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Is Phil Mickelson Golf's Version of Gordon Gekko?


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35 minutes ago, LICC said:

Agree. The worst is not his criticism of the PGA Tour, but the comments that came out from Shipnuck about knowing how horrible are the Saudis but still being ok taking the money.

His statement yesterday just made things worse. This is not about golf needing change. This is about Phil selling out to make even more money.

Phil always tries to play things like he's the smartest guy in the room. 100% backfired on him here.

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1 minute ago, russtopherb said:

Phil always tries to play things like he's the smartest guy in the room. 100% backfired on him here.

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18 minutes ago, LICC said:

Agree. The worst is not his criticism of the PGA Tour, but the comments that came out from Shipnuck about knowing how horrible are the Saudis but still being ok taking the money.

His statement yesterday just made things worse. This is not about golf needing change. This is about Phil selling out to make even more money.

Well, to be fair, Phil does believe that the PGA's revenue stream is unfair to the players.  I can't say for certain that his continued pokes at Jay Monahan et.al. are the catalyst for Jay's announcement to the players yesterday, at the mandatory meeting (Honda Classic), that more money is heading their way, but one could argue the case.  Heck, even Chamblee stated last night that HUGE increases are heading to tour golfers - though that may be more the influence of gambling related revenue?

Make no mistake that I dislike the manner in which Phil has gone about this.  I mean aside from Tiger, I suspect he's made more money having been part of the PGA than anyone else... and by a wide margin.  Perhaps Norman's WT venue was just a handy tool for leverage but the way he's gone about using it is simply a scorched earth tactic. Maybe he is also dealing with some unknown personal challenges that contributed to his chosen path?  Pat Perez's comments certainly suggested there may be something going on in his personal life.

Anyway, at this point in the saga, I'm still hopeful Phil finds his way through this and comes out a better person for it.

 

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33 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, to be fair, Phil does believe that the PGA's revenue stream is unfair to the players.  I can't say for certain that his continued pokes at Jay Monahan et.al. are the catalyst for Jay's announcement to the players yesterday, at the mandatory meeting (Honda Classic), that more money is heading their way, but one could argue the case.  Heck, even Chamblee stated last night that HUGE increases are heading to tour golfers - though that may be more the influence of gambling related revenue?

Make no mistake that I dislike the manner in which Phil has gone about this.  I mean aside from Tiger, I suspect he's made more money having been part of the PGA than anyone else... and by a wide margin.  Perhaps Norman's WT venue was just a handy tool for leverage but the way he's gone about using it is simply a scorched earth tactic. Maybe he is also dealing with some unknown personal challenges that contributed to his chosen path?  Pat Perez's comments certainly suggested there may be something going on in his personal life.

Anyway, at this point in the saga, I'm still hopeful Phil finds his way through this and comes out a better person for it.

 

Agree with this take.  I've always been a huge Phil fan.  Loved the "Go For Broke" style, even when it sometimes backfired.  I disagree with the "He's a fake..." opinions.  I saw him genuinely interact with my son (any many other people, young and old) in person at the Tour Championship several years ago and it cemented what I had hoped was true about Phil.

My opinion on this deal is that he was trying to use Norman and the SGL as leverage to gain concessions from the PGA Tour which would have benefitted him, but also all of the other players.  Of course it's about money; it always is about money at some level.  He shouldn't have confided in Shipnuck.  Not because Alan is a bad guy in this, but because Phil should have played his cards WAY closer to his vest.  It'll tarnish Phil a bit for a while, may cost him a chance to be a Ryder Cup Captain, which would be a shame, but ultimately it won't be much of a story in a year or two.  Tiger has crawled out from under some pretty shady stuff, Phil will too.

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11 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Agree with this take.  I've always been a huge Phil fan.  Loved the "Go For Broke" style, even when it sometimes backfired.  I disagree with the "He's a fake..." opinions.  I saw him genuinely interact with my son (any many other people, young and old) in person at the Tour Championship several years ago and it cemented what I had hoped was true about Phil.

It's great that Phil was awesome with your son, gives him a nice memory to have. But doesn't change the fact that his "fake" persona has been called out for years and this whole debacle just cements it even more. Great golfer, certainly a personality, but he's really showed his true colors here. Who a person is when he's not directly in front of the public often tends to be a more realistic version of them. And we're seeing that here. 

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Well that was quite an 'apology' he made. It's interesting that he plans to step away a while to get his life back in order. Mote it sisn't take long for KPMG to drop him. 

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11 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

It's great that Phil was awesome with your son, gives him a nice memory to have. But doesn't change the fact that his "fake" persona has been called out for years and this whole debacle just cements it even more. Great golfer, certainly a personality, but he's really showed his true colors here. Who a person is when he's not directly in front of the public often tends to be a more realistic version of them. And we're seeing that here. 

True but we've seen that with other big name golfers and many, many other public personalities.  Not making excuses for Phil but there does seem to be different standards used in the court of public opinion.  Their people who, like all of us, have flaws and make poor choices.

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41 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Agree with this take.  I've always been a huge Phil fan.  Loved the "Go For Broke" style, even when it sometimes backfired.  I disagree with the "He's a fake..." opinions.  I saw him genuinely interact with my son (any many other people, young and old) in person at the Tour Championship several years ago and it cemented what I had hoped was true about Phil.

My opinion on this deal is that he was trying to use Norman and the SGL as leverage to gain concessions from the PGA Tour which would have benefitted him, but also all of the other players.  Of course it's about money; it always is about money at some level.  He shouldn't have confided in Shipnuck.  Not because Alan is a bad guy in this, but because Phil should have played his cards WAY closer to his vest.  It'll tarnish Phil a bit for a while, may cost him a chance to be a Ryder Cup Captain, which would be a shame, but ultimately it won't be much of a story in a year or two.  Tiger has crawled out from under some pretty shady stuff, Phil will too.

I see how the changes he wants would benefit him and a handful of other players, but not all the other players. The things he wants, like shared media rights, would probably hurt the majority of the players.

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46 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

It's great that Phil was awesome with your son, gives him a nice memory to have. But doesn't change the fact that his "fake" persona has been called out for years and this whole debacle just cements it even more. Great golfer, certainly a personality, but he's really showed his true colors here. Who a person is when he's not directly in front of the public often tends to be a more realistic version of them. And we're seeing that here. 

+100, lots of people are great actors. “Sincerity is the key to success. Once you can fake that you’ve got it made.” Groucho Marx

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 I don't think this has been about money other than money being a way to keep score.  I think Norman and Mickelson are interested in power and the golf world is the place they think they can wield it. 

 

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I guess Phil will be a little busy with the time he's taken off from the tour to "reflect" on his PGA Tour and Saudi comments.   This week he was dumped by KPMG, Amstel and Workday.   Then late today Callaway "paused" their relationship with Mickelson (no longer paying him).  

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On 2/5/2022 at 9:38 AM, Middler said:

+1. He’s played the PR game well all along.

I think he has played pretty good golf during his career.

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Damn if he isn’t getting his teeth kicked in sponsor-wise this week.  Callaway and the American Express now giving him the boot too.  Not saying he didn’t have it coming though…

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Phil really did stick his foot in his mouth and came across extremely poor with his comments about the money given the country that is financing it.  

With some of the discussion points coming out about the PGA Tour I've heard some things I never knew and it has me searching for more info...Like....

How are the pro's independent contractors but there is a pension plan for them and how is it legal for the tour to ban them from playing on another tour...that sounds 'exclusive' and more 'employee' than 'independent contractor'.   

How is the PGA Tour a non-profit with all the sponsorship money, TV money, ticket sales, merchandise sales, etc. resulting in about a $70M annual net income and $1.2 Billion in assets.

Phil mentioned the requirement to pay the PGA tour a licensing fee for televising an exhibition match which was not put on by the PGA Tour.  I can't believe that would be true or wouldn't the PGA, US Open and Masters also have to pay that TV licensing fee as well?

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12 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

Phil really did stick his foot in his mouth and came across extremely poor with his comments about the money given the country that is financing it.  

With some of the discussion points coming out about the PGA Tour I've heard some things I never knew and it has me searching for more info...Like....

How are the pro's independent contractors but there is a pension plan for them and how is it legal for the tour to ban them from playing on another tour...that sounds 'exclusive' and more 'employee' than 'independent contractor'.   

How is the PGA Tour a non-profit with all the sponsorship money, TV money, ticket sales, merchandise sales, etc. resulting in about a $70M annual net income and $1.2 Billion in assets.

Phil mentioned the requirement to pay the PGA tour a licensing fee for televising an exhibition match which was not put on by the PGA Tour.  I can't believe that would be true or wouldn't the PGA, US Open and Masters also have to pay that TV licensing fee as well?

Yes, those statements raised the same questions for me as well 🤔. As with so many things in the world of big business, consistency and easy explanations are the exception to the rule.  Phil may very well end up being remembered most as the star witness for Norman/LIV efforts to break-up the PGA.

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19 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

Phil really did stick his foot in his mouth and came across extremely poor with his comments about the money given the country that is financing it.  

With some of the discussion points coming out about the PGA Tour I've heard some things I never knew and it has me searching for more info...Like....

How are the pro's independent contractors but there is a pension plan for them and how is it legal for the tour to ban them from playing on another tour...that sounds 'exclusive' and more 'employee' than 'independent contractor'.   

How is the PGA Tour a non-profit with all the sponsorship money, TV money, ticket sales, merchandise sales, etc. resulting in about a $70M annual net income and $1.2 Billion in assets.

Phil mentioned the requirement to pay the PGA tour a licensing fee for televising an exhibition match which was not put on by the PGA Tour.  I can't believe that would be true or wouldn't the PGA, US Open and Masters also have to pay that TV licensing fee as well?

The Tour is an "association", and th2 players choose to become members.  That choice gives them certain privileges, and requires certain things from them.  You can read some stuff about the rights and responsibilities of each side here:

https://qualifying.pgatourhq.com/static-assets/uploads/2019-2020-pga-tour-handbook--regs-09_10_19.pdf

In my mind, the players ARE independent contractors, up until the point where they decide to become members of the PGA Tour.  Up until that point, they can play in any event they want, go anywhere in the world, produce and market their own media, all of that.  Of course, if they want to play a PGA Tour event, they may have to go through Monday qualifying.  If they want to play the US Open, and they're not on one of the pre-qualified lists, they have to start the qualifying process at square one.  And I wouldn't bet that these independent contractors are going to be playing for big prize money, at least until the Saudi tour really does get going.  So players have voluntarily decided to become PGA Tour members, and give up some of those freedoms in return for inclusion in the very lucrative PGA Tour competitions.  The tour has seemingly made choices that will benefit the majority of players, the Daniel Bergers and Charlie Howells, rather than the small minority that form the top 10, or that are famous because they were once in the top 10.  

 

 

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On 2/3/2022 at 4:55 PM, jlukes said:

Phil has always been out for himself. He’s a politician that always leaned into his phony “man of the people” vibe. 
 

FIGJAM is finally exposing himself for what he’s always been 

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One thing that was pointed out at the start of this thread. You can not compare the earnings of people like Palmer and Nicklaus across the board to Phil and Tiger. To properly do so you have to add in the rate for inflation.

Me personally I am not into politics. Now I do vote for our leaders But in the golf world I do not hate on a player because of his equipment or other sponsors. I do not explore enough to point out or even think about things like the mentioned "Dirty Nike money" I mean I know it is fact but I do not think about it. 

Now I like watching Phil play "Army Golf" right left and getting out of trouble and somehow pulling it off. Now personally I do not approve of what is going on now with him. I have heard what he said and I think personally he may have mental problems for what ever reasons. But I think in his position with all the sponsors etc he should have kept his mouth shut. In this case I think he may have put his mouth in gear before engaging his brain. I just selfishly hate that now we may not be able to watch him play as much like I said he is exciting to watch for me

And Rev and MPR are going to love this--- This comes from me who these days has to constantly ask the Lord to put his arm around my shoulder and his hand over my mouth. Yeah I have stepped off in it quite a bit in the past and put my foot in my mouth. Now days since my accident and getting older I have gotten worse. I have had to pray that 3 or 4 times a day every day. My wife says in all seriousness I did hit my head harder than the Docs think----- And yes on this last paragraph I am not being funny in any way I am being as serious as a heart attack. 

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I'll bet the long term $$ impact from sponsors for Phil will be greater than any $$ earned from the new Saudi league. 

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19 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I'll bet the long term $$ impact from sponsors for Phil will be greater than any $$ earned from the new Saudi league. 

Maybe, but Emirates Airlines could soon be adorning his polo shirt sleeves and LIV replacing KPMG on his hats, so that should help a little.

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On 2/3/2022 at 4:55 PM, jlukes said:

Phil has always been out for himself. He’s a politician that always leaned into his phony “man of the people” vibe. 
 

FIGJAM is finally exposing himself for what he’s always been 

Fake politician is the most accurate take I've heard in a while.  

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7 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Maybe, but Emirates Airlines could soon be adorning his polo shirt sleeves and LIV replacing KPMG on his hats, so that should help a little.

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Maybe - but after he was quoted calling them bad MF'ers who kill homosexuals and executed Jamal Khashoggi, I would imagine they don't like him nearly as much as they did a few weeks ago. 

 

Big question is if PXG has the same bonus structure for the Champions tour ($1 mil if you win with the driver...) because Phil would love to chase that money and it would be true irony for Phil and Bob Parson to become friends. 

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FWIW, I don't think Phil loses his "lifetime" contract with Callaway over this. They have so much tied into him that I think they'll take this "pause" and wait for things to calm down. We won't be seeing him in any ads for quite some time, however Callaway has sunk so much into him over the years that I don't think they'll walk away entirely. I could be very off with this, but when you have a relationship that's got so much history with someone who's tied into the brand as much as Phil is, it's tough to sever that relationship.

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1 hour ago, jlukes said:

Nope. It’s a name hes earned. His fellow golfers and members of the media refer to him by that title as well

Oh yeah I know the story-- I was yanking your chain some you know I am like that🤣

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2 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I'll bet the long term $$ impact from sponsors for Phil will be greater than any $$ earned from the new Saudi league. 

Yep I was thinking the exact same thing

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, TBS said:

Maybe - but after he was quoted calling them bad MF'ers who kill homosexuals and executed Jamal Khashoggi. I would imagine they don't like him nearly as much as they did a few weeks ago. 

 

Big question is if PXG has the same bonus structure for the Champions tour ($1 mil if you win with the driver...) because it would be true irony for Phil and Bob Parson to become friends next. 

I do not think that will happen due to Mr Parsons being an ex Marine

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

FWIW, I don't think Phil loses his "lifetime" contract with Callaway over this. They have so much tied into him that I think they'll take this "pause" and wait for things to calm down. We won't be seeing him in any ads for quite some time, however Callaway has sunk so much into him over the years that I don't think they'll walk away entirely. I could be very off with this, but when you have a relationship that's got so much history with someone who's tied into the brand as much as Phil is, it's tough to sever that relationship.

Just depends on the "morals clause" if there is one in the contract--- IMHO Callaway has maybe taken the "pause in the relationship" to reflect on the legal ramifications on nixing the contract. Then again I may be totally in left field past the parking lot on that. I know some people have gotten totally stupid on the subject of Callaway and Phil. Have seen some on FB saying they will never buy or play Cally equipment again because of Phil. IMHO that reason is totally silly and child like

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Callaway is in a bind. I don't think they want to lose Phil, but with the other sponsors breaking away, if they don't do something they risk looking like they're supporting the Saudis by being the outlier. "Pause", rather than "break", lets them see how the PR develops. 

(Edit for grammar.)

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Social media and the court of public opinion, at times, has some not so nice parallels with Salem, MA in 1692 😐 .

Phil hasn't committed crimes against humanity but rather made some poor decisions and comments in his attempt to change PGA policies he does not agree with. NFL, MLB, and NBA players have unions to battle for policy changes they wish to see.  Based on what I understand of how the PGA players operate under the PGA, they are somewhat on their own to enact changes (i.e. Hoffman's latest issue on rules). I'd be very surprised if no other PGA players agree with what Phil is trying to get changed.  I'd be surprised that he's not had these discussions with fellow players leading up to the mess. Of course, at this point, none would likely state as such simply because of the toxic situation; but I suspect a number of them support the idea.

Throwing this out as for perspective... which often gets lost in the social media feeding frenzy.

 

 

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