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Stealth carbon face durability?? (Post PGA show pics from Reddit)


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... It is really an old tale that gets dragged out every year, especially during winter when golfers are cooped up and wanting to play. But lets do this one more time:

OEMs do not introduce clubs to replace last years clubs. If a Taylor Made fan wants a new driver every year I am sure TM is happy to oblige them, but they are not expecting the vast majority of Sim2 and Sim driver owners to run out and buy the Stealth driver. Most gains are incremental over the years so if you are playing an Aeroburner I am pretty sure TM thinks the Stealth will be an upgrade and is hyping the he!! out of it to get your attention. Same for the M1, M3 and probably the M5 that may or may not perform as well as the Stealth. But none of the OEMs want their customers to buy a new driver for $579 and be disappointed it does not outperform the driver they just bought last year, unless last years driver is from a different OEM. 

... It really is only forum members that analyze, criticize, fawn over and are extremely interested in every aspect of new clubs. We are nerdy equipment geeks and most people that play golf just don't pay much attention to equipment at all, let alone participate in threads on golf forums about all the new releases. I am very happy with my Sim2 and quite frankly would probably be just as happy had I kept my original Sim but I will hit the Stealth, the Rogue ST and the Cobra LTDx just in case one of them is a better match for my swing. If one of them looks/feels/sounds better than what I am playing I will switch and if one of them performs better in distance or dispersion or both I will switch. Now I don't expect that to happen but I learned going to the PGA Show you don't know unless you try. 

... So much like a Progressive Insurance commercial DON'T turn into your parents and complain about Stealth not being longer or better than last years driver. Just demo one if you are interested and let us know if it was the same, not as good or better for you because that's why we are all here. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You might want to go over to wrx and read some reviews. There’s several who have gained ball speed and distance including one guy who was fit at the kingdom and gained 23 yards of carry. 
 

Not to mention that many of the online reviewers gained club head speed but most if not all of them ignored that fact and don’t have the knowledge to dive into that.

For some new drivers may provide better performance and for others they may not. It’s why people need to test for themselves to see if what’s being marketed is true for them or not 

I have not read many personal reviews.  I know a few people that jumped on the latest greatest bandwagon and have one, one guy was fitted for his.

Gaining clubhead speed can be huge for a lot of people.  It is not for others who will just hit a club more offline now.

As for the guy that picked up 23 yards of carry, at least one of two or three things were going on there.

1. He was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.

If you are properly fit for a driver NO new driver is going to give you 23 more yards of carry.  Carbon doesn't trick CT.  Sure maybe a 4 to 8 yards because your club head speed picked up.  Maybe it lowered his spin to more optimal.  However you see where I am going he was never optimal in his last driver if his spin became more optimal.

I am not doubting that this or the new Mizuno or Cally or Cobra may be a better overall driver for someone.  Maybe one of them has really managed to kick ball speeds in someone's normal miss area therefore overall one of these new ones is better, but increasing carry by 23 yards doesn't happen unless 1,2, or 3 from above happens.  Maybe two of them(3 and 1 or 2 and 3).

Edited by Golferplus1

Clubs in great standing

  • Driver - Callaway Epic Max LS - Rogue White 130 MSI TX
  • 3 Wood - Taylormade 300 Mini 13.5 - UST Mamiya Black 79X
  • 5 Wood - Taylormade Sim Max - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5
  • Irons - Srixon ZX5 5 iron, Srixon ZX7 (6-9)  - Recoil 110 F5
  • Wedges - Cleveland 46, 50*, 54*, & 60* Zipcore mid bounce - Recoil 110 F5
  • Putter -  Mannkrafted MA/66 - UST Frequency Filter, LAB MEZZ.1  - BGT Stability

Clubs in good standing(fighting for one spot)....

  • 7 Wood - Company that shall not be named - UST Mamiya Black 79TX | Util - Callaway Apex X Forged UTIL 21* - AD-DI | Util - Srixon ZXU 18* -  Recoil 110 F5 | Util - Callaway UW 19* - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5

Clubs that need a timeout/replacing

 

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10 minutes ago, Golferplus1 said:

I have not read many personal reviews.  I know a few people that jumped on the latest greatest bandwagon and have one, one guy was fitted for his.

Gaining clubhead speed can be huge for a lot of people.  It is not for others who will just hit a club more offline now.

As for the guy that picked up 23 yards of carry, one of two or three things were going on there.

1. Who was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.

If you are properly fit for a driver NO new driver is going to give you 23 more yards of carry.  Carbon doesn't trick CT.  Sure maybe a 4 to 8 yards because your club head speed picked up.  Maybe it lowered his spin to more optimal.  However you see where I am going he was never optimal in his last driver if his spin became more optimal.

I am not doubting that this or the new Mizuno or Cally or Cobra may be a better overall driver for someone.  Maybe one of them has really managed to kick ball speeds in someone's normal miss area therefore overall one of these new ones is better, but increasing carry by 23 yards doesn't happen unless 1,2, or 3 from above happens.  Maybe two of them.

Best analysis. If someone wants the sexy new driver, go for it. But get fit with an expert, not at a demo day. For fun, Mark Crossfield compared an original Big Bertha to a Stealth.  At one level, comparing a $60 dollar driver to a $600 didn’t gain enough for the value. But for forgiveness and feel, that’s hard to quantify. 
TM and Callie update annually. After Jail Break became Jail Broke in the first year, I’d wait for the second year for the Stealthier model. The collapsed heads were replaced but I don’t want to pay to be r&d 

Titleist TSR 11 degree, HZRDS Red R 44.75 LH

Titleist TSR-1 5/7 Woods LH

Titleist TSR-1 23 Hybrid LH

Titleist T200  7-48 - T350 6 Tensai AMT Red LH

 Titleist SM9 50-54-58 TT AMT Red LH

Scotty Phantom X 7.5 RH

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9 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

I have not read many personal reviews. 

Nor have many others on here, they stick to this forum and YouTube reviewers. Yet claim nobody is seeing gains. 

 

9 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

Gaining clubhead speed can be huge for a lot of people.  It is not for others who will just hit a club more offline now.

Agre and it’s why people should be fit for their clubs. 

 

9 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

As for the guy that picked up 23 yards of carry, at least one of two or three things were going on there.

1. He was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.

Typically agree. He didn’t cover his backstory in the post and I didn’t go digging thru his posts or profile on wrx to see what he had done or not in the past. So while it does seem questionable about his previous fit I’m not going to say one way or the other, but as seen in a previous post here cnosil gained a significant amount of distance with stealth and not being fit so it’s not completely out of the realm.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Nor have many others on here, they stick to this forum and YouTube reviewers. Yet claim nobody is seeing gains. 

 

Agre and it’s why people should be fit for their clubs. 

 

Typically agree. He didn’t cover his backstory in the post and I didn’t go digging thru his posts or profile on wrx to see what he had done or not in the past. So while it does seem questionable about his previous fit I’m not going to say one way or the other, but as seen in a previous post here cnosil gained a significant amount of distance with stealth and not being fit so it’s not completely out of the realm.

I still spend a lot of time on WRX, my username is Driveandputtmachine over there.  If you are so inclined you will see I do spend quite a bit of time over there.

The reason I don't read a ton of reviews from folks is the fact that I have seen over the years people in their honeymoon phase exaggerate their gains with a new club or clubs, I guess it makes them feel better about having shelled out a pile of money for their new stick(s).   Also I have no idea how well they were fit for their previous clubs, most will all say they were fit, but many by an idiot.  A lot of people say they were fit, and actually weren't and this time maybe they were or they lucked into a club or clubs that actually match up well against their swing.

Oh there are people that were fit before and couldn't get a great fit no matter what they tried. Then maybe they lucked into an off the rack fit with a new driver, or actually they were fit this time and are now more optimal. 

I was the first one personally, I had a G400 Max that I loved because of the number of fairways that I hit with it.  It was super forgiving.  NO shaft or face angle tweaking could get it optimal.  I was fit into my current Epic Max LS, and then I tweaked it above and beyond to get it better.  It still isn't optimal, but consistency is more important to me than the occasional long bomb ore even mostly long bombs but with a huge dispersion.  I got my center contact more often with my new setup, my off center are less so now, so the Cally is actually hitting more fairways than the 400 max was(according to Arccos) and I was able to drop my spin by over 600.

Will I try the Mizuno, Cally, TM, and Cobra releases really in depth?  Probably at some point this year, but based on the actual videos I have seen I don't think I will get a ton more out of them.  I have hit the Stealth a few times and the Cally and they Cally seems super stable, and the TM seems like it will lower spin, I took my all-fit adapters and rings into a local store where I know some folks and tried out their demo heads.  I saw an increase of CH speed of roughly 2-3 MPH with the Stealth, but none of the 6 shafts I took or the X flexes they had on hand were as good dispersion wise as my EM LS.  The Cally was more stable than the TM, the ball speed was about the same(I think the average was 1.4 higher than my current EM LS, CH speed about the same, I did not make centered contact as often.  I think Cally has increased ball speed in some of the locations where my misses were occurring vs my current, but my dispersion was down.

Again I had no extra weights with either and I play my heads at roughly 44.5 and a head weight of 208 with a driver for optimal, however I don't see myself gaining more than a couple of yards with either, and based on a 45 minute session with each, neither will be much better dispersion wise for me.  I remember where I was with the EM LS before adding head weight.

 

Clubs in great standing

  • Driver - Callaway Epic Max LS - Rogue White 130 MSI TX
  • 3 Wood - Taylormade 300 Mini 13.5 - UST Mamiya Black 79X
  • 5 Wood - Taylormade Sim Max - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5
  • Irons - Srixon ZX5 5 iron, Srixon ZX7 (6-9)  - Recoil 110 F5
  • Wedges - Cleveland 46, 50*, 54*, & 60* Zipcore mid bounce - Recoil 110 F5
  • Putter -  Mannkrafted MA/66 - UST Frequency Filter, LAB MEZZ.1  - BGT Stability

Clubs in good standing(fighting for one spot)....

  • 7 Wood - Company that shall not be named - UST Mamiya Black 79TX | Util - Callaway Apex X Forged UTIL 21* - AD-DI | Util - Srixon ZXU 18* -  Recoil 110 F5 | Util - Callaway UW 19* - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5

Clubs that need a timeout/replacing

 

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17 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket?  NOT my idea of a good idea. 

I saw between 2 and 4 MPH gain over my TSi3 driver. Exact same shaft, and loft. I am seeing more forgiveness as well. My average distance of drives in a round is up between 5 and 10 yards.

Srixon ZX7 Mk II Irons 5-9

Titleist U505 2 Iron 

PING G430 MAX 5 Wood

Cleveland 3 Wood

2024 Calloway Ai Smoke Triple Diamond Driver with Oban shaft

Odyssey Versa Jailbird 380 Putter

Taylormade 2024 TP5x 

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Twenty Years of marketing bullshit is more like it.... I've hit thousands and thousands of shots with my 2017 M1 and the face is pristine. Not a scratch on it... Sell a company for 2 Billion and all of a sudden the "Twenty Years in the Making" club comes out?? 

"A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ~John Stuart Mill

"All great things are simple, and many can be expressed in single words: Freedom, Justice, Honor, Duty, Mercy, Hope." ~Winston Churchill

Gaming: Woods: Cobra Radspeed XB Driver, 3W, 5W, Cobra KING Forged TEC 4-PW, Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM8 48*/10* F Grind, 54*/12* D Grind, 60*/12* D Grind, Putter: 34" Scotty Cameron Special Select Fastback 1.5 🙂

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11 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

1. He was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.


you forget number 4.  I got a good fitting but it wasn’t the driver/shaft combo the player wanted so they picked what they liked better. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Golferplus1  -  now you know that no one would exaggerate on the yardage gains on a new club.  😁

Driver: :titelist-small: TSI3 - 10*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  5 - PW T150, with Nippon Zelos 7 Reg, 4 iron - U505 with Project X HZRDUS Black Stiff

Wedges: :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 60* Standard Wedge Shafts

Wedge: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 MG3 56* S200 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5        
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1x

 

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On 2/9/2022 at 11:32 AM, Shapotomous said:

Did it leave a permanent indentation in the face or just a mark that buffs out??  

I'm sure it may come back a little as that plastic (polymer) layer is just that, plastic. No way to buff it out. Imagine pushing your fingernail into a ProV1 cover, it will leave a mark, it may subside a little over time but the mark will still be there.

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I went to our local golf shop here in San Diego Friday evening and was just looking around. I walked up to the Stealths as I was mostly checking out the 3 woods which was the only one I would consider. The sales guy came up and said something like, wow, the Stealths........I said nah, not looking at the drivers just the 3 woods.......he said something like, good, our test heads faces are already turning orangish/white with all the hits....I said, I've heard about face issues and seen that the face can scar or indent......he then said yeah, I would not buy one, have you checked out the new Cobra's and Rogues..........

100% honest to GOD story fellas............

There may be some truth to this new Korean firm that bought Taylormade in May of 2021.......

Edited by SMUGamer
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5 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

I went to our local golf shop here in San Diego Friday evening and was just looking around. I walked up to the Stealths as I was mostly checking out the 3 woods which was the only one I would consider. The sales guy came up and said something like, wow, the Stealths........I said nah, not looking at the drivers just the 3 woods.......he said something like, good, our test heads faces are already turning orangish/white with all the hits....I said, I've heard about face issues and seen that the face can scar or indent......he then said yeah, I would not buy one, have you checked out the new Cobra's and Rogues..........

100% honest to GOD story fellas............

There may be some truth to this new Korean firm that bought Taylormade in May of 2021.......

Color doesn't bother me. Wedges, irons, fairways and drivers... So all clubs wear over time and get hit spots where you can see blemishes or wear patterns. That's nothing new to golf. Just like the Mizuno blue wedges... Color wears again nothing new in golf. 

Our local shop was pushing Callaway over TM as they have had less then great experiences with carbon Clubs (not sure which but they carry a lot of Japanese OEM's as well so maybe one of them). 

I sit in this camp - TM had pushed the boundaries in what can be done with club manufacturing. They have stood behind their product saying they won't produce another metal faced driver. I believe that is very telling in their trust for their product. However I will more then likely wait for the second version of the stealth next season before purchasing. Not because I don't trust it, but because I do believe OEM's learn in their first iteration of a new club tech. 

There will be stories of drivers or clubs having issues or imperfections but isn't that normal? Isn't that what a warranty is for? Can't we say very similar things for just about any OEM having the odd Club here or there with a flaw despite tighter manufacturing standards? 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Our local shop was pushing Callaway over TM as they have had less then great experiences with carbon Clubs (not sure which but they carry a lot of Japanese OEM's as well so maybe one of them). 

See this in shops a lot based on what brand is giving freebies to staff or has staff on some kind of deal. Sometimes during the non demo day season demo day reps will work in the stores for that side income and they are going to push that brand.

9 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

I went to our local golf shop here in San Diego Friday evening and was just looking around. I walked up to the Stealths as I was mostly checking out the 3 woods which was the only one I would consider. The sales guy came up and said something like, wow, the Stealths........I said nah, not looking at the drivers just the 3 woods.......he said something like, good, our test heads faces are already turning orangish/white with all the hits....I said, I've heard about face issues and seen that the face can scar or indent......he then said yeah, I would not buy one, have you checked out the new Cobra's and Rogues..........

100% honest to GOD story fellas............

There may be some truth to this new Korean firm that bought Taylormade in May of 2021.......

Did you ask to see the heads or did he show them to you?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

See this in shops a lot based on what brand is giving freebies to staff or has staff on some kind of deal. Sometimes during the non demo day season demo day reps will work in the stores for that side income and they are going to push that brand.

I'm hesitant to go this route as they did still promote Sim2. 

I certainly know it happens and there are incentive based programs for retailers, but it seemed more based off bad previous experience with carbon faced drivers and skepticism for this one. 

I'm waiting for the cobra heads to come in and then will do a better comparison. 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

See this in shops a lot based on what brand is giving freebies to staff or has staff on some kind of deal. Sometimes during the non demo day season demo day reps will work in the stores for that side income and they are going to push that brand.

Did you ask to see the heads or did he show them to you?

Yes, he did. He also said a few more things about the Stealth that I will not repeat until it becomes more widely  known and much less controversial. I buy a lot from this store every year so I have a really good relationship with them and want to keep it that way. 

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7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Color doesn't bother me. Wedges, irons, fairways and drivers... So all clubs wear over time and get hit spots where you can see blemishes or wear patterns. That's nothing new to golf. Just like the Mizuno blue wedges... Color wears again nothing new in golf. 

Our local shop was pushing Callaway over TM as they have had less then great experiences with carbon Clubs (not sure which but they carry a lot of Japanese OEM's as well so maybe one of them). 

I sit in this camp - TM had pushed the boundaries in what can be done with club manufacturing. They have stood behind their product saying they won't produce another metal faced driver. I believe that is very telling in their trust for their product. However I will more then likely wait for the second version of the stealth next season before purchasing. Not because I don't trust it, but because I do believe OEM's learn in their first iteration of a new club tech. 

There will be stories of drivers or clubs having issues or imperfections but isn't that normal? Isn't that what a warranty is for? Can't we say very similar things for just about any OEM having the odd Club here or there with a flaw despite tighter manufacturing standards? 

Based on what I was told from the horse's mouth and what I saw, its not mere discoloration. The issues go beyond that, such as structural/material. IF carbon face continues (big IF), then your strategy to pass on this generation is very wise as it appears they still have work to do. As far as warranties: I don't want to be in a position to change drivers mid-season from a warranty issue. Its much more about getting the best driver at the get-go, so I don't lose my momentum with my boys, which could cost me much more than a Stealth if Im not playing my best from the tee box's. 

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3 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Based on what I was told from the horse's mouth and what I saw, its not mere discoloration. The issues go beyond that, such as structural/material. IF carbon face continues (big IF), then your strategy to pass on this generation is very wise as it appears they still have work to do. As far as warranties: I don't want to be in a position to change drivers mid-season from a warranty issue. Its much more about getting the best driver at the get-go, so I don't lose my momentum with my boys, which could cost me much more than a Stealth if Im not playing my best from the tee box's. 

I still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

As a sum I've heard more positive then negative thing about it and will give credit to TM in theit ability to not put out a massively flawed product. 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

As a sum I've heard more positive then negative thing about it and will give credit to TM in theit ability to not put out a massively flawed product. 

 

... It is obviously a personal preference but I just love the shape of the Stealth head. Just not a fan of the longer front to back heads that just don't look right to my eye at address. Never a problem when hitting good drives but on an off day the head looks unwieldy and one of those mental things about golf that can just get in your head (sorry for the pun 🤪). The Sim2 head looks great but I think the Stealth blacked out where the Sim2 is white looks ever better and I look forward to demoing one. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

As a sum I've heard more positive then negative thing about it and will give credit to TM in theit ability to not put out a massively flawed product. 

Granted it's still a very new release, but one picture online and a bunch of anecdotal "evidence" by folks with no actual proof to back it up means diddly squat in the long run. Could the face be a potential issue down the road? Sure. But right now it just feels like a lot of dumping on TM for introducing something new (and red).

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

 

... And you know this of course, and it has been touched on already but most equipment is 5 years in the pipeline or even longer. It boggles my mind to hear some think TalyorMade (or any OEM) would not only rush a product to market before it is ready, but risk their position as the #1 driver in golf with a new technology they were not absolutely sure would at the very least be equal to the previous years driver but most likely an improvement over previous technology, even if that improvement is minor to non existent for some. My guess is nobody owning a Sim or Sim2 will hit the Stealth and lose yards or dispersion but will gain some of each or find little if any difference, but not perform worse. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... And you know this of course, and it has been touched on already but most equipment is 5 years in the pipeline or even longer. It boggles my mind to hear some think TalyorMade (or any OEM) would not only rush a product to market before it is ready, but risk their position as the #1 driver in golf with a new technology they were not absolutely sure would at the very least be equal to the previous years driver but most likely an improvement over previous technology, even if that improvement is minor to non existent for some. My guess is nobody owning a Sim or Sim2 will hit the Stealth and lose yards or dispersion but will gain some of each or find little if any difference, but not perform worse. 

I am a huge advocate that common sense prevails most of the time, but not all the time. To take the position that just because an OEM is a market leader, they cannot take steps backwards is misguided, at best. 

Case in point of a massive OEM blunder after extensive product testing before releasing to the public (which there are thousands more examples such as Callaway introducing carbon face over 20 years ago then abandoning it):

"New Coke was the informal name given by the Coca-Cola Company to a new formula for its most popular drink, Coca-Cola, released in 1985. It was renamed Coke II in 1990[1] and discontinued in July 2002. 

By 1985, Coca-Cola had been losing market share to diet soft drinks and non-cola beverages for several years. Blind taste tests suggested that consumers preferred the sweeter taste of rival Pepsi, and so the Coca-Cola recipe was reformulated. The American public reacted negatively, and New Coke was considered a major failure.

The company reintroduced the original Coke formula within three months, rebranded "Coca-Cola Classic", resulting in a significant sales boost; this led to speculation that the New Coke formula had been a marketing ploy to stimulate sales of the original Coca-Cola, which the company has denied.[2] The story of New Coke remains influential as a cautionary tale against tampering with a well-established and successful brand." 

This is of particular concern when a Korean Private Equity firm recently purchased TM and is under stress to produce immediate ROI. Not conclusive but of concern until proven otherwise. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

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6 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

I am a huge advocate that common sense prevails most of the time, but not all the time. To take the position that just because an OEM is a market leader, they cannot take steps backwards is misguided, at best. 

Case in point of a massive OEM blunder after extensive product testing before releasing to the public (which there are thousands more examples such as Callaway introducing carbon face over 20 years ago then abandoning it):

"New Coke was the informal name given by the Coca-Cola Company to a new formula for its most popular drink, Coca-Cola, released in 1985. It was renamed Coke II in 1990[1] and discontinued in July 2002. 

By 1985, Coca-Cola had been losing market share to diet soft drinks and non-cola beverages for several years. Blind taste tests suggested that consumers preferred the sweeter taste of rival Pepsi, and so the Coca-Cola recipe was reformulated. The American public reacted negatively, and New Coke was considered a major failure.

The company reintroduced the original Coke formula within three months, rebranded "Coca-Cola Classic", resulting in a significant sales boost; this led to speculation that the New Coke formula had been a marketing ploy to stimulate sales of the original Coca-Cola, which the company has denied.[2] The story of New Coke remains influential as a cautionary tale against tampering with a well-established and successful brand." 

This is of particular concern when a Korean Private Equity firm recently purchased TM and is under stress to produce immediate ROI. Not conclusive but of concern until proven otherwise. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

I don't think anyone can deny there are set backs with just about any company. That is part of the risk in coming out with something new and away from the norm. 

I don't believe that should give us reason to be too concerned here. Also 20 years is a long long time and technology has progressed a long ways since then. So yes I do believe a carbon face from 20 years ago may not have been great, however with where we are at now I can certainly see it working. 

This is not to say that there could not be potential faults here and there (for reference I had my callaway driver basically blow up on me this summer and it has only been used for maybe 2 seasons). 

I think we could go round and round on this topic, but until I see a caved in face or significant damage to a normally used club I'll choose to believe they have a solid product EVEN if I don't intend on making a purchase this year on one. 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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23 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I don't think anyone can deny there are set backs with just about any company. That is part of the risk in coming out with something new and away from the norm. 

I don't believe that should give us reason to be too concerned here. Also 20 years is a long long time and technology has progressed a long ways since then. So yes I do believe a carbon face from 20 years ago may not have been great, however with where we are at now I can certainly see it working. 

This is not to say that there could not be potential faults here and there (for reference I had my callaway driver basically blow up on me this summer and it has only been used for maybe 2 seasons). 

I think we could go round and round on this topic, but until I see a caved in face or significant damage to a normally used club I'll choose to believe they have a solid product EVEN if I don't intend on making a purchase this year on one. 

If there is a problem, I don't suspect the carbon face being the problem. I'm pretty sure Callaway proved that carbon face tech could withstand the beatings 20 years ago, as I haven't heard those heads were caving-in. I may stand corrected but I have not heard of it.

IF there is a problem for TM's new faces, I speculate it will be with the substances/materials applied to their carbon faces, not the carbon itself. Based on what I've seen to date, therein lies the potential vulnerability. 

As others have said, time will tell...........

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Even if the head has hit a lot of shots I would think this is concerning. If I take my 2 rounds a week minimum and at least 12 driver shots per round that is around 1200 shots per year and I would be very annoyed if a $1000 (Australian) driver looked anywhere that bad after only a year. Will be interested to see what these look like on the used market in 12 months.

Taylomde 300 mini

Cleveland halo 3 & 5 woods

Ping i210 4 to G

Ping glide 3 54 & 60

Odyssey 2 ball putter.

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Here is a post from one of the very popular and well known industry guys on the other well known forum. I would post the link but not certain if that is allowed here (posted this after testing hundreds of drives):


"Stealth Plus brought back the ball speeds of the OG SIM.  Only concern I have is the face durability after hitting hundreds of balls with sandy soil.  Pitting might be an issue." 

If this is true for most or all Stealth owners, I cannot think of a bigger debacle for TM. Just my 2 cents. 

Edited by SMUGamer
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5 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Here is a post from one of the very popular and well known industry guys on the other well known forum. I would post the link but not certain if that is allowed here (posted this after testing hundreds of drives):


"Stealth Plus brought back the ball speeds of the OG SIM.  Only concern I have is the face durability after hitting hundreds of balls with sandy soil.  Pitting might be an issue." 

If this is true for most or all Stealth owners, I cannot think of a bigger debacle for TM. Just my 2 cents. 

Pitting “might” be an issue due to hundreds of sandy balls doesn’t feel like a debacle at all. 

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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7 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

Well, as long as its your driver and NOT mine, then we can agree on that. 😂

We understand you are highly skeptical of the face.

You've made many posts about it. We know you don't want or believe in this face/Club. We still have yet to see any true visual of major damage or discoloration. 

Any face is going to show wear if it is being hit by a sandy uncleaned Golfball... More to that why would someone not clean their golf ball before hitting their driver? Whole other conversation. 

I hope that anytime someone mentions a flaw or hiccup with the product/face we aren't going to see a new post here about how bad this could be.

I've gone to several shops and not seen any of the damage, discoloration or flaws which have been suggested so jury is still out. 

It's good to have some level of concern, but given the tour rep this driver has and use it seems as though TM has done a solid job with it overall with a low level of concern.

When I see visually these issues or flaws i will take a step back, but as i mentioned before TM has put a lot of effort and backing into this product and i will choose to believe in their efforts until proven or shown otherwise.

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Any face is going to show wear if it is being hit by a sandy uncleaned Golfball... More to that why would someone not clean their golf ball before hitting their driver? Whole other conversation. 

This just simply is not true. Would you like me to take a picture of my TSi3 that Ive been playing since they came out and share it? It still looks mint. I am not stopping anyone from LOVING Stealth nor could I care less what name is stamped on anyones driver. I have no skin in the game regarding OEM sales. This is a forum to share information, opinions, thoughts, etc. Yet it seems like the MODS here only want one view. Its extremely ODD and kinda cult feeling........

Edited by SMUGamer
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