putter Fitting

[dlow206]

I went for a putter fitting today (1/7/22) at my local Club Champion. After giving up armlock and going to a traditional length putter, I wanted to learn more about my stroke and see what putters based on my stroke may fit me best. Here is a little more detail about the process.

First step was to get the specs of my current putter. The putter I brought in was a Odyssey White Hot OG #1WS with a LAGP 105 putter shaft and a P2 Classic grip. Based on that, the fitter asked me how I got that putter and I told him that I built it myself. Throughout the rest of the fitting, we would talk quite a bit about club building and such. The putter spec'd out at 31", 68 degrees lie, 2 degrees loft. He measured the loft and lie angle using a digital mitchell putter machine.

Second step was to warm up on some putts, they were about 6 to 8 feet in length or so. After that, I got on the SAM putt lab and hit 7 putts. Here are the results of the SAM putt lab:

The first output from the SAM putt lab is an analysis of the stroke type is looking at the arc. Based on the report, I have a lot of arc. I knew I had some arc, but wasn't aware that it was as much as shown on the report. This was something eye opening, just from an understanding perspective. Face averaged 0.6 degrees open at impact.

Next was rotation relative to path. Based on this parameter, SAM recommended Face Balanced. Strong arc plus face balanced doesn't intuitively make sense but the fitter explained why SAM was recommended Face Balanced. The fitter did also note that although SAM recommended Face Balanced, that may not be the right fit for me. More on that later.

Next was aim. No idea how I was able to achieve 0.0 degrees at setup, but i did.

Next is length. The fitter said i stand pretty far from the ball and my eyes are inside the line. He didn't say it was something I should change but indicated by 31" putter might just be a little long. Also, I don't have sort of strange posture or anything like that in case you are wondering why i use a 31" putter. I really am just that short with proportionately short legs for my height and proportionately average to slightly longer than average arms for my height.

Next was loft. The measured loft of my putter was 2 degrees and i delivered just about 2 degrees of loft at impact. Fitter said that was perfect

My putter tends to be toe up at setup and ends toe up at impact. The fitter said that the recommended lie angle of 64 degrees is too drastic, likely i should go half an inch shorter and then start with 1 to 2 degrees flatter. During our chat, i told him i have a putter bending machine at home, so he said to mess around starting with 1 to 2 degrees and bend slightly more if needed.

The fitter said that my consistency numbers were the highest he had ever seen during a SAM fitting. Maybe that was a bit of hyperbole or maybe his clientele don't have very consistent putting strokes. Hyperbole aside, my stroke turned out to be pretty consistent. 

So after the review of the numbers, he grabbed some putters to try, some face balanced, some with a small amount of toe hang, and some with more toe hang, like my Odyssey blade. He knew I liked putters a lot and he knew I had a lot of knowledge about different brands and models and shafts as such, so he encouraged me to try out a bunch of stuff, even if it may not make sense based on the SAM recommendation. 

During the testing of other putts, you just make some putts from the same distance as when the SAM was setup, but you don't test each putter with the SAM. In terms of making putts, there were some putters that i made more putts with than others, but in general was making a lot of putts during the fitting. We had noticed with some of the putters, i was making the putts but on the right edge of the cup rather than center. There was one putter that I kept coming back to, which was the Queen B 11 by Bettinardi. I was making putts with it and more centered than the other putters that i was testing. 

That Queen B 11 ended up being my favorite putter aside from my gamer, but my gamer performed well too. I made all 7 test putts with the gamer at the start. He said the gamer was a great fit for me already and that there really is no need to buy a new putter unless i want a new putter. 

If the gamer was a good fit, then why did the SAM recommend face balanced. The fitter said it was because of the rotation relative to path and with the face being open at impact. However, he said that he thought the gamer grip was partially at fault for leaving the face open at impact. He the grip is probably too thick from front of the grip to the back of the grip (the P2 Classic grip is a bit unique in its shape). Without that, I would probably be more square at impact and then the machine would not have recommended face balanced. 

So coming out of it, my gamer is a good fit, but he wants me to increase the swingweight a bit (its really light), bend the lie angle a bit, and play it slightly shorter. The other outcome was that i putt better (at least during the fitting) with either a blade or a small mid-mallet. I happen to have a blade gamer right now, but 75% of my last two years playing golf has been with some sort of mallet. I had always thought I needed the "forgiveness" of a high MOI mallet. 

[cnosil]

Thanks for posting;  I enjoy reading information about peoples putter fitting.  Sounds like you had a knowledgeable fitter that didn't just quote the SAM results and actually interpreted what was going on.  

[dlow206]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Thanks for posting;  I enjoy reading information about peoples putter fitting.  Sounds like you had a knowledgeable fitter that didn't just quote the SAM results and actually interpreted what was going on.  

Yeah, the fitter i got was very knowledgeable. Only 6 months at Club Champion, but before that ran a True Spec location. He's also a PGA professional which was cool (used to be an assistant pro at Medalist). 

[Thin2win]

So even with your gamer being pretty optimal, I'm still betting heavily that you have looked for a deal on that Queen B 11 and already queued it up in a shopping cart at least 3 times. Parlayed that bet with another that you will end up with one before April 1st. 

[dlow206]

1 minute ago, Thin2win said:

So even with your gamer being pretty optimal, I'm still betting heavily that you have looked for a deal on that Queen B 11 and already queued it up in a shopping cart at least 3 times. Parlayed that bet with another that you will end up with one before April 1st. 

something like that but worse...

[RollingGreens]

Great detail from the fitting. Sounds like the fitter had a great way of communicating the data to you. Good to know you were already pretty close to the setup you needed with your current gamer. Hope it all comes together with the flatstick!

[Shapotomous]

9 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Yeah, the fitter i got was very knowledgeable. Only 6 months at Club Champion, but before that ran a True Spec location. He's also a PGA professional which was cool (used to be an assistant pro at Medalist). 

It seems like he was able to relate his info to you in a great way as well.....like he recognized & respected your base knowledge and got to the level of data that is meaningful to you. 

I love data like this and have never done a putter fitting but after passing one of their locations while Christmas shopping a few weeks ago.....and wondering what I'd spend some Christmas money on.....hmmmmmm.     

[Middler]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing it all.

[Rickp]

Well done & detailed.

[GolfSpy BOS]

Love it @dlow206!  Putter fittings can be eye opening, glad to see that your fitter went beyond the numbers and recommended output to really examine your stroke.

also an honorary member of the short and flat putter club.   32.5 and 67* (3 flat on most from stock).  

So when’s the Bettinardi coming in?

  

[Rickp]

3 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

Love it @dlow206!  Putter fittings can be eye opening, glad to see that your fitter went beyond the numbers and recommended output to really examine your stroke.

also an honorary member of the short and flat putter club.   32.5 and 67* (3 flat on most from stock).  

So when’s the Bettinardi coming in?

  

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bettinardi is in the “cart”

[cnosil]

The only bad thing about your putting fitting is it makes me want to schedule one so I can go play and experiment with graphite putter shafts.  

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

Love it @dlow206!  Putter fittings can be eye opening, glad to see that your fitter went beyond the numbers and recommended output to really examine your stroke.

also an honorary member of the short and flat putter club.   32.5 and 67* (3 flat on most from stock).  

So when’s the Bettinardi coming in?

  

I'm pondering a couple of different Bettinardi models lol. Queen B 10 and Queen B 11. Functionally they are the same putter (same weight, same offset, same neck, practically the same shape) just some minor difference in shape and aesthetics. I'm also a sucker for the hive Bettinardis, so that is not helping me in my indecisiveness.

The new Odyssey Tri-Hot 5K are also calling my name, lol.

Overall, do I need a new putter, no. Do I want a new putter, yes. Getting rid of most the other putters laying around the house, so need a gamer and a backup. 

[GolfSpy BOS]

9 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I'm pondering a couple of different Bettinardi models lol. Queen B 10 and Queen B 11. Functionally they are the same putter (same weight, same offset, same neck, practically the same shape) just some minor difference in shape and aesthetics. I'm also a sucker for the hive Bettinardis, so that is not helping me in my indecisiveness.

The new Odyssey Tri-Hot 5K are also calling my name, lol.

Overall, do I need a new putter, no. Do I want a new putter, yes. Getting rid of most the other putters laying around the house, so need a gamer and a backup. 

Those 5k’s do look like something I’ll need to give a putt or two. One of those white hot inserts could pair nicely with a firmer ball like the left dash. 

[Kenny B]

Nice writeup Derrick!  If Monte said that you have a lot of movement in your lower body when putting, did you inquire about that with the fitter, and could that be a factor in your strong arc?  If you can quiet the lower body, the face-balanced putter may end up being the best option.

[dlow206]

It was also good to hear from the fitter a validation of my thought that my putter is too long for me, even at 31". I have always adapter to putters by standing far away from the ball and made due, even with the 31" putter. 

To give an example, if you look at this pic below of Tiger Woods (no, im not trying to compare myself to Tiger Woods) and his setup. With that type of posture that he has at setup, if I were to use a 32" putter for example, the butt of the putter physically hits my belly button lol. 

[dlow206]

3 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Nice writeup Derrick!  If Monte said that you have a lot of movement in your lower body when putting, did you inquire about that with the fitter, and could that be a factor in your strong arc?  If you can quiet the lower body, the face-balanced putter may end up being the best option.

I've been doing a lot of at home practice putting after that lesson with Monte and really working on keeping the lower body quiet. When keeping the lower body quiet, my arc has actually increased from what it was before.

What thing i have noticed, and it partly goes back to the comments about lengths of putters, if I use a shorter putter than my 31", then I am able to stand closer to the ball (more of eyes over the ball or at least less inside), then my hips actually stabilize themselves better, and the arc of my stroke is less drastic, but still has an arc. 

[Kenny B]

5 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I've been doing a lot of at home practice putting after that lesson with Monte and really working on keeping the lower body quiet. When keeping the lower body quiet, my arc has actually increased from what it was before.

What thing i have noticed, and it partly goes back to the comments about lengths of putters, if I use a shorter putter than my 31", then I am able to stand closer to the ball (more of eyes over the ball or at least less inside), then my hips actually stabilize themselves better, and the arc of my stroke is less drastic, but still has an arc. 

I used to have a 31" putter.  When I was fitted at Ping, I was fitted into a 34" counterbalanced putter with a 71º lie angle.  My eyes are directly over the ball... at least they are when I putt well.  I still grip like it's a 31" putter with most of the grip above my hands.  As you mentioned, the butt of the club doesn't touch, but comes very close to my belly.  It's a problem when the weather is cold because of the extra clothes; the butt can get caught in the fabric.  My solution... reduce my belly!  

I love my putter, and I have no desire to even look at new putters.  Haven't picked one up in the stores in 5 years.  It's getting a new grip this spring; in and out of the bag has taken a toll on the butt of the grip.

[LeftyHawk]

Thanks for the write up and the info. I myself have been tossing about the idea of a fitter for my putter and your post puts me one step closer to giving it a go.  It sure has me thinking.

 

Thanks..

CHris

[in4par]

I too went through a CC putter fitting few years ago.   Was told I should be playing a Blade putter over my current Mallet based on my stroke, angle, etc.  I havent changed over (yet) because I spent some money years ago customizing my Scotty which I do like but the problem now is every time I miss a putt I start playing mind games with myself thinking I should change over to the a Blade style putter.  I would tell anyone out there, if you go through this putter fitting process wherever you go, be warned.....lol.  I recently tried some Bettinardi putters and have already fallen in love with many of them for the feel over Scotty.   This is terrible.....  Has anyone here gone through a CC putter fitting or any other fitting, changed over to a different style putter than what you've played because of it and has it made a drastic improvement in your putting?  I'm curious.

Edited January 9, 2022 by in4par

[Shapotomous]

18 hours ago, Kenny B said:

.....  As you mentioned, the butt of the club doesn't touch, but comes very close to my belly.  It's a problem when the weather is cold because of the extra clothes; the butt can get caught in the fabric.  My solution... reduce my belly!  

......

I'd give up on that dream and just buy lifts for your shoes!!  

[fixyurdivot]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:50 PM, dlow206 said:

I went for a putter fitting today (1/7/22) at my local Club Champion. After giving up armlock and going to a traditional length putter, I wanted to learn more about my stroke and see what putters based on my stroke may fit me best. Here is a little more detail about the process.

First step was to get the specs of my current putter. The putter I brought in was a Odyssey White Hot OG #1WS with a LAGP 105 putter shaft and a P2 Classic grip. Based on that, the fitter asked me how I got that putter and I told him that I built it myself. Throughout the rest of the fitting, we would talk quite a bit about club building and such. The putter spec'd out at 31", 68 degrees lie, 2 degrees loft. He measured the loft and lie angle using a digital mitchell putter machine.

Second step was to warm up on some putts, they were about 6 to 8 feet in length or so. After that, I got on the SAM putt lab and hit 7 putts. Here are the results of the SAM putt lab:

The first output from the SAM putt lab is an analysis of the stroke type is looking at the arc. Based on the report, I have a lot of arc. I knew I had some arc, but wasn't aware that it was as much as shown on the report. This was something eye opening, just from an understanding perspective. Face averaged 0.6 degrees open at impact.

Next was rotation relative to path. Based on this parameter, SAM recommended Face Balanced. Strong arc plus face balanced doesn't intuitively make sense but the fitter explained why SAM was recommended Face Balanced. The fitter did also note that although SAM recommended Face Balanced, that may not be the right fit for me. More on that later.

Next was aim. No idea how I was able to achieve 0.0 degrees at setup, but i did.

Next is length. The fitter said i stand pretty far from the ball and my eyes are inside the line. He didn't say it was something I should change but indicated by 31" putter might just be a little long. Also, I don't have sort of strange posture or anything like that in case you are wondering why i use a 31" putter. I really am just that short with proportionately short legs for my height and proportionately average to slightly longer than average arms for my height.

Next was loft. The measured loft of my putter was 2 degrees and i delivered just about 2 degrees of loft at impact. Fitter said that was perfect

My putter tends to be toe up at setup and ends toe up at impact. The fitter said that the recommended lie angle of 64 degrees is too drastic, likely i should go half an inch shorter and then start with 1 to 2 degrees flatter. During our chat, i told him i have a putter bending machine at home, so he said to mess around starting with 1 to 2 degrees and bend slightly more if needed.

The fitter said that my consistency numbers were the highest he had ever seen during a SAM fitting. Maybe that was a bit of hyperbole or maybe his clientele don't have very consistent putting strokes. Hyperbole aside, my stroke turned out to be pretty consistent. 

So after the review of the numbers, he grabbed some putters to try, some face balanced, some with a small amount of toe hang, and some with more toe hang, like my Odyssey blade. He knew I liked putters a lot and he knew I had a lot of knowledge about different brands and models and shafts as such, so he encouraged me to try out a bunch of stuff, even if it may not make sense based on the SAM recommendation. 

During the testing of other putts, you just make some putts from the same distance as when the SAM was setup, but you don't test each putter with the SAM. In terms of making putts, there were some putters that i made more putts with than others, but in general was making a lot of putts during the fitting. We had noticed with some of the putters, i was making the putts but on the right edge of the cup rather than center. There was one putter that I kept coming back to, which was the Queen B 11 by Bettinardi. I was making putts with it and more centered than the other putters that i was testing. 

That Queen B 11 ended up being my favorite putter aside from my gamer, but my gamer performed well too. I made all 7 test putts with the gamer at the start. He said the gamer was a great fit for me already and that there really is no need to buy a new putter unless i want a new putter. 

If the gamer was a good fit, then why did the SAM recommend face balanced. The fitter said it was because of the rotation relative to path and with the face being open at impact. However, he said that he thought the gamer grip was partially at fault for leaving the face open at impact. He the grip is probably too thick from front of the grip to the back of the grip (the P2 Classic grip is a bit unique in its shape). Without that, I would probably be more square at impact and then the machine would not have recommended face balanced. 

So coming out of it, my gamer is a good fit, but he wants me to increase the swingweight a bit (its really light), bend the lie angle a bit, and play it slightly shorter. The other outcome was that i putt better (at least during the fitting) with either a blade or a small mid-mallet. I happen to have a blade gamer right now, but 75% of my last two years playing golf has been with some sort of mallet. I had always thought I needed the "forgiveness" of a high MOI mallet. 

So all of that just to find out a smidge of lead tape is all you need?   Do you see the correlation between his glowing comments about your consistency and results on the course? My putter fitting used the GCQuad system and had nowhere near the level of detail. I'd love to do this with the ER5v.  Nice write up and, wow, that SAM Perfect Fit system really gets into the weeds.  

[dlow206]

4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

So all of that just to find out a smidge of lead tape is all you need?   Do you see the correlation between his glowing comments about your consistency and results on the course? My putter fitting used the GCQuad system and had nowhere near the level of detail. I'd love to do this with the ER5v.  Nice write up and, wow, that SAM Perfect Fit system really gets into the weeds.  

I think my stroke remains pretty consistent on course (probably not quite as consistent as in the fitting environment), but I don't think my aim on course is that consistent, and i tend to be iffy on distance control (a lot of the distance control issues goes back to the flaw that Monte called out in my lesson that i have partly fixed). Distance control is not something that is tested or accounted for well on the SAM and during the putting fitting. It does check for loft at impact, which is part of distance control, but the SAM doesn't test for what happens when you hit a long putt, at least in the CC fitting. 

I also need to have better focus on course with my putting and getting setup and aligned, sometimes i start skipping steps due to lack of focus (i actually do have a mild case of diagnosed ADHD). 

[cnosil]

10 hours ago, in4par said:

 and has it made a drastic improvement in your putting?  I'm curious.

what do you consider a drastic improvement?  Putting is probably best measured over a period of time and not a hole or even a round.  IMO, a fitting will help you setup the putter to match your stroke;  you still need to able to read greens and control speed.  

[MattWillGolf]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:24 AM, cnosil said:

The only bad thing about your putting fitting is it makes me want to schedule one so I can go play and experiment with graphite putter shafts.  

Club Champion is an hour and a half from me. It could mean a fitting before the season opens here. 

[dlow206]

Forgot to mention, the fitter enjoyed the fitting and talking shop, so he only charged me half price. Also said because i didn't argue with him. Apparently he has customers that argue with him during a putter fitting because they want the fitting/fitter to say they need a Scotty Newport lol. 

[Rickp]

3 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Forgot to mention, the fitter enjoyed the fitting and talking shop, so he only charged me half price. Also said because i didn't argue with him. Apparently he has customers that argue with him during a putter fitting because they want the fitting/fitter to say they need a Scotty Newport lol. 

Good for you.

That sounds counterintuitive to go there and then argue the results

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 hours ago, eternalfear00 said:

The ball you use and the groove depth have way more to do with feel than the material used. 

Putt with a carbon or gss putter and tell me they do feel different than a sss putter 

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Putt with a carbon or gss putter and tell me they do feel different than a sss putter 

I'd just add copper for comparison as it feels significantly different than steel putters. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 hours ago, cnosil said:

I'd just add copper for comparison as it feels significantly different than steel putters. 

True.