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DLow's Club Champion Putter Fitting


dlow206
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18 hours ago, Kenny B said:

.....  As you mentioned, the butt of the club doesn't touch, but comes very close to my belly.  It's a problem when the weather is cold because of the extra clothes; the butt can get caught in the fabric.  My solution... reduce my belly!  😂

......

I'd give up on that dream and just buy lifts for your shoes!!  😂

  • Haha 3

Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  :ping-small: Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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On 1/7/2022 at 7:50 PM, dlow206 said:

I went for a putter fitting today (1/7/22) at my local Club Champion. After giving up armlock and going to a traditional length putter, I wanted to learn more about my stroke and see what putters based on my stroke may fit me best. Here is a little more detail about the process.

First step was to get the specs of my current putter. The putter I brought in was a Odyssey White Hot OG #1WS with a LAGP 105 putter shaft and a P2 Classic grip. Based on that, the fitter asked me how I got that putter and I told him that I built it myself. Throughout the rest of the fitting, we would talk quite a bit about club building and such. The putter spec'd out at 31", 68 degrees lie, 2 degrees loft. He measured the loft and lie angle using a digital mitchell putter machine.

Second step was to warm up on some putts, they were about 6 to 8 feet in length or so. After that, I got on the SAM putt lab and hit 7 putts. Here are the results of the SAM putt lab:

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The first output from the SAM putt lab is an analysis of the stroke type is looking at the arc. Based on the report, I have a lot of arc. I knew I had some arc, but wasn't aware that it was as much as shown on the report. This was something eye opening, just from an understanding perspective. Face averaged 0.6 degrees open at impact.

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Next was rotation relative to path. Based on this parameter, SAM recommended Face Balanced. Strong arc plus face balanced doesn't intuitively make sense but the fitter explained why SAM was recommended Face Balanced. The fitter did also note that although SAM recommended Face Balanced, that may not be the right fit for me. More on that later.

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Next was aim. No idea how I was able to achieve 0.0 degrees at setup, but i did.

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Next is length. The fitter said i stand pretty far from the ball and my eyes are inside the line. He didn't say it was something I should change but indicated by 31" putter might just be a little long. Also, I don't have sort of strange posture or anything like that in case you are wondering why i use a 31" putter. I really am just that short with proportionately short legs for my height and proportionately average to slightly longer than average arms for my height.

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Next was loft. The measured loft of my putter was 2 degrees and i delivered just about 2 degrees of loft at impact. Fitter said that was perfect

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My putter tends to be toe up at setup and ends toe up at impact. The fitter said that the recommended lie angle of 64 degrees is too drastic, likely i should go half an inch shorter and then start with 1 to 2 degrees flatter. During our chat, i told him i have a putter bending machine at home, so he said to mess around starting with 1 to 2 degrees and bend slightly more if needed.

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The fitter said that my consistency numbers were the highest he had ever seen during a SAM fitting. Maybe that was a bit of hyperbole or maybe his clientele don't have very consistent putting strokes. Hyperbole aside, my stroke turned out to be pretty consistent. 

So after the review of the numbers, he grabbed some putters to try, some face balanced, some with a small amount of toe hang, and some with more toe hang, like my Odyssey blade. He knew I liked putters a lot and he knew I had a lot of knowledge about different brands and models and shafts as such, so he encouraged me to try out a bunch of stuff, even if it may not make sense based on the SAM recommendation. 

During the testing of other putts, you just make some putts from the same distance as when the SAM was setup, but you don't test each putter with the SAM. In terms of making putts, there were some putters that i made more putts with than others, but in general was making a lot of putts during the fitting. We had noticed with some of the putters, i was making the putts but on the right edge of the cup rather than center. There was one putter that I kept coming back to, which was the Queen B 11 by Bettinardi. I was making putts with it and more centered than the other putters that i was testing. 

That Queen B 11 ended up being my favorite putter aside from my gamer, but my gamer performed well too. I made all 7 test putts with the gamer at the start. He said the gamer was a great fit for me already and that there really is no need to buy a new putter unless i want a new putter. 

If the gamer was a good fit, then why did the SAM recommend face balanced. The fitter said it was because of the rotation relative to path and with the face being open at impact. However, he said that he thought the gamer grip was partially at fault for leaving the face open at impact. He the grip is probably too thick from front of the grip to the back of the grip (the P2 Classic grip is a bit unique in its shape). Without that, I would probably be more square at impact and then the machine would not have recommended face balanced. 

So coming out of it, my gamer is a good fit, but he wants me to increase the swingweight a bit (its really light), bend the lie angle a bit, and play it slightly shorter. The other outcome was that i putt better (at least during the fitting) with either a blade or a small mid-mallet. I happen to have a blade gamer right now, but 75% of my last two years playing golf has been with some sort of mallet. I had always thought I needed the "forgiveness" of a high MOI mallet. 

So all of that just to find out a smidge of lead tape is all you need? 😆  Do you see the correlation between his glowing comments about your consistency and results on the course? My putter fitting used the GCQuad system and had nowhere near the level of detail. I'd love to do this with the ER5v.  Nice write up and, wow, that SAM Perfect Fit system really gets into the weeds.  

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

So all of that just to find out a smidge of lead tape is all you need? 😆  Do you see the correlation between his glowing comments about your consistency and results on the course? My putter fitting used the GCQuad system and had nowhere near the level of detail. I'd love to do this with the ER5v.  Nice write up and, wow, that SAM Perfect Fit system really gets into the weeds.  

I think my stroke remains pretty consistent on course (probably not quite as consistent as in the fitting environment), but I don't think my aim on course is that consistent, and i tend to be iffy on distance control (a lot of the distance control issues goes back to the flaw that Monte called out in my lesson that i have partly fixed). Distance control is not something that is tested or accounted for well on the SAM and during the putting fitting. It does check for loft at impact, which is part of distance control, but the SAM doesn't test for what happens when you hit a long putt, at least in the CC fitting. 

I also need to have better focus on course with my putting and getting setup and aligned, sometimes i start skipping steps due to lack of focus (i actually do have a mild case of diagnosed ADHD). 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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10 hours ago, in4par said:

 and has it made a drastic improvement in your putting?  I'm curious.

what do you consider a drastic improvement?  Putting is probably best measured over a period of time and not a hole or even a round.  IMO, a fitting will help you setup the putter to match your stroke;  you still need to able to read greens and control speed.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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On 1/8/2022 at 10:24 AM, cnosil said:

The only bad thing about your putting fitting is it makes me want to schedule one so I can go play and experiment with graphite putter shafts.  

💯😂 Club Champion is an hour and a half from me. It could mean a fitting before the season opens here. 

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TaylorMade Supreme Hybrid Stand Bag

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PXG 0341 3 wood 15° w/Project X Even Flow Blue

Ping G30 19° 3 Hybrid w/Ping TFC 419H

Ping G25 4 - UW w/Ping CFS

Callaway Mack Daddy CB 54°/14° w/KBS 105 Hi-Rev 2.0

Callaway MD3 58°/9° W Grind w/True Temper Dynamic Gold 

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Snell MTB-Black or Maxfli Tour

Mileseey PF210 Laser Rangefinder

Clicgear 3.5+

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Forgot to mention, the fitter enjoyed the fitting and talking shop, so he only charged me half price. Also said because i didn't argue with him. Apparently he has customers that argue with him during a putter fitting because they want the fitting/fitter to say they need a Scotty Newport lol. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 11/13/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 3 wood, 5 wood - Aldila Ascent 60 S
Irons:titelist-small: T300 5 to SW - LAGP AXS Red 85 Stiff double soft stepped
Wedges:Miura: K-grind 2.0 58 wedge - Xcaliber RT Spin Wedge 100
Putter:  SIK DW Armlock - LAGP 180 armlock shaft

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3 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Forgot to mention, the fitter enjoyed the fitting and talking shop, so he only charged me half price. Also said because i didn't argue with him. Apparently he has customers that argue with him during a putter fitting because they want the fitting/fitter to say they need a Scotty Newport lol. 

Good for you.

That sounds counterintuitive to go there and then argue the results 😱

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Titleist TSi2, Kuro Kage 50 gr R2

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous Vista Pro R2

Irons; Ping G710 6-GW, Recoil 460 R2

Wedges; Titleist S9 54*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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4 hours ago, eternalfear00 said:

The ball you use and the groove depth have way more to do with feel than the material used. 

Putt with a carbon or gss putter and tell me they do feel different than a sss putter 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Putt with a carbon or gss putter and tell me they do feel different than a sss putter 

I'd just add copper for comparison as it feels significantly different than steel putters. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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11 hours ago, cnosil said:

I'd just add copper for comparison as it feels significantly different than steel putters. 

True. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Great write-up, thanks for sharing this

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Driver:   :honma: TR20 10.5*

Fairway: :callaway-small: Epic Speed 5w

Hybrid:   :callaway-small: Epic 4h 23* 

Irons:    :mizuno-small: JPX900 Hot Metal 5-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX2 52* 56* 60*

Putter:  :mizuno-small:M Craft Type V

Ball:   :bridgestone-small: Tour BXS

 

 

 

 

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