Range-to-Rounds ratio?

[coldsteel]

I try to balance the time I have. Full time job/no kids gives me some weekend- and evening time to practice. I differentiate between range, chipping and putting. On the range I go through the entire bag. Chipping and putting takes time to maintain some sort of level. I also do some putting in the home-office. My target is 2x range, 2x chipping and 500 putts per week but I rarely make that. I play 9 holes on a short muni once per week and try to get in 18 in the weekend.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

Most of my practice is chipping, pitching and putting - keeping those skills sharp seems to help me more than the range. YMMV

Like @cnosil said, isn’t this range time?

Why is it that range time is for so many is thought of as being on the driving range and not just practice in general?

[revkev]

At least 2/1 practice to play but that is not by choice.  I simply don't have the time to play anywhere near as much as I'd like.  I don't know what is going on in the rest of the country because from everything that I read and hear from folks who visit here Florida is in its own bubble.  Our courses are so crowded, all the time, that my preferred practice routine of playing a few holes or even 9 at the local par 3 is off the table.

 

Under normal circumstances it would be about 1/1 with at least half the practice being short game.  Perhaps the observation about lower handicaps spending more time playing than practicing is correct for this thread.  I doubt it's correct overall but I would also suspect that lower handicappers practice differently from mid to high ones - fewer balls, more alternating shots, more short game work. I had a free hour yesterday so went to the range - since I belong to a club I'm not limited in regards to how many balls I may hit but I'm also not compelled to have a bucket with 40 or 50 balls in it - I stretched, hit a number of chips and pitches on the practice green, hit some full shots, simulated a few holes and then went to the putting green.  The one thing I didn't do that I should of was hit the trap but I didn't want to spoil a good session - I felt confident when I was done - ready to tackle the course and now the wind is howling and it's 45 degrees out - that's a hard pass for me.  

[Middler]

57 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Like @cnosil said, isn’t this range time?

Why is it that range time is for so many is thought of as being on the driving range and not just practice in general?

OK. If the OP had said practice (instead of "range") vs rounds I would have answered differently. Almost none of my practice is on the driving range (as even you noted), full shots only, where it used to be. Almost all my practice is literally on the practice chipping and putting greens. I made that distinction clear in my post, so it would have been hard to misinterpret my answer...wasn't that the point?

So my practice:rounds hours number is about 1:10.

While you're picking nits - if you hit for 10 minutes on the range before every 18 holes of golf is that 1:1 or 1: 24? I actually know two players who actually spend more hours on the driving range than hours playing rounds...

[Tom the Golf Nut]

If I think back into the foggy part of the brain, when I started playing. There was definitely more range time/ practice time required as we start our golf journey. So many have mentioned practicing the short game but say we rather be on the course. Including me. But my short game work was very heavy the first 5 + years. Now it's second nature and doesn't require much to keep it sharp. So IMHO I believe your range to course ratio will change over time. Time is something most of us wish we all had more of to devote to golf. All that we have going on in our lives will dictate what we have the time to focus on. If you only have enough time to hit the range or play nine then that's what it is. At least you are able to get out and do something. 

[fixyurdivot]

I'm sure my range time ratio would increase if I could the "ranges" pros practice on .

The Ultimate Tour Pro Driving Range | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

[cnosil]

4 hours ago, Riverboat said:

Unlike the range, the practice green, practice bunkers, chipping areas... all free and available at many courses. 

Quality ball striking or quality short game? And which will lead more effectively to lower scores for the larger number of players?  

You learn to score by scoring. 

I'll address the 3 comments above that I quoted:

1.  Seems like many courses are changing and the practice area is not free and require either range ball or round purchase to use the facilities.   There are also a lot of courses that don't provide practice bunkers or a short game area.  

2.  Depends on where your issues are.  Would you advocate for a tour level short game and ball striking that results in lots of penalties or multiple shots to get into short game range?   Players need to assess their skills and see what is costing them the most strokes during a round.   I don't think anyone is advocating for just spending time hitting driver on the range but spending time where improvement is needed.   In some ways I favor quality ball striking and functional short game as I generally won't incur lots of penalties with the short game.  This is kind of where I am with my game;  I'm trying to become a better ball striker so I can take the pressure off my short game.  I'm looking to get GIR up so I don't have to rely on my short game as much.  It isn't about how pretty my swing is, but how effective my swing is.   I previously spent lots of time on the short game because I was incurring to many extra strokes in that aspect of my game.  Now my short game is functional and I am working to improve the quality of my ball striking.    There isn't a single answer;  consider the difference between a players that can barely advance the ball 50 yards, has a massive slice, and has achieved a double bogey before they even get into short game range versus the player that shooting upper 80s or the player that is in the upper 70s.   

3.   You repeat the "You learn to score by scoring" isn't as true as it used to be.  Traditionally people built their knowledge/strategy of how to play golf by playing golf.  This is what you are advocating and it works,  but it is a slow time consuming process.    Like it or not,  the game has evolved and there are spelled out strategies on how to play golf better and it can be accomplished from your sofa and not on the course.   These skills are discipline, mental strength, where should I target my tee shot, where to target my approach shot, how to manage recovery shot, and understanding your shot dispersion (which can best be obtained on a range or launch monitor).  

[cnosil]

14 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I'm sure my range time ratio would increase if I could the "ranges" pros practice on .

The Ultimate Tour Pro Driving Range | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

But they are good players,  they should be on the course and not the range 

[fixyurdivot]

14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

But they are good players,  they should be on the course and not the range 

You did have a look at the link, right?  That looks better than many golf courses .

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

3. Not buying it. While these things can help, you still don't learn to actually do it until you do it. Time on the course is nearly always more valuable to the vast majority of players than any other activity. 

Not asking you to buy it,  you have the old school mentality and there is nothing wrong with that.   I am just suggesting that things have evolved over time and that the knowledge/education you are talking about can be learned outside of actually being on the course.  

7 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

You did have a look at the link, right?  That looks better than many golf courses .

I did look at the link, but that is still range time; they aren't playing golf and scoring.     I guess the moral is beginners should be on the range,  as you get better play golf, and when you are a professional go back to the range 

[Shapotomous]

44 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I'm sure my range time ratio would increase if I could the "ranges" pros practice on .

The Ultimate Tour Pro Driving Range | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

Dang.....If I had that practice facility available I'd be happy to hit balls there all day & rarely need to play a round!! My ratio would be 95 / 5. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

greens. I made that distinction clear in my post, so it would have been hard to misinterpret my answer...wasn't that the point?

This is what cnosil asked and what I’m asking as well. Why is the driving range itself Whats considers the range? Why isn’t the chipping and putting greens considered the range as well. For me it’s all the range. Practice chipping or putting is no different than practicing full swing. It’s all practice or range time.

My theory for why people consider them different is that it builds in a reason for the golfer for why they aren’t getting better because they don’t practice. For others to not put in the work to improve because it takes time and dedication which is hard and people have a tendency to not want to to do hard things 

1 hour ago, Middler said:

While you're picking nits - if you hit for 10 minutes on the range before every 18 holes of golf is that 1:1 or 1: 24? I actually know two players who actually spend more hours on the driving range than hours playing rounds...

Anything before a round whether chipping, putting or swinging on the driving range is pretty round warmup range time and not practice time. Pre round warmup isn’t about working on drills or practice, it’s too get ready for the round.

Now you know 3 people who spend more hours practicing than playing since when I’m free during the week I spend more days hitting balls, chipping/pitching and putting than I do days playing 

[Hickory4ever]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I'll address the 3 comments above that I quoted:

1.  Seems like many courses are changing and the practice area is not free and require either range ball or round purchase to use the facilities.   There are also a lot of courses that don't provide practice bunkers or a short game area.  

2.  Depends on where your issues are.  Would you advocate for a tour level short game and ball striking that results in lots of penalties or multiple shots to get into short game range?   Players need to assess their skills and see what is costing them the most strokes during a round.   I don't think anyone is advocating for just spending time hitting driver on the range but spending time where improvement is needed.   In some ways I favor quality ball striking and functional short game as I generally won't incur lots of penalties with the short game.  This is kind of where I am with my game;  I'm trying to become a better ball striker so I can take the pressure off my short game.  I'm looking to get GIR up so I don't have to rely on my short game as much.  It isn't about how pretty my swing is, but how effective my swing is.   I previously spent lots of time on the short game because I was incurring to many extra strokes in that aspect of my game.  Now my short game is functional and I am working to improve the quality of my ball striking.    There isn't a single answer;  consider the difference between a players that can barely advance the ball 50 yards, has a massive slice, and has achieved a double bogey before they even get into short game range versus the player that shooting upper 80s or the player that is in the upper 70s.   

3.   You repeat the "You learn to score by scoring" isn't as true as it used to be.  Traditionally people built their knowledge/strategy of how to play golf by playing golf.  This is what you are advocating and it works,  but it is a slow time consuming process.    Like it or not,  the game has evolved and there are spelled out strategies on how to play golf better and it can be accomplished from your sofa and not on the course.   These skills are discipline, mental strength, where should I target my tee shot, where to target my approach shot, how to manage recovery shot, and understanding your shot dispersion (which can best be obtained on a range or launch monitor).  

I agree with you that to play better golf, that you need discipline, mental strength, good course management skills and confidence in how you play shots. There is a role for practice but most of the elements you talk about are in my opinion best honed by playing. I personally believe that the game has not “evolved” as much as you make it out to be. Golf is played on grass, lies are not perfect and frequently not flat. Hitting a shot on the range has some value but lacks the consequences of playing and the ability to deal with the pressure that brings.

I like to play well but my first priority is to enjoy myself. What attracts me to the game is the mental challenge in playing, score though important is secondary. There is a place for focused practice, but the thrill is in the hunt. In my opinion, modern golf has become somewhat one dimensional, creativity and shotmaking has devolved in my opinion. That is why I derive so much enjoyment in playing with historical clubs. The side benefit is that my swing tempo is the best it has ever been and I have a greater variety of shots to choose from. That comes from playing, adapting, developing better course management.

Everyone needs to find their own way. What works for me, may not for you. The reason I play golf is the challenge and camaraderie. To me the range is more like work and quite frankly does not give me the satisfaction that playing does.

[cnosil]

35 minutes ago, Hickory4ever said:

. I personally believe that the game has not “evolved” as much as you make it out to be. Golf is played on grass, lies are not perfect and frequently not flat. Hitting a shot on the range has some value but lacks the consequences of playing and the ability to deal with the pressure that brings.

I In my opinion, modern golf has become somewhat one dimensional, creativity and shotmaking has devolved in my opinion.

To me the range is more like work and quite frankly does not give me the satisfaction that playing does.

I could use the word "changed" instead of "evolved".    yes, golf is played on grass that isn't perfect or flat.  I can practice that on a range.   Range work is about developing skills.   Pressure only comes from competitive play and not casual rounds.  

I understand what you are saying about the game, but creativity and shotmaking don't help you shoot low scores.  When playing for fun do whatever you want,  but if you want to lower the score floor and ceiling for your game you need to be one dimensional and calculated in how the game is played.   

Everyone plays golf for themselves; so do what gives you the most satisfaction.   Part of my personal satisfaction comes from shooting the lowest score I possibly can and I am going to play that one dimensional game you talk about simply because it gives me the best opportunity to do that.  

[Hickory4ever]

Shotmaking and creativity do aid in improving scores. Almost everyone introduced to hickory golf show improvement in their modern game as well. There is no better way that I know of to gain new perspectives on course management and improving tempo.

Personally, I almost doubled my games in the 70’s this year. I had rounds in the 70’s with several different sets of irons including five hickory sets. By the way, it is not only me. We have several people that have done the same. There is more than one way to improve and I would not be dismissive.

Incidentally, my best score of the year was a 74 (2 over) from 5500 yards with a set of Jack Whites from the 1920’s. The yardage would be roughly equivalent to 6200 with modern clubs. My best round with modern clubs was 75 at 6,000 yards. 
 

By the way, i take my game very seriously.

[fixyurdivot]

Like so many of these discussions, we seem to track towards a "there is one correct answer", which of course we know that's not the case.  What works for some may or may not work for others. But I'll bet we can all agree on what I heard on PGA Tour radio this morning; that one should spend 75% practicing the short game, and 25% on the rest".  Certainly we all agree with that ratio... right? 

[cnosil]

30 minutes ago, Hickory4ever said:

Shotmaking and creativity do aid in improving scores. Almost everyone introduced to hickory golf show improvement in their modern game as well. There is no better way that I know of to gain new perspectives on course management and improving tempo.

 

What do you consider shotmaking and creativity?  I personally think people use those terms to justify shaping shots when it isn't necessary, trying shots that they shouldn't be trying when in trouble, or firing at pins all the time.  

Sounds like the hickories are teaching you a better swing which is carrying over to the modern clubs.   

4 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

 But I'll bet we can all agree on what I heard on PGA Tour radio this morning; that one should spend 75% practicing the short game, and 25% on the rest".  Certainly we all agree with that ratio... right? 

Doubtful 

[Hickory4ever]

Shaping shots for no reason is not being creative. The shotmaking skills I am talking about is basically applying the wedge matrix throughout the bag. Learning to confidently hit half and three quarter shots for example with other irons is very useful depending on pin position, wind, etc.. This is particularly in getting back on track when you don’t have your best stuff. Playing with a short set of clubs can help you accomplish the same thing.

I was not suggesting that a person should not practice outside of a round. I am suggesting that battle testing is a very good teacher. I play most of my rounds with several friends that are evenly matched. We all want to win and pride ourselves in being solid grinders even when we don’t have our best. All of us by the way do well in CC competition because we thrive on the pressure of our matches.

One other advantage of being comfortable with controlling swing tempo is it makes it easier to right the ship. 

[GaDawg]

If I were very young and had aspirations of playing professional golf on some level. I would most diffidently spend a lot of time practicing on all phases of the game. Being 63, I do try and keep good rhythm, tempo and timing. I just don't go to the range to wear my clubs out. I am sure some people need or feel like they need to practice.

What I find funny, is 20+ handicap golfers advising single digit golfers on how they should practice or prepare their game.  

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Hickory4ever said:

Shaping shots for no reason is not being creative. The shotmaking skills I am talking about is basically applying the wedge matrix throughout the bag. Learning to confidently hit half and three quarter shots for example with other irons is very useful depending on pin position, wind, etc.. This is particularly in getting back on track when you don’t have your best stuff. Playing with a short set of clubs can help you accomplish the same thing.

I was not suggesting that a person should not practice outside of a round. I am suggesting that battle testing is a very good teacher. I play most of my rounds with several friends that are evenly matched. We all want to win and pride ourselves in being solid grinders even when we don’t have our best. All of us by the way do well in CC competition because we thrive on the pressure of our matches.

One other advantage of being comfortable with controlling swing tempo is it makes it easier to right the ship. 

With that definition of shotmaking then yes,  that will improve your game.  I don't personally consider that shotmaking,  I just consider that hitting the ball a specific distance.   

 

Going back to your original post,  I don't believe that aspect of the game has gone away.  Players are probably hitting more partial shots as the general guidance says hit it as far as possible since approach shots will be closer the closer you are to the hole. Battle testing is important to build the mental aspect,  but course management strategies can easily be learned off the course.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Like so many of these discussions, we seem to track towards a "there is one correct answer", which of course we know that's not the case.  What works for some may or may not work for others. But I'll bet we can all agree on what I heard on PGA Tour radio this morning; that one should spend 75% practicing the short game, and 25% on the rest".  Certainly we all agree with that ratio... right? 

I’ve heard and been told for every hour hitting balls to spend that much time putting and wedge work. 50/50 or even 75/25 is a good idea. Unfortunately go to a range and you will see 100/0 90/10 maybe 85/15.

some courses I play at you see nobody at the chipping green

1 hour ago, Hickory4ever said:

Shaping shots for no reason is not being creative. The shotmaking skills I am talking about is basically applying the wedge matrix throughout the bag. Learning to confidently hit half and three quarter shots for example with other irons is very useful depending on pin position, wind, etc.. This is particularly in getting back on track when you don’t have your best stuff. Playing with a short set of clubs can help you accomplish the same thing.

I was not suggesting that a person should not practice outside of a round. I am suggesting that battle testing is a very good teacher. I play most of my rounds with several friends that are evenly matched. We all want to win and pride ourselves in being solid grinders even when we don’t have our best. All of us by the way do well in CC competition because we thrive on the pressure of our matches.

One other advantage of being comfortable with controlling swing tempo is it makes it easier to right the ship. 

Most people don’t understand the swing and trying to hit some rescue shot, partial wedge or iron shot just isn’t in the cards for them. You will see fat and thin shots because people don’t practice that shot away from the course yet try all kinds of things on the course based on something the announcer on tv said or how they buddies say to do it, with little to no success 

[Kanoito]

I have 2 kids, too. And time is just too valuable for me to spend on the range. Unless there is something I really need fixing or losing too many balls, I'll spend every chance I get on a course. 

[Middler]

19 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve heard and been told for every hour hitting balls to spend that much time putting and wedge work. 50/50 or even 75/25 is a good idea. Unfortunately go to a range and you will see 100/0 90/10 maybe 85/15.

some courses I play at you see nobody at the chipping green

Most people don’t understand the swing and trying to hit some rescue shot, partial wedge or iron shot just isn’t in the cards for them. You will see fat and thin shots because people don’t practice that shot away from the course yet try all kinds of things on the course based on something the announcer on tv said or how they buddies say to do it, with little to no success 

+1. I know several mid to high handicaps who will hit 2 large buckets on the driving range, and spend little or no time practicing chipping or putting. And when they do hit the practice greens, they chip and putt with no purpose at all - much like the driving range where they just wack away reinforcing bad habits. I guess they get more satisfaction out of a well struck full swing shot than the shots around the green, so they choose the driving range. I play with them and they don't hit full shots any better, and still can't chip or putt. Most of my friends are clueless out of sand, and it's not that hard if you've been taught how and practiced a little. The best players I know do spend more time practicing chipping, pitching and sand shots than any other aspect, putting or driving range. I try to mimic the better players and I'm still not that good, but I don't waste shots around the green like most of my mid to high HI playing partners. 

Largely because...

I am the only player among more than 40 regulars, even the better players, who keeps any stats beyond score. When I share my FW%, GIR, # of putts, # of 3 putts, score vs par by hole (on home course), etc. - they look at me like I'm crazy, and a waste of time. Stats off my Garmin S20 and a basic spreadsheet at home give me worlds of hard data I can act on. None of them have any idea what their real tendencies are or where they could gain strokes. I don't push the idea of keeping stats as I know they have ZERO interest - they'd rather mindlessly hit 2 large buckets on the driving range "expecting different results."

[den748]

I use the range more as "exercise" than practice.  I do try some things at times (try to draw it or change trajectory) but I find it hard to really make improvements there alone.  I'd prefer to be on the course and just drop balls at random spots and try to play them.

I did recently find a place where I can use a trackman and I think I will devote like 1-2 hours a week on it. It's much easier to play with my swing and get immediate feedback. 

So in season It is probably 5-1 course time to range time.

[vandyland]

Today was a good example of this. I went to go play a quick 9 and they had closed the course to cover the greens because it will be freezing tonight. Whatever, fine. So I went to the practice range and hit 80% wedges and short irons (about 80 balls) to try to get a better distance feel. Ending up finding something that was really clicking (at least today) and I doubt I would have found that on the course. I have been struggling the last two rounds so this was a good forced range time and I could experiment with a few different things.