Stealth carbon face durability?? (Post PGA show pics from Reddit)

[TBS]

Did anyone else see this on r/golf over the weekend? Here is what the face of the Stealth looked like after the PGA show. Here is a link to the full post with more pics. 

 

 

I know that it took a ton of shots but any markings on the face concern me. There were a number of comments of people who had fittings with them already that were surprised with the number of markings. Is this something to be concerned about? I know carbon fiber can be very strong but I also know that if there is any damage to it, it becomes extremely weak and compromised. 

[pakman92]

That's actually the polyurethane cover (nanotexture cover, TM calls it) over the carbon fiber.  So the 'damage' you see is on the cover and not the carbon fiber itself.  None of the less, if the picture is really showing damage to the cover, that's concerning, because that nanotexture cover is supposed to fine tune the spin and launch characteristics in wet(?) conditions.   It's hard to tell in the picture.    I have to assume TM has done enough testing on the cover material, but who knows.

[GolfSpy_APH]

3 hours ago, TBS said:

Did anyone else see this on r/golf over the weekend? Here is what the face of the Stealth looked like after the PGA show. Here is a link to the full post with more pics. 

 

 

I know that it took a ton of shots but any markings on the face concern me. There were a number of comments of people who had fittings with them already that were surprised with the number of markings. Is this something to be concerned about? I know carbon fiber can be very strong but I also know that if there is any damage to it, it becomes extremely weak and compromised. 

Very interesting. I know metal faces get marks in the mas well, but thats mainly wear of paint. I guess for TM what really matters is their microgrooves they have in the cover (I can recall some of the reviews call the feel a bit soft so these marks aren't too surprising). If these microgrooves make a big impact on launch and spin conditions then yeah I for sure could see this being a question for performance as it's use goes on. Or is this more like a regular driver that gets that discolouration after so many hits? Regardless will be interesting to see follow along with. I may be going in to do a fitting today for a driver and stealth is on my list to hit... I wonder how their demo will look? 

[russtopherb]

7 hours ago, pakman92 said:

 I have to assume TM has done enough testing on the cover material, but who knows.

Agreed. This thing has been in development most likely for years and that face material has seen hundreds of thousands of shots. If marking was a concern leading to failure they would have worked that out long ago. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

They’ve been working on this for 20 years and they along with everyone else put their faces thru thousands of shots.

What I want to see is all the beads that were at the demo day and not just one head. 
 

As of now this isn’t a concern imo

[cnosil]

I’ll have to look at the ones at HQ to see if there is any noticeable damage.  I also reached out to ask Phillip if he  was seeing the same thing.  Wonder which OEM was using stealth drivers; TM wasn’t at the PGA show.  

[cnosil]

Heard back from Phillip and he isn’t seeing any marks; other than sky marks , on the ones in most wanted testing.   He did mention that they do have issues with the fiducials coming off the face. 

[null]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Heard back from Phillip and he isn’t seeing any marks; other than sky marks , on the ones in most wanted testing.   He did mention that they do have issues with the fiducials coming off the face. 

What types of tees are used at the test center?

[cnosil]

8 minutes ago, jlukes said:

What types of tees are used at the test center?

I used epoch since the tees are too high for my liking.   Don’t know if this is the specific brand but these look right; yes they are softer than the epoch tees.   
 

https://www.realfeelgolfmats.com/product/adjustable-practice-mat-tee-combo/

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Wonder which OEM was using stealth drivers; TM wasn’t at the PGA show.

Now that's interesting.  Competitor staff using a scarred ball in an attempt to slow down this years marketing phenom? 

[chisag]

4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Now that's interesting.  Competitor staff using a scarred ball in an attempt to slow down this years marketing phenom? 

 

... One of the "tricks" at the pga show when TM was an exhibitor was finding a shaft company that used their new driver (among others) to showcase their shafts. Since they used a LM for every hitting station, TM could have as much as a 2-3 hour wait to hit their clubs and you could often step right up and hit them at a shaft OEM tent. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

I’ll have to look at the ones at HQ to see if there is any noticeable damage.  I also reached out to ask Phillip if he  was seeing the same thing.  Wonder which OEM was using stealth drivers; TM wasn’t at the PGA show.  

 

4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Now that's interesting.  Competitor staff using a scarred ball in an attempt to slow down this years marketing phenom? 

No it's most likely oneof the shaft companies, llike Fujikura.   The use all the OEM heads int their booths to demo their shafts.    Kind of tough to demo a shaft without a head

As a longtime visitor of the show, it's one of the little secrets, instead of waiting an hour in the TM booth to demo the new line, just go to Fuji, or UST or Graphite Design, they all have them!

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... One of the "tricks" at the pga show when TM was an exhibitor was finding a shaft company that used their new driver (among others) to showcase their shafts. Since they used a LM for every hitting station, TM could have as much as a 2-3 hour wait to hit their clubs and you could often step right up and hit them at a shaft OEM tent. 

LOL!!  Chi!  We must have been typing the same thing at the same time

You know what they say about great minds

 

[Golfspy_CG2]

But back to the original point.  As @RickyBobby_PR and @cnosil have eluded to.   TM has hit I'm sure tens of thousands of shots with this material.  What is a typical player going to hit ove rthe course of the life of a driver.  Several hundred maybe?  I'm confident as well it won't be an issue. 

Also it was a demo day, clubs get treated worse there than a disgruntled O'hara international baggage handler.   Have you ever seen the demo clubs in a bin a Golf Galaxy or PGA Superstore, they have been trough the ringer getting banged around and topped by weekend warriors. 

[Manavs]

I was with the person who took these photos, and have done extensive testing of gears with the stealth.  The face does not pass the fingernail test as defined by the usga.  Tees leave a mark as does your finger.  I have no idea how tm got away with this.  

Side note. Carbon doesn't spin, so the "jelly" face is adding spin to make the carbon usable as a face material.

[mcoz]

1 hour ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

 

No it's most likely oneof the shaft companies, llike Fujikura.   The use all the OEM heads int their booths to demo their shafts.    Kind of tough to demo a shaft without a head

As a longtime visitor of the show, it's one of the little secrets, instead of waiting an hour in the TM booth to demo the new line, just go to Fuji, or UST or Graphite Design, they all have them!

LOL!!  Chi!  We must have been typing the same thing at the same time

You know what they say about great minds

 

FYI, Fujikura wasn't at the show either along with  all of the Big OEMs. They were debuting new product in a new release Launch.  Not sure what high end shaft companies were there. I didn't go this year myself.

 

 

[Manavs]

Graphite Design had some as did the GEARs booth on the etc range 

[TBS]

34 minutes ago, Manavs said:

I was with the person who took these photos, and have done extensive testing of gears with the stealth.  The face does not pass the fingernail test as defined by the usga.  Tees leave a mark as does your finger.  I have no idea how tm got away with this.  

Side note. Carbon doesn't spin, so the "jelly" face is adding spin to make the carbon usable as a face material.

Interesting thought, if true. Anybody else have perspective on this?

[CanadaMike]

Interesting topic! My first thought was I wonder how this will affect the used market of these clubs. So many people buy clubs that are 1-6 years old and if the face is all scratched up they might look at a different model.

[Golfspy_CG2]

2 hours ago, mcoz said:

FYI, Fujikura wasn't at the show either along with  all of the Big OEMs. They were debuting new product in a new release Launch.  Not sure what high end shaft companies were there. I didn't go this year myself.

 

 

Gotcha. Not being there I was just guessing.  Perhaps Graphite Design? I saw @McGolf do an interview with them.  Which was very good by the way.

Jim. Can you tell us whst shaft companies were there. 

[Dweed]

He did mention that they do have issues with the fiducials coming off the face. 

Please help us with less capable golf vocab to understand the above please. Thanks

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, Manavs said:

I was with the person who took these photos, and have done extensive testing of gears with the stealth.  The face does not pass the fingernail test as defined by the usga.  Tees leave a mark as does your finger.  I have no idea how tm got away with this.  

Side note. Carbon doesn't spin, so the "jelly" face is adding spin to make the carbon usable as a face material.

 

At this point,  we don't know how that head was treated prior to the photos.   Looks pretty beat up in ways more than just hitting balls.    Why not post a video showing that the club doesn't pass the fingernail test;  would be interesting to see.   

 

10 minutes ago, Dweed said:

He did mention that they do have issues with the fiducials coming off the face. 

Please help us with less capable golf vocab to understand the above please. Thanks

The stickers put on the face of the clubs to measure club data on GC Quad and Trackman.

[fixyurdivot]

Place me squarely in the skeptic pile to think that TM overlooked a basic conformance/design requirement such as noted above.  But if they did, this will go down as the biggest bust in golf product launch history .

[Manavs]

Correction - YOU don't know how the driver was treated.  I on the other hand, took my fingernail, and left a mark in the face.  It wasn't my head, now was I planning on sharing any of this info at the time I saw the head at the pga show - never mind posting it here on mgs.  I just happened to come across this thread in an email today and thought some of those who weren't there would like to hear some additional data on one person's experience from the actual show.   Take my $0.02 for what it's worth. 

 

I highly recommend everyone who sees one in person check two things - 1) try to put a mark in the face using your fingernail 2) check the seam between the crown and body for uniformity around the edges.  The stealth, and stealth plus (for the 6 heads I've personally seen), have varying degrees of uniformity.  Some places the crown is higher than the body, other times the body is higher.

[cnosil]

15 minutes ago, Manavs said:

Correction - YOU don't know how the driver was treated.  I on the other hand, took my fingernail, and left a mark in the face.  It wasn't my head, now was I planning on sharing any of this info at the time I saw the head at the pga show - never mind posting it here on mgs.  I just happened to come across this thread in an email today and thought some of those who weren't there would like to hear some additional data on one person's experience from the actual show.   Take my $0.02 for what it's worth. 

 

I highly recommend everyone who sees one in person check two things - 1) try to put a mark in the face using your fingernail 2) check the seam between the crown and body for uniformity around the edges.  The stealth, and stealth plus (for the 6 heads I've personally seen), have varying degrees of uniformity.  Some places the crown is higher than the body, other times the body is higher.

It is great that you saw and experienced this.  Why wouldn't you have posted it here?  What booth had this head at the show?  Until I see the fingernail leave a mark or someone that I know shows me a head I will have doubts.   All I have seen is a few photos of a head that looks like it has been abused.  

 

I checked some of the heads at MGS and none of them have marks;  no I didn't try to put a fingernail into the face but I will reach out to them and get them to try tomorrow.    

[Manavs]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

It is great that you saw and experienced this.  Why wouldn't you have posted it here?  What booth had this head at the show?  Until I see the fingernail leave a mark or someone that I know shows me a head I will have doubts.   All I have seen is a few photos of a head that looks like it has been abused.  

 

I checked some of the heads at MGS and none of them have marks;  no I didn't try to put a fingernail into the face but I will reach out to them and get them to try tomorrow.    

As I mentioned earlier, the graphite design booth had some heads, as did the GEARs booth.  The GEARs booth head was the one in the reddit photo.

 

Why wouldn't I post it here? or anywhere for that matter - I'm not the guy to be the messenger on this one.  I simply wanted to add some color from my observations. I don't have the patience to keep up with posts in public forums.  My friend Bill Presse posted the original pic on his fb - i'll post the link below.   This driver was treated the best as it was calibrated for use with GEARs - meaning the driver wasnt just thrown around.   Bag rattle sans headcover, plastic tees are going to be problematic.   The original Japanese Gloire reserve version has a problem with sharpie ink permanently embossing into the face that wouldnt come off even with acetone.  That doesnt seem to be the case with this one. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/bill.presse/posts/7221563874535473

 

[ClarkWGriswoldIII]

I've learned a lesson over the years to not immediately jump into the new thing and to let the new technology prove itself on a widespread basis before jumping in.  I'd certainly trust TM to have done the proper testing and don't question those who are buying, but my nature would guide me to wait and see on something like this.

[RickyBobby_PR]

28 minutes ago, ClarkWGriswoldIII said:

I've learned a lesson over the years to not immediately jump into the new thing and to let the new technology prove itself on a widespread basis before jumping in.  I'd certainly trust TM to have done the proper testing and don't question those who are buying, but my nature would guide me to wait and see on something like this.

It may be new release but TaylorMade has been working on this for 20 years and finalizing it over the last year. 
 

Jailbreak was a 5 year project and everyone jumped all over that. Even praised Callaway for being innovative.

they the jumped all in on the Callaway AI. 
 

Nothing coming to the market is new, it’s all being worked on over the years. 

[nike7227]

9 hours ago, mcoz said:

FYI, Fujikura wasn't at the show either along with  all of the Big OEMs. They were debuting new product in a new release Launch.  Not sure what high end shaft companies were there. I didn't go this year myself.

 

 

Having went to the show, I can tell you that yes new product was available to hit from Taylormade (Stealth line), Cobra (LTDx line) and Callaway (Rogue ST line). But they were located at the Graphite Design, Nippon, Flightscope, Garmin and Trackman booths...Tour Spec Golf was there with all different shafts and heads as well... Plus, the PGA section had Cubs to hit. I was actually able to hit more new product during the show  than the golf stores had in demo product at the time of the show. As a result, I'm only needing to try 1 or 2 more shafts out before pulling the trigger on a Rogue ST. 

The tees used at the show were your standard plastic tees. During the inside part of the show, the driving range was covered in them the 1st 15 yds or so onto the turf since the tees don't stay in place. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by nike7227

[Golfzilla70]

Just my two cents' worth:  i see markings there for sure, but that carbon face will outlast their super-thin titanium faces, over the life of the driver.  And that's primarily because they get right to the very limit on the thin face so a golfer can get that rebound.  But 90% of golfers rarely hit the driver so often that they'll see such a breakdown before they're buying a new driver anyway.

[ClarkWGriswoldIII]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It may be new release but TaylorMade has been working on this for 20 years and finalizing it over the last year. 
 

Jailbreak was a 5 year project and everyone jumped all over that. Even praised Callaway for being innovative.

they the jumped all in on the Callaway AI. 
 

Nothing coming to the market is new, it’s all being worked on over the years. 

Agreed, that's why I said "I'd certainly trust TM to have done the proper testing."  It's just my nature to wait and see on materials changes and let others venture in first.  

Maybe that's why I have a 5 year old driver!