MGS Beef with Rick Shiels? He addresses on his new podcast

[cnosil]

Was having a discussion with someone about the MGS perspective/visual/appearance  and this came to mind:

 

[Rob W.]

13 hours ago, cnosil said:

What you are missing is that a robot doesn't react to feel and looks;  it swings on the plane that is setup.  People react to feels,  I may leave the face open because of how it feels or because of visual queues hit snap hooks.  

Very True.  But Feel & Looks are a subjective review factors.  Ball speed, spin, distance are all numerical data points.

If you don't want to test forgiveness, then don't test mishits.  Set up the robot at 115mph for xstiff, 100 for stiff, 85 for regular and hit 25 shots with the standard set up and standard shaft.   I'll go on a very short limb and guess that the longest driver in that test would outsell the "most wanted" one.

There is a space out there in the golf influencer universe for someone willing to upset the OEM's.

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I am fine with robot testing but it really doesn’t help me as a player.  You have stated several times that fastest one a robot is fastest for a player.  Having tested lots of drivers including most of this years releases different drivers work better for player misses…One might be better high toe while another low heel.   I also know that  I swing different drivers at different speeds.  Sure I could customize the driver and maybe change increase speed but that doesn’t guarantee I would get same results as a robot.  Either way, robot testing is a valid test and can reveal information about a club.  That said, the intent of MGS testing is putting stock OTR configurations in a persons hands to see what works best for the masses.  They do this because 99% of all golfers purchase OTR without fitting.  Your last statement isn’t placebo, it is how people react to clubs.  

as for my evaluation, the Stealth has not been the “fastest” single top ball speed driver for me, but it was probably the most consistent for ball speeds when I miss hit the ball.  For me the Callaway and Cobra were faster based on single ball speed. 

This is almost certainly my professional background speaking here but... "time for some Robot vs. Hit Squad testing"  We can neither refute nor support the claims without the data.  The challenge has been made; let's do this .

 

[cnosil]

23 minutes ago, Rob W. said:

But Feel & Looks are a subjective review factors.  Ball speed, spin, distance are all numerical data points.

 

My personal opinion on looks and feel is subjective.   How a person swings a particular club is what is being measured and the persons adaptation to everything about that club is what influences those numbers.  This is why different weighting, shafts, heads, and even how a club looks impacts how a club performs.  Ever said something like “this clubs looks really closed at address but I hit it so well” or “this club looks great, I don’t know why it performs poorly”.  

[Rob W.]

3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Ever said something like “this clubs looks really closed at address but I hit it so well” or “this club looks great, I don’t know why it performs poorly”.  

That's why I play a 10 year old hybrid (only one that doesn't set up open) - but that's not on me 

BTW.  In 15+ years of being an equipment fan boy there is only one marketing claim I can support.  The Ping G400max is the most forgiving driver ever.  I try to replace it every year and always go back to it. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

26 minutes ago, Rob W. said:

That's why I play a 10 year old hybrid (only one that doesn't set up open) - but that's not on me 

BTW.  In 15+ years of being an equipment fan boy there is only one marketing claim I can support.  The Ping G400max is the most forgiving driver ever.  I try to replace it every year and always go back to it. 

That’s a whole other topic because forgiveness comes in different ways for different people. The g400 max wasn’t a good fit for me because the standard g400  produced better results. Others the lst is more forgiving because it’s knock’s off spin and improved launch characteristics. 

[cardia10]

The thing I have noticed most after watching every video review of the Stealth, not including robot testing as other than Moe Norman, we aren't robots, and every review and data set provided basically show that overall carry and total distance is down with this driver. There may be a reason the C4 was a flop 20 years ago and hasn't been revisited until now. This could be TM's C4 flop or it could be fan boyed in sales but fall off like the SLDR that fits merely a handful of people. Time will tell, but from everyone giving it an honest, real life, non robotic review, it just isn't that impressive. Maybe TM is just prepping for the rolling back of distance from clubs....

Edited January 14, 2022 by cardia10

[chisag]

3 hours ago, sixcat said:

TaylorMade massively overhyping a product? I don't believe you!!!

 

... I am always a little chagrinned by golfers on golf forums complaining about hype and the marketing of golf clubs. Have you looked at new cars? Washers and dryers? Refrigerators? Audio/video equipment? Even buying stainless steel pots and pans you have to wade through the marketing of 1 ply, 3 ply or 5 ply and what about their bonding layers and or brand reputation makes them so much better. And this is just a stainless steel fry pan you put food in and cook, so really how different could they be? Fwiw, I ended up going with Misen and you can enjoy the "massively overhyped product" in the link below. I will say I am very happy with the purchase but had to compare all the top brands before making a decision. I would add I have always enjoyed Marketing and love reading between the lines before making my own decisions. 

... Capitalism promotes building a better mouse trap and hyping the he!! out of it. Did anyone need a Chia Pet?  As always it is the job of the consumer to research, try/demo and sift through the marketing. I imagine consumers might be a bit disillusioned to visit the TM website and see "We introduced a new driver. Made of Carbon and not Titanium. It tested well but it may or may not perform better than the driver you are playing. Email us for pictures". 


https://misen.com/pages/skillet-campaign?utm_content=TRYMISEN25&utm_price=57&utm_savings=18&utm_percent=25&msclkid=96764662b3e716ae27e52783020dc3a6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search+|+Brand+|+Misen+MC+CPA25&utm_term=misen+cookware

[cnosil]

8 minutes ago, chisag said:

Did anyone need a Chia Pet?

Yes

[sixcat]

25 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I am always a little chagrinned by golfers on golf forums complaining about hype and the marketing of golf clubs. Have you looked at new cars? Washers and dryers? Refrigerators? Audio/video equipment? Even buying stainless steel pots and pans you have to wade through the marketing of 1 ply, 3 ply or 5 ply and what about their bonding layers and or brand reputation makes them so much better. And this is just a stainless steel fry pan you put food in and cook, so really how different could they be? Fwiw, I ended up going with Misen and you can enjoy the "massively overhyped product" in the link below. I will say I am very happy with the purchase but had to compare all the top brands before making a decision. I would add I have always enjoyed Marketing and love reading between the lines before making my own decisions. 

... Capitalism promotes building a better mouse trap and hyping the he!! out of it. Did anyone need a Chia Pet?  As always it is the job of the consumer to research, try/demo and sift through the marketing. I imagine consumers might be a bit disillusioned to visit the TM website and see "We introduced a new driver. Made of Carbon and not Titanium. It tested well but it may or may not perform better than the driver you are playing. Email us for pictures". 


https://misen.com/pages/skillet-campaign?utm_content=TRYMISEN25&utm_price=57&utm_savings=18&utm_percent=25&msclkid=96764662b3e716ae27e52783020dc3a6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search+|+Brand+|+Misen+MC+CPA25&utm_term=misen+cookware

Yeah, but do your new pots and pans give you an additional 17 yards guaranteed?

For what it’s worth, I’m always a bit “chagrined” at the level of whataboutism the world has morphed itself into. Nicely done!

[GolfSpy MPR]

Suspecting there might be subtext here:

 

[bens197]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Yeah, but do your new pots and pans give you an additional 17 yards guaranteed?

For what it’s worth, I’m always a bit “chagrined” at the level of whataboutism the world has morphed itself into. Nicely done!

Nice to see you back here, hope you're doing well.

[GolfSpy BOS]

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Yeah, but do your new pots and pans give you an additional 17 yards guaranteed?

For what it’s worth, I’m always a bit “chagrined” at the level of whataboutism the world has morphed itself into. Nicely done!

maybe not 17 yards.... but...

can your DRIVER do that!? I didn't think so. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

5 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

maybe not 17 yards.... but...

can your DRIVER do that!? I didn't think so. 

Thanks now I’m hungry. 

[HDTVMAN]

MGS says that if you purchase a product linked to their site they get paid. OK, fair enough, but that also affects fair and balanced (sorry FOX) opinions. Money Money Money...the only person you can trust regarding anything is yourself and your decision.

[Lacassem]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I am always a little chagrinned by golfers on golf forums complaining about hype and the marketing of golf clubs. Have you looked at new cars? Washers and dryers? Refrigerators? Audio/video equipment? Even buying stainless steel pots and pans you have to wade through the marketing of 1 ply, 3 ply or 5 ply and what about their bonding layers and or brand reputation makes them so much better. And this is just a stainless steel fry pan you put food in and cook, so really how different could they be? Fwiw, I ended up going with Misen and you can enjoy the "massively overhyped product" in the link below. I will say I am very happy with the purchase but had to compare all the top brands before making a decision. I would add I have always enjoyed Marketing and love reading between the lines before making my own decisions. 

... Capitalism promotes building a better mouse trap and hyping the he!! out of it. Did anyone need a Chia Pet?  As always it is the job of the consumer to research, try/demo and sift through the marketing. I imagine consumers might be a bit disillusioned to visit the TM website and see "We introduced a new driver. Made of Carbon and not Titanium. It tested well but it may or may not perform better than the driver you are playing. Email us for pictures". 


https://misen.com/pages/skillet-campaign?utm_content=TRYMISEN25&utm_price=57&utm_savings=18&utm_percent=25&msclkid=96764662b3e716ae27e52783020dc3a6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search+|+Brand+|+Misen+MC+CPA25&utm_term=misen+cookware

Listen all I know is a finger can poke a hole in 1/3/5/18 ply TP. Just stick with the 1 ply!

[Rob W.]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

Yes

Is Jan 18th too soon to have a "post of the year" winner?

 

[Thin2win]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Suspecting there might be subtext here:

 

Subtext or not, MGS going after any other party for any reason comes across as very petty and holier than thou.

I'm not even sure what Tony's point here would be. Any of the YouTube reviews take their jobs seriously, the reviews take them days to put together. They easily hit 200-300 shots with each driver they test. If one of them doesn't see any difference after 200 shots... How many more do they need to hit? 

Also, from as many as I've watched, they do often point out that different people will get different results and that all they can do is give their own feedback and opinion on any given product. 

At least twice in the last year Rick has even mentioned that the testing protocol that MGS uses vastly exceeds anything else available and is a real test where he is giving a review. 

I'm having to separate the forums from the blog lately. The forum is still one of the best spots, if not the best, for great discussion and content. The Blog however has become increasingly an echo chamber of less data and more opinion articles. I've actually ceased getting my information on product releases from the main page. I get it, they like Titleist golf balls, TM drivers, mizuno irons and fujikura shafts. 

 

[John Bachman]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I am always a little chagrinned by golfers on golf forums complaining about hype and the marketing of golf clubs. Have you looked at new cars? Washers and dryers? Refrigerators? Audio/video equipment? Even buying stainless steel pots and pans you have to wade through the marketing of 1 ply, 3 ply or 5 ply and what about their bonding layers and or brand reputation makes them so much better. And this is just a stainless steel fry pan you put food in and cook, so really how different could they be? Fwiw, I ended up going with Misen and you can enjoy the "massively overhyped product" in the link below. I will say I am very happy with the purchase but had to compare all the top brands before making a decision. I would add I have always enjoyed Marketing and love reading between the lines before making my own decisions. 

... Capitalism promotes building a better mouse trap and hyping the he!! out of it. Did anyone need a Chia Pet?  As always it is the job of the consumer to research, try/demo and sift through the marketing. I imagine consumers might be a bit disillusioned to visit the TM website and see "We introduced a new driver. Made of Carbon and not Titanium. It tested well but it may or may not perform better than the driver you are playing. Email us for pictures". 


https://misen.com/pages/skillet-campaign?utm_content=TRYMISEN25&utm_price=57&utm_savings=18&utm_percent=25&msclkid=96764662b3e716ae27e52783020dc3a6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search+|+Brand+|+Misen+MC+CPA25&utm_term=misen+cookware

If this were a forum on cars, refrigerators or pots and pans we may be criticizing the over hype, but this is a golf forum   

[russtopherb]

11 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I'm having to separate the forums from the blog lately. The forum is still one of the best spots, if not the best, for great discussion and content. The Blog however has become increasingly an echo chamber of less data and more opinion articles. I've actually ceased getting my information on product releases from the main page. I get it, they like Titleist golf balls, TM drivers, mizuno irons and fujikura shafts. 

If John B writes it, I'll happily read it. Anyone else, however...