MGS Beef with Rick Shiels? He addresses on his new podcast

[RickyBobby_PR 9,607]

37 minutes ago, LICC said:

I don't understand this. Shiels hit over 120 balls on one day and then more the next. How many do you think he needs to hit to get enough data and experience to give an informed opinion. And I find his reviews aren't all the same. He gives his data and his impressions on feel, sound, accuracy, etc. and they differ for each video.

That still isn’t even close to the data that mgs has, which is what the mgs reply want pointing out as well as the type of analysis mgs does is far more in depth than Rick. 
 

Rick and his channel went from somewhat of a channel mixed with golf tips and swing reviews to more of an entertainment channel with more reviews and some change in his approach. Don’t fault him for it, he’s trying to monetize his channel and he’s more for the average golfer. I would rather watch a 10 min video from Michael newton on a product than Rick. 
 

once he really made this switch he doesn’t say anything negative that’s going to keep him from getting gear to test. So his reviews will always be down the middle. 
 

But again those that have some run with mgs on any issue are going to find it with their reply and inclusion of Rick. But you you replace Rick with a number of YouTube reviewers and it’s applicable 

[Middler 3,588]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

If this response was from an official MGS representative, then this is a black mark for MGS. The 5-10 shots comment was silly and insulting Shiels seems unwarranted and petty.

I wouldn't think MGS would allow a comment on their website by a user named MYGOLFSPY that wasn't an official MGS rep.

[StrokerAce 11,771]

...whoa, they sure stepped in it here.  

not the first time; won't be the last.

[Middler 3,588]

YouTube Channel | Subscribers

• Rick Shiels 2,010K
• MeAndMyGolf 808K
• Danny Maude 662K
• Clay Ballard 574K
• Peter Finch 459K
• Mark Crossfield 360K
• Chris Ryan 312K
• MrShortGame 286K
• Paige Spiranac 260K
• Golf Digest 192K
• James Robinson 185K
• TXG 176K
• Seb 134K
• GolfMonthly 118K
• Ali Taylor 74K
• Ales Etches 68K
• TheAverageGolfer 59K
• Michael Newton 56K
• MGS 47K

One of the above is included as a joke for those who thrive on picking nits...

Again, MGS was out of line in how "they" went after Shiels IMO, but obviously he knows his lane better than almost anyone on YouTube. It is how he makes his living...it ain't rickshiels.org.

[StrokerAce 11,771]

3 minutes ago, Middler said:

Channel | Subscribers

• Rick Shiels 2,010K
• MeAndMyGolf 808K
• Danny Maude 662K
• Clay Ballard 574K
• Peter Finch 459K
• Mark Crossfield 360K
• MrShortGame 286K
• Paige Spiranac 260K
• James Robinson 185K
• TXG 176K
• Seb 134K
• GolfMonthly 118K
• Ali Taylor 74K
• Ales Etches 68K
• TheAverageGolfer 59K
• Michael Newton 56K
• MGS 47K

One of the above is included as a joke...

Again, MGS was out of line in how they went after Shiels IMO, but obviously he knows his lane better than almost anyone on YouTube. It is how he makes his living...it ain't RS.org.

 Posted yesterday; already 80k+ views and 500 comments; most of which slam MGS...

[cnosil 25,252]

9 minutes ago, Middler said:

YouTube Channel | Subscribers

• Rick Shiels 2,010K
•  
• Paige Spiranac 260K
•  

 

That is just shocking.  

[Rob W. 27]

In my opinion neither MGS nor Rick are reporting testing results, they are reporting reviews.  If they wanted REAL testing, set up the robot, and let it swing away with every driver that comes out.  They did it with the ball test. Why? because the robot gives you the most consistent & controlled data points. 

The reply that a robot doesn't represent the average golfer is BS.  You can set up the robot to replicate off center hits, steep and shallow hits.  Any swing fault can be simulated.  But we don't ever see that data because it would end the debates and would make marketing hype transparent.

As far as this squabble goes, Rick never claims to be doing controlled tests.  He does the kind of tests that you and I can do at the PGA superstore or Golf Galaxy.  MGS is the place that executes more controlled tests, so they needed to take the high road on this one.  The response needed to be less personal in nature.  

 

[chisag 18,578]

46 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I hope it didn't come off as though I think Stealth is going to be significantly better than anything else that comes out this year from a performance standpoint. I don't really think MGS Staff believes that either to be honest.

 

... Not at all. Just because a product is revolutionary doesn't mean that it will be better for everyone but it will be better or at the bare minimum, different. So I think reviewers that see bare bones changes from generation to generation with a different color or other minor change, can get a little excited about something completely new. And as MGS stated, every staff member saw a ball speed increase which of course is factual. Whether or not that ball speed increase gives them better overall performance is a completely different animal and will come out in their review.  Which gets us back to attacking Rick, at least in the one reply, I also have no doubt Rick did not see a ball speed increase for whatever reason which may be just a result of how he swings a driver and of course that is the crux of reviews and potential buyers. Just because it was better for those testing does not mean it will be better for you, but with so many new products every year, these reviews gives you a great starting point and can narrow the field. 

[fixyurdivot 17,425]

1 hour ago, StrokerAce said:

 Posted yesterday; already 80k+ views and 500 comments; most of which slam MGS...

Okay, this post finally pushed me over the edge and I watched the video.  At 01:24 Guy is stating that "MGS is claiming massive gains in ball speeds across the testers"... umm, no they didn't.  They simply stated that it was the first time all testers thus far have recorded their highest ball speeds.  Personal best does not equate to massive.  It may be increases in the tenths and possibly within the testers STD if they hit that same driver over multiple days. Just another example of comment taken out of context. 

Conversely, the claim that Rick only hits 5-10 shots with the Stealth (and seemed to imply this is his basic testing approach with all clubs) seems odd; from whoever it was they were quoting (do we know?).  Clearly Rick's reaction says that's poppycock which begs the question who was it and what is their basis for saying that?

So here we are, two really great entities trying their best to provide the golfing populous around the globe with some good data about new products, having a pissing match which may very well be much to do about nothing.  

Personally, simply from a testing format, I give the nod to MGS. Having a group of testers whose ball striking capabilities represent the cross-section of the golfing population, and who (I'm pretty sure) have no personal stake that would sway their feedback, or cook-the-books so to speak in their effort to give all products their best chance, is solid. Rick, TXG, and many others do great work, but I often don't find my game in their way better than average ball striking prowess.

I'd love to hear that Adam and Rick threw back a few beers at some point and chuckled about some out of context comments gone wild.

 

 

[TR1PTIK 3,554]

51 minutes ago, Rob W. said:

The reply that a robot doesn't represent the average golfer is BS.  You can set up the robot to replicate off center hits, steep and shallow hits.  Any swing fault can be simulated

Why spend the money and time having a robot replicate the shots of average golfers when you can just have average golfers hit shots?

I get that people want apples-to-apples comparisons of equipment, but you could attach the club to a pole and have a robot swing it and it's not going to correlate to the average golfer. Average is average, as in most common. When you have actual golfers test equipment, they aren't going to hit the center of the face with any level of precision; their shot pattern is going to move around and you will achieve exactly the result you're asking for. I think the people clamoring for this type of test simply don't understand what it is they're asking for or what it would mean - and in relation to the golfing consumer that is precisely nothing.

[John Bachman 55]

18 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Okay, this post finally pushed me over the edge and I watched the video.  At 01:24 Guy is stating that "MGS is claiming massive gains in ball speeds across the testers"... umm, no they didn't.  They simply stated that it was the first time all testers thus far have recorded their highest ball speeds.  Personal best does not equate to massive.  It may be increases in the tenths and possibly within the testers STD if they hit that same driver over multiple days. Just another example of comment taken out of context. 

Conversely, the claim that Rick only hits 5-10 shots with the Stealth (and seemed to imply this his basic testing approach with all clubs) seems odd; from whoever it was they were quoting (do we know?).  Clearly Rick's reaction says that's poppycock which begs the question who was it and what is their basis for saying that?

So here we are, two really great entities trying their best to provide the golfing populous around the globe with some good data about new products, having a pissing match which may very well be much to do about nothing.  

Personally, simply from a testing format, I give the nod to MGS. Having a group of testers whose ball striking capabilities represent the cross-section of the golfing population, and who (I'm pretty sure) have no personal stake that would sway their feedback, or cook-the-books so to speak in their effort to give all products their best chance, is solid. Rick, TXG, and many others do great work, but I often don't find my game in their way better than average ball striking prowess.

I'd love to hear that Adam and Rick threw back a few beers at some point and chuckled about some out of context comments gone wild.

 

 

I’ve never really delved into MGS’s testing too deeply. It might be good in the future to break down their testing data into handicap ranges. Maybe they do this already. I’m a 4 handicap and really don’t need to know the results from testers who may be a 10+ handicap. Like I said, I don’t do a total breakdown of their data results. As with MGS and other sites, I use their reviews and info as a starting point and to get ideas on equipment I may not have known or thought of. 

[bens197 12,377]

25 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Okay, this post finally pushed me over the edge and I watched the video.  At 01:24 Guy is stating that "MGS is claiming massive gains in ball speeds across the testers"... umm, no they didn't.  They simply stated that it was the first time all testers thus far have recorded their highest ball speeds.  Personal best does not equate to massive.  It may be increases in the tenths and possibly within the testers STD if they hit that same driver over multiple days. Just another example of comment taken out of context. 

 

 

 

Dude...great find...And this right here is a big reason why I don't listen to the fools who just want views and clicks.  

Maybe it's why I like and have stuck around MGS in contrast.  None of this nonsense.

 

[fixyurdivot 17,425]

2 minutes ago, John Bachman said:

I’ve never really delved into MGS’s testing too deeply. It might be good in the future to break down their testing data into handicap ranges. Maybe they do this already. I’m a 4 handicap and really don’t need to know the results from testers who may be a 10+ handicap. Like I said, I don’t do a total breakdown of their data results. As with MGS and other sites, I use their reviews and info as a starting point and to get ideas on equipment I may not have known or thought of. 

Some of the testers "MGS Hit Squad" are regulars here on the forum.  I don't know their exact make-up of playing capability but, largely based on discussions from them in numerous threads, it sounds like they cover the spectrum of ball striking capability.  I think I heard some talk about them creating a "Hit Squad Player Profile" at some point?

[LICC 383]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That still isn’t even close to the data that mgs has, which is what the mgs reply want pointing out as well as the type of analysis mgs does is far more in depth than Rick. 
 

Rick and his channel went from somewhat of a channel mixed with golf tips and swing reviews to more of an entertainment channel with more reviews and some change in his approach. Don’t fault him for it, he’s trying to monetize his channel and he’s more for the average golfer. I would rather watch a 10 min video from Michael newton on a product than Rick. 
 

once he really made this switch he doesn’t say anything negative that’s going to keep him from getting gear to test. So his reviews will always be down the middle. 
 

But again those that have some run with mgs on any issue are going to find it with their reply and inclusion of Rick. But you you replace Rick with a number of YouTube reviewers and it’s applicable 

I think that saying the new model doesn't provide much if any improvement over the prior year's model (or even the model from 5 years ago which I have seen him do) is a negative. He has also talked about how some clubs vary greatly on mishits while others do well in this area. He often gives varying opinions on sound and feel, both positive and negative. 

Edited January 13 by LICC

[LICC 383]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Okay, this post finally pushed me over the edge and I watched the video.  At 01:24 Guy is stating that "MGS is claiming massive gains in ball speeds across the testers"... umm, no they didn't.  They simply stated that it was the first time all testers thus far have recorded their highest ball speeds.  Personal best does not equate to massive.  It may be increases in the tenths and possibly within the testers STD if they hit that same driver over multiple days. Just another example of comment taken out of context. 

The MGS post on the Stealth driver said this, which seems consistent with Guy's description:

"Out of the gate, in our range session with Trackman and TaylorMade TP5 balls, we saw exceptional results.

These days, I typically hover around 158 mph ball speed. With the Stealth Plus, I repeatedly hit 162 and change (a personal best for me). Obvious (though not massive) mishits dipped to 158 mph or so while the total trash typically stayed above 150.

Our Harry Nodwell plays professionally. He’s typically in the 178 mph range but he repeatedly and consistently broke 180, including a personal best of 181.4.

There appears to be real juice in the Stealth."

 

[RickyBobby_PR 9,607]

55 minutes ago, John Bachman said:

I’ve never really delved into MGS’s testing too deeply. It might be good in the future to break down their testing data into handicap ranges. Maybe they do this already. I’m a 4 handicap and really don’t need to know the results from testers who may be a 10+ handicap. Like I said, I don’t do a total breakdown of their data results. As with MGS and other sites, I use their reviews and info as a starting point and to get ideas on equipment I may not have known or thought of. 

Not all handicaps are achieved the same way. Some guys regardless of handicap can have good short game and mediocre tee and iron. What if some high handicaps are long but lack distance control with irons and wedges (there’s some around here like that) 

it’s doesn’t make much sense to go by handicap.

21 minutes ago, LICC said:

I think that saying the new model doesn't provide much if any improvement over the prior year's model (or even the model from 5 years ago which I have seen him do) is a negative. He has also talked about how some clubs vary greatly on mishits while others do well in this area. He often gives varying opinions on sound and feel, both positive and negative. 

That’s pretty much what everyone says and data shows that. Even mgs says it and put it in the reply on that post. many say that ifs 3-7 years depending on which part of the bag one is looking at.

Everyone so focused on year to year but forget that there’s lots of golfers who have 3 year old+ clubs in their bag. Rick and all the other reviews aren’t doing anything other than a comparison year to year. Yes Rick did his 5 year test a few years back but even that lacks the amount of data that mgs has.
 Many amateurs looking for the magic bullet in a club and not interested in doing the work to get better or longer
 

 

[TR1PTIK 3,554]

25 minutes ago, LICC said:

The MGS post on the Stealth driver said this, which seems consistent with Guy's description:

"Out of the gate, in our range session with Trackman and TaylorMade TP5 balls, we saw exceptional results.

These days, I typically hover around 158 mph ball speed. With the Stealth Plus, I repeatedly hit 162 and change (a personal best for me). Obvious (though not massive) mishits dipped to 158 mph or so while the total trash typically stayed above 150.

Our Harry Nodwell plays professionally. He’s typically in the 178 mph range but he repeatedly and consistently broke 180, including a personal best of 181.4.

There appears to be real juice in the Stealth."

 

It really just depends on your definition of "massive", but I think you make a fair point here.

[OldBoyEd 4]

go after the top dog i suppose. RS is not the only reviewer to be underwhelmed by the stealth and see zero to minimal gains. i don't understand why it got personal and kiddie playground-ish. odd

[TR1PTIK 3,554]

15 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

I have no ax to grind here. Not a Rick Shiels fan or detractors (I actually lean toward the Average Golfer, as his game is close to mine.) However, many of you are being a bit contradictory in defending MGS for their independence and criticizing Rick for never saying anything negative when this all started because someone at MGS felt he was being unfairly negative toward TaylorMade. Sure sounds like in this instance Rick was being more independent than MGS would have liked. He's not the only reviewer out there who has been underwhelmed with the stealth. I haven't seen any bad reviews, but quite a few have suggested minimal gains. 

I think the reason for the MGS reply is they felt Rick was doing some sort of disservice to the golf consumer by not being more specific about what makes the Stealth driver special. I don't feel it was handled correctly, but I do believe that is the driving force behind the response as alluded to when the (for now) anonymous staffer said,

"When it comes to the Stealth, what I can tell you is that I have never seen a single product in the driver category produce ball speed personal records for EVERY staff member of MGS that tested the product. That is a first. Will it be better for everyone, maybe not, but you need to give kudos to something when it actually deserves it.

This wasn’t just words and an ad, they actually pushed an envelope and made something better and moved a technology forward for golfers. And trust me that is more than a lot of the products we see that come across our facility.

I give a golf clap to what they did this year, it was a lot of work and work they should be proud of."

[RickyBobby_PR 9,607]

8 minutes ago, OldBoyEd said:

go after the top dog i suppose. RS is not the only reviewer to be underwhelmed by the stealth and see zero to minimal gains. i don't understand why it got personal and kiddie playground-ish. odd

They didn’t go after Rick Shiels. The person who posted the comment they replied to referenced Rick Shiels for their point.