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Driver/3 Wood Swing


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Hey everyone,

Are there major differences in a driver swing vs 3 Wood Swing?

I hit my 3 Wood with a slight draw and get about a 250-265 carry, consistently. When ever I have tried to put a driver in the bag I just can't get any consistency.

Just wanted to get some input, because in my head I should be able to translate my 3 Wood Swing into a driver swing but my inability to do so has kept a driver put of my bag. Thanks again to everyone in the community!

 

  • Ping G10 3 Wood, 15.5°
  • Cobra Baffler, 3 hybrid 
  • Mizuno MP-67, 3-PW
  • Ping Glide Forged Pro, 52° & 56°
  • Evnroll, ER2

 

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3w swing should be hitting the ball level to slightly down, whereas with driver you want to be hitting the ball on the upswing. If you're potentially steep into the ball, the 3w will still get the ball out there decently but the driver will most likely not work. There could be other reasons the driver isn't working but that's often the culprit when folks can hit 3w but not driver - I know that was the case for me.

  • Like 2

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:wilson_staff_small:  D7 
:cleveland-small: Hy-Wood
:wilson_staff_small: D200 5i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: #10
 

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Yes. One is on a tee and one is on the ground to start with. Proper body tilts and ball placement will be different as will swing planes.

Most driver swings will have a neutral positive angle of attack where a fairway wood like a hybrid like and iron is going to typically have a neutral to negative angle of attack. This doesn’t mean that one can’t have a successful driver swing with a negative angle of attack. There are professional golfers who hit the ball along way using a slight negative angle of attack.

You need to look at your driver swing and see what’s happening that causes you to not have any consistency.

What is your miss with the driver?

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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My misses with driver tend to be really low pulls or really low pushes with the occasional hook mixed in. 

(I'd consider really low as low or lower then my 3 iron)

I probably need to take a look at some swings of players who have worked out how to successfully hit with a slight negative angle of attack. Try and understand the mechanics and get a lesson or two to implement that. 

  • Ping G10 3 Wood, 15.5°
  • Cobra Baffler, 3 hybrid 
  • Mizuno MP-67, 3-PW
  • Ping Glide Forged Pro, 52° & 56°
  • Evnroll, ER2

 

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16 minutes ago, BK_Strozier said:

My misses with driver tend to be really low pulls or really low pushes with the occasional hook mixed in. 

(I'd consider really low as low or lower then my 3 iron)

I probably need to take a look at some swings of players who have worked out how to successfully hit with a slight negative angle of attack. Try and understand the mechanics and get a lesson or two to implement that. 

Getting a lesson to work on mechanics of hitting with a slight negative aoa might not be the right thing for you. Pros who tend to do that do it for control. Letting a pro evaluate your swing and communicating with him about what your golf course goal is then working on a plan to get you there would be is imo a smarter approach to getting lessons. A good pro is going to ask you what your miss is, what your approach to the game is, how you play, what type of courses, what’s your goal. 

Nuetral to slightly up is going to be optimal. 
 

you have a two way miss and being that you are hitting low to both sides you are probably making contact low on the face with a swing that is getting stuck on the inside. I’m guessing maybe even dipping the trail shoulder to shallow the club.

 

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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27 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Getting a lesson to work on mechanics of hitting with a slight negative aoa might not be the right thing for you. Pros who tend to do that do it for control. Letting a pro evaluate your swing and communicating with him about what your golf course goal is then working on a plan to get you there would be is imo a smarter approach to getting lessons. A good pro is going to ask you what your miss is, what your approach to the game is, how you play, what type of courses, what’s your goal. 

Nuetral to slightly up is going to be optimal. 
 

you have a two way miss and being that you are hitting low to both sides you are probably making contact low on the face with a swing that is getting stuck on the inside. I’m guessing maybe even dipping the trail shoulder to shallow the club.

 

Looks like I a need to get a lesson, I've never had one and probably why I haven't ever figured out how to get that neutral to slight upward angle. I pulled the driver from my bag back in high school and just never tried to learn how to hit it. But If I wanna reach my goals for this next year and get a handicap of 5 or lower I probably need to learn how to swing a driver 😂.

I got a putter fitting at evnroll this last year and that basically turned into a putting lesson and since then my putting has improved dramatically. 

  • Step 1: is probably to get a decent used driver.
  • Step 2: is to get a lesson.
  • Step 3: is to practice 
  • Like 1
  • Ping G10 3 Wood, 15.5°
  • Cobra Baffler, 3 hybrid 
  • Mizuno MP-67, 3-PW
  • Ping Glide Forged Pro, 52° & 56°
  • Evnroll, ER2

 

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1 hour ago, BK_Strozier said:

Looks like I a need to get a lesson, I've never had one and probably why I haven't ever figured out how to get that neutral to slight upward angle. I pulled the driver from my bag back in high school and just never tried to learn how to hit it. But If I wanna reach my goals for this next year and get a handicap of 5 or lower I probably need to learn how to swing a driver 😂.

I got a putter fitting at evnroll this last year and that basically turned into a putting lesson and since then my putting has improved dramatically. 

  • Step 1: is probably to get a decent used driver.
  • Step 2: is to get a lesson.
  • Step 3: is to practice 

Having a good pro who work with you is a good thing. Make sure to research pros in your area and talk to the ones you are interested in taking lessons with. Find someone that isn’t doing a one swing fits all approach.

I would do a free fitting at a demo day to see what works for your swing with driver rather than just buying blind. Having something that’s not fit for your swing will typically lead to forming bad habits.

Practice is a good approach but it has to be proper practice which the pro you work with should be giving you drills and how/what to practice 

 

  • Like 2

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Nuetral to slightly up is going to be optimal. 

 

I know this is what everyone says,  but I am beginning to wonder how true this really is.   Optimal is needing to launch the ball at a specific angle with a specific spin rate.  I can control the launch conditions with AoA, driver launch, and where on the face I strike the ball.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I know this is what everyone says,  but I am beginning to wonder how true this really is.   Optimal is needing to launch the ball at a specific angle with a specific spin rate.  I can control the launch conditions with AoA, driver launch, and where on the face I strike the ball.  

Agree that it’s about finding the right window, but if you look at Andrew Rice’s stuff he’s done a bunch of testing and the vast majority of golfers need some level of positive angle of attack to get distance because of the better launch characteristics. But there are optimal numbers for all swing speed and aoa as shown with this chart from Ping. However the more negative or positive you get the more issues you bring into the swing.

Monte has made some posts in the recent weeks on wrx about 0-2 up is a good range 

ACA0CC79-D419-4E25-B270-15539B940E08.jpeg

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Agree that it’s about finding the right window, but if you look at Andrew Rice’s stuff he’s done a bunch of testing and the vast majority of golfers need some level of positive angle of attack to get distance because of the better launch characteristics. But there are optimal numbers for all swing speed and aoa as shown with this chart from Ping. However the more negative or positive you get the more issues you bring into the swing.

Monte has made some posts in the recent weeks on wrx about 0-2 up is a good range 

I've seen the charts and reading them they seem to indicate that unless you really are at extremes hitting up isn't the definitive answer and I can get the same performance with downward AoA.  This doesn't even address what the impact to your swing is.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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This is a super interesting table, I kinda understand what @cnosil is saying. So much of the results seem to be finding the balance of speed, spin, and AoA.

I went and got a swing analysis (basically a driver swing lesson) from a great local golf shop this weekend. He based it off my three wood swing that is on average 110 mph with a ball speed of 160. @RickyBobby_PR, my fitter was echoing the positive AoA. In terms of my swing he was able to explain it in a way that got the different swing mechanics to click, and I was able to execute it at about a 65% swing speed. When I asked him about what I needed to look for in a used driver he said as a starting point I should get a driver with an extra stiff low spin shaft. Then once I get the mechanics of the swing down at full speed I should look at getting fitted. 

  • Ping G10 3 Wood, 15.5°
  • Cobra Baffler, 3 hybrid 
  • Mizuno MP-67, 3-PW
  • Ping Glide Forged Pro, 52° & 56°
  • Evnroll, ER2

 

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4 hours ago, BK_Strozier said:

This is a super interesting table, I kinda understand what @cnosil is saying. So much of the results seem to be finding the balance of speed, spin, and AoA.

I went and got a swing analysis (basically a driver swing lesson) from a great local golf shop this weekend. He based it off my three wood swing that is on average 110 mph with a ball speed of 160. @RickyBobby_PR, my fitter was echoing the positive AoA. In terms of my swing he was able to explain it in a way that got the different swing mechanics to click, and I was able to execute it at about a 65% swing speed. When I asked him about what I needed to look for in a used driver he said as a starting point I should get a driver with an extra stiff low spin shaft. Then once I get the mechanics of the swing down at full speed I should look at getting fitted. 

Yes it’s a combination of all those along with descent angle or land angle depending on the monitor to use but also launch angle. They all work together to optimize ball flight, carry distance and rollout.

The instructor gave you bad advice. First off there’s no standard for shaft stiffness in the industry and it’s only relevant to the shafts in the same line and weight class. Example is fujikura ventus velocore blue 6. The shaft stiffness in this line is only relevant to this line. The blue 5 will be different as would the blue 7. The weight of the shaft and the overall profile aka EI profile are more important. The low launch and low spin are only designations that manufacturers use to describe their shaft and like stiffness there’s no industry standard and what launches low for one person may not launch low for another. Also if paired with the wrong head will lead to bad results.
 

You have to find a driver head and loft that gets you in the right launch window and use the shaft to fine tune the ball flight.  This is why I said go get fit for a driver to know what works for you. Buying used is always going to be a guessing game if it works for you or not unless you are buying something you used before and know it works. By getting fit you have a better idea in your guess. You get a shaft profile and weight that fit your swing, you have the loft that works and what brand. You can then go back 1-3 releases of that head and still typically be on and can try to fin the shaft you were fit for or one that has a similar profile 

  • Like 2

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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@RickyBobby_PRthat's a bummer I left there so stoked on the new swing understanding I didn't even pause to think about his shaft advice. On the plus side you and all the great people in this community know enough to stop me from making bad decisions.

I'm not sure why but my brain is still fighting your advice, I can't swing at more then 65%. In my head it's worth it to find a cheap driver just to have one in the bag to practice with, but the wrong driver head and shaft will enforce bad habits.

I'm sure I will follow the advice laid out here. Thank you to everyone who replied it really helped when I went into the lesson. 

  • Like 1
  • Ping G10 3 Wood, 15.5°
  • Cobra Baffler, 3 hybrid 
  • Mizuno MP-67, 3-PW
  • Ping Glide Forged Pro, 52° & 56°
  • Evnroll, ER2

 

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12 minutes ago, BK_Strozier said:

I'm not sure why but my brain is still fighting your advice, I can't swing at more then 65%. In my head it's worth it to find a cheap driver just to have one in the bag to practice with, but the wrong driver head and shaft will enforce bad habits.

Avoiding the bad habits is key. You already have them and getting something just to have something isn’t going to help.

A good fitter is going to evaluate your bag setup, talk to you about your game, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are, what’s your typical shot, what’s your typical miss. This will happen before and/or while you are hitting balls to warmup and get baseline numbers. They are going to evaluate all that and get you a combo they think will work. They are going to be able to use both your bad shots and your good ones to see what’s needed. The first combo may not work but they will get feedback from you as well as their eyes and/or numbers and make adjustments. This will go on til they have something that’s producing the right launch characteristics. Then they will make tweaks to fine tune it.  You can tell the fitter up front you are working on your driver swing and you have “good results” using a 65% swing. They will use that along with your “full speed/effort” swing in the evaluation.

  • Like 1

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 2/11/2022 at 8:15 PM, cnosil said:

I know this is what everyone says,  but I am beginning to wonder how true this really is.   Optimal is needing to launch the ball at a specific angle with a specific spin rate.  I can control the launch conditions with AoA, driver launch, and where on the face I strike the ball.  

You are also fortunate enough to hit a billion balls with every driver known to man.  🙂   I agree though that in the end we might totally mess ourselves up trying to chase some extra yards by changing our swing with driver. 

 

So much depends on our goals.  For the OP its important to recognize that the average driving distance for a scratch golfer is 250 yards.  If you are actually averaging 250-260 with your three wood off the tee, distance is not what is holding you back at this point.  You need to evaluate where you actually are loosing strokes, formulate a plan of attack as to what area might be easiest to improve upon based on your available time and your physical capabilities and go about it that way.  

If your goal is to be better than scratch and you think that you have the available time and physical capability to do so then driver will need to be a part of the mix.

Of course too there is something really fun about smacking a driver as far as you can down the middle of the fairway so that might be incentive to start there.

 

Good luck regardless of what you try.

  • Like 3

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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26 minutes ago, revkev said:

You are also fortunate enough to hit a billion balls with every driver known to man.  🙂   I agree though that in the end we might totally mess ourselves up trying to chase some extra yards by changing our swing with driver. 

 

Very true, I am very fortunate to have access to lots of equipment and a GCQuad.  But, my point was more about the statement that having an upward AoA is better than downward.  Maybe it is easier to achieve or club lofts aren’t available to make it happen, but balls launch with spin, speed, and launch angle which is influenced by a clubs loft, AoA, shaft delivery, etc.    if optimum distance for a ball speed is based on launch and spin,  it should be possible to achieve ideal by either hitting up or down with the driver.  Hitting up requires less club loft while hitting down would require more loft to get the same results.   If a person hits down with the driver, can it do more harm than good to have them change their swing to hit up?  What thing does hitting up allow that hitting down doesn’t?  That’s really the question.  
 

 

  • Like 2

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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7 hours ago, cnosil said:

Very true, I am very fortunate to have access to lots of equipment and a GCQuad.  But, my point was more about the statement that having an upward AoA is better than downward.  Maybe it is easier to achieve or club lofts aren’t available to make it happen, but balls launch with spin, speed, and launch angle which is influenced by a clubs loft, AoA, shaft delivery, etc.    if optimum distance for a ball speed is based on launch and spin,  it should be possible to achieve ideal by either hitting up or down with the driver.  Hitting up requires less club loft while hitting down would require more loft to get the same results.   If a person hits down with the driver, can it do more harm than good to have them change their swing to hit up?  What thing does hitting up allow that hitting down doesn’t?  That’s really the question.  
 

 

I do agree with that - although in reality it's pretty hard to get the proper spin rate with more loft.   My teacher would not advocate trying to change one's swing just because it's driver.  He would say that a driver's design will cause differences in the way the clubhead is delivered at impact.  But he wants me trying to swing the same - same grip, start the swing with the core, ball position is a bit more forward but that's because of club design more than anything else.

  • Like 2

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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On 2/16/2022 at 6:43 AM, revkev said:

For the OP its important to recognize that the average driving distance for a scratch golfer is 250 yards.  If you are actually averaging 250-260 with your three wood off the tee, distance is not what is holding you back at this point.  You need to evaluate where you actually are loosing strokes, formulate a plan of attack as to what area might be easiest to improve upon based on your available time and your physical capabilities and go about it that way.  

That's an amazing stat! I had no idea and saves me some money for the time being. I am being honest with myself on the distance of my 3wood carry. It's why I haven't looked to upgrade that part of my bag despite it being a old beat up Ping G10.

So it's back to chipping and putting if I really wanna cut down on strokes. I've been working pretty hard at putting and got a really consistent 2 putt thing going on at the moment. I'd guess that when I  start tracking my missed greens in regulation I will see 2 putts that lead to bogey's. Cause I know when I miss the green I don't usually save par. 

I gotta say this forum is incredibly helpful. Seriously thank you. I'm so glad I found such an amazing resource full of such knowledgeable and nice people! 

  • Like 2
  • Ping G10 3 Wood, 15.5°
  • Cobra Baffler, 3 hybrid 
  • Mizuno MP-67, 3-PW
  • Ping Glide Forged Pro, 52° & 56°
  • Evnroll, ER2

 

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18 hours ago, BK_Strozier said:

That's an amazing stat! I had no idea and saves me some money for the time being. I am being honest with myself on the distance of my 3wood carry. It's why I haven't looked to upgrade that part of my bag despite it being a old beat up Ping G10.

So it's back to chipping and putting if I really wanna cut down on strokes. I've been working pretty hard at putting and got a really consistent 2 putt thing going on at the moment. I'd guess that when I  start tracking my missed greens in regulation I will see 2 putts that lead to bogey's. Cause I know when I miss the green I don't usually save par. 

I gotta say this forum is incredibly helpful. Seriously thank you. I'm so glad I found such an amazing resource full of such knowledgeable and nice people! 

Good luck! Let us know if that focus helps van lower your scores. 

  • Like 1

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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