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MGS Beef with Rick Shiels? He addresses on his new podcast


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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

Man, THREE threads in-a-row talking about Shiels and MGS and two weren’t even IN the “Shiels vs MGS” thread.

Good gracious. Aggravating.

It's this or talk about CC buying TXG 😂 

I blame Hawaiian golf and snow on the ground

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12 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Alex hits a bunch of shots in his videos but I can’t see him hitting 200 shots per club especially they way he swings.

Its been a while since I’ve watched a txg video by I doubt Matt hits 200+ shots with a driver even though his swing is less violent than Alex’s swing. 
 

None of them show the number of shots they hit. But just because they are professional and want making money off their channels doesn’t mean they do things people thing they do. It’s about finding a way to get views and that’s usually by using titles that are or are close to click bait and using a good picture. 
 

Rick started out hitting 10 shots in his reviews and like others mentioned he talked about changing his method which the last time I watched any of his videos he was hitting some shots indoors (didn’t look like 100) and some on the course (combined didn’t look like 200+).

But again Rick is one person where as mgs has dozens of reviewers and several staff. The amount of data between mgs and any of the yt reviewers isn’t even close.

Yes the mgs reviewers hit hundreds of shots over the course of weeks. Not the same as Rick swinging away one day in his place and one day or same day on a course. 

But why does this matter. Shiels isn’t saying he is hitting as many balls as MGS. 

He doesn’t need to hit as many in order to have enough of an experience to give an informed, accurate opinion based on what he experienced. 

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5 hours ago, sixcat said:

Obviously you didn’t watch/listen to Shiels’ entire video. He literally talks about hitting balls with the Stealth over the period of more than a week, at a number of different facilities, weather conditions, indoors off a mat, outdoors, and from a hitting bay. 
 

Besides, in the original review video Shiels did that brought this whole thing to a head, Rick hits way more than 10 shots!!!

My overarching point to all this, there is obviously enough Kool-Aid to go around. MGS doesn’t need to perform drive-by’s on others in the same arena. 

You picked a piece of a comment that stated I haven’t watched his videos in years so the likelihood I listened his podcast is pretty low. But no I didn’t and won’t. Ricks content isn’t appealing to me anymore and there’s nothing I’ve learned or gained from him when I didn’t watch his videos. 
 

Ricks equipment knowledge is on or with what one can find from reading golf websites and his understanding of numbers pales in comparison to TXG and that of members on another forum who are and have done fittings for their career. He’s far from the best instructor on yt. 
 

MGs didn’t do a drive by. The comment they replied to brought up Rick, they then applied to reply to rick. Mgs didn’t bring Rick into the conversation he was already there. 

6 minutes ago, LICC said:

But why does this matter. Shiels isn’t saying he is hitting as many balls as MGS. 

He doesn’t need to hit as many in order to have enough of an experience to give an informed, accurate opinion based on what he experienced. 

It matters because the point of mgs rad about how many shots Rick hits compared to the data mgs has. They have 9000 shots 1/2 way thru 2022 most wanted driver testing, now add that to the the amount of data they have from previous years.

Not to mention the amount of analysis mgs does with that data compared to Rick.

 

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3 hours ago, bens197 said:

This is where I really have a hard time with the guys alleging MGS is somehow taking backdoor cash.  Yes, they sell ad revenue and yes, they are transparent about the fact.  Nothing in this world is free, but to allege they are somehow influenced is bonkers.

I mean, Tommy Armour won the most wanted mallet in consecutive years...Tommy Armour...

Some folks just love themselves a good old fashioned conspiracy theory.

That's not what my post said, so not sure why you quoted me...are are you reinforcing?

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30 minutes ago, Middler said:

That's not what my post said, so not sure why you quoted me...are are you reinforcing?

It’s literally complementing your post…not sure what’s confusing…

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2 hours ago, Riverboat said:

It's about MGS taking an unprofessional and unwarranted shot at him, and unnecessarily coming to the defense of a company that has plenty of resources to defend itself, and the bad look that is for a group that claims to be totally independent and unbiased.

 

... One of my favorite lines from Nilsson's The Point came from The Rockman "You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear". I saw and heard MGS defend their actual findings concerning a brand new technology. I did not see or hear them defend any OEM. HUGE difference. 

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34 minutes ago, bens197 said:

It’s literally complementing your post…not sure what’s confusing…

Apologies, I wasn't sure how to take your comment. 

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2 minutes ago, Middler said:

Apologies, I wasn't sure how to take your comment. 

All good 😊 

 

You made a good point and it was worth propping up. 

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3 hours ago, Thin2win said:

It's this or talk about CC buying TXG 😂 

I blame Hawaiian golf and snow on the ground

Nothing else to do till 6pm!!!!!! 🌺🌴🏌️

Edited by Tyler86

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Golf equipment reviews remind me of hi fi equipment reviews back in the days when people bought LPs and CDs rather than streamed music on their telephones....and spent serious money on the equipment to play them.

One kind of reviewer talked about esoteric sound qualities (like "liquidity") in terms that nobody could understand,

and the other kind of reviewer said,

"There are a lot of great premium loudspeakers on the market today and

the "Wilson WATT/Puppy" is one of them."

Rick seems to be one of the latter, which makes him easier for me to understand.

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8 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

"It's really unfortunate that someone hitting 5-10 shots with a driver can impact a company that has worked 20 years to develop."

This is not a defense of MGS findings. It is an untrue, unwarranted, unprofessional attack on a person who has expressed admiration for MGS procedures. 

"This wasn't just words and an ad, they actually pushed an envelope and made something better and moved a technology forward for golfers. "

Again, no defense of MGS findings-- which nobody questioned to begin with, but virtually an ad for TM.

As you said, you see what you want to see, but I think I'd need some distorted glasses to not see these statements for what they clearly are. 

 

... I think the responses have been pretty universal that MGS took an uncalled for cheap shot. Not sure why you keep bringing this up. 

... So if it had been Tour Edge or XXIO would you still feel offended? These are blogs meant for hard core equipment golfers so the nuts and bolts are much more important than the OEM making the product. Again, maybe my perspective is different as a reviewer but when I ran across a true technological breakthrough I was pretty excited to share it.

... When everyone was touting forward weighting after the "success" of the SLDR, Cobra moved weight low and to the very rear of the Fly Z and it changed the way drivers were produced. But Cobra engineers took it a step farther and offered an even heavier rear weight at 18gms that was a game changer for most average golfers. They called it a "Fairway Finder" and every engineer played the Fly Z with the exception of one ex D1 college player that used the LTD. I probably sold 25-50 of those drivers with my review and constant promotions anywhere I could influence a player to demo one. I was not promoting Cobra, I was promoting the Fly Z and the breakthrough in performance it produced. I have never promoted a single product anywhere near as much h as the Fly Z because it worked for such a wide range of players. In fact I was disappointed in the LTD because while it could be longer than the Fly Z on perfect center hits, LTD mishits were nowhere near as good and it was the opposite of a Fairway Finder. for me. Again, not a knock against Cobra, a knock of a product that did not work for average golfers. But of course you see what you want to see so you are free to believe whatever you want ... 

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2 hours ago, Riverboat said:

When you quoted me earlier, you included the part about the cheap shot, so I thought you were also defending that. Glad to hear you are not. 

Not sure why you think it's the TM part that upset me. I've played more TM equipment over the years than any other brand, so I have no issue with them. I also have no issue with MGS getting excited about a product in their own tests and reviews. The look doesn't become bad until you go out of your way to provide an unsolicited critique of someone else's review complete with a personal attack and a fan boy plug for that company in your comments. That is going beyond the norm. I'm okay that you're okay with that. Clearly, I and many others aren't. Just think MGS should be aware of that so they can consider it next time they think about taking this type of action. 

You really are reading stuff that isn’t there in the comment. They didn’t fanboy the brand or the club. They pointed out what they saw from the staff that hit it, talked about the technology and that they’ve never seen that type of ball speed increase before.

They also don’t take a cheap shot at Rick. They posted out his method and the difference in how much data they have compared to Rick.

People will see what they want to see and read especially when they already have a bone to pick with whoever is writing in this case those pointing out the comment about Rick all have made their qualms with mgs on various subjects knows in other thread over time. This gives you and them another opportunity to find fault and go after mgs staff.

 

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You really are reading stuff that isn’t there in the comment. They didn’t fanboy the brand or the club. They pointed out what they saw from the staff that hit it, talked about the technology and that they’ve never seen that type of ball speed increase before.

They also don’t take a cheap shot at Rick. They posted out his method and the difference in how much data they have compared to Rick.

People will see what they want to see and read especially when they already have a bone to pick with whoever is writing in this case those pointing out the comment about Rick all have made their qualms with mgs on various subjects knows in other thread over time. This gives you and them another opportunity to find fault and go after mgs staff.

 

It read like an unnecessary, unsolicited cheap shot at Rick to me as well. But i didnt take it as a Taylormade “fan boy” post either. Just someone excited about a new product’s results. 

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This is quite a debate.  My take on every organization that does reviews is based on human nature.  If you're getting paid you are going to be biased.  That includes golf sites, truck sites, cars etc.  Sure there is valuable feedback and information gained from all sites with tests and reviews.  But if there's money involved and jobs then there will be bias.

That being said, I play what I like and not what anyone else likes or says I should play.  Only I can determine which is the best set of cubs for me.  My bag includes TaylorMade, Mizuno, Titleist and Scotty putter.  All of which are excellent and allow me to enjoy the game.

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13 hours ago, Shankster said:

What in the heck is this?  Haha.  

Some kids who clearly have an amazing sense of humor. 🙂

 

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Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

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Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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I'd love to think "MYGOLFSPY" was simply a troller in disguise.  But, I think those comments are all vetted by someone or...something. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️

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I have sat behind the scenes and read all these comments and listened to what Rick Shiels said about the comment.  It is clear to me that someone from MGS got their panties in a wad over a comment indicating Rick disagreed with the the opinions of at least someone at MGS and basically replied without thinking.  It looks like their feeling was along the line of who is this guy that knows nothing and is disagreeing with our obviously superior knowledge.  It was a cheap shot and was unprofessional.  I found Ricks response to be professional and wise.  My opinion of MGS went down some due to this and mine on Rick was solidified some.  MGS should reach out to Rick, behind the scenes, and say that that comment did not represent the entire staff at MGS, assuming it does not, and let it go.  Hopefully that has or will happen

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One thing Rick said which I'm a little confused about was when he was explaining how he understood the car crash analogy. Being a car crashing causing a impact force of however much, then if you have a bunch of weight in the back (trunk or boot) the impact would be greater. 

Where I am confused is, of course if you add weight the force will be greater. That makes sense, but where the analogy fails on me is TM hasn't claimed to be adding a bunch of head weight. Yes, they have moved the head weight (as most companies have), but the weight should be about the same. 

Finally I do recall on some review that TM felt weight the weight being at the back and greater that force is still moving forward at impact despite the face being "stopped" so to speak. Which could increase or have a greater rebound effect? I feel like this would be done better with photos. Either way I had to watch other videos after hearing how Rick explained it, because when I first heard it I thought it sounded like they were increasing the headweight a bunch. 

I believe that companies will always try new tech and invent new buzz words, but a thought that was brought up in our Mod Slack which could be discussed along this topic. Is it time for OEM's to stop claiming distance gains (on good strikes as we are at the limit) and start talking more about forgiveness and the added distance that forgiveness provides. This because we all know distance sells. Period. Forgiveness not so much, but if they could be intertwined maybe that is a better way to substantiate distance claims which some may see while others may not?

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Maybe this was already mentioned but I watched the TXG review and the Stealth ball speed was about 1/2 mph slower than the SIM2 for Ian.  Carry was about 4 yards further for Stealth probably due to spin and dynamic loft differences.  Their conclusion leaned toward not replacing a SIM2 or even a SIM (also part of the review) but probably an older generation.  I don't know how many shots of each that review included as they edit footage.  That seems to be about the same message as RIck.

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3 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Maybe this was already mentioned but I watched the TXG review and the Stealth ball speed was about 1/2 mph slower than the SIM2 for Ian.  Carry was about 4 yards further for Stealth probably due to spin and launch angle differences.  Their conclusion leaned toward not replacing a SIM2 or even a SIM (also part of the review) but probably an older generation.  I don't know how many shots of each that review included as they edit footage.  That seems to be about the same message as RIck.

The only thing I noted on the TXG review was the strike locations for the drivers. The Sim had a MUCH lower strike pattern, whether that was depth of face or just how it was being swung I don't know. 

In the end I believe there is probably a bigger difference on off center hits vs center strikes... however I'll just have to wait to get one in my own hands to see how it performs for me. 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
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Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

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6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

One thing Rick said which I'm a little confused about was when he was explaining how he understood the car crash analogy. Being a car crashing causing a impact force of however much, then if you have a bunch of weight in the back (trunk or boot) the impact would be greater. 

Where I am confused is, of course if you add weight the force will be greater. That makes sense, but where the analogy fails on me is TM hasn't claimed to be adding a bunch of head weight. Yes, they have moved the head weight (as most companies have), but the weight should be about the same. 

Example of why I stopped watching Rick. Things he’s says don’t make sense and if he’s not reiterating the oem material he’s not all that knowledgeable on equipment design 

1 hour ago, Shapotomous said:

Maybe this was already mentioned but I watched the TXG review and the Stealth ball speed was about 1/2 mph slower than the SIM2 for Ian.  Carry was about 4 yards further for Stealth probably due to spin and launch angle differences.  Their conclusion leaned toward not replacing a SIM2 or even a SIM (also part of the review) but probably an older generation.  I don't know how many shots of each that review included as they edit footage.  That seems to be about the same message as RIck.

I haven’t watched the video yet but this is different than what their guy Mike at their other location answered on Instagram when asked about sim or sim2 and said stealth. I’ve seen some other stories where he likes the stealth as for 2022 drivers

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

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On 1/15/2022 at 3:46 PM, BostonSal said:

Golf equipment reviews remind me of hi fi equipment reviews back in the days when people bought LPs and CDs rather than streamed music on their telephones....and spent serious money on the equipment to play them.

One kind of reviewer talked about esoteric sound qualities (like "liquidity") in terms that nobody could understand,

and the other kind of reviewer said,

"There are a lot of great premium loudspeakers on the market today and

the "Wilson WATT/Puppy" is one of them."

Rick seems to be one of the latter, which makes him easier for me to understand.

As a someone who has fully recovered from a 20-year personal struggle with audiophile nervosa I love this analogy!

Ps: I almost purchased the WATT/Puppy combo, but felt the speakers were too revealing for my eclectic musical tastes. 

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2 & 3 Hybrids: :cobra-small: Speedzone Recoil 480 ESX Shaft

Irons: :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-GW Recoil 460 ESX Shafts

Wedges::callaway-logo-1: PM Grind 54* & 58*

Putter: :odyssey-small: Dual Force Rossi II

Ball: Whatever I find in the woods

:Arccos:

HCP:18

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

The only thing I noted on the TXG review was the strike locations for the drivers. The Sim had a MUCH lower strike pattern, whether that was depth of face or just how it was being swung I don't know. 

In the end I believe there is probably a bigger difference on off center hits vs center strikes... however I'll just have to wait to get one in my own hands to see how it performs for me. 

Yep, strike locations were different and dynamic loft was very different, 12.7 for Stealth, 15.5 for SIM2 and 18 for SIM.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Example of why I stopped watching Rick. Things he’s says don’t make sense and if he’s not reiterating the oem material he’s not all that knowledgeable on equipment design 

I haven’t watched the video yet but this is different than what their guy Mike at their other location answered on Instagram when asked about sim or sim2 and said stealth. I’ve seen some other stories where he likes the stealth as for 2022 drivers


Mike was sitting right next to Ian Fraser and they agreed that, unless you’re hitting a driver that is three to four generations old, the Stealth is not going to provide any significant increase in performance (distance, forgiveness, etc.) Both of them agreed that it isn’t worth getting a Stealth driver if you are currently playing a SIM or SIM2 model.

DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S

Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023)

Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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Saw the Rick Shiels interview before reading the MGS comment. I am new to MSG, comments like this take away the independence appeal that attracted me in the first place. I understand a crack at 2m subscribers, have also seen the TXG Stealth review and the conclusion it would not be much better than last year's models.

Surely as an industry we can do better than regenerating marketing hype? Stealth, in Australia is $300-400 more expensive than last year's models at circa $1,100. Does it have the extra value? What are the real brand value propositions when last year's purchases are discarded as inferior every time these companies promote a new "shiny toy" - golf is one of the worst at this IMO.

  • Driver: Callaway Epic Max LS w Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 
  • 2H: Srixon ZX w Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 
  • 4H: Srixon ZX w Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 
  • Irons: XXIO X 12 5-PW w N.S. Pro 950GH Neo DST
  • Wedges: Cobra King 52, 56, 60
  • Putter: Ping Anser PLD
  • Ball: Chrome Soft
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