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MGS Beef with Rick Shiels? He addresses on his new podcast


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Golf equipment reviews remind me of hi fi equipment reviews back in the days when people bought LPs and CDs rather than streamed music on their telephones....and spent serious money on the equipment to play them.

One kind of reviewer talked about esoteric sound qualities (like "liquidity") in terms that nobody could understand,

and the other kind of reviewer said,

"There are a lot of great premium loudspeakers on the market today and

the "Wilson WATT/Puppy" is one of them."

Rick seems to be one of the latter, which makes him easier for me to understand.

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8 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

"It's really unfortunate that someone hitting 5-10 shots with a driver can impact a company that has worked 20 years to develop."

This is not a defense of MGS findings. It is an untrue, unwarranted, unprofessional attack on a person who has expressed admiration for MGS procedures. 

"This wasn't just words and an ad, they actually pushed an envelope and made something better and moved a technology forward for golfers. "

Again, no defense of MGS findings-- which nobody questioned to begin with, but virtually an ad for TM.

As you said, you see what you want to see, but I think I'd need some distorted glasses to not see these statements for what they clearly are. 

 

... I think the responses have been pretty universal that MGS took an uncalled for cheap shot. Not sure why you keep bringing this up. 

... So if it had been Tour Edge or XXIO would you still feel offended? These are blogs meant for hard core equipment golfers so the nuts and bolts are much more important than the OEM making the product. Again, maybe my perspective is different as a reviewer but when I ran across a true technological breakthrough I was pretty excited to share it.

... When everyone was touting forward weighting after the "success" of the SLDR, Cobra moved weight low and to the very rear of the Fly Z and it changed the way drivers were produced. But Cobra engineers took it a step farther and offered an even heavier rear weight at 18gms that was a game changer for most average golfers. They called it a "Fairway Finder" and every engineer played the Fly Z with the exception of one ex D1 college player that used the LTD. I probably sold 25-50 of those drivers with my review and constant promotions anywhere I could influence a player to demo one. I was not promoting Cobra, I was promoting the Fly Z and the breakthrough in performance it produced. I have never promoted a single product anywhere near as much h as the Fly Z because it worked for such a wide range of players. In fact I was disappointed in the LTD because while it could be longer than the Fly Z on perfect center hits, LTD mishits were nowhere near as good and it was the opposite of a Fairway Finder. for me. Again, not a knock against Cobra, a knock of a product that did not work for average golfers. But of course you see what you want to see so you are free to believe whatever you want ... 

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Driver:     :cobra-small: LTDx 10.5* ... LinQ M40X 6F3
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/16.5/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
                  :taylormade-small: Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 5-Pw Forged Tec ... Steelfiber i80R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           :taylormade-small: Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

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2 hours ago, Riverboat said:

When you quoted me earlier, you included the part about the cheap shot, so I thought you were also defending that. Glad to hear you are not. 

Not sure why you think it's the TM part that upset me. I've played more TM equipment over the years than any other brand, so I have no issue with them. I also have no issue with MGS getting excited about a product in their own tests and reviews. The look doesn't become bad until you go out of your way to provide an unsolicited critique of someone else's review complete with a personal attack and a fan boy plug for that company in your comments. That is going beyond the norm. I'm okay that you're okay with that. Clearly, I and many others aren't. Just think MGS should be aware of that so they can consider it next time they think about taking this type of action. 

You really are reading stuff that isn’t there in the comment. They didn’t fanboy the brand or the club. They pointed out what they saw from the staff that hit it, talked about the technology and that they’ve never seen that type of ball speed increase before.

They also don’t take a cheap shot at Rick. They posted out his method and the difference in how much data they have compared to Rick.

People will see what they want to see and read especially when they already have a bone to pick with whoever is writing in this case those pointing out the comment about Rick all have made their qualms with mgs on various subjects knows in other thread over time. This gives you and them another opportunity to find fault and go after mgs staff.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You really are reading stuff that isn’t there in the comment. They didn’t fanboy the brand or the club. They pointed out what they saw from the staff that hit it, talked about the technology and that they’ve never seen that type of ball speed increase before.

They also don’t take a cheap shot at Rick. They posted out his method and the difference in how much data they have compared to Rick.

People will see what they want to see and read especially when they already have a bone to pick with whoever is writing in this case those pointing out the comment about Rick all have made their qualms with mgs on various subjects knows in other thread over time. This gives you and them another opportunity to find fault and go after mgs staff.

 

It read like an unnecessary, unsolicited cheap shot at Rick to me as well. But i didnt take it as a Taylormade “fan boy” post either. Just someone excited about a new product’s results. 

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Mavrik Max Driver

M2 5W

818 hybrids

Steelhead XR Irons

ZipCore wedges

SeeMore PR M7X

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Isn't social media wonderful?  I really don't know what we would do without it.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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On 1/14/2022 at 8:05 PM, bens197 said:

I miss the good old days where you just hire a professional long driver, film him smashing a half dozen bombs and then sell it after 11pm on PBS for $249.99

 

 

What in the heck is this?  Haha.  

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This is quite a debate.  My take on every organization that does reviews is based on human nature.  If you're getting paid you are going to be biased.  That includes golf sites, truck sites, cars etc.  Sure there is valuable feedback and information gained from all sites with tests and reviews.  But if there's money involved and jobs then there will be bias.

That being said, I play what I like and not what anyone else likes or says I should play.  Only I can determine which is the best set of cubs for me.  My bag includes TaylorMade, Mizuno, Titleist and Scotty putter.  All of which are excellent and allow me to enjoy the game.

TaylorMade SIM2 woods, PXG 5 wood, TaylorMade Wedges, Mizuno irons, Scotty Cameron putter and TP5/ProV1x golf balls. 

Club Champ and Long Drive Champ.  

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13 hours ago, Shankster said:

What in the heck is this?  Haha.  

Some kids who clearly have an amazing sense of humor. 🙂

 

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  • Mizuno Pro 223 4-P Nippon Modus 3 115X
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
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Western, NY

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I'd love to think "MYGOLFSPY" was simply a troller in disguise.  But, I think those comments are all vetted by someone or...something. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️

:ping-small:        G400 Max, PX Evenflow Blue 6.0s, until the adapter comes loose again in 5 swings. 😥

:cobra-small:  Bio Cell 3/4w, Project X PXV 6.0s; AMP 3h 19deg Aldila RIP R.  Bio Cell 4h 22.5deg PXV R. Aldila RIP 70 R; King Utility 4i, UST Recoil 780 ES SmacWrap S 

:wilson_staff_small: C300 cast irons 5-PW. Fujikura graphite R 

:cleveland-small:      CBX-2 50/11 

:taylormade-small:   ATV 56/16deg 

:1332069271_TommyArmour:  Impact No.3 Align putter

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2019: Golf Pride Tour Velvet Plus 4 grips, Lynx Black Cat 5-PW.    2020:  :skycaddie: LX5 Watch.    2021:  :1332069271_TommyArmour: Impact #3 Align putter

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I have sat behind the scenes and read all these comments and listened to what Rick Shiels said about the comment.  It is clear to me that someone from MGS got their panties in a wad over a comment indicating Rick disagreed with the the opinions of at least someone at MGS and basically replied without thinking.  It looks like their feeling was along the line of who is this guy that knows nothing and is disagreeing with our obviously superior knowledge.  It was a cheap shot and was unprofessional.  I found Ricks response to be professional and wise.  My opinion of MGS went down some due to this and mine on Rick was solidified some.  MGS should reach out to Rick, behind the scenes, and say that that comment did not represent the entire staff at MGS, assuming it does not, and let it go.  Hopefully that has or will happen

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One thing Rick said which I'm a little confused about was when he was explaining how he understood the car crash analogy. Being a car crashing causing a impact force of however much, then if you have a bunch of weight in the back (trunk or boot) the impact would be greater. 

Where I am confused is, of course if you add weight the force will be greater. That makes sense, but where the analogy fails on me is TM hasn't claimed to be adding a bunch of head weight. Yes, they have moved the head weight (as most companies have), but the weight should be about the same. 

Finally I do recall on some review that TM felt weight the weight being at the back and greater that force is still moving forward at impact despite the face being "stopped" so to speak. Which could increase or have a greater rebound effect? I feel like this would be done better with photos. Either way I had to watch other videos after hearing how Rick explained it, because when I first heard it I thought it sounded like they were increasing the headweight a bunch. 

I believe that companies will always try new tech and invent new buzz words, but a thought that was brought up in our Mod Slack which could be discussed along this topic. Is it time for OEM's to stop claiming distance gains (on good strikes as we are at the limit) and start talking more about forgiveness and the added distance that forgiveness provides. This because we all know distance sells. Period. Forgiveness not so much, but if they could be intertwined maybe that is a better way to substantiate distance claims which some may see while others may not?

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 ⛳🛄 as of April 15, 2022

SuperSpeed 2020 from 100-112 and climbing!

Driver:   :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero - Set at 9.5* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 2 and 4 iron

Irons:     :ping-small: i210 5-U w/ Nippon Modus 105 stiff (2018 Tester)

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:      :srixon-small: Z Star

Other:     :Arccos: 

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Maybe this was already mentioned but I watched the TXG review and the Stealth ball speed was about 1/2 mph slower than the SIM2 for Ian.  Carry was about 4 yards further for Stealth probably due to spin and dynamic loft differences.  Their conclusion leaned toward not replacing a SIM2 or even a SIM (also part of the review) but probably an older generation.  I don't know how many shots of each that review included as they edit footage.  That seems to be about the same message as RIck.

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Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  :ping-small: Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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3 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Maybe this was already mentioned but I watched the TXG review and the Stealth ball speed was about 1/2 mph slower than the SIM2 for Ian.  Carry was about 4 yards further for Stealth probably due to spin and launch angle differences.  Their conclusion leaned toward not replacing a SIM2 or even a SIM (also part of the review) but probably an older generation.  I don't know how many shots of each that review included as they edit footage.  That seems to be about the same message as RIck.

The only thing I noted on the TXG review was the strike locations for the drivers. The Sim had a MUCH lower strike pattern, whether that was depth of face or just how it was being swung I don't know. 

In the end I believe there is probably a bigger difference on off center hits vs center strikes... however I'll just have to wait to get one in my own hands to see how it performs for me. 

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 ⛳🛄 as of April 15, 2022

SuperSpeed 2020 from 100-112 and climbing!

Driver:   :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero - Set at 9.5* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 2 and 4 iron

Irons:     :ping-small: i210 5-U w/ Nippon Modus 105 stiff (2018 Tester)

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:      :srixon-small: Z Star

Other:     :Arccos: 

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6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

One thing Rick said which I'm a little confused about was when he was explaining how he understood the car crash analogy. Being a car crashing causing a impact force of however much, then if you have a bunch of weight in the back (trunk or boot) the impact would be greater. 

Where I am confused is, of course if you add weight the force will be greater. That makes sense, but where the analogy fails on me is TM hasn't claimed to be adding a bunch of head weight. Yes, they have moved the head weight (as most companies have), but the weight should be about the same. 

Example of why I stopped watching Rick. Things he’s says don’t make sense and if he’s not reiterating the oem material he’s not all that knowledgeable on equipment design 

1 hour ago, Shapotomous said:

Maybe this was already mentioned but I watched the TXG review and the Stealth ball speed was about 1/2 mph slower than the SIM2 for Ian.  Carry was about 4 yards further for Stealth probably due to spin and launch angle differences.  Their conclusion leaned toward not replacing a SIM2 or even a SIM (also part of the review) but probably an older generation.  I don't know how many shots of each that review included as they edit footage.  That seems to be about the same message as RIck.

I haven’t watched the video yet but this is different than what their guy Mike at their other location answered on Instagram when asked about sim or sim2 and said stealth. I’ve seen some other stories where he likes the stealth as for 2022 drivers

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 1/15/2022 at 3:46 PM, BostonSal said:

Golf equipment reviews remind me of hi fi equipment reviews back in the days when people bought LPs and CDs rather than streamed music on their telephones....and spent serious money on the equipment to play them.

One kind of reviewer talked about esoteric sound qualities (like "liquidity") in terms that nobody could understand,

and the other kind of reviewer said,

"There are a lot of great premium loudspeakers on the market today and

the "Wilson WATT/Puppy" is one of them."

Rick seems to be one of the latter, which makes him easier for me to understand.

As a someone who has fully recovered from a 20-year personal struggle with audiophile nervosa I love this analogy!

Ps: I almost purchased the WATT/Puppy combo, but felt the speakers were too revealing for my eclectic musical tastes. 

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Driver: :cobra-small: Speed Zone 9* HZRDUS Smoke Yellow Shaft

3 Wood: :cobra-small: King Speedzone 13.5* HZRDUS Smoke Black Shaft

2 & 3 Hybrids: :cobra-small: Speedzone Recoil 480 ESX Shaft

Irons: :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-GW Recoil 460 ESX Shafts

Wedges::callaway-logo-1: PM Grind 54* & 58*

Putter: :odyssey-small: Dual Force Rossi II

Ball: Whatever I find in the woods

:Arccos:

HCP:18

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

The only thing I noted on the TXG review was the strike locations for the drivers. The Sim had a MUCH lower strike pattern, whether that was depth of face or just how it was being swung I don't know. 

In the end I believe there is probably a bigger difference on off center hits vs center strikes... however I'll just have to wait to get one in my own hands to see how it performs for me. 

Yep, strike locations were different and dynamic loft was very different, 12.7 for Stealth, 15.5 for SIM2 and 18 for SIM.

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Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  :ping-small: Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Example of why I stopped watching Rick. Things he’s says don’t make sense and if he’s not reiterating the oem material he’s not all that knowledgeable on equipment design 

I haven’t watched the video yet but this is different than what their guy Mike at their other location answered on Instagram when asked about sim or sim2 and said stealth. I’ve seen some other stories where he likes the stealth as for 2022 drivers


Mike was sitting right next to Ian Fraser and they agreed that, unless you’re hitting a driver that is three to four generations old, the Stealth is not going to provide any significant increase in performance (distance, forgiveness, etc.) Both of them agreed that it isn’t worth getting a Stealth driver if you are currently playing a SIM or SIM2 model.

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Driver: Ping G425 Max, 9*, Miyazaki  Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 6S, 44.75" playing length

4-Wood: Titleist TS2, 16.5*, Miyazaki Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 7S, 42.75" playing length

5/7-Wood: Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero set to 20* loft; Tensei Blue 75-S, 41.5" playing length

Hybrids: Exotics EXS Pro (22*), Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 75S

Irons: Exotics EXS220 5-iron and New Level MODB-1 (6-iron through PW), KBS TGI Tour 80 (stiff) shafts

Wedges: New Hogan Equalizer wedges (48* and 56* + Maltby TSW Forged 52-8, all bent 1* weak

Putter: Evnroll ER2, 34”with Gravity Grip

Ball: Snell MTBx

Spoiler

 

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Saw the Rick Shiels interview before reading the MGS comment. I am new to MSG, comments like this take away the independence appeal that attracted me in the first place. I understand a crack at 2m subscribers, have also seen the TXG Stealth review and the conclusion it would not be much better than last year's models.

Surely as an industry we can do better than regenerating marketing hype? Stealth, in Australia is $300-400 more expensive than last year's models at circa $1,100. Does it have the extra value? What are the real brand value propositions when last year's purchases are discarded as inferior every time these companies promote a new "shiny toy" - golf is one of the worst at this IMO.

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  • 3U: Srixon U65
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  • Wedges: Nike Engage Toe Sweep 54, 58
  • Putter: Bettinardi BB1F
  • Ball: Srixon Z Star
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