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Releasing the putter head


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I’ve been snowed in and unable to play golf for the last few weeks and have been doing a lot of indoors putting.  I’ve been using blast motion to get some data on my stroke.  I am, and have been anytime it is measured, leaving the face open at impact.  I believe it has to do with me not releasing the putter enough through impact.  
I am a fairly decent putter, but it is an area that I would like to continue to improve.  I made a lot of improvement when I started using a Seemore center shaft putter.  My eyes are cross dominant and for whatever reason I seem to see the lines much better with the center shaft putters.  The one I am currently using has full toe hang.  
What drills or thoughts have you guys used to release the putter more?  I’ve done some one hand work and had the swing thought of “draw” while putting and both have helped some.  Thinking draw helps my numbers a lot but it does not feel good and it would take a long time for me to be confident using that feel on the course.  Letting gravity play a larger role in the forward stroke has helped some, and is something I have been working on before I started worrying about my face angle at impact.  I’ve also played around with grips a little and a grip similar to Abraham Anser’s (overlap grip with hands almost on top of each other, kinda of a double overlap) seems to help me release it better but feels considerably less secure than my normal reverse overlap grip.

anyways, any tips are appreciated.  Thanks!

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One hand putting with your trail hand should help train you to square the face and release the putter. 

I have also found that my shoulder alignment has an effect, if my shoulders get open I tend to leave the face open.  I think my subconscious adjusts my stroke to compensate for me being aligned wrong compared to what my eye sees.  For me, an open stance but squaring my shoulders to the line gets a square face and release with my putting stroke.  I use a standard grip but with two fingers overlapping to keep either hand from being dominant.

  

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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IMO and based on what I have learned:

1)  you have a stroke pattern and putter that leaves the face open and assuming you are right handed push the ball to the right of the hole.  I also don't think the putter influences how you see the line,  you see the line based on your setup and how your eyes work.  The putter then fits the setup and stroke needs. 

2)  you can try to change your stroke to better fit the putter you have.  This seems to be the path you are going down by asking for drills.  Possibilities for more rotation would be change the putters grip to try and generate more rotation.  Open the stance to compensate for the right  miss.  Work on throwing/rotating the hands more like you are hitting a draw.   Move the ball forward so the club is more closed at impact.  If you setup using the grip, remove and rotate the grip to the right when you install as this will result in a more closed face at impact.   These could work during your practice sessions and generally on the course; however, the concern would be when you get to pressure situations as your natural tendencies would start to take over.  

3) Find a different putter that is more closed at impact.   You said you are using a seemore;  are you using the offset shaft?   The putter itself influences how you swing the club so find a putter that is more closed at impact with your current stroke.  You could also find a putter that you setup more closed that is more square at impact.   

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
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Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
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Get a putting mirror and make sure it’s not alignment issues and where your eyes are in relation to the ball.

Something that helped me when I took putting lessons was a putting rail 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

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When I was struggling with putting and wanted a reset, I reached out to @cnosil and we discussed some points regarding the putting game.  He is an outstanding resource.

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
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  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
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Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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35 minutes ago, bens197 said:

When I was struggling with putting and wanted a reset, I reached out to @cnosil and we discussed some points regarding the putting game.  He is an outstanding resource.

Thanks for the compliment.   I only communicate what I was taught by a great putting instructor.   Ultimately putting is about making choices and how as a player you manage those choices.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Thanks for the compliment.   I only communicate what I was taught by a great putting instructor.   Ultimately putting is about making choices and how as a player you manage those choices.   

It's true and it was worth sharing.  

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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4 hours ago, cnosil said:

IMO and based on what I have learned:

1)  you have a stroke pattern and putter that leaves the face open and assuming you are right handed push the ball to the right of the hole.  I also don't think the putter influences how you see the line,  you see the line based on your setup and how your eyes work.  The putter then fits the setup and stroke needs. 

2)  you can try to change your stroke to better fit the putter you have.  This seems to be the path you are going down by asking for drills.  Possibilities for more rotation would be change the putters grip to try and generate more rotation.  Open the stance to compensate for the right  miss.  Work on throwing/rotating the hands more like you are hitting a draw.   Move the ball forward so the club is more closed at impact.  If you setup using the grip, remove and rotate the grip to the right when you install as this will result in a more closed face at impact.   These could work during your practice sessions and generally on the course; however, the concern would be when you get to pressure situations as your natural tendencies would start to take over.  

3) Find a different putter that is more closed at impact.   You said you are using a seemore;  are you using the offset shaft?   The putter itself influences how you swing the club so find a putter that is more closed at impact with your current stroke.  You could also find a putter that you setup more closed that is more square at impact.   

 

1. Perhaps “see” the line is the wrong term, but I definitely see the way the putter aims at the line better with center shaft.  My eyes are cross dominant and perhaps that plays a role.  The zero offset, full toe hang seems to be a good fit for me.

2.  I’m a decent putter but would like to be better.  It seems making improvements to my mechanics is a good place to start.  

3.  I have one of almost every putter hosel.  There is probably 15 or so putters lined up in my hallway where I putt.  I don’t need a major change.  Just would like to get my face within 1 degree of square nearly every time.  I’m not that far off.  I don’t want a putter that is more closed at address I just need to get better at returning it to square.

I really appreciate the suggestions but I don’t believe the solution is yet another putter.  I think I just need to work on returning the putter face to square better and I think releasing the putter more will help do that.  I could be wrong that the release is the culprit and perhaps there is another issue with my stroke.  Perhaps there is no issue at all aas my numbers are not bad, just not as good as I would like.

Edited by MollyCyrus
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3 hours ago, Riverboat said:

These are very basic steps to try before moving to anything drastic. 

If you don't already do so, use some alignment aid on the ball to line up with your intended line, then set the putter square to that line, then set your feet square also. Most people who line up badly don't even know it. It looks square to them even if it's way off. They think they are hitting the ball offline when it's going right where they are aimed.  (The alignment aid has to be definitive... straight and dark. I've had friends use markings that are not suitable like the Titleist logo that simply don't lend themselves to an unnambiguous line.)

Whether it's a full swing or a putting stroke, in my experience, the biggest culprit in an open face at impact is tension in the arms and hands. Make sure you have a light grip and the arms are loose and fluid. Squeezing and tensing up makes it impossible to release the clubhead. 

Once all of this is accomplished my last thought is always, putt it like you don't care. Your life isn't going to change based on whether that putt goes in or not, so let your body do its thing. 

Good tips that have definitely helped me.  I do use an alignment mirror when practicing.  Not being concerned with the results, or at least loosening up and thinking that way,has been a game changer especially on the 4-5 footers.

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3 hours ago, Riverboat said:

These are very basic steps to try before moving to anything drastic. 

If you don't already do so, use some alignment aid on the ball to line up with your intended line, then set the putter square to that line, then set your feet square also. Most people who line up badly don't even know it. It looks square to them even if it's way off. They think they are hitting the ball offline when it's going right where they are aimed.  (The alignment aid has to be definitive... straight and dark. I've had friends use markings that are not suitable like the Titleist logo that simply don't lend themselves to an unnambiguous line.)

Whether it's a full swing or a putting stroke, in my experience, the biggest culprit in an open face at impact is tension in the arms and hands. Make sure you have a light grip and the arms are loose and fluid. Squeezing and tensing up makes it impossible to release the clubhead. 

Once all of this is accomplished my last thought is always, putt it like you don't care. Your life isn't going to change based on whether that putt goes in or not, so let your body do its thing. 

I’m always very careful to line up square.  I check myself regularly with a mirror.  I use a line on the ball and make sure that everything is square to the line, which helps dramatically.  Those are definitely good tips which help me a lot.  Honestly I may have overstated the issue.  I’ve just had a lot of time to use the blast motion sensor and am finding the face is slightly open.  

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28 minutes ago, MollyCyrus said:

1. Perhaps “see” the line is the wrong term, but I definitely see the way the putter aims at the line better with center shaft.  My eyes are cross dominant and perhaps that plays a role.  The zero offset, full toe hang seems to be a good fit for me.

2.  I’m a decent putter but would like to be better.  It seems making improvements to my mechanics is a good place to start.  

3.  I have one of almost every putter hosel.  There is probably 15 or so putters lined up in my hallway where I putt.  I don’t need a major change.  Just would like to get my face within 1 degree of square nearly every time.  I’m not that far off.  I don’t want a putter that is more closed at address I just need to get better at returning it to square.

I really appreciate the suggestions but I don’t believe the solution is yet another putter.  I think I just need to work on returning the putter face to square better and I think releasing the putter more will help do that.  I could be wrong that the release is the culprit and perhaps there is another issue with my stroke.  Perhaps there is no issue at all aas my numbers are not bad, just not as good as I would like.

putting is all about choices and you've decided to make your stroke work for that putter.   A putter face that is square at aim or impact isn't always what you need. Many of the best putters in the work setup with the face open or closed at setup.  The face at impact controls about 85% of the direction but there is influence from the path.     If you simply want to work on getting the face back to ideal position then do gate drills that allows for a .5* of error and figure out what you need to do to to roll the ball through the gate;  some people also use narrow yardsticks and roll the ball down the length.  Make sure to do this drill with different stroke lengths not just one length.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

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Have you video'ed your putting stroke?  From down the line and face on.  It might show something different than how it feels.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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7 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

Have you video'ed your putting stroke?  From down the line and face on.  It might show something different than how it feels.

Good suggestion, as is your comment about one-handed putting with the trail hand.  Many people have a tendency to move their body during the putting stroke; probably a carryover from the rotation required during golf swings.  

I place my left hand on my left hip and make one-handed putts with my right hand.  I can feel when my lower body moves with my left hand.  This is the first drill I use every putting practice before a round.  I start with 3 footers that are straight; at 3 and 9, then 6 and 12 o'clock.  Have to make them all.  Then move back to 5 feet.  I should make most of those, but I don't get upset if I miss a couple (I can usually tell what I did wrong).  This is the same drill as using putting down a metal ruler, just the on course version.  Repeat drill using both hands; this will tell how much influence the lead hand has on the path of the putt, or whether the body is too active.

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On 1/22/2022 at 2:22 PM, Shapotomous said:

Have you video'ed your putting stroke?  From down the line and face on.  It might show something different than how it feels.

I have.  It was interesting.  It showed me more about tempo and rhythm.  The positions were more or less what I expected but the way it looked overall was definitely not done as nicely as it feels when I stroke the putts.  

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On 1/22/2022 at 2:14 PM, cnosil said:

putting is all about choices and you've decided to make your stroke work for that putter.   A putter face that is square at aim or impact isn't always what you need. Many of the best putters in the work setup with the face open or closed at setup.  The face at impact controls about 85% of the direction but there is influence from the path.     If you simply want to work on getting the face back to ideal position then do gate drills that allows for a .5* of error and figure out what you need to do to to roll the ball through the gate;  some people also use narrow yardsticks and roll the ball down the length.  Make sure to do this drill with different stroke lengths not just one length.  

This is something I wonder about a lot.  When I first got the blast motion device I spent a lot of time getting the face square at impact and became very proficient at it.  My putting suffered a lot.  I was making a lot of unnatural, and incorrect I’m almost certain, manipulations to get it square.  I also lost all feel for distance because everything was so robotic.  I stopped using the blast motion for a good while.  Lately I’ve been trying to use it again but without making any big fundamental changes to my stroke, as I am a fairly good putter (for a 3.5 handicap golfer anyways).  
 

also, while I may have sounded resistant to changing putters, I really am not.  I have a ton of different putters and have bought and sold a bunch more over the past two years.  Lately I have been trying to commit to the one that feels best (Seemore Nashville mfpg1 with Garsen ultimate grip).  The less offset a putter has, the better my ability to aim it.  I think it relates to my cross dominant eyes but I have seen that others have the opposite experience and are cross dominant but like a plumbers neck or something with offset. Center shaft or slightly off center shafted putters with zero offset seem to be the best and short slant or flownecks also work well. I prefer blades or mid mallets.  The squareness/ sharpness of the toe of blades seems to help me aim.  I’ve had success with a variety of different toe hangs.  Right now I’m using a full toe hang but I’ve also pitted well with face balanced and everything in between the two. The only class of putter I can think of that I have not tried are the torque balanced ones.  The l.a.b. Ones appeal to me most because of the no offset, but the aesthetics of the putters do not do a lot for me.  The Mezz definitely looks better and I would like to demo one, but I like the square toe on my Seemore and my Scotty 2.6, so maybe the blad.1 would be better.  If there is another putter you would suggest I’m definitely interested, but I feel like I’ve tried most everything.  Full disclosure, I’m not sure that release is the culprit of the not square face.  I’m also not so sure that it is an issue at all, the more I think about it.  My efforts may be better spent practicing other things trather than chasing numbers.

Anyways, thank you for your detailed responses.  I appreciate them, and a lot of good suggestions!

Edited by MollyCyrus
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53 minutes ago, MollyCyrus said:

also, while I may have sounded resistant to changing putters, I really am not.  I have a ton of different putters and have bought and sold a bunch more over the past two years.  Lately I have been trying to commit to the one that feels best (Seemore Nashville mfpg1 with Garsen ultimate grip).  The less offset a putter has, the better my ability to aim it.  I think it relates to my cross dominant eyes but I have seen that others have the opposite experience and are cross dominant but like a plumbers neck or something with offset. Center shaft or slightly off center shafted putters with zero offset seem to be the best and short slant or flownecks also work well. I prefer blades or mid mallets.  

You are focusing a lot on aim at setup.  I prefer to think of it as consistent aim at setup.   If you consistently setup with a face that is 1* open but putt well, should you  change how you aim?  Tiger; who some consider to be a really good putter, sets up with the face open.  Eye dominance seems to be more about ball position and how you need you stance to properly see the line.  
 

if you miss right, there are multiple ways to bring the ball more to the left.   Move the ball more forward in the stance; this will result is a face that is more closed at impact.     Open you stance and shoulders as it will add some left bias to the path.   Power the stroke with the left side as that will also shift the path left. Moving the shaft intersection point more towards the center, as this has a tendency to speed up the rotation of the putter.  Putter offset; more offset tends to keep the putter more closed to the path.  Putter weight, use a lighter weight putter as that will have a tendency to speed up the rotation     Blast is a cool tool, but as you said, chasing perfect numbers may not result in better putting.

we have primarily talked about putters and the stroke.  You indicate you want to improve putting; how are you evaluating your putting and what are your future expectations?  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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