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Why Do Scotty Camerons Do (So) Poorly in MGS Most Wanted?


Middler

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27 minutes ago, eternalfear00 said:

Ok here is what MGS and countless others miss. I’m a +4 handicap and have won countless amateur tournaments. My gamer is a T5w (like Homa’s) and I’m completely brand agnostic. What Cameron does really well is keep things simple with putters that provide good feedback. Pros and great ams don’t miss the sweet spot of a putter by much so we need something predictable and reliable. If you are a great player you don’t need a lot of “tech”. Grooves and inserts are quite unpredictable I’ve always felt. There is a reason why Odyssey’s best putter is also the most simple low tech one they have made (white hot). I promise if tech putters are that great for everyone every pro would be rolling Evnrolls or Odyssey grooved ones. 

 

... A typical muni is quite different than a CC or Tournament caliber course. Certainly different then the Pro Tours where greens are so fast and true and you don't need tech to lift the ball out of an indention you find yourself in on thicker greens. You can also take a nice smooth stroke from 6 feet and still don't need to hammer the ball from 30 feet on fast and true greens so I am not surprised a simple putter works best for you and the Pro's. Jump on a muni rolling 8 on the stimp with grain growing into you and from 6 feet or take a mini driver swing from 30 feet and you may find grooves on the face aren't so bad. 

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15 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

I'm certainly not at your level, but the feel of the milled face on my SC is why I can't see myself switching to anything else. It's soft, but not mushy like most inserts. Ball comes off like butta. I've never putted as well with anything else. 

The ball you use and the groove depth have way more to do with feel than the material used. 

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Original Cameron putters were milled by Bettinardi. Cameron had no idea how to mill when he first began to build putters. His putters are very good, but so are all the others. Most Titleist tour players use Cameron because they are being paid to use them...and they're free! It's all about feel, looks, and what works for you. I use a '21 Ping Fetch, but my Odyssey Original White Hot Rossie is a winner, as is my Odyssey Original Dual Force Rossie Blade, the first with an insert...Faldo won the '96 Masters with a Dual Force Rossie II. I bought the WH Rossie used for $25 and the condition is 9.5/10! You don't have to spend $400+ on a putter.

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As previously mentioned, tour pros have thousands upon thousands spent on fitting a SC to them. They also miss the center by fractions, if at all. Your AVERAGE golfer, most people buying off the rack, cant duplicate the same putting stroke 2 outta 5 times. I play with 100+ Random people a year on public courses, non sanctioned. The very vast majority of people that i see rolling scottys, couldnt make a 6’ straight put if their life depended on it. The average golfers that can putt ok, are usually rolling something with forgiveness. The handful of scratch golfers that ive played with, are almost never rolling scotty’s. 

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3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I love reading cnosil's point of view as well as his insider testing. Always great to hear opposing views. He is more mechanical and I am more feel oriented, just like many forum members that are either or a little of both.  

The same for me;  I enjoy reading your point of view.    My mind keeps going on this and going back to your putting under pressure,  this was one of the key points of one of my putting coaches.   He talked about finding the right matchups for your stroke so that when you were under pressure there were no manipulations.  These matchups included setup, how you power the stroke, and if the putter fit your tendencies.  

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Cameron's have varied in feel thru the years, materials, etc. They lost me for about 15 yrs for this reason.   I putted with the original Tyrellium Santa Fe from 1996 for about 6 yrs, then switched to an OG Studio 1.5.  Those older putters felt so much better and different than the putters from ~2005-2016 or so, the GSS models.  The GSS material was tinny, too metallic/clicky in feel for me, maybe the balls of that era had something to do with it... I went to Odyssey during these years, using the first #7 then the white hot #7 until the insert wore out and started peeling and was unplayable.   

Went to have a fitting thinking Mizuno M-Craft V or IV or ER2, on a whim I tried the 2019/2020 Studio Select Flowback 5.5, felt like my old Studio 1.5 but stable like the #7.  The numbers were great, dropped -1* loft and -1.5* lie and it was money. It's been my gamer for almost 2 yrs.  No more messing with inserts...

If you're going to plunk down $300-$600 or more for a putter, and like most of us here, occasionally indulge in more putters, best to get a fitting.  This will help you weed out what putter type works or won't work for your stroke or tendencies.  Even if you think, oh I only putt with mallets or I only putt with Newport style blades, a fitting would go a long way to both improving your putting and giving you a data-driven blueprint on what type of putters you should be ho'ing  if you're so inclined, LOL!!!  Once you know your numbers, loft/lie/hosel type/swingweight/grip type, ho'ing for something that checks all the boxes will be more efficient and you'll come to your gamer sooner, regardless of brand.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, eternalfear00 said:

The ball you use and the groove depth have way more to do with feel than the material used. 

Metals, face thickness, and mill mark depth/thickness all influence the sound/feel of a putter. 

 

2 hours ago, Riverboat said:

Not going to argue, but no other putter I've used feels as good as this one. Nonmilled steel faces have always been too clicky and hot, and as I said, most inserts have felt mushy, spongy. Could be that the milling reduces the amount of metal actually contacting the face which gives me the perfect in between feel, but it both feels and sounds soft but not dead. 

 Not sure what you mean by a non milled face;  do you just mean insert putters?   Milling patterns vary greatly as do face thicknesses both of which make the ball sound clicky or muted.   The amount of metal that contacting the ball actually influences ball speed and feel.   This is essentially how the Evnroll putters work.   Feel is definitely a personal thing 

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3 hours ago, eternalfear00 said:

 I promise if tech putters are that great for everyone every pro would be rolling Evnrolls or Odyssey grooved ones. 

You are correct, they are not for everyone especially someone that is right around the sweet spot.   Pro's do want consistency and the appropriate feedback when they miss hit a putt.  I recall reading a story from Sean Toulon who had Tiger try one of his putters.  Tiger's response was that it was nice but it rolled the ball too fast.  As you said, pro's want consistency and they have spent years learning how face the ball comes off the face which is crucial for distance control.  

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Just updated my original post in this thread; the putter protocol is 8 shots per distance and not 6.   Noticed this while someone was doing putter testing today. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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31 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

No, actually referring to a nonmilled,no insert putter. A flat metal face. They have always been too harsh and hot for me. 

Ah;  most faces are milled in todays market even cast putters.  You are referring to the putter having milling marks,  

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  • 1 month later...

Once again a Scotty fares very poorly in a Most Wanted Study. Scotty’s are gorgeous and very popular, but they never do well in MGS study’s - I don’t get it…

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18 minutes ago, Middler said:

Once again a Scotty fares very poorly in a Most Wanted Study. Scotty’s are gorgeous and very popular, but they never do well in MGS study’s - I don’t get it…

Makes two of us. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

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16 minutes ago, Middler said:

Once again a Scotty fares very poorly in a Most Wanted Study. Scotty’s are gorgeous and very popular, but they never do well in MGS study’s - I don’t get it…

What s there to get?   Why do you think an off the rack Cameron should be near the top?   Probably one of the things is they tend to have smaller grips and if you are used to a large grip it could be a difficult transition.   During my testing session, I found the Scotty to be generally unforgiving and I struggled with distance control.  It was probably one of my worst performers in that area.   When looking at those results for a person, you are probably talking the difference in making/missing 3-4 putts at all the distances so the margins are thin between putters.   Let’s look back at your test and you indicated that they didn’t perform well and you missed left.  

I think it is largely that people see so many on tour that they think they should perform better even though those putters are custom fit to the player. Additionally, you can learn to putt with any putter that is out there.  As far as aesthetics go, I personally think they are putters that are much better looking; especially some of the boutique brands, but overall is average and I would change some of the looks for my personal preferences.  

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14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think it is largely that people see so many on tour that they think they should perform better even though those putters are custom fit to the player.

It’s not just tour use, scotty Cameron’s rank 1 or 2 in golf sales every year with odyssey being the the one they flip flop with. 
 

One probably needs to define what custom fit means for the tour players. Not all four players get to go see scotty and get custom fit. There is a scotty Tour rep that goes to every event and has a bunch of different putters. So they may be able to get some weights tweaked if the putter is using weights, along with loft, lie, length, grip. Nothing that someone couldn’t order thru their titleist account. Several of my scotty orders have been shorter with heavier than standard weights for the length ordered

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15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s not just tour use, scotty Cameron’s rank 1 or 2 in golf sales every year with odyssey being the the one they flip flop with. 
 

One probably needs to define what custom fit means for the tour players. Not all four players get to go see scotty and get custom fit. There is a scotty Tour rep that goes to every event and has a bunch of different putters. So they may be able to get some weights tweaked if the putter is using weights, along with loft, lie, length, grip. Nothing that someone couldn’t order thru their titleist account. Several of my scotty orders have been shorter with heavier than standard weights for the length ordered

You know quite well that sales does not correlate to performance.  People buy those putters because they think they perform better, the status, and because tour players use them.  while not every tour player goes to see Scotty, they most likely have a qualified professional helping them with their putter to make sure they perform optimally.  tour players also spend considerable time practicing their putting so they have a deep understanding on how those putters perform.   Whether it is feel or mechanics based, they know how far a ball will roll given a certain stroke; the people targeted for most wanted generally have no idea. 

The putters in the most wanted test are not fit to the player unless there is more than one model provided.  There was one Cameron with no weight, loft, lie, length, or grip adjustment available.  Some putters like the LAB and Evnroll have multiple configurations of the same model so we do get some fitting. 

Putting is one area that amateurs can be as proficient as a tour player but just buying a Scotty off the rack will not make you a tour caliber putter.  

as a person that said you were surprised that Cameron’s don’t perform better, what about them should make them be higher on the list?  
 

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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2 hours ago, cnosil said:

What s there to get?   Why do you think an off the rack Cameron should be near the top?

You know quite well that sales does not correlate to performance.  People buy those putters because they think they perform better, the status, and because tour players use them.  while not every tour player goes to see Scotty, they most likely have a qualified professional helping them with their putter to make sure they perform optimally.  tour players also spend considerable time practicing their putting so they have a deep understanding on how those putters perform.   Whether it is feel or mechanics based, they know how far a ball will roll given a certain stroke; the people targeted for most wanted generally have no idea.

It's just an observation on my part, not looking for a vigorous debate. I've lived in several places and Scotty's are coveted by most players I've known, and many people who don't spend a lot of their clubs will have a prized Scotty (including some who putt poorly?).

Obviously marketing and endorsement work for products (that's all in post #1), but in some cases that wanes as buyers realize performance just isn't all that. Not a great analogy, but there have been several cars that are hot sellers, that sell great in the first year and sales quickly decline over subsequent years until the model is discontinued (e.g. VW Beetle 2, Honda Element, etc.).

I guess putters is one of those products that mainstream buyers (most not on MGS) really can't see performance because they're not likely to have several putters to compare long term. They chalk up their poor putting to their deficiencies instead of the putter itself, which may/not be entirely true.

I was going to buy a Scotty until I actually tried two models that were of the most interest to me. I didn't like them at all, but maybe I would have grown into one of them. I'm just not willing to pay $430 to find out. As others have noted, you probably can't properly evaluate a putter in a golf store no matter how long you play with it - so most of us are stuck choosing a putter without much solid knowledge. And then of course we're not likely to conclude we've made a bad choice, even if we have...

[As an aside, I just looked at the 5 most wanted mallets from last year and there is no chance I would buy any of them based on looks or another feature alone (yes, I know MGS says that's a mistake). So while marketing and endorsements may explain Scotty sales/popularity, I think their looks and perceived craftsmanship has a lot to do with sales as well.]

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26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You know quite well that sales does not correlate to performance.  People buy those putters because they think they perform better, the status, and because tour players use them.  while not every tour player goes to see Scotty, they most likely have a qualified professional helping them with their putter to make sure they perform optimally.  tour players also spend considerable time practicing their putting so they have a deep understanding on how those putters perform.   Whether it is feel or mechanics based, they know how far a ball will roll given a certain stroke; the people targeted for most wanted generally have no idea. 

The putters in the most wanted test are not fit to the player unless there is more than one model provided.  There was one Cameron with no weight, loft, lie, length, or grip adjustment available.  Some putters like the LAB and Evnroll have multiple configurations of the same model so we do get some fitting. 

Putting is one area that amateurs can be as proficient as a tour player but just buying a Scotty off the rack will not make you a tour caliber putter.  

as a person that said you were surprised that Cameron’s don’t perform better, what about them should make them be higher on the list?  
 

 

There are several things that come out of the most wanted that are actually somewhat puzzling. Scotty Cameron’s not only sell well because of name recognition but they are some of the best made putters on the market. Pretty much every putter is a copy of another putter. While I don’t know any of the testers other than you my speculation is that there is brand bias that affects performance. Titleist, scotty have the better player or elitist stigma for whatever reason. My speculation is also there aren’t a lot of above average putters so inconsistency plays a role.

But like I mentioned it’s not just scotty but there are things like spiked and spikeless shoe results that leave out some of the best selling and performing along with popular shoes. Somehow the FJ pro s/l, Asia’s code chaos didn’t make the list yet when you search for reviews on shoes they are some of the most highly rated shoes.

Right or wrong these type of puzzling results are another reason I pay little attention to the results of most wanted testing. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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27 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There are several things that come out of the most wanted that are actually somewhat puzzling. Scotty Cameron’s not only sell well because of name recognition but they are some of the best made putters on the market. Pretty much every putter is a copy of another putter. While I don’t know any of the testers other than you my speculation is that there is brand bias that affects performance. Titleist, scotty have the better player or elitist stigma for whatever reason. My speculation is also there aren’t a lot of above average putters so inconsistency plays a role.

But like I mentioned it’s not just scotty but there are things like spiked and spikeless shoe results that leave out some of the best selling and performing along with popular shoes. Somehow the FJ pro s/l, Asia’s code chaos didn’t make the list yet when you search for reviews on shoes they are some of the most highly rated shoes.

Right or wrong these type of puzzling results are another reason I pay little attention to the results of most wanted testing. 

Interesting. Do you think “brand bias” affects all testing, not just putters? Are other putters losing-out because of this, or just Scotty? How could that be quantified? Serious questions, not trying to get in an argument…

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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51 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You know quite well that sales does not correlate to performance.  People buy those putters because they think they perform better, the status, and because tour players use them.  while not every tour player goes to see Scotty, they most likely have a qualified professional helping them with their putter to make sure they perform optimally.  tour players also spend considerable time practicing their putting so they have a deep understanding on how those putters perform.   Whether it is feel or mechanics based, they know how far a ball will roll given a certain stroke; the people targeted for most wanted generally have no idea. 

as a person that said you were surprised that Cameron’s don’t perform better, what about them should make them be higher on the list?  

 

... Some people have an excellent sense of feel, and Camerons have always had a nice balance and great feel. Others are more mechanical with their putting and feel or balance just doesn't enter in to it. I hold my putter so loose a gust of wind can almost blow it out of my hands and will move the head around on my longer pendulum stroke so it is a struggle for me to grip tighter and shorten my stroke. On those days balance and feel are out the window and I know plenty putt this way in ideal conditions.

... I just think putters are extremely personal and since it is moving so slowly compared to a golf swing the differences of comparative putters are minimal. Having played blade putters my entire golfing life, grainy Bermuda caused me to try out a mallet putter and I fully expected to buy a Cameron, Bettinardi or other high end putter but was still open to any of them and demoed every putter I could get my hands on. I ended up with a $129 Cleveland 11S and it might be the best putter purchase I have made. The balance and feel is just perfect for my stroke and without an open mind, I would never have demoed a "cheap" putter. 

... I also think some of us lifelong golf forum members that are serious about equipment lose sight of those targeted by the MGS testing and it is always nice to have that reminder from someone a testing insider. 👍

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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8 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Some people have an excellent sense of feel, and Camerons have always had a nice balance and great feel. Others are more mechanical with their putting and feel or balance just doesn't enter in to it.

.. I just think putters are extremely personal and since it is moving so slowly compared to a golf swing the differences of comparative putters are minimal.

We have had these discussions and you know I fall more toward the mechanical side. But I will say I am very in tune to feel and balance with putters.  How they move through the stroke is huge in my mind.   LAB putters are probably the most finicky when it comes to this; If you don’t have the right lie angle the putter will feel off.    Cameron’s are fine in my book, but I move away from them due to looks.   One of my visual cues and how I square the putter is the top line and I prefer a thicker top line when looking down at address.  Cameron’s are generally on the thinner side.  
 

putters are very personal, but I have seen measurements that show that center at these slow speeds similar putters do perform differently.  But that is my mechanical side looking for those differences that I feel when I use the club.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

We have had these discussions and you know I fall more toward the mechanical side. But I will say I am very in tune to feel and balance with putters.  How they move through the stroke is huge in my mind.   LAB putters are probably the most finicky when it comes to this; If you don’t have the right lie angle the putter will feel off. 
 

putters are very personal, but I have seen measurements that show that center at these slow speeds similar putters do perform differently.  But that is my mechanical side looking for those differences that I feel when I use the club.  

 

... When I pick up a putter and just take my normal stroke, many putter heads wander off the line and especially outside the line going back. Those just have a very bad balance for me and putters with at least some toe hang have much better balance for my stroke, but not all. Of course just being mechanical doesn't mean no feel or balance, I just saw so many average to poor putters grip their putters tightly and/or had a breakdown of their wrists basically flipping the putter head through impact. In both cases the balance and feel become irrelevant because you are not swinging the putter but "man handling" it. And to be fair I have seen a few man handlers that are good putters. You are so right, putters are very personal.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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57 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Interesting. Do you think “brand bias” affects all testing, not just putters? Are other putters losing-out because of this, or just Scotty? How could that be quantified? Serious questions, not trying to get in an argument…

I do think it affects all the club testing. Some of the same stigmas apply to the the brands whether it’s the same stigma for titleist, anti tm or anti Callaway bias as well. Whether that’s the color schemes, names, brand perceptions from marketing, thinking things are gimmicky or anything along those lines.

I don’t know what putters were submitted but I find it hard to believe seemore, bettinardi and Ping are worse than anything that won. Even Cleveland for the best value. Not sure if pxg was in the list but their putters are extremely underrated 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, chisag said:

Having played blade putters my entire golfing life, grainy Bermuda caused me to try out a mallet putter and I fully expected to buy a Cameron, Bettinardi or other high end putter but was still open to any of them and demoed every putter I could get my hands on. I ended up with a $129 Cleveland 11S and it might be the best putter purchase I have made. The balance and feel is just perfect for my stroke and without an open mind, I would never have demoed a "cheap" putter. 

I've got the 11S as well, bought solely because it fit the specs given to me at my TrueSpec putter fitting. I bought it because it was cheap and could give me a good sense of how the putter fitting would suit my game. (Plus, since it's cheap, I can always buy another one if I hate it and not feel like I just flushed 5 bills.) When I went back to TrueSpec for a follow-up, they added a half degree of loft, put on a SuperStroke grip, and said, "it's perfect for you. Did we fit you into this?"

My only complaint with the 11S is the sound. (It's very ting-y to my ear.) From a performance standpoint, though, I know that I can spend as much as I want and not improve upon how the ball leaves this face, and even Titleist will tell you when you putt on a launch monitor there is absolutely no difference putter to putter, ball to ball when using the same stroke, loft, lie, and weight. 

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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41 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t know what putters were submitted but I find it hard to believe seemore, bettinardi and Ping are worse than anything that won. Even Cleveland for the best value. Not sure if pxg was in the list but their putters are extremely underrated 

I don’t think there are any bad putters on the market.   I do believe that specific configurations of a putter influence how it works for a person.  That configuration includes but not entirely inclusive:  weight, offset, hosel location, alignment aids, and grip.

 

this is why we do putter fittings as the variables influence the setup and rotational aspects of the putter.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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10 minutes ago, greggarner said:

My only complaint with the 11S is the sound. (It's very ting-y to my ear.)

 

... I am a little surprised to hear this as my Stainless 11S has a more dense and solid sound than most every putter I demoed. It is so soft and reminds me of my original 8802 which is one of the things that won me over. Perhaps the Premier coating is to blame? 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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14 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I am a little surprised to hear this as my Stainless 11S has a more dense and solid sound than most every putter I demoed. It is so soft and reminds me of my original 8802 which is one of the things that won me over. Perhaps the Premier coating is to blame? 

Totally, totally possible... I wanted the regular stainless and not the premier. But it was backordered and I didn't want to wait 9 months, so I ponied up the extra $20 or whatever it was for the darker finish. 🤷‍♂️

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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  • 3 weeks later...

The most wanted test does not really prove in any way which putter is best.... That being said, Scotty's are way over rated... 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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5 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

.... That being said, Scotty's are way over rated... 

 

... It would be one thing if golf publications or forums promoted Camerons as the best, but they are widely used by many Am's so it is a tough sell to call them "over rated". Of course as a personal opinion almost everything is valid "I think they are over rated" is something nobody can disagree with other than a rebuttal of their own personal opinion. And to be fair I honestly don;t think there is any putter that can hole more putts than any other putter, it is all pretty much just personal preference as long as you are in the right putter for your stroke. Even then we saw great putters like Isao Aoki whose lie was so far off I am surprised he didn't plow some greens and plant some corn with his heel: 


isao-aoki-signed-photo-60618.jpg?h=400

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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11 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... It would be one thing if golf publications or forums promoted Camerons as the best, but they are widely used by many Am's so it is a tough sell to call them "over rated". Of course as a personal opinion almost everything is valid "I think they are over rated" is something nobody can disagree with other than a rebuttal of their own personal opinion. And to be fair I honestly don;t think there is any putter that can hole more putts than any other putter, it is all pretty much just personal preference as long as you are in the right putter for your stroke. Even then we saw great putters like Isao Aoki whose lie was so far off I am surprised he didn't plow some greens and plant some corn with his heel: 


isao-aoki-signed-photo-60618.jpg?h=400

That is fair, of all the scotty stuff, I like the futura stuff the best. The rest is just a more expensive version of the same putter everyone else is making. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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8 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

That is fair, of all the scotty stuff, I like the futura stuff the best. The rest is just a more expensive version of the same putter everyone else is making. 

 

... You are certainly far from alone in your opinion. 👍

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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