Where Should I Go For A Putter Fitting?

[Middler]

I'm not unhappy with my current putter (my alignment is good, my pace is inconsistent long and short - I assume that's more the operator than the putter, but at least one post here suggested not necessarily), but I am curious enough to pay ONCE for a top notch fitting to see what I can learn about my stroke characteristics. If I come away with a new putter or not isn't primary.

So I had a driver fitting at Club Champion that was worthless. When I shared that here, some told me it was my own fault. So now's your chance to put your expertise to good use (there are most certainly many more knowledgeable than I am here).

Most of the big name fitters are within driving distance NC/SC and I'm not willing to get on a plane for a putter fitting. Is there one better than another, one standout? Should I narrow it down to Quintic, SAM, BioMech or another technology? Or some tech or fitters I should cross off my list - I am not keen on Club Champion after my BS driver fitting, but I won't rule them out.

Tell me where to go (OK, your second idea) for an instructive, conclusive putter fitting...

[RickyBobby_PR]

If any brand then TruSpec in Pine needles would be my first choice

If brand specific and the brand doesn’t matter as long as it works Seemore at their facility in Franklin, TN.

I have no idea what system is better. I’ll let those who are more into putting that i am answer

[PMookie]

I agree with making sure you’re getting a Quintic assessment as a part of the fitting, I’ve not been impressed with SAM. I’m an Edel “homer” and I believe  in their fittings since I’ve seen actual results, but you still need a gods fitter with experience to do that fitting the right way. My guy in MS only charged $40 for the fitting, so it was worth it even if I didn’t buy the putter. If Edel is a choice, reach-out to Edel and ask who’d they recommend in your area. They’ll shoot you straight.

[cnosil]

IMO, the key to a putter fitting is finding a good fitter and I think that is the challenge.  From a system perspective,  you have SAM, Quintic,, Capto, and Biomech.   As mentioned you could also do and Edel fitting.   I've personally done Edel, Sam, and Biomech.   SAM, Capto, and Biomech are measurements of the putter and how the putter moves through the stroke.  Capto is probably the best followed by SAM.  I wasn't impressed but Biomech, but it could have been the "fitter"   Quintic is about the ball and how it reacts to the stroke.    If I had a choice i'd do Quintic.  

Unfortunately,  I have no clue on where you should go.  

[cnosil]

Overnight thought.   Hit me that you said NC was a good location (thought you were a west coast guy).  My one choice would be David Orr; he is a putting specialist and is at Pine Needles.  Not cheap but I think it would be one if the best experiences you could have since he simply knows his stuff!

https://flatstickacademy.com/flatstick-instruction-2/

 

to kind of get a flavor this thoughts you can watch this:

 

[Quigleyd]

I don't know if one system is better than another. I only have experience with the SAM system. Which I found to be very good and provides very interesting data. If you are going to pay for a putter fitting, I would make sure they are using some kind of system and that the person doing the fitting understands what they are looking at, and can explain it. There can be a lot of info that can easily be misunderstood otherwise. 

[Middler]

Update: I have a putter fitting booked at Pine Needles in a couple weeks. I called to verify what equipment they use, assuming it was Quintic or PuttLab, and they told me they use the Foresight Essential Putting Analysis using a GC Quad? I’ve never heard of GC Quad aside from other full swing clubs. I want a proper fitting, not a putting lesson. Anyone have any idea what I’m getting myself into - I may cancel if it’s primarily a lesson.

[GregGarner]

On 1/13/2022 at 4:51 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

If any brand then TruSpec in Pine needles would be my first choice

seconded. I had a putter and wedge fitting here and learned a lot about my game in addition to getting the right specs to then make my own purchase decision. (The fitter actually said, "I can't get you what you need, but look for these specs...")

I would also recommend 2nd Swing or basically anyone else that uses Quintec and knows what they're doing (DO NOT go to Golf Galaxy or PGASS)

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Update: I have a putter fitting booked at Pine Needles in a couple weeks. I called to verify what equipment they use, assuming it was Quintic or PuttLab, and they told me they use the Foresight Essential Putting Analysis using a GC Quad? I’ve never heard of GC Quad aside from other full swing clubs. I want a proper fitting, not a putting lesson. Anyone have any idea what I’m getting myself into - I may cancel if it’s primarily a lesson.

That's new, then. It was SAM when I went last spring.

[Middler]

21 minutes ago, greggarner said:

That's new, then. It was SAM when I went last spring.

I was surprised, but the woman I talked to insisted they used Foresight putter fitting. I told her I didn’t even know GC Quads were used for anything other than full swing clubs, and she acted like I was an idiot. I will probably cancel my session at Pine Needles, I don’t want a putting lesson masquerading as a fitting. I was looking forward to it…

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

I was surprised, but the woman I talked to insisted they used Foresight putter fitting. I told her I didn’t even know GC Quads were used for anything other than full swing clubs, and she acted like I was an idiot. I will probably cancel my session at Pine Needles, I don’t want a putting lesson masquerading as a fitting. I was looking forward to it…

GC Quad added putter analysis to their product probably 4 years ago.  MGS actually looked at doing some of their putter testing using the GC Quad.   You can look at the data it captures here:

https://www.foresightsports.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2021/EPA Putting Guide %26 Glossary.pdf

And a video of what it does here:

 

Kind of a combination of Puttlab and Quintic.  Why do you think it will be a lesson and not a fitting?   The purpose of the devices is to provide information to the fitter so they can help tweak the putter to optimize results.   

[Middler]

59 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Kind of a combination of Puttlab and Quintic.  Why do you think it will be a lesson and not a fitting?   The purpose of the devices is to provide information to the fitter so they can help tweak the putter to optimize results.   

Mostly because it’s an unknown quantity to me, and I had a bad (driver fitting) experience once, don’t want to repeat that again. Why do I see most places using Puttlab or Quintic, and none using Foresight for putting? I found a few on search today, but they’re few and far between from firms I’ve never heard of.

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, Middler said:

Mostly because it’s an unknown quantity to me, and I had a bad (driver fitting) experience once, don’t want to repeat that again. Why do I see most places using Puttlab or Quintic, and none using Foresight for putting? I found a few on search today, but they’re few and far between from firms I’ve never heard of.

Couldn't tell you why.   I agree that it is odd, as I've seem Quintic, Puttlab, Capto, and a few others but no one really seems to use GC Quad for putter fitting.  

[Bobbers]

I got great benefit from my Edel fitting.  Of course it was aimed at their putters (no pun intended) but the end result, in terms of counterweighting, head weight, loft and lie could be used with other putters if that was your agreement with the fitter beforehand?  Maybe?

[GregGarner]

13 hours ago, Middler said:

I was surprised, but the woman I talked to insisted they used Foresight putter fitting. I told her I didn’t even know GC Quads were used for anything other than full swing clubs, and she acted like I was an idiot. I will probably cancel my session at Pine Needles, I don’t want a putting lesson masquerading as a fitting. I was looking forward to it…

Don't believe her. Lol

Each shop runs itself and she is just a scheduler based on Phoenix. The guys running the pine needles shop are legit

Edited March 5, 2022 by greggarner

[Middler]

58 minutes ago, greggarner said:

Don't believe her. Lol

Each shop runs itself and she is just a scheduler based on Phoenix. The guys running the pine needles shop are legit

I emailed and they didn’t answer. So I called and got “her.” She acted like I was stupid for asking and didn’t see anything unusual about GC Quad putting analysis. So I don’t know if it’s worth a 4 hour drive and $150 if they can’t give me a straight answer…

[Middler]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:06 PM, Middler said:

Update: I have a putter fitting booked at Pine Needles in a couple weeks. I called to verify what equipment they use, assuming it was Quintic or PuttLab, and they told me they use the Foresight Essential Putting Analysis using a GC Quad? I’ve never heard of GC Quad aside from other full swing clubs. I want a proper fitting, not a putting lesson. Anyone have any idea what I’m getting myself into - I may cancel if it’s primarily a lesson.

On 3/4/2022 at 6:39 PM, greggarner said:

That's new, then. It was SAM when I went last spring.

On 3/5/2022 at 8:50 AM, greggarner said:

Don't believe her. Lol

Each shop runs itself and she is just a scheduler based on Phoenix. The guys running the pine needles shop are legit

I called to cancel my putter fitting, thought I’d ask one last time. The woman (in Scottsdale) told me they use PuttLab at Pine Needles, and GC Quad for putter fittings at other True Spec locations (I don’t believe it). She’d talked to Ryan since I called last Fri, and confessed she gave me bad info then. Played with a guy yesterday who’s been to True Spec at Pine Needles and he raved about them, and the course too. So I’m going through with the fitting - as a learning experience, if I get more out of it all the better.

[Blueberry_Squishie]

On 1/14/2022 at 6:51 AM, Middler said:

I'm not unhappy with my current putter (my alignment is good, my pace is inconsistent long and short - I assume that's more the operator than the putter, but at least one post here suggested not necessarily), but I am curious enough to pay ONCE for a top notch fitting to see what I can learn about my stroke characteristics. If I come away with a new putter or not isn't primary.

I'd second that inconsistent pace is not necessarily operator only. If your putter doesn't give you optimal launch, there's the chance the ball is starting by skidding rather than rolling; leading to inconsistent putt length. A well-administered fitting would eliminate this as a possibility.

 

Let us know how it all pans out.

[Middler]

I could not be more pleased and impressed with the putter fitting I had at True Spec/Pine Needles with Ryne Cole today - great guy.

I'll spare you all the gory details, the upshot is:

With my stock 34" Evnroll ER5B w Gravity Grip, I made 5 of 10 putts from 10 feet - this is my gamer of over a year so I'm obviously accustomed to it. I thought I was a decent putter with it and frankly I was surprised I only made 5 of 10...

He told me I needed at least a 35", the (relatively heavy) weight of my Gravity Grip was working against me feeling the head (good for some players, not for my stroke characteristics), and it was too "skinny" for my stroke characteristics (see pic). He said I am a forearm putter (still wrists & hands) with a slight arc though I rotate the head open and closed more than I had guessed. [It hadn't dawned on me rotation and arc don't necessarily correlate the same for all of us]

So with a 35" Evnroll ER5 (same head weight) with a lighter/wider P2 Touch Tour grip, I made 10 of 10 putts without changing my stroke in any way (I didn't look at the data from my gamer until after both) - I was stupefied. Squarer and more consistent impact angle, more consistent rotation and a little higher launch among other changes in my results.

He said while a Gravity Grip or counterweight putter grip can be beneficial for some strokes, it was detrimental for me. He also said the relatively skinny shape of the Gravity Grip worked against me. The P2 isn't larger but more rounded with even less taper, and also an off-center shaft design ("increases “ulnar deviation”, which visually is a more arched wrist position throughout the stroke. This works through the off-centre shaft design lifting the hands slightly higher at address. This position limits the wrist movement...").

He made no effort to sell me a different putter (unlike CC). So I already ordered the recommended grip and I'll have my gamer extended to 35" with the new grip. Can't wait to try it out!

He made it clear there are many legit ways to stroke a putt, and he's only interested in trying to fit a putter to the natural stroke you bring - not trying to change everyone to putt some ideal stroke. But..

...after the fitting he gave me one thing to work on to improve my putting. He also sent me the above recommendation along with all the before and after SAM PuttLab results - 8 pages of data & charts each from my gamer vs his recommended mods (I appreciate having all the data we reviewed during the fitting).

$150 gladly spent.

[GolfSpy SAM]

Holy hell! What an incredible result! If I'm ever in NC, I'm heading there. Well done!  I read through the whole thread just now, so this was such a great result, especially considering your hesitance after hearing about the Quad.  Was "she" right, or did they have a different system in place, just out of curiosity?

Congrats - excited to hear how your year goes with the new grip.

-Swanny

[Middler]

22 minutes ago, Jondough said:

Holy hell! What an incredible result! If I'm ever in NC, I'm heading there. Well done!  I read through the whole thread just now, so this was such a great result, especially considering your hesitance after hearing about the Quad.  Was "she" right, or did they have a different system in place, just out of curiosity?

Congrats - excited to hear how your year goes with the new grip.

-Swanny

Quote

I called to cancel my putter fitting, thought I’d ask one last time. The woman (in Scottsdale) told me they use PuttLab at Pine Needles, and GC Quad for putter fittings at other True Spec locations (I don’t believe it). She’d talked to Ryan since I called last Fri, and confessed she gave me bad info then. So I’m going through with the fitting - as a learning experience, if I get more out of it all the better.

 

[GolfSpy SAM]

...Reading Comprehension, B-minus.

[Middler]

1 hour ago, Jondough said:

...Reading Comprehension, B-minus.

Not really, looking back I worded it poorly.

[cnosil]

Sounds like a great session and you learned a great deal about putters and your putting stroke.  Amazing how such simple things like grip and weight and offset can significantly influence the stroke and results.  

[Middler]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Sounds like a great session and you learned a great deal about putters and your putting stroke.  Amazing how such simple things like grip and weight and offset can significantly influence the stroke and results.  

And going from 34” to 35.”

But I was shocked, from 5 of 10 with MY gamer to 10 of 10 with what seems like very subtle changes! He didn’t tell me exactly what he’d changed until after I putted 10 of 10. The grip felt a little different, and though the tweaked putter felt a little different I didn’t pick up on the fact he’d handed me a 35” putter - he told me after I putted.

There is no way I would ever have figured it out for myself, but it was obvious to Ryne just watching me putt and looking at the PuttLab results - that’s really the point for me. 

[GregGarner]

12 hours ago, Middler said:

There is no way I would ever have figured it out for myself, but it was obvious to Ryne just watching me putt and looking at the PuttLab results - that’s really the point for me. 

So glad you had such a good experience! My putter fitting with him was pretty similar. We had a great discussion about my trigger. Which, since I was 8, I thought was a forward press with my hands. He said, "you've never watched yourself putt on video... here, I'll show you. It's not your hands." Sure enough, my trigger is my right/trail shoulder pressing down and towards the ball. He said he's never seen that before, but it's why I should have never been fit into a face-balanced putter. My stroke is SBST, but (to your earlier point), stroke is not the same as rotation and with face-balanced, I was under-rotating on the back and sliding open on the through. Add a tiny bit of toe-hang and bam: dialed.

Amazing how a fitting with a professional is never just a fitting!

[Middler]

Probably TMI for most (all?). Some of the interesting changes, the other 21 metrics I was OK or largely unchanged. He suggested I work on launch, I'm still lower than ideal - and didn't know that before the fitting...

 

[Blueberry_Squishie]

Such a big jump in your Speedsistency.

[Middler]

Maybe TMI so FWIW, but a data based update. 

Now 4 months after my True Spec putter fitting with Ryne Cole, I still could not be more pleased. With relatively minor changes (noted above) to my current putter, the difference in my ability to start putts exactly on my intended line is shocking to me. A putter fitting does not help you read greens or judge pace, but the ability to start the ball on the intended line with proper roll is also essential. Playing three times a week since Mar 25th, I have gained 1.9 strokes per round based on # of putts, and my average score and HI has dropped accordingly. My other stats have not changed (e.g. GIR, FWs, etc.) for anyone who might wonder, but the difference in my ability to start the ball online has improved night and day.

I am not an advocate for fittings as a first step to improving scoring in all cases, but I could not be more pleased with True Spec and Ryne at Pine Needles in NC. I expect to replace my other 13 clubs this Fall, and I will go to Ryne for that.

Thanks to those here who pointed me to Ryne at True Spec.

Unfortunately I've had a horrible experience at Club Champion with a worthless/costly driver fitting. There are plenty of paid and unpaid posers out there blindly following a script for a fitting. So if you find a great fitter, I'd stick with him/her.

[ryan.mzzz]

On 7/19/2022 at 1:51 PM, Middler said:

Maybe TMI so FWIW, but a data based update. 

Now 4 months after my True Spec putter fitting with Ryne Cole, I still could not be more pleased. With relatively minor changes (noted above) to my current putter, the difference in my ability to start putts exactly on my intended line is shocking to me. A putter fitting does not help you read greens or judge pace, but the ability to start the ball on the intended line with proper roll is also essential. Playing three times a week since Mar 25th, I have gained 1.9 strokes per round based on # of putts, and my average score and HI has dropped accordingly. My other stats have not changed (e.g. GIR, FWs, etc.) for anyone who might wonder, but the difference in my ability to start the ball online has improved night and day.

I am not an advocate for fittings as a first step to improving scoring in all cases, but I could not be more pleased with True Spec and Ryne at Pine Needles in NC. I expect to replace my other 13 clubs this Fall, and I will go to Ryne for that.

Thanks to those here who pointed me to Ryne at True Spec.

Unfortunately I've had a horrible experience at Club Champion with a worthless/costly driver fitting. There are plenty of paid and unpaid posers out there blindly following a script for a fitting. So if you find a great fitter, I'd stick with him/her.

it’s funny, the gravity grip was a revelation for me, but I was used to counterbalanced grips already so it was only a shape change for me. I hopped on the LAB golf train once I saw a DF in person at the PGA store, and I got the DF head spinning like a sideways helicopter as fast as I could and then supporting the shaft parallel to the ground so I could judge how finely balanced it was about its center shaft. The DF is dead centered around the point where the shaft is drilled into the putter head. So, at that point I was sold on the DF, but I was highly anxious about giving up my gravity grip, since I was putting as good as I ever had with it. The LAB press 3 that comes on the DF is pretty similar to the grip you went to at least in shape from above, and as it turns out, I had nothing to fear. Day one was a little rough after the changeover, but was also changing putters, from a seemore center shafted mallet, and my putting stroke, from a quick and stabby jon rahm style to a back slow and let it go pendulum style. Day two was a little better, and then day three yesterday was the best putting day of my life on the perfect practice mat as well as over an hour on a putting green. While I wish I had access to the same type of data you got in your fitting to justify my feelings, the sense of shock I felt, in a good way, must have been similar to your experience going from 5/10 to 10/10. So I’m very happy that you were able to experience that as well. I can’t wait for this weather to break and allow me to get some real rounds in, but I’m as excited to play golf  as I have been for some time. I can only hope that 4 months from now I’m still feeling this way. I will say that I have to hold my unequivocal recommendation for LAB golf as a company at this time, as I’m having an issue currently with their customer service department, which I’d rather not get into until it’s resolved, but as far as the ability to launch exactly on my intended line, roll control and forgiveness, i’m about to start recommending the DF and the LAB fit process to close friends of mine, and offering to pay their restocking fee should they decide the DF is not for them after using it for a few days.

I too had an absolutely horrific experience at club champion(san mateo ca), but that’s a story for another day. I’m far from the Carolina’s, but if I wasn’t I would definitely go with Ryne and True Spec based on your experience and recommendation. That’s definitely the type of experience we are all looking for. 

[depan]

I just called my local 2nd Swing and they said they just got a Quintic in but that it doesn't have camera/video. Has anyone ever heard of this? I was assuming I would go to The Fitting Lab as they are listed on Edel's website but they have SAM Putt Lab. Quintic seems more comprehensive to me (but maybe I'm wrong) but I have no idea what to make of a Quintic without some sort of visual capture. Does anybody have any experience with this?