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Why Do Scotty Camerons Do (So) Poorly in MGS Most Wanted?


Middler

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In the world of mostly OTR (non niche/boutique) putters, is there a more coveted brand than SC for amateurs - despite premium prices? I know lots of players with SCs and they just love them. I have never owned one, but when I've tried one out they have wonderful feel and they look great.

And SCs are in the hands of many of the best touring pros, having won countless tournaments/majors with them. Yes I know the pros are paid to play them, but I can't believe any of them would use any putter they truly believed would hurt their chances of winning.

Two of the SC Newports, one of their most popular models (e.g. Tiger) are near the bottom. A phantom, e.g. Justin Thomas, Cantlay, is dead last for mallets. The better performing SC blades and mallets are less common shapes?

I assume this has been mentioned before, but I don't remember seeing it. Just the influence of marketing?

 

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My thoughts on SCs are that they are worth it... If and only if you are getting one custom fit from Scotty. I think that it why tour pros don't have issues with them, they are using bespoke putters that are custom fitted. They really are probably as good as a putter could be for them.

But just buying one of the rack? Yeah, most wanted has pretty effectively proved that they don't offer anything over anyone else. 

 

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SC is still living off of a name he created in the 90s and early 2000s. I got my first and only in 2008 and rolled it for 10 years. It was great, I'll never have another. SC isn't producing anything better than anyone in 2022 and he's still charging more. As far as touring pros go (especially your top 50 in the world), the putters they're using and the putters we have available to us aren't the same. That goes for every piece of equipment. Even when custom fit, your putter isn't getting the attention to detail that their putters are getting. 

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1 hour ago, Thin2win said:

My thoughts on SCs are that they are worth it... If and only if you are getting one custom fit from Scotty. I think that it why tour pros don't have issues with them, they are using bespoke putters that are custom fitted. They really are probably as good as a putter could be for them.

But just buying one of the rack? Yeah, most wanted has pretty effectively proved that they don't offer anything over anyone else. 

 

Could very well be. I couldn't find an explanation of MGS Most Wanted putter testing methodology, though I am sure it's here somewhere? Hopefully testers are only using putters that fit them within reason, and not all testers using all putters?

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I think part of it is that there are so many more models of Scotty than other brands. Yes, his putters win a ton on tour, but if you look at the staff players, they all have their own model (I expect someone on MGS to prove me wrong) and many have "PROTO" somewhere in the title.

Compare that to TM where all their tour wins are Spiders.

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3 hours ago, Thin2win said:

My thoughts on SCs are that they are worth it... If and only if you are getting one custom fit from Scotty. I think that it why tour pros don't have issues with them, they are using bespoke putters that are custom fitted. They really are probably as good as a putter could be for them.

But just buying one of the rack? Yeah, most wanted has pretty effectively proved that they don't offer anything over anyone else. 

 

Most pros using them aren’t actually fit by scotty and definitely don’t have custom fit ones. There are some like JT, Scott, Faxon and Rickie off the top of my head. Scotty has a tour rep and he has a bunch of putters and works with any of the pros early in the week. Scotty goes to some tour stops. 
 

As to the OP I’ve wondered this too. Purely speculation but I think there’s some bias against them which we all know bias good or bad will influence peoples play and decision. 
 

With that said I think some of it has to do with the inserts he used and even many scotty lovers didn’t care for them. Many prefer the older models but that has changed in the last couple years as he’s gotten away from the inserts.

 

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I think scotty does some stuff that is exceptional. The process controls they follow in construction, fit and finish probably make them the leader in spec matching putters. If they are selling a putter that is listed at 68* lie with 2* loft, I'd bet a lot that any version of that putter you grab off the shelf is exactly those specs. 

If I could go get fit for a scotty at the Titleist facility, I'm sure it would be the best possible putter for me. That said, I'd also never buy one at a store. Why spend the money on an Armani suit that isn't your size? 

Off the rack is what MGS tests for most wanted and what most people buy. Overall it looks like how a Scotty comes from the factory, is more geared to a small subset of the player pool. 

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1 hour ago, Thin2win said:

If I could go get fit for a scotty at the Titleist facility, I'm sure it would be the best possible putter for me.

Unless something changed they don’t do putter fittings at the TPI facilities in Carlsbad or Manchester lane. It’s wedges, irons, hybrids, drivers/woods.

You would have to go to the Scotty Cameron gallery. I don’t recall if the option for being fit to an OTR putter is an option or if the person is fit for the tour only models that are going to run $2500 minimum.

They have the otr in stock but what I have seen is they are all stamped made to order offering with different color paintfill and grips.

1 hour ago, Thin2win said:

Off the rack is what MGS tests for most wanted and what most people buy. Overall it looks like how a Scotty comes from the factory, is more geared to a small subset of the player pool. 

Not sure what you are saying here? Are you saying the circle t putters are designed for a small subset of the public  or that the otr versions are?

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

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Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Not sure what you are saying here? Are you saying the circle t putters are designed for a small subset of the public  or that the otr versions are?

Just based on the most wanted results, Im guessing the OTR putters are setup for a smaller subset. Not that that makes them bad, but they often do perform below average during testing. So my assumption, is that they are setup for a group that is under represented in most wanted testing.

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On 1/9/2022 at 12:12 PM, Middler said:

Could very well be. I couldn't find an explanation of MGS Most Wanted putter testing methodology, though I am sure it's here somewhere? Hopefully testers are only using putters that fit them within reason, and not all testers using all putters?

Manufacturers are requested to send in 34" stock putters that can be purchased OTR.    Some manufacturers may send multiple configurations of a model and based on our stroke style we may putt with only one of the models (for this years test,  there is one manufacturer that has sent in multiple lie angles).   Protocol is that we get groups of about 6 putters and hit 8 putts at 5, 10, and 20 feet (the order is not the same for all putters).   We don't have to putt any putt within 12" of the hole,  but anything else has to be putted;  we then document how many 1 putts and 3 putts we have.     MGS then calculates strokes gained for each putter and provides results.   WE also provide subjective feedback on each putter but that isn't used in determining most wanted.  

It is interesting rolling all those putts;  I can tell you that last years testing told me I shouldn't really game a mallet putter.  I didn't three putt any,  but my performance was far worse than with a blade putter.  

Why don't SC putters do better?  Who knows, but IMO they really aren't all that.  They are nice and high quality putters and I went through my own SC phase but if you think about it why should a SC Newport should be better than any other Anser style putter?   What I do notice rolling all these putters is that they do perform differently.  With some I have much better distance control and with some I have much better directional control.   Maybe it is the grip that is included with the putter since we test them as OTR,  we don't get to put grips we like on the putters.  

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I'm not sure that Scotty varies far from what he likes.

Face-balanced, for example, was never a concept that he liked very much.  

 

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17 hours ago, Riverboat said:

Like any brand's models, scotty Cameron putters may be perfect for you... or not. The key is to find the putter that is perfect for you, regardless of brand. I've had a scotty in my bag for about two years now, and I can't imagine switching, but the putter that I used must often for 20 years before that was a Wilson harmonized... ugly but the most effective putter I had before the Scotty. The last time I had the grip changed, the pro said "you do realize you're paying more for the grip than the putter is worth?" I asked why that matters if I make putts with it. He just shrugged. 

People get so caught up in name brand, prestige putters, clubs, balls, etc., when all that really matters is how does it work for you. 

You said it all IMHO in the first few lines--- Finding a putter that works for you regardless of the brand and even the style or vintage for that matter. I myself carried a Ping Zing 2 for over 20 years. In my travels I have seen a variety of different putters from great players and hustlers. LOL one hustler I knew putted with an old Northwestern blade one of those like you would find at K- Mart or in a beginner set. That thing was worn out grip half rotted and held on with adhesive tape. But he could darn sure putt with it. I remember the famous hustler Doyle Brunson remarked " He has won enough money with that thing that he could have bought the Northwestern Golf Company CASH from the Ronasco brothers".  I do putt with the rusty beat up lead taped Scotty now. Not because it is a Scotty but because I can make putts with it. It is not mainstream by any means I have it tuned for me with a 70s vintage Bulls Eye fluted shaft and a SS grip.  Hey if it was a Wally World Wilson and I could putt with it then it would be in the bag. I for one do not stand on prestige or popularity.

I guess it is what trips someones trigger. If they want the latest and greatest so be it. I would have never said in the case of when you got your putter regripped about the grip being worth more than the putter. Naah I would have thought well this guy knows and loves his putter. I think really the reason besides being great equipment the reason Odyssey is so popular now is because of Tour presence and advertising. Just because I do not have the eye for thise putters does not make them bad. LOL I have a bud of mine who found a 2 ball at a thrift store for $2. That thing is as beat up as my Scotty and one of the balls are missing or inserts on the top. I told him maybe I could find another maybe clone and fix that. He was like no no no!!! He likes it like it is and can putt with it. We call it his One ball.  Yeah IMHO it is whatever someone likes and I have no problem with it

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12 hours ago, Thin2win said:

Just based on the most wanted results, Im guessing the OTR putters are setup for a smaller subset. Not that that makes them bad, but they often do perform below average during testing. So my assumption, is that they are setup for a group that is under represented in most wanted testing.

You have to remember that in general that the average Joe weekend warrior is not as tuned to clubs as folks like us are. They see the hype and go off of new and shiny and besides Joe Pro plays it on tour. Really that goes for any clubs these days. Yea they have no idea about face balancing etc and tuning one as I call it. Such is the golf market these days appeal to the masses. Which really is textbook marketing 101

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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15 hours ago, cnosil said:

Manufacturers are requested to send in 34" stock putters that can be purchased OTR.    Some manufacturers may send multiple configurations of a model and based on our stroke style we may putt with only one of the models (for this years test,  there is one manufacturer that has sent in multiple lie angles).   Protocol is that we get groups of about 6 putters and hit 6 putts at 5, 10, and 20 feet (the order is not the same for all putters).   We don't have to putt any putt within 12" of the hole,  but anything else has to be putted;  we then document how many 1 putts and 3 putts we have.     MGS then calculates strokes gained for each putter and provides results.   WE also provide subjective feedback on each putter but that isn't used in determining most wanted.  

It is interesting rolling all those putts;  I can tell you that last years testing told me I shouldn't really game a mallet putter.  I didn't three putt any,  but my performance was far worse than with a blade putter.  

Why don't SC putters do better?  Who knows, but IMO they really aren't all that.  They are nice and high quality putters and I went through my own SC phase but if you think about it why should a SC Newport should be better than any other Anser style putter?   What I do notice rolling all these putters is that they do perform differently.  With some I have much better distance control and with some I have much better directional control.   Maybe it is the grip that is included with the putter since we test them as OTR,  we don't get to put grips we like on the putters.  

Thanks for the methodology description. I’ve read several fitting experts who claim the player should disregard the first 5 shots (give or take) with each configuration change (shaft, head, other) because the body takes a while to adapt to the new configuration. That’s for all clubs, including putters. Makes sense to me, the only way to know if you’ve been properly fitted is to take the club on a course and give yourself a little time (several rounds) to get comfortable with the new weapon. IOW, I’m not sure I’d trust my results I went directly from one putter to another hitting 6 putts (of 6x3 distances) with each of 6 putters.

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43 minutes ago, Middler said:

Thanks for the methodology description. I’ve read several fitting experts who claim the player should disregard the first 5 shots (give or take) with each configuration change (shaft, head, other) because the body takes a while to adapt to the new configuration. That’s for all clubs, including putters. Makes sense to me, the only way to know if you’ve been properly fitted is to take the club on a course and give yourself a little time (several rounds) to get comfortable with the new weapon. IOW, I’m not sure I’d trust my results I went directly from one putter to another hitting 6 putts (of 6x3 distances) with each of 6 putters.

Interesting. Most fitters I’ve worked with say that after three swings one has adjusted to the club/shaft and that all strikes after 3 should be disregarded. The differences show in the first three hits, so switch after three. Hmm.

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39 minutes ago, Middler said:

Thanks for the methodology description. I’ve read several fitting experts who claim the player should disregard the first 5 shots (give or take) with each configuration change (shaft, head, other) because the body takes a while to adapt to the new configuration. That’s for all clubs, including putters. Makes sense to me, the only way to know if you’ve been properly fitted is to take the club on a course and give yourself a little time (several rounds) to get comfortable with the new weapon. IOW, I’m not sure I’d trust my results I went directly from one putter to another hitting 6 putts (of 6x3 distances) with each of 6 putters.

Most of what I have heard is that the true results come from the earlier results as we get used to/adapt to the clubs after hitting it several times.  I’ve been told that player will also play better initially with a face balanced putter as it masks some errors when switching especially if the prior putter didn’t fit well.  Also, although they switch distance order later putters may perform a little better since we get used to the distance and the stroke needed.  It is probably easier in the putter testing to make the same stroke each time than in the testing if other clubs as the miss appears smaller.  
 I also don’t believe that you need to putt outside on a real green to evaluate.  Outdoor greens aren’t perfect and how the ball rolls is influenced by the green and not you stroke.  Indoors you can control the conditions better and evaluate start line and distance control with a “perfect” roll.  The time requirement; IMO, is about understanding dispersion patterns as all clubs, even putters, have a dispersion pattern.  

of course we all have to do what we think is best and appropriate to select a club. As we know people buy clubs for all kinds of reasons.  

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

Interesting. Most fitters I’ve worked with say that after three swings one has adjusted to the club/shaft and that all strikes after 3 should be disregarded. The differences show in the first three hits, so switch after three. Hmm.

Same. My last fitting with titleist I hit 3-5 shots before he made a tweak to either loft, shaft or head, there were a couple setups that after 2 swings it was evident that it wasn’t the right setup. Once we dialed in the head it was 5 shots per change. 
 

The fitter wants you swinging your swing and not the accommodations you make to try and get a setup to work

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 1/9/2022 at 9:24 AM, Middler said:

I know lots of players with SCs and they just love them. I have never owned one, but when I've tried one out they have wonderful feel and they look great.

This is easily the biggest reason people purchase Scotty's OTR if you ask me. Scotty's are constructed using materials and methods which produce a premium looking and feeling product - it's like buying a nice watch from that perspective. You can also expect great performance if you take the time do a fitting or at least give a few models a proper test. I've said it before, but I demoed the SC model I wanted for a month on the course before I pulled the trigger and it did perform well for me. 

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4 hours ago, cnosil said:

 I also don’t believe that you need to putt outside on a real green to evaluate.  Outdoor greens aren’t perfect and how the ball rolls is influenced by the green and not you stroke.  Indoors you can control the conditions better and evaluate start line and distance control with a “perfect” roll.  The time requirement; IMO, is about understanding dispersion patterns as all clubs, even putters, have a dispersion pattern.  

 

... I feel the opposite. Controlled indoor putting is just that. Putting on the course when it matters is a completely different animal. I make the same argument for getting fit for a driver when you stand in the same spot and dial in your shots when they don't even count as opposed to one time only on the tee and the results count. Pressure changes everything. I don't want what tests best, I want what performs best under the pressure of actually playing. I bought the original Spyder putter after rolling it fantastic on the hard, fast and flat surfaces of the PGA SS. It was abysmal for me on the course. It still performed well on straight flat putts but anything of distance with break was a disaster. I sold it after one round. I have found Scotty's to have excellent balance and feel. I have played several but none stayed in my bag for long. My last putting purchase for putting on Bermuda after a lifetime of putting a blade putter on bent greens, I was determined to get the best mallet putter for my stroke regardless of cost. I expected to buy a Scotty or Bettinardi or other "premium" putter. I took several days of testing to make sure my results were consistent and ended up with a $129 Cleveland mallet. It was a real surprise for me but I have been very happy with the performance. 

... I LOVE MGS testing but putters especially I take with a grain of salt. Putting is so personal and I would argue more mental than physical for anyone with even close to a repeatable stroke. I use a traditional putter grip, Sinkfit Skinny and testing with a fatter grip will not give me a true idea of how it would perform on the course. Anything other than a 33.5" length the I have putted with for 36 years would also be less than ideal. So I could use all the testing putters and give a general opinion but not sure that would hold up on the course once I had it cut and weighted to my perfect length and grip. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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9 minutes ago, chisag said:

Controlled indoor putting is just that. Putting on the course when it matters is a completely different animal. I make the same argument for getting fit for a driver when you stand in the same spot and dial in your shots when they don't even count as opposed to one time only on the tee and the results count. Pressure changes everything

Great points! I completely agree with everything you put here.  So much importance to numbers on a simulator even for irons/driver, but when you get out to the course where the results really matter - what are you doing then?  

It would not be feasible to test the same way because of just how much equipment is out there, but if you are able to demo 2/3 of you top performers from a fitting, I think you'd come away with a much better tuned set that you would have peak confidence with and truly play your best golf.

I think a lot of people are able to adjust since they are in a controlled environment and hitting one ball after another.

Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*)

3 Hybrid :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*)

4 Iron -  :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW:  :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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9 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I feel the opposite. Controlled indoor putting is just that. Putting on the course when it matters is a completely different animal. I make the same argument for getting fit for a driver when you stand in the same spot and dial in your shots when they don't even count as opposed to one time only on the tee and the results count. Pressure changes everything.

... I LOVE MGS testing but putters especially I take with a grain of salt. Putting is so personal and I would argue more mental than physical for anyone with even close to a repeatable stroke. I use a traditional putter grip, Sinkfit Skinny and testing with a fatter grip will not give me a true idea of how it would perform on the course. Anything other than a 33.5" length the I have putted with for 36 years would also be less than ideal. So I could use all the testing putters and give a general opinion but not sure that would hold up on the course once I had it cut and weighted to my perfect length and grip. 

Pressure does change everything.  Testing a putter on a green versus inside changes nothing as you can still stand in the same spot.  What you are advocating is playing and evaluating the club. I do agree that is something that needs to be done.  But is that a club issue or a mental issue?  
 

I personally agree that the testing isn’t ideal, but as I know you have mentioned and as have I, the testing isnt intended for players like us; it is intended for the player that buys off the rack.  My biggest subjective feedback on putters is related to the grip.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:

Testing a putter on a green versus inside changes nothing as you can still stand in the same spot.  What you are advocating is playing and evaluating the club. I do agree that is something that needs to be done.  But is that a club issue or a mental issue?  
 

I personally agree that the testing isn’t ideal, but as I know you have mentioned and as have I, the testing isnt intended for players like us; it is intended for the player that buys off the rack.

 

... Of course you can stand in one spot but most practice greens have plenty of slope and distance differences so just using one ball and putting in different directions can make a huge difference and come closer to on course performance because you can't adjust to your first putt and dial anything in. But again I like testing and fittings and highly recommend both as starting points. And agree with you, average off the rack players, especially those that play once a week and never practice would find it very valuable. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Of course you can stand in one spot but most practice greens have plenty of slope and distance differences so just using one ball and putting in different directions can make a huge difference and come closer to on course performance because you can't adjust to your first putt and dial anything in. But again I like testing and fittings and highly recommend both as starting points. And agree with you, average off the rack players, especially those that play once a week and never practice would find it very valuable. 

Nit picking,  but indoor facilities now have platforms that enable you to change slope. 😁 My original point was more about real vs artificial grass and peoples opinions that fitting has to be done on a real green.   I think our opinions are also influenced by our mechanical/feel viewpoints and what skills the player happens to be practicing. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Nit picking,  but indoor facilities now have platforms that enable you to change slope. 😁 My original point was more about real vs artificial grass and peoples opinions that fitting has to be done on a real green.   I think our opinions are also influenced by our mechanical/feel viewpoints and what skills the player happens to be practicing. 

 

... I am sure it does. No one size fits all in golf and we are all different. I would have also thought greens in a store or on a course are really not that different when I played Bent grass but Bermuda and the grain changed everything for me. I even had to adjust my 2-4 foot putting stroke to something more aggressive with a shorter backswing and more aggressive forward stroke after so many short putts were bumped off line by grain or the anomaly's in the green. Fast, smooth carpeting just can't emulate that experience for me but as you said I am more feel than mechanical. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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Good points by both @cnosil and @chisag in the discussion.  I think for what the most wanted testing is trying to accomplish and its intended audience the indoor 'controlled' test putts are giving good data to an off the rack buyer.

For a golfer that is interested in many other factors that influence a clubs performance the most wanted results can be used as a data point but the playing test over a lengthy time period is needed (maybe more than 1 round! 😆 ) to see if the club retains gamer status.   

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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19 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Good points by both @cnosil and @chisag in the discussion. 

 

... I love reading cnosil's point of view as well as his insider testing. Always great to hear opposing views. He is more mechanical and I am more feel oriented, just like many forum members that are either or a little of both.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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I had a Newport Select in my bag for several years.  One of my favorite parts of that putter was the grip.  I had a pistolero grip on it and I still haven't found a perfect replacement for it on my ER2B.  The SNSR Contour is close... but one day I might have a EVNROLL putter with a Scotty grip on it... if my OCD can stomach that.  haha

I originally got into mine because I loved the feel of the deep milled face and loved the design of the softer, more rounded Newport (no number) model.  It had no alignment aid, nothing to distract me, and felt great rolling the ball.  If I didn't have the chance to play an ER2B on the course and find that I liked the wide-blade look, and the feel was as good, I'd probably still be rolling it.  

Since that line though I have not enjoyed the feel of any of his insert putters, and never got along with any of the mallets.  Love the looks, but didn't actually like putting with them.  I haven't tried any of the newer ones though.

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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Ok here is what MGS and countless others miss. I’m a +4 handicap and have won countless amateur tournaments. My gamer is a T5w (like Homa’s) and I’m completely brand agnostic. What Cameron does really well is keep things simple with putters that provide good feedback. Pros and great ams don’t miss the sweet spot of a putter by much so we need something predictable and reliable. If you are a great player you don’t need a lot of “tech”. Every time Odyssey or Evnroll come out with something I try it, want to love it but I always come back to SC. Grooves and inserts are quite unpredictable I’ve always felt. There is a reason why Odyssey’s best putter is also the most simple low tech one they have made (white hot). So if you need a game improvement putter get one but SC is likely not going to be the best for you. I promise if tech putters are that great for everyone every pro would be rolling Evnrolls or Odyssey grooved ones. 

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SC Newport putters, which are very good putters, are very similar to the Ping Anser and so are many other brands on the market.  The Anser was the best putter ever made.  I have three Newport putters and love them.  They fit my eye.  I have tried other brands and unusual configurations, but always come back to the Newport.   A putter is a very personal club, it is the one club you use the most during a round.  At least eighteen times.     

 

Driver - TSi3 10.75* - Fujikura Speeder 661 TR

Fairway - TSi2 14.25* - Fujikura Motore Speeder VC 6.1 

Fairway - TSR1 17.0* - Fujikura Vista Pro 65S

Hybrid - TSR1 20.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75  

Hybrid - TSR1 23.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75

Irons - T350 (2023) - 6-48W - True Temper AMT Red 95g-107g

Wedges - Vokey SM9 - 52.08F, 56.10S - True Temper AMT Red 94 

**  GolfPride MCC +4 Midsize Grips  (all woods/irons/wedges)

Putter - 2023 Scotty Cameron Super Select Squareback 2 35" 

**  Superstroke 1.0 Pistol Grip  

Golf Ball - TITLEIST - Prov1s (2023)                                                         

Golf Bags - TITLEIST  - Cart 14 (black), Mid Size Tour (black/white)

Golf Glove - FootJoy (StaSof), Shoes, Apparel and Outerwear        

Rangefinder - Bushnell Pro XE

 

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