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revkev
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22 hours ago, revkev said:

Also confusing this time around is that the Max was the right head for a player like me in the SIM2 where as the Plus now becomes the lower spin offering in the Stealth. 

The max falls into the same category of the sim max, the m6, m4 and m2 as being the head that was “more forgiving” or “higher spin” which is what the stealth (non plus is).

The plus like the sim2, sim, m5, m3, m1 have been the “lower spinning heads” and “less forgiving”.

As you have been thru a few fittings lately and with the on for the stealth lineup it’s about the combo of head max shaft. As the designs change from what was the m1/2 up to the stealth line it’s possible the head may change for a golfer as well. I played m2 in both 2016 and 2017 release, however the m4 didn’t work for me and the m3 was too low spinning, same with m5/6. The sim max was my driver from that release and I found better results with the sim2 (non max) 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The max falls into the same category of the sim max, the m6, m4 and m2 as being the head that was “more forgiving” or “higher spin” which is what the stealth (non plus is).

The plus like the sim2, sim, m5, m3, m1 have been the “lower spinning heads” and “less forgiving”.

As you have been thru a few fittings lately and with the on for the stealth lineup it’s about the combo of head max shaft. As the designs change from what was the m1/2 up to the stealth line it’s possible the head may change for a golfer as well. I played m2 in both 2016 and 2017 release, however the m4 didn’t work for me and the m3 was too low spinning, same with m5/6. The sim max was my driver from that release and I found better results with the sim2 (non max) 

 

And this proves my point - you know what you are doing and you need to vacillate - that’s a huge issue if you are trying to market to those who don’t 

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Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

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I used the Stealth on the back nine today.

 

Huge potential - 

 

When I’m hitting 6 iron into the green into a 430 yard hole with a cross wind?

 

That's huge!

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Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

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On 2/27/2022 at 9:19 PM, revkev said:

And this proves my point - you know what you are doing and you need to vacillate - that’s a huge issue if you are trying to market to those who don’t 

It proves that people need to get fit to find what works best for them. It proves that blind buying head and/or shaft is going to be hit or miss.

Those who are buying off the rack it don’t care what the differences are and will buy the brand they want or are used to, they will buy the loft they always play or will use the logic of I need help getting the ball in the air so I’ll increase the loft from my last one and will look for the little sticker that show the flex of the shaft and buy what flex they always buy or go with the my swing is slower so I’ll drop a flex.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It proves that people need to get fit to find what works best for them. It proves that blind buying head and/or shaft is going to be hit or miss.

Those who are buying off the rack it don’t care what the differences are and will buy the brand they want or are used to, they will buy the loft they always play or will use the logic of I need help getting the ball in the air so I’ll increase the loft from my last one and will look for the little sticker that show the flex of the shaft and buy what flex they always buy or go with the my swing is slower so I’ll drop a flex.

 

I do think this is too much of a generalization.  Most people buy off the rack or at best have an in store big box "fitting" that includes a few pokes on some sort of LM without a comparison to their current gamer.  Some of those people subscribe to the theory that its the Indian, not the arrow, and that something that is close enough to a fit will work out just fine for them.  Some of them are very good golfers who have bought off the rack, don't take lessons, rarely practice and often ask which goes farther the A wedge or the S one.  I've seriously played with a guy just like that who was a solid 4.  

 

My comment about TMag was not meant for a guy who does his research, has been fit often enough that he knows his numbers and has a general idea of what head/shaft combo will work best for his swing. 

 

I think Taylor Made hurts itself with the constant name changes because it confuses the general public.  I will stand by that statement.

 

And yes I agree that its best to get fit, take lessons and practice.

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Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

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I'm not planning to buy a Stealth, but it will be very interesting to see how carbon fiber faces stack up versus other materials that have come before. I am sure TM has done their homework, so it should be a viable tech - whether it's "better" or not we'll see. Thanks for taking the time to document and share your experience.

The need to change names does seem silly, I assume it's to induce sales by changing names/colors and marketing hype every year now - probably works with the conspicuous consumption & expense account crowd along with general club ho's. While Callaway stuck with variations on the Big Bertha name for at least 10 years, now it's XR, Epic, Rogue, Epic Flash, Mavrik, Epic Speed, and now Rogue ST. Next year it'll be the Mavrik Super Duper or the Epic To Infinity and Beyond?

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On 2/27/2022 at 7:35 PM, revkev said:

I used the Stealth on the back nine today.

 

Huge potential - 

 

When I’m hitting 6 iron into the green into a 430 yard hole with a cross wind?

 

That's huge!

Rev, Thank you for the review out of the box.  I agree with your view that name changes are confusing.  I am curious...  how do you like the sound of the Stealth vs. the SIM2?

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2 hours ago, Middler said:

...the Epic To Infinity and Beyond?

If they put a Buzz Lightyear grip on it, I might not be able to resist!

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I had my fitting today at my club, but first over the past couple of weeks I was able to play 2 rounds with the Stealth. I hit 2 drives off every tee box with TP5X balls. 
 

My SIM2 has a slight fade bias, and the Stealth has a slight draw bias. They were basically ending up in the same area just had slightly different ball flights. On the first round, the Stealth was the clear winner by a few yards. After that I went ahead and signed up for the fitting. It then got postponed because of weather. But I took the Stealth back out on the course for a second round. The SIM2 out performed the Stealth by a few yards every time.
 

Moral of the story, there didn’t appear to be much difference in the 2, or enough to justify the expense. However, I still had my slot, and was planning on giving it up to a friend, but he couldn’t make it, and I didn’t want to embarrass the pro by a no show. So I went and explained what happened, I also said that while I didn’t think the Stealth was worth changing to, I wanted to try the Stealth Plus since it was a lower spin head. I said my spin was way too high now with my current set up. SIM2 Max 9° turned down to 7° On a VENTUS Blue 5S shaft. I was launching at 11-12° but 2800-3300 rpm’s. I was fitted for this club last year, but I have made significant changes since then. While I have improved in every other area on the course, my distance with the driver has actually decreased slightly. Accuracy is up but obviously if I’m turning the driver down to 7°, I’m trying to cut the spin and stop the ball from ballooning. I have been hitting the SIM2 reasonably well, but because of the excessive spin it was affected by the wind much more than the others in my group. 
 

After several shaft combos, the Stealth Plus 10.5° turned to 9.75° on a Hzrdus RDX Red Smoke 6S gave me 14-15° launch with 2200-2300 rpm’s and 12 more mph ball speed. Couple that with the fantastic looks, feel, and sound and now I’m going to have to change drivers. I may be able to play a loaner configured this way tomorrow. If so this will be like moving up a tee. 
 

It is funny how the VENTUS Blue was a great shaft for me last year, and then I made swing changes. I now hit up on the driver much more. I was actually very surprised about the Hzrdus shaft fitting me although the Kai’li also was a good fit. 

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Driver:      :taylormade-small:   Stealth Plus 10.5° on Project X Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.0

Fairway:   :ping-small:  G425LST 3w on Adilia Rogue 80S

Hybrid:       :ping-small:  G425MAX 3H  on KBS Graphite

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Thanks for the review @revkev !  Would lowering the loft a click help with the closed face 'look' ?  Maybe @RoverRick could give some input on this too since he lowered the loft of his 10.5* ?  

 

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18 hours ago, revkev said:

I think Taylor Made hurts itself with the constant name changes because it confuses the general public.  I will stand by that statement.

Based on their sales number this probably isn’t true. Also pretty much every company has done this or still does it. Titleist completely changed their names in back to back releases. They went from the using 9 plus the year designation to TS to TSI. Ping probably has the least sensible naming convention especially when it comes to the i series. They went from i15, i20, i25 to ie1 then, i200, i210 and will be i530 if the current parents reveals anything.

Callaway has two wood/hybrid lines that release one year apart. They claim they aren’t replacing the previous one and that their clubs are on two year cycles which is true because the rogue will stay in their inventory for two years before it’s replaced with another rogue release. However there will be a release of a different line later this year or early next year. This would be more confusing than TaylorMade’s naming convention.

People on forums were confused when TaylorMade kept m1/2 in 2017.

Those on forums tend to be more educated than the general golfing public and tend to think differently. This causes them to think the general public cares as much or pays as much attention to names, etc and will be confused. Most however haven’t worked in golf retail or around reps and demo days. The general golf public is watching tv, commercials and are making purchases off that. 
 

As for TaylorMade as I mentioned their lineup since 2016 has maintained m1,m3,m5, sim, sim2, stealth plus as the lower spin, more adjustable driver. Typically for the better player from an advertising perspective and why many see that driver have slightly more fade bias because the better player doesn’t need help hitting the ball left.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Ping probably has the least sensible naming convention especially when it comes to the i series. They went from i15, i20, i25 to ie1 then, i200, i210 and will be i530 if the current parents reveals anything

Not to take the thread sideways, but I'd love to know some of the background stories/reasons how the various OEM's come up with product names.  Carbon-wood is pretty damn self explanatory... most others, not so much 🙂.

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8 hours ago, RoverRick said:

I had my fitting today at my club, but first over the past couple of weeks I was able to play 2 rounds with the Stealth. I hit 2 drives off every tee box with TP5X balls. 
 

My SIM2 has a slight fade bias, and the Stealth has a slight draw bias. They were basically ending up in the same area just had slightly different ball flights. On the first round, the Stealth was the clear winner by a few yards. After that I went ahead and signed up for the fitting. It then got postponed because of weather. But I took the Stealth back out on the course for a second round. The SIM2 out performed the Stealth by a few yards every time.
 

Moral of the story, there didn’t appear to be much difference in the 2, or enough to justify the expense. However, I still had my slot, and was planning on giving it up to a friend, but he couldn’t make it, and I didn’t want to embarrass the pro by a no show. So I went and explained what happened, I also said that while I didn’t think the Stealth was worth changing to, I wanted to try the Stealth Plus since it was a lower spin head. I said my spin was way too high now with my current set up. SIM2 Max 9° turned down to 7° On a VENTUS Blue 5S shaft. I was launching at 11-12° but 2800-3300 rpm’s. I was fitted for this club last year, but I have made significant changes since then. While I have improved in every other area on the course, my distance with the driver has actually decreased slightly. Accuracy is up but obviously if I’m turning the driver down to 7°, I’m trying to cut the spin and stop the ball from ballooning. I have been hitting the SIM2 reasonably well, but because of the excessive spin it was affected by the wind much more than the others in my group. 
 

After several shaft combos, the Stealth Plus 10.5° turned to 9.75° on a Hzrdus RDX Red Smoke 6S gave me 14-15° launch with 2200-2300 rpm’s and 12 more mph ball speed. Couple that with the fantastic looks, feel, and sound and now I’m going to have to change drivers. I may be able to play a loaner configured this way tomorrow. If so this will be like moving up a tee. 
 

It is funny how the VENTUS Blue was a great shaft for me last year, and then I made swing changes. I now hit up on the driver much more. I was actually very surprised about the Hzrdus shaft fitting me although the Kai’li also was a good fit. 

Always good to hear from you - I'm really curious about your comments about the appearance of the faces.  Do you have both drivers set at neutral?  I draw both but as you know having played with me, I can and eventually will draw anything.  Whether it's true or not the SIM face set at neutral appears square to me while the Stealth definitely appears closed - very similar to what you've observed.  I will be playing around with settings whenever I can get to the range.  I'm also going to try the Ventus Blue in the Stealth - why not?

 

@Ricky Bobby - I would agree that Taylor Made and some of the other OEMs have determined through marketing studies that it is best to make these changes.  I still wonder about that choice and from comments here it would appear that I'm not alone.  I'm not impressed by a huge increase in sales as a rationale for saying it's okay.  Everyone had a huge increase in sales last year.  I'm happy about that and hope that some of the spaghetti sticks - as big as a pain as it is to get a tee time in Florida right now pace of play is staying at around 4 hours and it's great that so many people are playing golf.

 

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

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I'd like your take in a few weeks when you've got some post-honeymoon and a larger sample to compare against the SIM2.   

While we wait, are you happIER with the Stealth thus far or would you be just as well going back to the SIM2?

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1 hour ago, bens197 said:

I'd like your take in a few weeks when you've got some post-honeymoon and a larger sample to compare against the SIM2.   

While we wait, are you happIER with the Stealth thus far or would you be just as well going back to the SIM2?

Honestly, it's too early for me to tell.  Also someone asked about the sound, it is more muted in the Stealth, I don't know if that's good or bad but I had no issues with the sound of the SIM2 but I'm one who is not overly picky about sound to begin with.  What I have noticed is that I'm not yet able to discern where I caught the ball on the clubface with the Stealth.  That's something that I'm going to be watching for.  Also I don't seem to curve the Stealth quite as much as the SIM2, that would be very good.  I can get the SIM2 hooking pretty good at times.

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Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

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28 minutes ago, revkev said:

Honestly, it's too early for me to tell.  Also someone asked about the sound, it is more muted in the Stealth, I don't know if that's good or bad but I had no issues with the sound of the SIM2 but I'm one who is not overly picky about sound to begin with.  What I have noticed is that I'm not yet able to discern where I caught the ball on the clubface with the Stealth.  That's something that I'm going to be watching for.  Also I don't seem to curve the Stealth quite as much as the SIM2, that would be very good.  I can get the SIM2 hooking pretty good at times.

Sounds like enough contrast in some pretty significant areas so thats good.

Play well Rev, thanks for sharing.

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47 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Sounds like enough contrast in some pretty significant areas so thats good.

Play well Rev, thanks for sharing.

Thanks and you're welcome - I will do a full review the beginning of April - by then I should have a really good sense of the Stealth - it normally takes me about a month to get used to a driver.  Thus far it is reminding me of the Ping 400 LST in regards to launch and ball flight - that would be a very good thing from my perspective.

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Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

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4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Not to take the thread sideways, but I'd love to know some of the background stories/reasons how the various OEM's come up with product names.  Carbon-wood is pretty damn self explanatory... most others, not so much 🙂.

 

... The amount of research companies put into focus groups and internal brain storming has to be exhausting. And even then results can be over turned by any higher up that decides a change is needed or wanted or just a pet project. They also depend on feedback from retailers which I think is a huge mistake but that is just my educated guess. I remember retailers complain to Bridgestone that the J33 was "too with no shelf appeal" although better players on golf forums absolutely loved them. So Bridgestone blinged up the J36 with frosty silver in the cavity and blue and white racing stripes. Feedback came back from retailers that they didn't go far enough with color AND they went too far with color AND they used the wrong colors AND the color combination was wrong ... so Bridgestone decided to ignore feedback and decide internally what is best for their future irons. 

... All I know is I would hate to be in those meetings fighting to change a name or fighting to keep a name with my job potentially on the line when in all likelihood the performance is what makes or breaks sales. 

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Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
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