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Where Should I Go For A Putter Fitting?


Middler
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I'm not unhappy with my current putter (my alignment is good, my pace is inconsistent long and short - I assume that's more the operator than the putter, but at least one post here suggested not necessarily), but I am curious enough to pay ONCE for a top notch fitting to see what I can learn about my stroke characteristics. If I come away with a new putter or not isn't primary.

So I had a driver fitting at Club Champion that was worthless. When I shared that here, some told me it was my own fault. So now's your chance to put your expertise to good use (there are most certainly many more knowledgeable than I am here).

Most of the big name fitters are within driving distance NC/SC and I'm not willing to get on a plane for a putter fitting. Is there one better than another, one standout? Should I narrow it down to Quintic, SAM, BioMech or another technology? Or some tech or fitters I should cross off my list - I am not keen on Club Champion after my BS driver fitting, but I won't rule them out.

Tell me where to go (OK, your second idea) for an instructive, conclusive putter fitting...

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If any brand then TruSpec in Pine needles would be my first choice

If brand specific and the brand doesn’t matter as long as it works Seemore at their facility in Franklin, TN.

I have no idea what system is better. I’ll let those who are more into putting that i am answer

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I agree with making sure you’re getting a Quintic assessment as a part of the fitting, I’ve not been impressed with SAM. I’m an Edel “homer” and I believe  in their fittings since I’ve seen actual results, but you still need a gods fitter with experience to do that fitting the right way. My guy in MS only charged $40 for the fitting, so it was worth it even if I didn’t buy the putter. If Edel is a choice, reach-out to Edel and ask who’d they recommend in your area. They’ll shoot you straight.

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Driver: :cobra-small: King F9 Speedback/:callaway-small:Epic Max LS, Xphlexxx Busa 2 Liquid, XX stiff, 45”

Fwy:  :callaway-small: Epic Speed 4w, MMT 80X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 105X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4-10, :Nippon: Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

All but putter have Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Calibrate midsize built to oversize +1

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IMO, the key to a putter fitting is finding a good fitter and I think that is the challenge.  From a system perspective,  you have SAM, Quintic,, Capto, and Biomech.   As mentioned you could also do and Edel fitting.   I've personally done Edel, Sam, and Biomech.   SAM, Capto, and Biomech are measurements of the putter and how the putter moves through the stroke.  Capto is probably the best followed by SAM.  I wasn't impressed but Biomech, but it could have been the "fitter"   Quintic is about the ball and how it reacts to the stroke.    If I had a choice i'd do Quintic.  

Unfortunately,  I have no clue on where you should go.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Overnight thought.   Hit me that you said NC was a good location (thought you were a west coast guy).  My one choice would be David Orr; he is a putting specialist and is at Pine Needles.  Not cheap but I think it would be one if the best experiences you could have since he simply knows his stuff!

https://flatstickacademy.com/flatstick-instruction-2/

 

to kind of get a flavor this thoughts you can watch this:

 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I don't know if one system is better than another. I only have experience with the SAM system. Which I found to be very good and provides very interesting data. If you are going to pay for a putter fitting, I would make sure they are using some kind of system and that the person doing the fitting understands what they are looking at, and can explain it. There can be a lot of info that can easily be misunderstood otherwise. 

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Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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Update: I have a putter fitting booked at Pine Needles in a couple weeks. I called to verify what equipment they use, assuming it was Quintic or PuttLab, and they told me they use the Foresight Essential Putting Analysis using a GC Quad? I’ve never heard of GC Quad aside from other full swing clubs. I want a proper fitting, not a putting lesson. Anyone have any idea what I’m getting myself into - I may cancel if it’s primarily a lesson.

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On 1/13/2022 at 4:51 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

If any brand then TruSpec in Pine needles would be my first choice

seconded. I had a putter and wedge fitting here and learned a lot about my game in addition to getting the right specs to then make my own purchase decision. (The fitter actually said, "I can't get you what you need, but look for these specs...")

I would also recommend 2nd Swing or basically anyone else that uses Quintec and knows what they're doing 🙂 (DO NOT go to Golf Galaxy or PGASS)

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Update: I have a putter fitting booked at Pine Needles in a couple weeks. I called to verify what equipment they use, assuming it was Quintic or PuttLab, and they told me they use the Foresight Essential Putting Analysis using a GC Quad? I’ve never heard of GC Quad aside from other full swing clubs. I want a proper fitting, not a putting lesson. Anyone have any idea what I’m getting myself into - I may cancel if it’s primarily a lesson.

That's new, then. It was SAM when I went last spring.

Driver: :cobra-small: RADspeed 9* with Motore X F1 60S
Fun driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 9.5* with 47" Tensei CK White 60S
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 54* :cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Modus3 Tour 115
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Premier 11s, :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago

Ball: Maxfli Tour, ProV1, or TP5x
Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer (2018) in black/white/copper

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots
:SuperSpeed: and Fit for Golf 

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review

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21 minutes ago, greggarner said:

That's new, then. It was SAM when I went last spring.

I was surprised, but the woman I talked to insisted they used Foresight putter fitting. I told her I didn’t even know GC Quads were used for anything other than full swing clubs, and she acted like I was an idiot. I will probably cancel my session at Pine Needles, I don’t want a putting lesson masquerading as a fitting. I was looking forward to it…

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  • Mizuno CLK 3H 19°, JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06
  • Evnroll ER5B Fit@TrueSpec ER2
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1 hour ago, Middler said:

I was surprised, but the woman I talked to insisted they used Foresight putter fitting. I told her I didn’t even know GC Quads were used for anything other than full swing clubs, and she acted like I was an idiot. I will probably cancel my session at Pine Needles, I don’t want a putting lesson masquerading as a fitting. I was looking forward to it…

GC Quad added putter analysis to their product probably 4 years ago.  MGS actually looked at doing some of their putter testing using the GC Quad.   You can look at the data it captures here:

https://www.foresightsports.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2021/EPA Putting Guide %26 Glossary.pdf

And a video of what it does here:

 

Kind of a combination of Puttlab and Quintic.  Why do you think it will be a lesson and not a fitting?   The purpose of the devices is to provide information to the fitter so they can help tweak the putter to optimize results.   

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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59 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Kind of a combination of Puttlab and Quintic.  Why do you think it will be a lesson and not a fitting?   The purpose of the devices is to provide information to the fitter so they can help tweak the putter to optimize results.   

Mostly because it’s an unknown quantity to me, and I had a bad (driver fitting) experience once, don’t want to repeat that again. Why do I see most places using Puttlab or Quintic, and none using Foresight for putting? I found a few on search today, but they’re few and far between from firms I’ve never heard of.

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  • Mizuno CLK 3H 19°, JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06
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7 minutes ago, Middler said:

Mostly because it’s an unknown quantity to me, and I had a bad (driver fitting) experience once, don’t want to repeat that again. Why do I see most places using Puttlab or Quintic, and none using Foresight for putting? I found a few on search today, but they’re few and far between from firms I’ve never heard of.

Couldn't tell you why.   I agree that it is odd, as I've seem Quintic, Puttlab, Capto, and a few others but no one really seems to use GC Quad for putter fitting.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I got great benefit from my Edel fitting.  Of course it was aimed at their putters (no pun intended) but the end result, in terms of counterweighting, head weight, loft and lie could be used with other putters if that was your agreement with the fitter beforehand?  Maybe?

PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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13 hours ago, Middler said:

I was surprised, but the woman I talked to insisted they used Foresight putter fitting. I told her I didn’t even know GC Quads were used for anything other than full swing clubs, and she acted like I was an idiot. I will probably cancel my session at Pine Needles, I don’t want a putting lesson masquerading as a fitting. I was looking forward to it…

Don't believe her. Lol

Each shop runs itself and she is just a scheduler based on Phoenix. The guys running the pine needles shop are legit

Edited by greggarner
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Driver: :cobra-small: RADspeed 9* with Motore X F1 60S
Fun driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 9.5* with 47" Tensei CK White 60S
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 54* :cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Modus3 Tour 115
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Premier 11s, :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago

Ball: Maxfli Tour, ProV1, or TP5x
Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer (2018) in black/white/copper

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots
:SuperSpeed: and Fit for Golf 

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review

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58 minutes ago, greggarner said:

Don't believe her. Lol

Each shop runs itself and she is just a scheduler based on Phoenix. The guys running the pine needles shop are legit

I emailed and they didn’t answer. So I called and got “her.” She acted like I was stupid for asking and didn’t see anything unusual about GC Quad putting analysis. So I don’t know if it’s worth a 4 hour drive and $150 if they can’t give me a straight answer…

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On 3/4/2022 at 5:06 PM, Middler said:

Update: I have a putter fitting booked at Pine Needles in a couple weeks. I called to verify what equipment they use, assuming it was Quintic or PuttLab, and they told me they use the Foresight Essential Putting Analysis using a GC Quad? I’ve never heard of GC Quad aside from other full swing clubs. I want a proper fitting, not a putting lesson. Anyone have any idea what I’m getting myself into - I may cancel if it’s primarily a lesson.

On 3/4/2022 at 6:39 PM, greggarner said:

That's new, then. It was SAM when I went last spring.

On 3/5/2022 at 8:50 AM, greggarner said:

Don't believe her. Lol

Each shop runs itself and she is just a scheduler based on Phoenix. The guys running the pine needles shop are legit

I called to cancel my putter fitting, thought I’d ask one last time. The woman (in Scottsdale) told me they use PuttLab at Pine Needles, and GC Quad for putter fittings at other True Spec locations (I don’t believe it). She’d talked to Ryan since I called last Fri, and confessed she gave me bad info then. Played with a guy yesterday who’s been to True Spec at Pine Needles and he raved about them, and the course too. So I’m going through with the fitting - as a learning experience, if I get more out of it all the better.

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On 1/14/2022 at 6:51 AM, Middler said:

I'm not unhappy with my current putter (my alignment is good, my pace is inconsistent long and short - I assume that's more the operator than the putter, but at least one post here suggested not necessarily), but I am curious enough to pay ONCE for a top notch fitting to see what I can learn about my stroke characteristics. If I come away with a new putter or not isn't primary.

I'd second that inconsistent pace is not necessarily operator only. If your putter doesn't give you optimal launch, there's the chance the ball is starting by skidding rather than rolling; leading to inconsistent putt length. A well-administered fitting would eliminate this as a possibility.

 

Let us know how it all pans out.

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:cobra-small:            Cobra F9 9.5° (Hzrdus Yellow X)

:srixon-small:                     H85 16° and 19° (Hzrdus Black 85 6.0)

:mizuno-small:                    MP20 MMC 4-PW (KBS $ Taper 120S)

:mizuno-small:                    T20 51°, 8° (KBS $ Taper 120S)

:mizuno-small:                    T20 55°, 9° (KBS $ Taper 120S)

:mizuno-small:                    T20 59°, 9° (KBS $ Taper 120S)

:scotty-small:                          Phantom X 5.5 34"

:srixon-small:                     ZStar XV

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I could not be more pleased and impressed with the putter fitting I had at True Spec/Pine Needles with Ryne Cole today - great guy.

I'll spare you all the gory details, the upshot is:

With my stock 34" Evnroll ER5B w Gravity Grip, I made 5 of 10 putts from 10 feet - this is my gamer of over a year so I'm obviously accustomed to it. I thought I was a decent putter with it and frankly I was surprised I only made 5 of 10...

He told me I needed at least a 35", the (relatively heavy) weight of my Gravity Grip was working against me feeling the head (good for some players, not for my stroke characteristics), and it was too "skinny" for my stroke characteristics (see pic). He said I am a forearm putter (still wrists & hands) with a slight arc though I rotate the head open and closed more than I had guessed. [It hadn't dawned on me rotation and arc don't necessarily correlate the same for all of us]

So with a 35" Evnroll ER5 (same head weight) with a lighter/wider P2 Touch Tour grip, I made 10 of 10 putts without changing my stroke in any way (I didn't look at the data from my gamer until after both) - I was stupefied. Squarer and more consistent impact angle, more consistent rotation and a little higher launch among other changes in my results.

He said while a Gravity Grip or counterweight putter grip can be beneficial for some strokes, it was detrimental for me. He also said the relatively skinny shape of the Gravity Grip worked against me. The P2 isn't larger but more rounded with even less taper, and also an off-center shaft design ("increases “ulnar deviation”, which visually is a more arched wrist position throughout the stroke. This works through the off-centre shaft design lifting the hands slightly higher at address. This position limits the wrist movement...").

He made no effort to sell me a different putter (unlike CC). So I already ordered the recommended grip and I'll have my gamer extended to 35" with the new grip. Can't wait to try it out!

He made it clear there are many legit ways to stroke a putt, and he's only interested in trying to fit a putter to the natural stroke you bring - not trying to change everyone to putt some ideal stroke. But..

...after the fitting he gave me one thing to work on to improve my putting. He also sent me the above recommendation along with all the before and after SAM PuttLab results - 8 pages of data & charts each from my gamer vs his recommended mods (I appreciate having all the data we reviewed during the fitting).

$150 gladly spent.

Screen Shot 2022-03-15 at 4.50.11 PM.png

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Holy hell! What an incredible result! If I'm ever in NC, I'm heading there. Well done!  I read through the whole thread just now, so this was such a great result, especially considering your hesitance after hearing about the Quad. 🙂 Was "she" right, or did they have a different system in place, just out of curiosity?

Congrats - excited to hear how your year goes with the new grip.

-Swanny

Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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22 minutes ago, Jondough said:

Holy hell! What an incredible result! If I'm ever in NC, I'm heading there. Well done!  I read through the whole thread just now, so this was such a great result, especially considering your hesitance after hearing about the Quad. 🙂 Was "she" right, or did they have a different system in place, just out of curiosity?

Congrats - excited to hear how your year goes with the new grip.

-Swanny

Quote

I called to cancel my putter fitting, thought I’d ask one last time. The woman (in Scottsdale) told me they use PuttLab at Pine Needles, and GC Quad for putter fittings at other True Spec locations (I don’t believe it). She’d talked to Ryan since I called last Fri, and confessed she gave me bad info then. So I’m going through with the fitting - as a learning experience, if I get more out of it all the better.

 

  • Callaway Rogue 10.5° & 3W
  • Mizuno CLK 3H 19°, JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06
  • Evnroll ER5B Fit@TrueSpec ER2
  • Maxfli Tour Snell MTB-Black
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
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