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Stealth carbon face durability?? (Post PGA show pics from Reddit)


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26 minutes ago, d.lama said:

I did a similar thing to one the other day, barely put any pressure on the face, and it left a mark. How this passed for release and meeting rules is perplexing.

Did it leave a permanent indentation in the face or just a mark that buffs out??  

Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  :ping-small: Ancient Anser or Heppler Fetch (depends on the week);  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

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On 1/30/2022 at 10:42 PM, TBS said:

Did anyone else see this on r/golf over the weekend? Here is what the face of the Stealth looked like after the PGA show. Here is a link to the full post with more pics. 

 

image.png.c41b88ff4a305353b19361a2fa8567bf.png

 

I know that it took a ton of shots but any markings on the face concern me. There were a number of comments of people who had fittings with them already that were surprised with the number of markings. Is this something to be concerned about? I know carbon fiber can be very strong but I also know that if there is any damage to it, it becomes extremely weak and compromised. 

That was on a driver used at the Graphite Design booth for testing of GD shafts. I suspect that the driver hit as many golf balls in one day as an average golfer would hit in a year (maybe even more).

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Driver: Ping G425 Max, 9*, Miyazaki  Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 6S, 44.75" playing length

4-Wood: Titleist TS2, 16.5*, Miyazaki Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 7S, 42.75" playing length

5/7-Wood: Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero set to 20* loft; Tensei Blue 75-S, 41.5" playing length

Hybrids: Exotics EXS Pro (22*), Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 75S

Irons: Exotics EXS220 5-iron and New Level MODB-1 (6-iron through PW), KBS TGI Tour 80 (stiff) shafts

Wedges: New Hogan Equalizer wedges (48* and 56* + Maltby TSW Forged 52-8, all bent 1* weak

Putter: Evnroll ER2, 34”with Gravity Grip

Ball: Snell MTBx

Spoiler

 

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16 hours ago, BeansGuy said:

I have hit mine over 200 times, zero marks so far. Love this driver so far.

I play golf with a guy who has been using a new Stealth driver the last three weeks. He also plays in an indoor simulator league once a week and practices at least once a week. He let me hit a few shots using his Stealth driver last night and it looked absolutely pristine—not a single mark on it.

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Driver: Ping G425 Max, 9*, Miyazaki  Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 6S, 44.75" playing length

4-Wood: Titleist TS2, 16.5*, Miyazaki Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 7S, 42.75" playing length

5/7-Wood: Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero set to 20* loft; Tensei Blue 75-S, 41.5" playing length

Hybrids: Exotics EXS Pro (22*), Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 75S

Irons: Exotics EXS220 5-iron and New Level MODB-1 (6-iron through PW), KBS TGI Tour 80 (stiff) shafts

Wedges: New Hogan Equalizer wedges (48* and 56* + Maltby TSW Forged 52-8, all bent 1* weak

Putter: Evnroll ER2, 34”with Gravity Grip

Ball: Snell MTBx

Spoiler

 

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What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket?  NOT my idea of a good idea. 

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1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket?  NOT my idea of a good idea. 

I agree.  I was intrigued by the Stealth driver and was certainly wanting to hit it, but I saw no increase in overall performance, and a rather disappointing loss of accuracy vs. any driver that I have hit over the last couple of years. I doubt very seriously that I will become an owner of this driver model.

Right now, I have two drivers that I really like:

1.) Sub 70 849 Pro @ 9* loft with a UST Mamiya Proforce V2 Black shaft.

2.) Titleist TSi1 @ 10* loft that I bought as clubhead only because it was a shop demo. I have this one shafted with a brand new Fujikura Ventus Blue TR shaft.

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Driver: Ping G425 Max, 9*, Miyazaki  Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 6S, 44.75" playing length

4-Wood: Titleist TS2, 16.5*, Miyazaki Kuala Mizu Tour Issue 7S, 42.75" playing length

5/7-Wood: Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero set to 20* loft; Tensei Blue 75-S, 41.5" playing length

Hybrids: Exotics EXS Pro (22*), Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 75S

Irons: Exotics EXS220 5-iron and New Level MODB-1 (6-iron through PW), KBS TGI Tour 80 (stiff) shafts

Wedges: New Hogan Equalizer wedges (48* and 56* + Maltby TSW Forged 52-8, all bent 1* weak

Putter: Evnroll ER2, 34”with Gravity Grip

Ball: Snell MTBx

Spoiler

 

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2 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket?  NOT my idea of a good idea. 

As with any club,  it works well for some and not for others.   I saw an additional 6 MPH of ball speed over my current driver and more forgiveness across the face.   Roughly 12-15 more carry yards. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
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2 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket?  NOT my idea of a good idea. 

I think the fuss was initially that it represents a new paradigm in design that may very well move the needle as further refinement of this technology is done.  While the other OEM's may not agree, TM suggests that the limits on refining titanium face drivers to get additional gains has peaked... as in no more meat on the bone.

Then the fuss shifted to a MGS statement that all of their testers saw the highest ball speeds ever.  That wasn't being seen by a handful of other noted YT testers such as Rick Shiels.  This then spilled over into a not so friendly exchange between MGS and Rick.

Just as those embers were going cold, the "marred face" (does it or dosen't it?) discussion ensued.  And yes, there have been just about as many saying little gains as no gains based on what I've seen.  Like so many of these new drivers, those currently playing competing product lines, that are within a few product release cycles in age, aren't likely to see eye popping gains.

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:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

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14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

As with any club,  it works well for some and not for others.   I saw an additional 6 MPH of ball speed over my current driver and more forgiveness across the face.   Roughly 12-15 more carry yards. 

Now that is eye popping 👍.  Looks like the G400 is on notice?

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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7 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Then the fuss shifted to a MGS statement that all of their testers saw the highest ball speeds ever. 

Just to clarify,  it wasn't their testers,  it was the staff that visited TaylorMade.  

4 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Now that is eye popping 👍.  Looks like the G400 is on notice?

It is.   Have a few drivers on the list; based on my most wanted results, that I will go test a little more.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :mizuno-small: T20 54-8  :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

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3 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket?  NOT my idea of a good idea. 

You might want to go over to wrx and read some reviews. There’s several who have gained ball speed and distance including one guy who was fit at the kingdom and gained 23 yards of carry. 
 

Not to mention that many of the online reviewers gained club head speed but most if not all of them ignored that fact and don’t have the knowledge to dive into that.

For some new drivers may provide better performance and for others they may not. It’s why people need to test for themselves to see if what’s being marketed is true for them or not 

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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... It is really an old tale that gets dragged out every year, especially during winter when golfers are cooped up and wanting to play. But lets do this one more time:

OEMs do not introduce clubs to replace last years clubs. If a Taylor Made fan wants a new driver every year I am sure TM is happy to oblige them, but they are not expecting the vast majority of Sim2 and Sim driver owners to run out and buy the Stealth driver. Most gains are incremental over the years so if you are playing an Aeroburner I am pretty sure TM thinks the Stealth will be an upgrade and is hyping the he!! out of it to get your attention. Same for the M1, M3 and probably the M5 that may or may not perform as well as the Stealth. But none of the OEMs want their customers to buy a new driver for $579 and be disappointed it does not outperform the driver they just bought last year, unless last years driver is from a different OEM. 

... It really is only forum members that analyze, criticize, fawn over and are extremely interested in every aspect of new clubs. We are nerdy equipment geeks and most people that play golf just don't pay much attention to equipment at all, let alone participate in threads on golf forums about all the new releases. I am very happy with my Sim2 and quite frankly would probably be just as happy had I kept my original Sim but I will hit the Stealth, the Rogue ST and the Cobra LTDx just in case one of them is a better match for my swing. If one of them looks/feels/sounds better than what I am playing I will switch and if one of them performs better in distance or dispersion or both I will switch. Now I don't expect that to happen but I learned going to the PGA Show you don't know unless you try. 

... So much like a Progressive Insurance commercial DON'T turn into your parents and complain about Stealth not being longer or better than last years driver. Just demo one if you are interested and let us know if it was the same, not as good or better for you because that's why we are all here. 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You might want to go over to wrx and read some reviews. There’s several who have gained ball speed and distance including one guy who was fit at the kingdom and gained 23 yards of carry. 
 

Not to mention that many of the online reviewers gained club head speed but most if not all of them ignored that fact and don’t have the knowledge to dive into that.

For some new drivers may provide better performance and for others they may not. It’s why people need to test for themselves to see if what’s being marketed is true for them or not 

I have not read many personal reviews.  I know a few people that jumped on the latest greatest bandwagon and have one, one guy was fitted for his.

Gaining clubhead speed can be huge for a lot of people.  It is not for others who will just hit a club more offline now.

As for the guy that picked up 23 yards of carry, at least one of two or three things were going on there.

1. He was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.

If you are properly fit for a driver NO new driver is going to give you 23 more yards of carry.  Carbon doesn't trick CT.  Sure maybe a 4 to 8 yards because your club head speed picked up.  Maybe it lowered his spin to more optimal.  However you see where I am going he was never optimal in his last driver if his spin became more optimal.

I am not doubting that this or the new Mizuno or Cally or Cobra may be a better overall driver for someone.  Maybe one of them has really managed to kick ball speeds in someone's normal miss area therefore overall one of these new ones is better, but increasing carry by 23 yards doesn't happen unless 1,2, or 3 from above happens.  Maybe two of them(3 and 1 or 2 and 3).

Edited by Golferplus1
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  • Driver - Callaway Epic Max LS - Rogue White 130 MSI TX
  • 3 Wood - Taylormade 300 Mini 13.5 - UST Mamiya Black 79X
  • 5 Wood - Taylormade Sim Max - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5
  • Irons - Srixon ZX5 5 iron, Srixon ZX7 (6-9)  - Recoil 110 F5
  • Wedges - Cleveland 46, 50*, 54*, & 60* Zipcore mid bounce - Recoil 110 F5
  • Putter -  Mannkrafted MA/66 - UST Frequency Filter, LAB MEZZ.1  - BGT Stability

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  • 7 Wood - Company that shall not be named - UST Mamiya Black 79TX | Util - Callaway Apex X Forged UTIL 21* - AD-DI | Util - Srixon ZXU 18* -  Recoil 110 F5 | Util - Callaway UW 19* - HZRDOUS smoke black 6.5

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10 minutes ago, Golferplus1 said:

I have not read many personal reviews.  I know a few people that jumped on the latest greatest bandwagon and have one, one guy was fitted for his.

Gaining clubhead speed can be huge for a lot of people.  It is not for others who will just hit a club more offline now.

As for the guy that picked up 23 yards of carry, one of two or three things were going on there.

1. Who was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.

If you are properly fit for a driver NO new driver is going to give you 23 more yards of carry.  Carbon doesn't trick CT.  Sure maybe a 4 to 8 yards because your club head speed picked up.  Maybe it lowered his spin to more optimal.  However you see where I am going he was never optimal in his last driver if his spin became more optimal.

I am not doubting that this or the new Mizuno or Cally or Cobra may be a better overall driver for someone.  Maybe one of them has really managed to kick ball speeds in someone's normal miss area therefore overall one of these new ones is better, but increasing carry by 23 yards doesn't happen unless 1,2, or 3 from above happens.  Maybe two of them.

Best analysis. If someone wants the sexy new driver, go for it. But get fit with an expert, not at a demo day. For fun, Mark Crossfield compared an original Big Bertha to a Stealth.  At one level, comparing a $60 dollar driver to a $600 didn’t gain enough for the value. But for forgiveness and feel, that’s hard to quantify. 
TM and Callie update annually. After Jail Break became Jail Broke in the first year, I’d wait for the second year for the Stealthier model. The collapsed heads were replaced but I don’t want to pay to be r&d 

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9 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

I have not read many personal reviews. 

Nor have many others on here, they stick to this forum and YouTube reviewers. Yet claim nobody is seeing gains. 

 

9 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

Gaining clubhead speed can be huge for a lot of people.  It is not for others who will just hit a club more offline now.

Agre and it’s why people should be fit for their clubs. 

 

9 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

As for the guy that picked up 23 yards of carry, at least one of two or three things were going on there.

1. He was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.

Typically agree. He didn’t cover his backstory in the post and I didn’t go digging thru his posts or profile on wrx to see what he had done or not in the past. So while it does seem questionable about his previous fit I’m not going to say one way or the other, but as seen in a previous post here cnosil gained a significant amount of distance with stealth and not being fit so it’s not completely out of the realm.

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Nor have many others on here, they stick to this forum and YouTube reviewers. Yet claim nobody is seeing gains. 

 

Agre and it’s why people should be fit for their clubs. 

 

Typically agree. He didn’t cover his backstory in the post and I didn’t go digging thru his posts or profile on wrx to see what he had done or not in the past. So while it does seem questionable about his previous fit I’m not going to say one way or the other, but as seen in a previous post here cnosil gained a significant amount of distance with stealth and not being fit so it’s not completely out of the realm.

I still spend a lot of time on WRX, my username is Driveandputtmachine over there.  If you are so inclined you will see I do spend quite a bit of time over there.

The reason I don't read a ton of reviews from folks is the fact that I have seen over the years people in their honeymoon phase exaggerate their gains with a new club or clubs, I guess it makes them feel better about having shelled out a pile of money for their new stick(s).   Also I have no idea how well they were fit for their previous clubs, most will all say they were fit, but many by an idiot.  A lot of people say they were fit, and actually weren't and this time maybe they were or they lucked into a club or clubs that actually match up well against their swing.

Oh there are people that were fit before and couldn't get a great fit no matter what they tried. Then maybe they lucked into an off the rack fit with a new driver, or actually they were fit this time and are now more optimal. 

I was the first one personally, I had a G400 Max that I loved because of the number of fairways that I hit with it.  It was super forgiving.  NO shaft or face angle tweaking could get it optimal.  I was fit into my current Epic Max LS, and then I tweaked it above and beyond to get it better.  It still isn't optimal, but consistency is more important to me than the occasional long bomb ore even mostly long bombs but with a huge dispersion.  I got my center contact more often with my new setup, my off center are less so now, so the Cally is actually hitting more fairways than the 400 max was(according to Arccos) and I was able to drop my spin by over 600.

Will I try the Mizuno, Cally, TM, and Cobra releases really in depth?  Probably at some point this year, but based on the actual videos I have seen I don't think I will get a ton more out of them.  I have hit the Stealth a few times and the Cally and they Cally seems super stable, and the TM seems like it will lower spin, I took my all-fit adapters and rings into a local store where I know some folks and tried out their demo heads.  I saw an increase of CH speed of roughly 2-3 MPH with the Stealth, but none of the 6 shafts I took or the X flexes they had on hand were as good dispersion wise as my EM LS.  The Cally was more stable than the TM, the ball speed was about the same(I think the average was 1.4 higher than my current EM LS, CH speed about the same, I did not make centered contact as often.  I think Cally has increased ball speed in some of the locations where my misses were occurring vs my current, but my dispersion was down.

Again I had no extra weights with either and I play my heads at roughly 44.5 and a head weight of 208 with a driver for optimal, however I don't see myself gaining more than a couple of yards with either, and based on a 45 minute session with each, neither will be much better dispersion wise for me.  I remember where I was with the EM LS before adding head weight.

 

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  • Irons - Srixon ZX5 5 iron, Srixon ZX7 (6-9)  - Recoil 110 F5
  • Wedges - Cleveland 46, 50*, 54*, & 60* Zipcore mid bounce - Recoil 110 F5
  • Putter -  Mannkrafted MA/66 - UST Frequency Filter, LAB MEZZ.1  - BGT Stability

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17 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is with this new driver. I watched a few video reviews on this driver and it did NOT show any signs of "Increased" ball speed nor a distance gain over the last model. So why all the hype? NO Gain, just MORE money out of your pocket?  NOT my idea of a good idea. 

I saw between 2 and 4 MPH gain over my TSi3 driver. Exact same shaft, and loft. I am seeing more forgiveness as well. My average distance of drives in a round is up between 5 and 10 yards.

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Twenty Years of marketing bullshit is more like it.... I've hit thousands and thousands of shots with my 2017 M1 and the face is pristine. Not a scratch on it... Sell a company for 2 Billion and all of a sudden the "Twenty Years in the Making" club comes out?? 

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11 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

1. He was not fitted for his last driver.

2. If he was fitted, he was fit by a moron.

3. He didn't hit a single of his drives with his old driver anywhere near the Sweet spot.


you forget number 4.  I got a good fitting but it wasn’t the driver/shaft combo the player wanted so they picked what they liked better. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :mizuno-small: T20 54-8  :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Golferplus1  -  now you know that no one would exaggerate on the yardage gains on a new club.  😁

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Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  7 - PW T100S, 4 -6 T200 all with Nippon NS Pro 880 AMC Chrome Stiff 

Irons: :cobra-small: 4 - PW King Forged Tec with Aerotech Steelfiber I95 Stiff

Wedges:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 56*, 60*  Standard Wedge Shafts   

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5           
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 or Maxfli Tour

 

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On 2/9/2022 at 11:32 AM, Shapotomous said:

Did it leave a permanent indentation in the face or just a mark that buffs out??  

I'm sure it may come back a little as that plastic (polymer) layer is just that, plastic. No way to buff it out. Imagine pushing your fingernail into a ProV1 cover, it will leave a mark, it may subside a little over time but the mark will still be there.

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