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MGS Beef with Rick Shiels? He addresses on his new podcast


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9 hours ago, Moose4282 said:

Sooo change the balance of the club… shafts, weights, grips… pretty standard stuff. If you are talking about cog placement… thats silly. Now i will say there can be placebo. For example if a club seems to not go left on a player, then they are more apt to swing harder because they dont fear that miss. Still doesnt invalidate a robot test to see of a face is faster or not

I am fine with robot testing but it really doesn’t help me as a player.  You have stated several times that fastest one a robot is fastest for a player.  Having tested lots of drivers including most of this years releases different drivers work better for player misses…One might be better high toe while another low heel.   I also know that  I swing different drivers at different speeds.  Sure I could customize the driver and maybe change increase speed but that doesn’t guarantee I would get same results as a robot.  Either way, robot testing is a valid test and can reveal information about a club.  That said, the intent of MGS testing is putting stock OTR configurations in a persons hands to see what works best for the masses.  They do this because 99% of all golfers purchase OTR without fitting.  Your last statement isn’t placebo, it is how people react to clubs.  

as for my evaluation, the Stealth has not been the “fastest” single top ball speed driver for me, but it was probably the most consistent for ball speeds when I miss hit the ball.  For me the Callaway and Cobra were faster based on single ball speed. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I can't speak to what was said on the main site as I don't know who/why what was said was said?

Whoever it was should step up. Staff is usually good about posting under their own handle. Making a comment like that behind a generic screen name is bush league and a huge disappointment. Not what I would have expected out of a site that claims to be all about truth and being transparent.

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In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:wilson_staff_small:  D7 
:cleveland-small: Hy-Wood
:wilson_staff_small: D200 5i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: #10
 

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TaylorMade massively overhyping a product? I don't believe you!!! /s

On a serious note, just my 30-mile view of this situation but MGS comes off quite petty, territorial and butthurt. Not a good look for MGS but that has been the rule rather than the exception of late. Which is why I find myself spending more of my time elsewhere. 

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Was having a discussion with someone about the MGS perspective/visual/appearance  and this came to mind:

 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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13 hours ago, cnosil said:

What you are missing is that a robot doesn't react to feel and looks;  it swings on the plane that is setup.  People react to feels,  I may leave the face open because of how it feels or because of visual queues hit snap hooks.  

Very True.  But Feel & Looks are a subjective review factors.  Ball speed, spin, distance are all numerical data points.

If you don't want to test forgiveness, then don't test mishits.  Set up the robot at 115mph for xstiff, 100 for stiff, 85 for regular and hit 25 shots with the standard set up and standard shaft.   I'll go on a very short limb and guess that the longest driver in that test would outsell the "most wanted" one.

There is a space out there in the golf influencer universe for someone willing to upset the OEM's.

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I am fine with robot testing but it really doesn’t help me as a player.  You have stated several times that fastest one a robot is fastest for a player.  Having tested lots of drivers including most of this years releases different drivers work better for player misses…One might be better high toe while another low heel.   I also know that  I swing different drivers at different speeds.  Sure I could customize the driver and maybe change increase speed but that doesn’t guarantee I would get same results as a robot.  Either way, robot testing is a valid test and can reveal information about a club.  That said, the intent of MGS testing is putting stock OTR configurations in a persons hands to see what works best for the masses.  They do this because 99% of all golfers purchase OTR without fitting.  Your last statement isn’t placebo, it is how people react to clubs.  

as for my evaluation, the Stealth has not been the “fastest” single top ball speed driver for me, but it was probably the most consistent for ball speeds when I miss hit the ball.  For me the Callaway and Cobra were faster based on single ball speed. 

This is almost certainly my professional background speaking here but... "time for some Robot vs. Hit Squad testing" 😆 We can neither refute nor support the claims without the data.  The challenge has been made; let's do this 👍.

Rock Em Sock Em Robots Gif GIFs | Tenor

 

  • Haha 6

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Rob W. said:

But Feel & Looks are a subjective review factors.  Ball speed, spin, distance are all numerical data points.

 

My personal opinion on looks and feel is subjective.   How a person swings a particular club is what is being measured and the persons adaptation to everything about that club is what influences those numbers.  This is why different weighting, shafts, heads, and even how a club looks impacts how a club performs.  Ever said something like “this clubs looks really closed at address but I hit it so well” or “this club looks great, I don’t know why it performs poorly”.  

  • Like 5

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Ever said something like “this clubs looks really closed at address but I hit it so well” or “this club looks great, I don’t know why it performs poorly”.  

That's why I play a 10 year old hybrid (only one that doesn't set up open) - but that's not on me 🙄😂

BTW.  In 15+ years of being an equipment fan boy there is only one marketing claim I can support.  The Ping G400max is the most forgiving driver ever.  I try to replace it every year and always go back to it. 

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26 minutes ago, Rob W. said:

That's why I play a 10 year old hybrid (only one that doesn't set up open) - but that's not on me 🙄😂

BTW.  In 15+ years of being an equipment fan boy there is only one marketing claim I can support.  The Ping G400max is the most forgiving driver ever.  I try to replace it every year and always go back to it. 

That’s a whole other topic because forgiveness comes in different ways for different people. The g400 max wasn’t a good fit for me because the standard g400  produced better results. Others the lst is more forgiving because it’s knock’s off spin and improved launch characteristics. 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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The thing I have noticed most after watching every video review of the Stealth, not including robot testing as other than Moe Norman, we aren't robots, and every review and data set provided basically show that overall carry and total distance is down with this driver. There may be a reason the C4 was a flop 20 years ago and hasn't been revisited until now. This could be TM's C4 flop or it could be fan boyed in sales but fall off like the SLDR that fits merely a handful of people. Time will tell, but from everyone giving it an honest, real life, non robotic review, it just isn't that impressive. Maybe TM is just prepping for the rolling back of distance from clubs....

Edited by cardia10
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25 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I am always a little chagrinned by golfers on golf forums complaining about hype and the marketing of golf clubs. Have you looked at new cars? Washers and dryers? Refrigerators? Audio/video equipment? Even buying stainless steel pots and pans you have to wade through the marketing of 1 ply, 3 ply or 5 ply and what about their bonding layers and or brand reputation makes them so much better. And this is just a stainless steel fry pan you put food in and cook, so really how different could they be? Fwiw, I ended up going with Misen and you can enjoy the "massively overhyped product" in the link below. I will say I am very happy with the purchase but had to compare all the top brands before making a decision. I would add I have always enjoyed Marketing and love reading between the lines before making my own decisions. 

... Capitalism promotes building a better mouse trap and hyping the he!! out of it. Did anyone need a Chia Pet? 🤣 As always it is the job of the consumer to research, try/demo and sift through the marketing. I imagine consumers might be a bit disillusioned to visit the TM website and see "We introduced a new driver. Made of Carbon and not Titanium. It tested well but it may or may not perform better than the driver you are playing. Email us for pictures". 


https://misen.com/pages/skillet-campaign?utm_content=TRYMISEN25&utm_price=57&utm_savings=18&utm_percent=25&msclkid=96764662b3e716ae27e52783020dc3a6&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search+|+Brand+|+Misen+MC+CPA25&utm_term=misen+cookware

Yeah, but do your new pots and pans give you an additional 17 yards guaranteed?

For what it’s worth, I’m always a bit “chagrined” at the level of whataboutism the world has morphed itself into. Nicely done!

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Suspecting there might be subtext here:

 

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:titelist-small: TS3
:callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 15°, Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 70 S
:cobra-small: F6 5-6W, 18.5°, Fujikura Motore 6.3
:callaway-small: XR Pro 20°, Project X 75 Black HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX Iron-Wood 22°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0 85g
:Sub70: 699 Pro, Modus3 105, 6–PW
:Sub70: Forged Black 50°, 54°, and 58°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0
:taylormade-small: TP5x

Full WITB with pictures

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1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Yeah, but do your new pots and pans give you an additional 17 yards guaranteed?

For what it’s worth, I’m always a bit “chagrined” at the level of whataboutism the world has morphed itself into. Nicely done!

Nice to see you back here, hope you're doing well.

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  • TaylorMade SIM2 8* Mitsubishi Tensei 1K White 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Mizuno HMB MP20 3i Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • Mizuno Pro 223 4-P Nippon Modus 3 115X
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • Scotty Cameron Phantom X 11.5
  • TaylorMade TP5 / Testing Srixon Z-Star XV Divide

Official 1/12 testers for 2022 L.A.B. Golf Putters

Western, NY

5.8 Index

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1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Yeah, but do your new pots and pans give you an additional 17 yards guaranteed?

For what it’s worth, I’m always a bit “chagrined” at the level of whataboutism the world has morphed itself into. Nicely done!

maybe not 17 yards.... but...

can your DRIVER do that!? I didn't think so. 😉

  • Haha 5

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6x | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8s | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85s

:cobra-small: KING Forged Tec 5-GW - Nippon Modus 120x | :cobra-small: KING MIM Black 52.12C, 56.10V, 60.04W - Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope

 

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5 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

maybe not 17 yards.... but...

can your DRIVER do that!? I didn't think so. 😉

Thanks now I’m hungry. 

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:titleist-small: Driver, TSi1 10* Stiff Flex

:taylormade-small: 3 Wood, SLDR  HL 17*  R Flex

:taylormade-small: 5 Wood, SLDR 19* R Flex

:cobra-small: 7 Wood, F6 22.5* R Flex

:Sub70: 939x 5 hybrid

:Sub70: Irons, 699 Pro's S Flex (6 - AW)

:Sub70:  JB Wedge 56*

:cleveland-small: Wedge, CBX 60*

:odyssey-small: Putter, Marksman Fang 35"

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MGS says that if you purchase a product linked to their site they get paid. OK, fair enough, but that also affects fair and balanced (sorry FOX) opinions. Money Money Money...the only person you can trust regarding anything is yourself and your decision.

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Certified Club Fitter.

Ping G425 Max Driver 10.5° w/Diamona S+ LTD Blue-Board 70 R Flex

Ping G410 5 Fairway Wood Mitsubishi Tensi Orange R Flex

Ping G410 4-5-6 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi Blue R Flex

Ping i500 Irons 5-U w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex (power-spec lofts)

Ping 3.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex

2021 Ping Fetch Putter

PING Pioneer Cart Bag

Lamkin Sonar+ Mid-Size Grips

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