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MGS Beef with Rick Shiels? He addresses on his new podcast


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5 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

No doubt. I'm going to admit that I'm feeling a little keyboard warrior-esque today but I would also say that I would still support my thoughts if I were discussing it in person with someone from the MGS staff. I'm also guilty of being overly harsh from behind the keyboard from time to time. I kind of like what that one organization 60 Minutes was showing where they would have two people with very different political leanings sit down and have to have a conversation about the issues for an hour. The outcomes while talking in person and words being typed behind a keyboard are dramatically different. 

I would say though, that if we don't like something we're seeing, it's important to share that feedback. 

 

Not sure why anyone, including mgs, would be upset by anything you said. You were respectful with everything you said and were not overly critical at all. Geez, a little constructive criticism should be welcome by anyone. Consider what is said and make a decision on whether to act upon it. As long as the person criticizing is not being confrontational and overly antagonistic, it's no harm, no foul. 

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Very disappointed in MGS. If you are going to call someone out at least have the courage to identify yourself. I respect Rick’s opinions but they would not preclude my trying something out for myself. These “everyone had speed gains”  statements don’t  mean much to me either. I do not believe any of your staffers hit the ball as poorly as I do. “Your results may differ!” Rick could have said “contrary to the OEM whores over at MGS, I saw no gains at all, don’t waste your money!” But he did not say that. Good for him. 

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MGS is accountable for the posts made by their account, even if this post is the sole opinion of one member of the team. In this case, the "5-10" shots is a low-blow insult that's obviously untrue, and that'd be bad enough. It's entirely possible that Rick could genuinely not see speed gains while the entire team did. Peter Finch had similar findings to Rick's, with a little ball speed bump but not enough to fully differentiate. Caping up for TM in this way really calls into question MGS's ability to be objective across the board.

It shouldn't matter to a reviewer how hard or how long TM worked to create or test the club. If TM spent 20 years or 20 minutes creating the club, it now stands on its own and should be judged on its merits. Rick isn't their mom appreciating the gesture of a poorly made breakfast in bed on Mother's Day. They made a product and he's reviewing it on its merits. It literally doesn't matter at all how hard they worked on it.

The post reads like someone trying to defend a sibling against criticism. That's not the relationship I want my reviewers to have with their subjects. This will cause me to view MGS's subjective reviews with a lot more suspicion than I did previously.

 

Edited by shane_pech
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2 hours ago, Kansas King said:

I think MGS can do what they want, but as someone who has supported MGS in the past based on their mission of being independent and unbiased, growing the company with a bunch of sponsored or affiliated articles doesn't really do it for me. Then you throw in them defending TM and that doesn't really seam to align with the idea of being unbiased and independent. 

I don't want to overly bash MGS, I think they are well-meaning and do legitimately good work. I want them to succeed as I appreciate their testing and I appreciate them hosting this forum. My fear is that MGS is creeping closer to being the next Golf Digest. I think there are lots of ways for MGS to grow but it is harder if independence is going to remain a genuine part of their mission.

They’ve grown way more than just doin the “sponsored” articles. That’s just another aspect of what they’ve done and again thers really not a biased there unless someone wants to find it which apparently you have.

you need to re-read the comment about TM. They weren’t defending TM, but rather pointing out how rick does his reviews and how he could be doing better, and that really goes for any of the YouTube and online reviewers similar to rick. They also pointed out how clubs have been similar year after year and how with the new release of the stealth how that’s changed. Again no bias or defense of a company unless someone is set out to find it. Which seems to be your goal today

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Not sure where to start. I made a comment on this forum that I saw a few sites where the ball speed/distance numbers were not much different between SiM and Stealth, but mentioned no specific names. I watch multiple sites because I like seeing all of their opinions and gives some ideas on what I’d like to try. In the end, no matter what the information I’ve received, whether it be clubs, balls, shoes or whatever, it’s what works for me and my game. I don’t buy something and if it doesn’t work blame anyone from these sites for misleading me. 

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35 minutes ago, shane_pech said:

In this case, the "5-10" shots is a low-blow insult that's obviously untrue, and that'd be bad enough. It's entirely possible that Rick could genuinely not see speed gains while the entire team did.

That’s pretty much all rick hits when he reviews. Mgs pointed out that they do more intensive testing and have tons of data points. The amount of data they collect from one person in the most wanted test out does what rick does, now add in all the most wanted testers for drivers. The data blows ricks testing out of the water.

 

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1 hour ago, chisag said:

In comments both under reviews and on social media someone replying for MGS can get very defensive and disrespectful, so I rarely read those. When I do read them I like it much better when say "Tony" replies instead of "MGS" replies because I don't know who that is.

Well if it helps, it’s still pretty obvious who is writing those comments. That’s been a consistent tone and type of response throughout the years in and out of various staff changes. There’s still the one constant. 

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Interesting. I made a comment about TM Sim2 and Stealth regarding a video I saw from a British Pro, and someone jumped all over me about Rick Shiels...but I wasn't Rick Shiels! I don't know if this was a reader or MGS staffer. I've said it once and will say it again...MARKETING. That's all it is. I fit clubs, been to Callaway Performance Center, Titleist Performance Institute, TM The Kingdom, and Karsten Mfg...but was in executive sales and marketing for 35 years. IT'S ALL MARKETING. The name, the red face, the colored shaft, the script, the colorization...it's all marketing to get you to buy the product. Remember, what you buy and what the pro's hit are completely different.

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1 hour ago, shane_pech said:

He directly responded to that claim in the video linked at the beginning of this thread. It's simply not true. The shots that get shown on screen aren't the only shots that he hits. Same with Peter Finch or any of the other reviewers/channels. This is a classic case where it doesn't make sense to conflate testing and reviewing. MGS is the best at testing, no doubt. They don't have a monopoly on reviewing, and frankly this comment from their account helps me realize they might not understand the difference between the two.

Your right they don’t have a monopoly on it but they amount of data they have blows every forum and YouTube/social media reviewer out of the water. It’s not even close in what mgs does from reviews and testing. Ricks videos are almost predictable in what he will say. He’s also not going to out and our bash a company because he doesn’t want to end up like crossfields where he doesn’t get sent equipment to “review”. He will toe the line of negative and positives and that nothing is really that much better.

Those that are set in finding fault with something mgs says will read that into what was said in the reply. 

 

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Ricks testing numbers, from his personal test of the stealth vs SIM2, are available to see. I sure hope EVERY member of MGS testing group’s numbers will be available for us to see. Showing the “personal best ball speeds”, Or their AVERAGE numbers of their run with the Stealth vs Sim2.

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31 minutes ago, Tyler86 said:

Ricks testing numbers, from his personal test of the stealth vs SIM2, are available to see. I sure hope EVERY member of MGS testing group’s numbers will be available for us to see. Showing the “personal best ball speeds”, Or their AVERAGE numbers of their run with the Stealth vs Sim2.

You already know the answer to this;  they don't share the individual shot results from the individual testers.   We don't have our  personal best ball speeds;  I don't know mine to even state if it did beat my personal best.   We also don't test prior years drivers during the testing so it is impossible to compare without creating another test.  I will state that the Stealth's (there are  multiple models)  I have tested did not generate my fastest individual ball speed for the drivers.   I personally found the Stealth to be very consistent with ball speed across the face.

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Let the data do the talking. Unfortunately for Ric he comes off a salesman vs showing a piece of equipment, and his channel has become a bigger selling or purchasing point for some golfers… he generally takes the neutral position, for the most part picks the good shots which tend to bias vs the overall body of work of hundreds of shots it may take to give a full review beneficial for all. He is more of an influencer vs reviewer I would say in todays social media world

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@chisagto me has the best point (quite often I find this I might add) in the end it’s up to us as consumers to do our own due diligence. My wife and I had this same exact discussion last week (we were talking about at home Covid test kits).it doesn’t really matter what anyone says….MGS…..Tony……Harry……Rick or anyone. You can gather that information but in the end we as consumers need to make an informed decision, in this case what equipment is best for you.
 

Shoutout to @bens197 for giving me a chuckle 

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40 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You already know the answer to this;  they don't share the individual shot results from the individual testers.   We don't have our  personal best ball speeds;  I don't know mine to even state if it did beat my personal best.   We also don't test prior years drivers during the testing so it is impossible to compare without creating another test.  I will state that the Stealth's (there are  multiple models)  I have tested did not generate my fastest individual ball speed for the drivers.   I personally found the Stealth to be very consistent with ball speed across the face.

The user “MyGolfSpy” claimed that EVERY TESTER “recorded personal speed records”.    After poking holes in Ricks testing protocol. No disrespect, love MGS!

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4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s pretty much all rick hits when he reviews. Mgs pointed out that they do more intensive testing and have tons of data points. The amount of data they collect from one person in the most wanted test out does what rick does, now add in all the most wanted testers for drivers. The data blows ricks testing out of the water.

 

If you listened to Rick’s cast, he made it quite clear that he hit well over 100 balls. They only show a few for the videos. I’m not taking sides between the two but he did explain his testing methods. 

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14 minutes ago, Tyler86 said:

The user “MyGolfSpy” claimed that EVERY TESTER “recorded personal speed records”.    After poking holes in Ricks testing protocol. No disrespect, love MGS!

Incorrect.   The statement was:  'what I can tell you is that I have never seen a single product in the driver category produce ball speed personal records for EVERY staff member of MGS that tested the product."   The majority of the  most wanted testers are not staff members.  I am a most wanted tester and am not a staff member.  

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