Off the top of your head....

[BostonSal]

Do you know the published loft of every club in your bag?

I've know mine for the past couple of decades or so.

I could get along with no club numbers stamped on the clubs at all.

 

Please understand that this is not intended to stir controversy in any way, shape, or form

I'm just curious as to how may MGS members pay attention to this stuff.

(Although there is only 1° diffrence between my 9-wood and 6-iron, they are indeed gapped almost a full club apart distancewise.)

[GolfSpy AFG]

5 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

Do you know the published loft of every club in your bag?

I've know mine for the past couple of decades or so.

I could get along with no club numbers stamped on the clubs at all.

 

Please understand that this is not intended to stir controversy in any way, shape, or form

I'm just curious as to how may MGS members pay attention to this stuff.

(Although there is only 1° diffrence between my 9-wood and 6-iron, they are indeed gapped almost a full club apart distancewise.)

Off the top of my head?  No actually...I know most of my lofts, but I'm not certain at 5 or 6 iron, for instance.

But more to the point, so what?  I know my yardages, which is the relevant part.  I've never stood over a shot and said "okay, I need 33 degrees here..."

[BostonSal]

12 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Off the top of my head?  No actually...I know most of my lofts, but I'm not certain at 5 or 6 iron, for instance.

But more to the point, so what?  I know my yardages, which is the relevant part.  I've never stood over a shot and said "okay, I need 33 degrees here..."

No argument whatsoever with the "so what" part.

Published lofts are only published lofts, I fully agree.

Nevertheless, some of us are more aware of them than others, and that was the point of my curiosity.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Nope and don’t care. Knowing my distances is more important than loft. 
 

I look at the 9 and pw before buying to see if my current wedge setup needs to be adjusted but that’s rare because all the clubs I have used lately have a pw that’s only 1-2* different than whatever set is being replaced or added to 

[cnosil]

I only know the clubs that the loft is displayed on the head.  That would be driver, 3w, hybrids, sand wedge, lob wedge.   This is probably because the clubs are sold based on loft designations and not as sets of clubs like irons.  Knowing the loft doesn’t provide me with any ongoing value or information I need to play the game.  

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

I definitely pay attention when looking at different sets but otherwise no. I do know they are a little stronger but that's about it. Yardages 100% know

[Middler]

I happen to know the loft of a some clubs (D, 3W, 3H, 7i, PW, GW, 56, 60 < duh) but I don’t really care once I buy any club. I definitely know the loft of every club I buy when purchasing, but after purchasing all I care about is distances/gaps.

[Kenny B]

I thought I did.  Last month I went to Palm Springs for two weeks and took my MacGregor Tourney VIP 1025M irons with me.  I had been playing these clubs but I was using SCOR 42º and 46º irons instead of the 9i and PW for quite awhile.  My old Ping i20 irons had a 46º and my Bridgestones had a 44º PW.  Last year I bought a set of Mizuno MP20 HMB irons and the PW is 46º.

So, when I went to Palm Springs I decided to take the Mac 9i and PW to have a complete set.  I naturally thought the PW was the same as I had been playing with the SCORs... 46º.  All my approaches with 9i and PW were short, and thought it was because the courses there are at or only slightly above sea level.  I was checking the specs this week and sure enough, the 9i is 43º and the PW is 48º.  No wonder I was short!!

[NRJyzr]

I *do* know my published lofts, or standard specs, on most of my clubs.  I also tend to not always follow those published loft specs; I am very much not a fan of 3* loft gaps in my iron sets.

There are some exceptions where I've had to use a bit of inference.  My TW282 and TW276 sets were limited edition, and due to their age and Ram's demise, I've not seen the published specs anywhere.  But I *have* seen the specs for the "standard" Frequency Matched set that was produced at the same time.

It's all interesting to me, but then, I'm a nerd.  <shrug>
 

[null]

Lofts mean nothing  only yardage gaps matter. 
 

Remember having to constantly explain this to NiftyNiblick back in the day

[Shapotomous]

I know the lofts of my irons when i buy them but only for a reference to equate to a probable yardage.  Lofts on the wedges are no longer exact since they have been tweaked to meet a yardage need.  Loft marked on the driver & 3w is close but not exact since I opened the faces a click.  The hybrid lofts are probably close to what is on the head! 

Yardages are what I know for all the clubs for full and 1/2 swings.

[juspoole]

I've got a pretty good idea.  I agree more important to know your yardages.  

However, when club testing, it's nice to know if you are truly hitting a certain club better or if the reason "it's a club longer" is because it actually is a club longer based on loft. I hate that so many folks get caught up in this for just not knowing enough about the clubs they play or the new clubs they are purchasing. One 7 iron can be vastly different to another.

[Middler]

1 hour ago, juspoole said:

I've got a pretty good idea.  I agree more important to know your yardages.  

However, when club testing, it's nice to know if you are truly hitting a certain club better or if the reason "it's a club longer" is because it actually is a club longer based on loft. I hate that so many folks get caught up in this for just not knowing enough about the clubs they play or the new clubs they are purchasing. One 7 iron can be vastly different to another.

Of the 20-30 guys I played with, some (not me) near scratch players, I don’t think any of them know how varied iron lofts are these days. There are blades, SGI and everything in between. They still think all 7 irons are comparable - it’s not worth explaining. Every time someone turns up with new irons and says I’m hitting these further than my old ones, they’re clueless as to why…

[DoubleBogeyPapi]

I just know the ones that say it on the club or whatever I've adjusted my driver to. Lol

[Hook DeLoft]

I do. I may take this stuff too seriously. Wait!  I don’t know the loft of my putter. 

[MNUte]

The only reason I know is because the Cleveland CBX Launcher irons have the loft and the club number both stamped on. Has no impact on my shot selection or my use of the clubs anymore than only having the club number stamped. 

[IONEPUTT]

YES, I know the lofts of all of my clubs in my bag. Main reason is that I built the clubs and have the loft data of the club heads I used to build my set.  I have a few sets of irons, and all of them have higher lofts than what is being sold today. My irons have right at 4 degrees more loft than what is being sold today, and that's the way I like them. I'm NOT impressed with todays irons just because the new 6 iron goes 20 years farther than mine. If I need more yards I just use one more club. 

[ChuckZ]

Know that my irons are gapped 4* between each number.  My priority with the clubs is knowing the distances I can hit them.  

[bobl99]

I know the lofts but I also put it on the end of the grip for each club. 

[Agent 87]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:55 PM, mywong23 said:

I had similar problems.... 

one is you may not be squaring the clubface at impact.  more weight, various places may help....

you might have a slight outside in swing path.   your irons create more backspin that might mask your

sidespin.  your longer woods, have less backspin, allowing the sidespin to raise it's ugly head....

=======

try some practice swings with your hands apart (right hand gripping couple inches below left)

this promotes the right hand turning over at impact.   

this "feel"  may help you square club face.

might also help your swing become more inside out ???

good luck.

also, use a very light grip, which allows wrists to break.

a tight grip may not allow a full release.

===============

took me two years of experimentation.... changing grips, ball placement, testing weight adj on clubs;

more lower body effort to help release club.....

now my misses are big draws/hooks --- big change from push/slice

ahahahaha

 

 

On 10/13/2021 at 2:08 PM, twyatt700 said:

 

I'm not saying head doesn't matter, but I think that it doesn't matter as much as we are told it does... as in the latest model isn't going to always be better. I just think you can get more impact with the properly fitted shaft verschanging the head... which is the idea of the original post. 

 

On 10/20/2021 at 10:59 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

May be in the wrong forum but could be considered mental game.

Dlow’s post in random thread reminded me of this hole. The course is Blue Mash which is a sister course of @Golfspy_CG2 old hole course Waverly Woods.

The front and back nine play complexity different and the back nine is usually pretty windy compared to the front. It also has shorter holes.

The first 3 holes play long from both white and blue tee boxes. This is hole 3. A par 4 and per scorecard white tees are 426 and blue 453. Red are 359 and green just slightly behind them. The course has a combo tee option and this one plays from the whites of using that option. The black circle is roughly where the 150 marker is. Tees are usually in the middle box where the tree on the left is. When I play there whites are anywhere from 400-430. Many times it’s into the wind which adds distance and difficulty.

What strategy would you use to play this hole?

For me I play a fade off the left side of the fairway to try and avoid the bunkers. My typical drive is short of the cart path that splits the fairway to about 20 yards behind it. Usually have anywhere from a 5i to my 4/5 wood depending on what bag setup I have into the green. It’s a hole that I don’t par often and play it to make no worse than bogey.

Edit: #1 hdcp hole. The green is surrounded by a hill on the back and sides with thick rough.

 

On 8/1/2018 at 9:07 PM, tony@CIC said:

Guys, Charli nailed it (exercise and stretching.). The latter had been something I neglected for years and that was a mistake. Over the winter I started a 'yoga for golf' program. While I don't follow it religiously everyday (takes about 30 min) I do some of the warm-up/stretching exercises before I go out and play. As a result I'm much more flexible before I hit my first drive.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

On 10/2/2021 at 3:37 PM, Middler said:

Or maybe because:

• you usually don't need that much loft, unless you play on a course with hazards everywhere around most greens
• starting online is just easier with a lower lofted club because it's a shorter swing, e.g. a 9i vs a 60º
• hitting thin with a 60º results in the worst outcome vs another loft (way long)
• with a fluffy lie, the danger of going under the ball and hitting off the top of the face results in the worst outcome vs any other loft (way short) - often compounded because most players use a 60º when short sided going over a bunker, water, etc. that you're now in, defeating the original purpose

If you make your 60º your go to club for all chipping, and practice with it more than any other wedge, it could indeed be more versatile. That would lessen but not eliminate the mishit pitfalls. It is a harder club to get good at because of the high loft, no matter what bounce.

Because I have room in my 14 club limit, I carry a 60º low bounce (and a 56º high bounce) and I have had some great results with it when short sided, but I've had enough mishits that I won't use it unless it's the only choice. I use it less than once a round, a true special purpose club for me. YMMV

 

23 hours ago, Middler said:

Of the 20-30 guys I played with, some (not me) near scratch players, I don’t think any of them know how varied iron lofts are these days. There are blades, SGI and everything in between. They still think all 7 irons are comparable - it’s not worth explaining. Every time someone turns up with new irons and says I’m hitting these further than my old ones, they’re clueless as to why…

That made me laugh. I've played with the same guys. If you tried to explain it you'd end up with a headache

[Hickory4ever]

I know all my lofts as well as the yardage that I hit each. It was important in making up my sets, even more important for me because I frequently play other sets of clubs frequently and can make the yardage adjustments. Since I organize and play in historical events with clubs from different eras, knowing the lofts is very helpful moving back and forth. You may be interested that loft for loft, the difference in iron distances is at best 1 to 1.5 clubs over the last 100 years.

One more point about jacked lofts. You can rationalize that a shorter shaft will give you better dispersion with shorter shafts, then why are graphite iron shafts routinely a half inch longer than steel. Simply marketing smoke and mirrors. I would rather buy a set where a five iron. was a five iron, but more importantly that a PW was actually a PW. Given the current lack of any standardization, we might just go back to mashie- niblick and niblick, oh I forgot, we now call them gap wedge or approach wedge.

My take is you need to know your lofts and yardages when testing new equipment along with dispersion to assess whether the new equipment is better than what you currently play. I am all for getting proper equipment that gives you a chance to approve, I am opposed to the current marketing trends in the golf industry that confuse rather than enlighten the situation.

[Hickory4ever]

7 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

I hit the 7 iron in this set approximately the same length as my previous 5 iron, but the shaft is about an inch shorter. The dispersion IS much better. That's not their marketing, it's actual observation and measurement. And it makes sense that the shorter shaft provides more accuracy. I've always been more accurate with shorter irons, not longer. How about you? (No idea what your graphite comment has to do with anything. I've had one set of graphite shafted irons, and they were longer in length and less accurate, so didn't last long.)

Again, loft is a number that simply measures the upward tilt of the face. Many other factors play into launch angle, descent angle, carry distance, stopping power, etc.  The numbers that are important to me are distance, dispersion, and release and roll. If the iron that most effectively maximizes those is jacked or not... why would that matter to me? It's absolute silliness to eliminate irons because they don't meet your idea of traditional lofts. 

My comment is not disputing the importance of dispersion, it is critical and you have found a club that is more accurate. That does not negate the argument that I am asserting. The primary reason for the loft creep over the last thirty years has been playing on the egos of guys that want to say they hit a 7 iron 150 yards. The 2 iron and 3 irons are going the way of the dodo bird after almost 100 years for one reason only, marketing.

That being said, all of the factors you make in the second paragraph are absolutely valid and important. What has been done though is eliminating the 2 and 3, creating a need for a GW and an extra wedge at the other end. My point on the graphite shaft being half an inch longer than the same Club in steel is for marketing purposes. The half inch extra length will likely give you extra length at the expense of dispersion, exactly like your 7 iron.

I am an organizer of historical golf events and introduce new people to historical play routinely. The understanding of the lofts and how the numbered sets evolved to make it easier for players to understand is one of the fundamental evolution of the modern game. For sixty years, there was rough standardization, the last while anything but. 
 

You are well informed, most golfers are not and my cynicism is rooted in what I believe is marketing hype for one purpose, to sell the latest toy as being better, whether it is or not. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:19 AM, BostonSal said:

 

Nevertheless, some of us are more aware of them than others, and that was the point of my curiosity.

Some of us. 
 

Or you and your 3 persona’s

[Golfspy_CG2]

59 minutes ago, Hickory4ever said:

My comment is not disputing the importance of dispersion, it is critical and you have found a club that is more accurate. That does not negate the argument that I am asserting. The primary reason for the loft creep over the last thirty years has been playing on the egos of guys that want to say they hit a 7 iron 150 yards. The 2 iron and 3 irons are going the way of the dodo bird after almost 100 years for one reason only, marketing.

That being said, all of the factors you make in the second paragraph are absolutely valid and important. What has been done though is eliminating the 2 and 3, creating a need for a GW and an extra wedge at the other end. My point on the graphite shaft being half an inch longer than the same Club in steel is for marketing purposes. The half inch extra length will likely give you extra length at the expense of dispersion, exactly like your 7 iron.

I am an organizer of historical golf events and introduce new people to historical play routinely. The understanding of the lofts and how the numbered sets evolved to make it easier for players to understand is one of the fundamental evolution of the modern game. For sixty years, there was rough standardization, the last while anything but. 
 

You are well informed, most golfers are not and my cynicism is rooted in what I believe is marketing hype for one purpose, to sell the latest toy as being better, whether it is or not. 

When you are educating these golfers.  Do you spend any time explaining to them why lofts have changed in relation to materials and weight placement in order to maintain playable Launch angles?  

[Hickory4ever]

15 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

It seems we agree on most of the nuts and bolts of what is important. I would assert, however, that there is just as much excess ego involved in sticking with "traditional" lofts and refusing to play (or even try) what might be better clubs for your game simply because they are "jacked" as there is in trying to find clubs that allow you to hit a given number a given yardage. Marketing aside, the important thing is what works for your game. The number on the club is irrelevant. 

I play modern clubs as well as everything dating back to Pre1900 because of my fascination with the game. I just updated my modern woods in November. I was fitted into a set of TM P790 irons for my 65 th birthday a couple years ago. I live in the middle of a golf course and love trying players irons from every manufacturer. I sold the P790’s to a friend last year because of the lack of feel and because flyers would go too long. I went back to a fully forged club because I found better control. The P790’s are very good clubs as are other brands.

You are absolutely right that the number on the club is irrelevant, at least to you and me. Nevertheless, there is no way to justify having PW at 41 or 42 degrees as some SGI clubs have. It screws up the back end of the bag for the golfers that are generally less informed. The ironic part of the situation is that the extra wedges you have to buy all have the lofts on them. There are a lot of players out there with their iron sets being 7-PW followed by three or four extra wedges, basically an extra set.

There have been technological changes, virtually incremental from year to year and some are featured strictly to sell more clubs. Do they make someone a better golfer, maybe, maybe not. Good golfers are usually more knowledgeable and likely get their facts straight. Interestingly virtually all the players clubs from OEMs have close to standard lofts with PW around 46.

 

[null]

Average golfers don’t deliver the DYNAMIC LOFT needed because they strike the ball with no or even backward shaft lean. 
 

So playing stronger lofts actually help they deliver a more effective DYNAMIC LOFT

 

Static loft is a fitting tool in the club fitting world; it is a means to get to a desired dynamic loft to produce ideal flight and yardage gaps. 

[Hickory4ever]

6 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

When you are educating these golfers.  Do you spend any time explaining to them why lofts have changed in relation to materials and weight placement in order to maintain playable Launch angles?  

Actually, with the exception of the 60 degree and above wedges, all of the lofts have existed in most sets from at least the 1920’s. Many golfers struggled with irons with less than 25 degrees of loft (mid iron) just like today. They had various high lofted woods to compensate, does that sound familiar. Although most irons were butter knife blades, there were clubs with greater flanges and different weight placement. Until 1938, there was no club restrictions and players ( especially good ones) had a variety of irons to produce the shot shapes they required. I have introduced a lot of good golfers to hickory and they are amazed at the versatility and trajectories possible with a hickory shaft. Steel shafts were legal after 1924 in the US. Bobby Jones still used hickory for his 1930 grand slam largely due to the feel and versatility.

So, in answering your question, yes we do talk about how to maintain launch angles. For the first time player, I use magic marker with a rough equivalent to a modern set as a base to start. After two or three holes, good golfers are having a ball, working shots and getting very creative. I would encourage anyone to give it a try, these old clubs are still very playable. 
 

 

[Hickory4ever]

6 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Average golfers don’t deliver the DYNAMIC LOFT needed because they strike the ball with no or even backward shaft lean. 
 

So playing stronger lofts actually help they deliver a more effective DYNAMIC LOFT

 

Static loft is not a fitting tool in the club fitting world; it is a means to get to a desired dynamic loft to produce ideal flight and yardage gaps. 

I don’t disagree. But even average golfers carry clubs throughout the range at least to the SW. My point is there is no need to Jack the loft. The reason is marketing. The shaft is at least as important in this equation as well. 

[DrRob1963]

I have two regular gaming sets, plus multiple other iron sets plus persimmon woods and all sorts of wedges. "A mad golf club collector" as my wife puts it!

For both of my gamer sets, I know the lofts, lengths, swing weights and distances of each club. As one poster said, this helps me move between sets, and also with hired sets when travelling, so I know roughly how far club each is going to go - because that's the single most important thing.... How far will I hit this club? 

[Hickory4ever]

8 hours ago, DrRob1963 said:

I have two regular gaming sets, plus multiple other iron sets plus persimmon woods and all sorts of wedges. "A mad golf club collector" as my wife puts it!

For both of my gamer sets, I know the lofts, lengths, swing weights and distances of each club. As one poster said, this helps me move between sets, and also with hired sets when travelling, so I know roughly how far club each is going to go - because that's the single most important thing.... How far will I hit this club? 

A man after my own heart. I have 10 or 11 restored hickory sets that get significant play. A couple classic iron sets in addition to my modern set. Large assortment of woods in hickory, classic, and modern.