Scratch male vs LPGA

[Riverboat 806]

The best thing about the women's tournament this weekend? The celebs, including a bunch of scratch and near scratch male players, some former athletes like Derek Lowe and John Smoltz, played the same tees as the lpga pros. Lowe (.2 handicap) won among them, and finished 23 strokes BEHIND Danielle Kang. He would have finished 25th in a field of 29 lpga pros. Not one of the males managed even one round in the 60s. Kang had all 4. Maybe this will shut up guys who don't think lpga players are really that good. 

Edited January 24 by Riverboat
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[russtopherb 9,392]

Nah it probably won’t shut men up about it, sadly. 

[DaveP043 5,478]

10 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

The best thing about the women's tournament this weekend? The celebs, including a bunch of scratch and near scratch male players, some former athletes like Derek Lowe and John Smoltz, played the same tees as the lpga pros. Lowe (.2 handicap) won among them, and finished 23 strokes BEHIND Danielle Kang. He would have finished 25th in a field of 29 lpga pros. Not one of the males managed even one round in the 60s. Kang had all 4. Maybe this will shut up guys who don't think lpga players are really that good. 

There's no doubt that the women really are good, but remember that this field included only players who have won a a tournament in the last two years.  This was definitely NOT an average LPGA field.  

[TBS 585]

15 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

There's no doubt that the women really are good, but remember that this field included only players who have won a a tournament in the last two years.  This was definitely NOT an average LPGA field.  

Right... so the average scratch golfer wouldn't even get close to a Top 25 finish and most likely wouldn't make the cut on any given week in the LPGA . They might not be dead last but they definitely wouldn't compete.

[Riverboat 806]

12 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

There's no doubt that the women really are good, but remember that this field included only players who have won a a tournament in the last two years.  This was definitely NOT an average LPGA field.  

And these weren't average scratch male golfers. Professional athletes used to performing under intense pressure would fare way better than the typical scratch guy, I'd wager. If I had a dime for every low handicap Joe who had told me he'd destroy the lpga players from "those short tees they play"... If this doesn't tell them they are idiots, I don't know what will. 

Even lpga tour winners have off weeks, and I'm sure the bottom 3 or 4 did just that, and Lowe barely beat them. If it's a full field, lots of lesser players have good weeks, and they beat him too. So in a full field, he maybe finishes what, 80th. Or most likely missed the cut along with the few he beat here. Sorry, there's no way to spin this for the grunting men who somehow feel it makes them more masculine to believe they could beat the best girls at this game.

And to clarify, nobody is saying the lpga would beat the pga from the pga tees. The very best men are stronger and would win easily. But it's time for the good local players to shut their mouths with their uninformed beliefs about the relative talents of the lpga.

[TR1PTIK 3,497]

I don't get the argument in the first place. I'm assuming you read whatever Golf.com or Golf Digest (can't remember which) posted regarding the topic. Guys arguing they could score just as well if they could play from the forward tees... SMH. Thing is, LPGA players play from tees that are roughly the same distance if not longer to that of the average male golfer. The women are GOOD and it's just as simple as that. Anyone saying different isn't paying attention, and clearly has never been to an LPGA tournament (which are plenty accessible compared to PGA tourney's BTW).

[Riverboat 806]

10 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I don't get the argument in the first place. I'm assuming you read whatever Golf.com or Golf Digest (can't remember which) posted regarding the topic. Guys arguing they could score just as well if they could play from the forward tees... SMH. Thing is, LPGA players play from tees that are roughly the same distance if not longer to that of the average male golfer. The women are GOOD and it's just as simple as that. Anyone saying different isn't paying attention, and clearly has never been to an LPGA tournament (which are plenty accessible compared to PGA tourney's BTW).

Zactly!

[Shankdog 54]

I think it’s great that the LPGA is getting both more respect as well as bigger prize purses.  They are truly impressive and entertaining to watch. I think elite amateurs playing along side them at last weekends tournament highlights how really good they are. 
 

 

[revkev 25,215]

We have had LPGA players as members of our club from time to time including one who won multiple majors.  They have little trouble breaking par from 7,200 yards at sea level.  They are very good and if you gave them enough chances a woman would eventually make the cut in a PGA tour event - she wouldn't contend but she could make the cut.  That is saying a lot.

[Syks7 957]

I always feel like the people that think a scratch golfer can win in the LPGA are the same people that think the best college football team can beat the worst NFL team.  The gulf between the two levels is much, much larger than you can really understand until you actually see it.  It was great to see the side by side comparison this weekend that will be a great reference to use in the the future whenever somebody runs their mouth.

[Hook DeLoft 715]

Asking neanderthals to change their minds based on evidence is an exercise in futility.

[KC Golf 245]

14 minutes ago, Syks7 said:

I always feel like the people that think a scratch golfer can win in the LPGA are the same people that think the best college football team can beat the worst NFL team.  The gulf between the two levels is much, much larger than you can really understand until you actually see it.  It was great to see the side by side comparison this weekend that will be a great reference to use in the the future whenever somebody runs their mouth.

I totally agree with you Syks7.  This article from this weekend is a good summary.

https://golf.com/news/scratch-golfer-lpga-pros-handicap/

Scratch players regardless of their long driving skills just don't have same skills that the top 50 LPGA pros have on any given week.  If you go out and play a round at an LPGA Pro AM, you can see their golf games are just off the charts. It actually looks almost effortless, very different from PGA pros.  They also putt really well compared to most scratch players.

LPGA pros may not have the driving distances of a retired pro baseball players, but they still hit it pretty far and hit a lot of fairways in reg.  They also hit some fantastic long iron / hybrid shots.

[Syks7 957]

8 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

LPGA pros may not have the driving distances of a retired pro baseball players, but they still hit it pretty far and hit a lot of fairways in reg.  They also hit some fantastic long iron / hybrid shots.

I was having a really good time watching the driveable par 4 on Saturday when it was cold.  The ladies were hitting driver and either getting close or landing in the bunker on line with the flag.  The ams were hitting hybrids and woods cleanly but not nearly as on target as the ladies.

[Firebird 379]

I generally prefer to watch the LPGA, it is usually much more exciting. In the mens game a player shots a 10 under in the first round and is 4-5 strokes in front and unless they stuff up everyone then is trying to catch them. In the womens most of the time there are 3-4 players within a few strokes and the lead changes constantly. 

[knightsofnii 1,320]

Pretty sure that, if tasked with establishing a handicap from standard mens tees (which they already play, or even a pinch back), they'd end up with like +2 to +4 hcp, and the top like Nelly Korda, Danielle Kang, etc, more like +5.  

But then they also have tour experience which can't be measured with a handicap.  They'd smoke scratch players easily. 

 

So yea, put them up against a 0 or your local pro.  

[Syks7 957]

28 minutes ago, Firebird said:

I generally prefer to watch the LPGA, it is usually much more exciting. 

Me too.  I also very much enjoy that I can understand the shot they're playing.  The men hit the ball so far that sometimes I can't really conceive the angles they're playing.  With the LPGA I can actually see a shot that I might be able to play -- or at the very least attempt.

[BMart519 1,387]

This discussion is always stupid. Just needs to be simplified by removing gender I guess... 

A +4 is going to beat a scratch player 90+% of the time or more. Especially a +4 based on tournament rounds vs a scratch with a lot of casual play and the odd gimme. 

[Riverboat 806]

17 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

This discussion is always stupid. Just needs to be simplified by removing gender I guess... 

A +4 is going to beat a scratch player 90+% of the time or more. Especially a +4 based on tournament rounds vs a scratch with a lot of casual play and the odd gimme. 

It would be great if gender could be removed, but the guys we are talking about are always looking to somehow explain away the FACT that these women are better than they are. LPGA handicaps are not common knowledge, so their scores have to be because they play easier and shorter courses, and if these guys could just get the women on an equal paying field, they'd prove it. 

Mardy Fish is a +2.4. This means he would average about a 67 on my home course. He played the same tees as Danielle Kang this weekend and she beat him by about 30 strokes, and every woman in the field beat him. Argument over. 

[Bomber 8]

Would love to see a combined tour event - reckon it's only a few years before it happens. LPGA players have been killing it the past 3-5 years.

[cnosil 24,517]

1 hour ago, Bomber said:

Would love to see a combined tour event - reckon it's only a few years before it happens. LPGA players have been killing it the past 3-5 years.

They have had combined events on the European tour.