The cost of swag

[GolfSpy MPR]

An upfront confession: I'm a bargain basement guy. I almost never buy a new club; if it's still "new," it's almost always last year's model—or earlier—that went unsold. The same is true for the rest of my non-golf purchases.

If you have resources to unload on purchases and don't mind doing so, I've got no issues with that at all. I'm honestly happy for you. It's just not me (and I'll buy your used sticks later).

But am I the only one that wishes that swag items (hats, shirts, headcovers, etc.) from smaller brands that I want to support are often so pricey? (I'll get this disclaimer out of the way: this would also apply to MGS swag, which at the moment, is mostly sold out.)

Here, I'm not talking about items that are intentionally limited, collector editions (like some of MGS's ball markers, or perhaps an major-specific headcover). Rather, I'm talking ordinary stuff. Take two examples of OEMs that I really like: Sub 70 and Edel. These are both companies that I'd genuinely be happy to pay for the privilege of advertising for them when I go to the course by wearing their logos. But again, in the main, I'm just not a $30 for a hat kind of guy. (And I need to give props to Sub 70 because I own two of their hats that they've added to boxes of gear that I've received from them.)

I've never had a brand, so I've never looked at the cost of getting custom gear made for selling. I'm assuming that if $30 is the going rate for a hat, maybe that's what's needed to cover the expenses. But if you're selling branded swag, is it chiefly because it's a revenue stream or as a source of advertising? If anyone has more knowledge than I do of the nuts and bolts here, how off-base am I?

[hckymeyer]

I feel like there is much higher margin in apparel than in the clubs.  It's why all the "influencers" try to get big enough to offer merch.  

And while I don't have an answer for you, I feel your pain.  Not just from club OEM's too but from smaller apparel brands.  I'd love to support the little guy, but I can't justify dropping $100+ dollars on one Waggle 1/4 zip or hoodie.  Unfortunately I only see prices going up in our current economy.  Guess I'll searching the clearance racks next to you for a while

[LeftyMatt89]

I agree with the cost of swag. I love getting stuff from courses I play at but I agree not a huge fan of paying 30 for a hat or 100 for a polo from top courses when I can get a new polo for 30 from TJ Maxx or find hats much cheaper. I am a sweater so hats don’t last too long in the summer months so that 30 is more painful when I burn through them haha. 

[MIgregb]

I don't buy swag very often. With that said, I bought a hat while at the WM Phoenix Open last month just as a souvenir. But the only piece prior to that was a My Golf Spy putter cover which I bought as much to help advertise/support MGS to my golfing buddies as a keep sake. I'd like to also get a MGS driver head cover, but they've been sold out for a very long time. I hope they eventually restock.

[LeftyMatt89]

23 minutes ago, EasyPutter said:

Oooh top dollar stuff, you know shirts go for about $5 at thrift 

I am a total discount golfer, if I can get a discount then I figure that is closer to the real cost of the golf round, club, bag, cart, whatever.  I will pay asking price when necessary and support a tournament and pay full price when it makes sense.  I have always been amazed by people who buy at premium cost because they believe higher price means getting maximum value.  On a completely separate note, I have some new tees for only $10 a piece... (joking and not a solicitation) 

Looks like I need to go thrift shopping

[bens197]

I buy it often and freely admit I am a sucker for a golf brand hat...especially the off-brand small guys like Sugarloaf Social Club or The Buck Club. 

Sugarloaf had a hoodie drop a few months ago and when it arrived, the seam around the lower elastic waist wasn't properly sewn.  This wasn't their fault since they don't manufacture the hoods and after a brief message, I was refunded immediately.  I offered to mail it back and they said nah, just keep it or donate it.

Little things, little reminders that they care about the customer experience.

[MattWillGolf]

My love of golf extends to things like golf podcasts and YouTube channels. There are a number of these folks I like to support beyond a . Then I visit their merchandise website and they’ve partnered with folks to make their apparel and I find $85 hoodies and $125 quarter zips. I have purchased some swag from a couple UK YouTubers who have sold swag at more reasonable prices that included shipping.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Just continuing to think about this....

I think we should make a distinction between merch/swag that advertises the real product a brand is known for (like Edel or Sub 70) and merch that is what the brand is known for (like the examples @bens197 mentioned, at least until there actually is a Buck Club).

In between would be things like smaller podcasts or YouTube channels: for them, while merch/swag isn't their product, it probably is a really important revenue stream. It likely should be thought of, as @MattWillGolfsuggested, as something you get in exchange for a donation to the channel.

The reason for making these distinctions is that I think a case could be made for (for instance) club manufacturers that having golfers wear their logo to the golf course where other golfers hang out might be justifiably understood as advertising. It might be advantageous to take less of a revenue stream from a hat directly, with the hope that having several more hats on the course might sell another putter.

But again, I'd be interested in people with more of a marketing or business mind than I have chiming in.

[Berg Ryman]

36 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Just continuing to think about this....

I think we should make a distinction between merch/swag that advertises the real product a brand is known for (like Edel or Sub 70) and merch that is what the brand is known for (like the examples @bens197 mentioned, at least until there actually is a Buck Club).

In between would be things like smaller podcasts or YouTube channels: for them, while merch/swag isn't their product, it probably is a really important revenue stream. It likely should be thought of, as @MattWillGolfsuggested, as something you get in exchange for a donation to the channel.

The reason for making these distinctions is that I think a case could be made for (for instance) club manufacturers that having golfers wear their logo to the golf course where other golfers hang out might be justifiably understood as advertising. It might be advantageous to take less of a revenue stream from a hat directly, with the hope that having several more hats on the course might sell another putter.

But again, I'd be interested in people with more of a marketing or business mind than I have chiming in.

To flipside your argument Michael, the way I think about it is similar to the principles in the differences of prices and perceived value of a brand. Sure, we all know how good a brand like Sub70 is for some, but people see the prices and the first thought in the general public is cheaper = lesser, even on something as simple as a hat.

Plus, there's the issue of conversion in the realm of advertising and how effective those ads are at converting into sales. The main advantage of what you're talking about from an advertising perspective is that the local guy wearing the hat is increasing brand awareness, but you're microtargeting to a small subset of people in an attempt to upset their own brand biases and considerations. 

The upside, a guy buying your hat and wearing it isn't costing you anything as a brand. The downside, the wider impact on people at large who may interact with this person are really miniscule and incredibly hard to convert into a future sale. Sure, you may get them to check out a site or learn more about your product, but that doesn't convert to bottom line sales.

You're better off taking the hat sale at a higher margin to sit with other brands in the space then trying to undercut them, potentially cheapening your brand in the space, for a perceived boost in a micro sense for word of mouth advertising. If every interaction with that person wearing the hat lead to a sale for you, then your hypothesis is correct, but it's just not a realistic outcome.

[bens197]

59 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Just continuing to think about this....

I think we should make a distinction between merch/swag that advertises the real product a brand is known for (like Edel or Sub 70) and merch that is what the brand is known for (like the examples @bens197 mentioned, at least until there actually is a Buck Club).

In between would be things like smaller podcasts or YouTube channels: for them, while merch/swag isn't their product, it probably is a really important revenue stream. It likely should be thought of, as @MattWillGolfsuggested, as something you get in exchange for a donation to the channel.

The reason for making these distinctions is that I think a case could be made for (for instance) club manufacturers that having golfers wear their logo to the golf course where other golfers hang out might be justifiably understood as advertising. It might be advantageous to take less of a revenue stream from a hat directly, with the hope that having several more hats on the course might sell another putter.

But again, I'd be interested in people with more of a marketing or business mind than I have chiming in.

I see where you're going...the Costco model...keep the hot dogs at $1 because even at a loss, you're still getting people in the store...

TaylorMade was probably the best at realizing this in comparison to other businesses.  A LOT of golfers identify with brands but more importantly, want to be recognized as golfers in a fashionable sense.  TaylorMade began with the Tour Style hats several years ago with TP5 or M3 branding along the side panel...it made you FEEL like you were a better player while looking the part.  Golfers want to be recognized as golfers in public because quite honestly, its cooler now than it's ever been.

TaylorMade could convince golfers that they were part of the elite crew while looking stylish and promoting their brand all at once.  It's a win-win-win.

Titleist responded with their fitted caps and the large rectangular box along the backside of the cap.

I think you make a good point and quite honestly, if I am a golf brand, I would use the hat as a low-cost means of advertising. 

[MattWillGolf]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Just continuing to think about this....

I think we should make a distinction between merch/swag that advertises the real product a brand is known for (like Edel or Sub 70) and merch that is what the brand is known for (like the examples @bens197 mentioned, at least until there actually is a Buck Club).

In between would be things like smaller podcasts or YouTube channels: for them, while merch/swag isn't their product, it probably is a really important revenue stream. It likely should be thought of, as @MattWillGolfsuggested, as something you get in exchange for a donation to the channel.

The reason for making these distinctions is that I think a case could be made for (for instance) club manufacturers that having golfers wear their logo to the golf course where other golfers hang out might be justifiably understood as advertising. It might be advantageous to take less of a revenue stream from a hat directly, with the hope that having several more hats on the course might sell another putter.

But again, I'd be interested in people with more of a marketing or business mind than I have chiming in.

Indeed, I do believe in supporting the channels I like and am entertained by.

For the equipment companies it’s low risk marketing really and a way to create customer satisfaction. While It expands brand awareness, I think it’s more for the one purchasing the “swag”. It is a way for purchaser to further affirm their purchase and feel good about their purchase. We all like to be part of “team” and I’m certainly guilty of it. After buying my PXG irons and 3 wood, I bought a PXG hat. But honestly the cost of of the majority of PXG swag is out of my price range. I was able to get a great price on the clubs because of their for veterans discount program. 

[GaDawg]

7 hours ago, LeftyMatt89 said:

Looks like I need to go thrift shopping

I have found several bargain clothing items at Goodwill or thrift stores. Found a like new Footjoy half zip pull over for $5. There are some other bargains available on last years models/styles of shirts and shorts. It takes time to research and find these items.

[hckymeyer]

Just looking at Sub70 as an example, I think their stuff is fairly reasonably priced compared to many others.  Hats range mostly $25-$30.  Hoodies $40-$60, Polo $50.  In the grand scheme of golf apparel pricing I'd say they are squarely in the middle.  

I think when looking around in our current time we can also blame a global pandemic and inflation for a fair amount of the pricing.  I feel like 5ish years ago Titleist visor's were around $20.  Now they are $35.  Hat's used to be $22-$25, now they are $37.  Just in the last year they've went up $2-$5.

 

To answer the other side of the post...most smaller brands don't have big budgets.  When you are buying SWAG items like hats, shirts, hoodie's etc, You have 2 choices on how to get a lower price.  First is to buy lower quality.  This is a surefire way to not get repeat customers and possibly tank your main product focus.  You don't want to be the OEM selling stuff nobody wears and people complain about on social.  The 2nd way to get lower prices is buy in huge quantity.  Not really an option for a smaller brand being responsible with their money and also having to invest in their main product.

So yeah, people want swag and want to promote the brands they love.  But the brands have to front the money for those items and getting something of decent enough quality to satisfy, but cheap enough to sell through, is probably a hard problem to solve.  So the end result is we get something in line with pretty much everybody else.  Plus if you are going to be throwing in a hat with a club purchase you have to make up that cost somewhere else.  

[DiscipleofPenick]

9 hours ago, GaDawg said:

I have found several bargain clothing items at Goodwill or thrift stores. Found a like new Footjoy half zip pull over for $5. There are some other bargains available on last years models/styles of shirts and shorts. It takes time to research and find these items.

I am a big thriftier as well. I love finding Peter Millar polos for $5.

[ChuckZ]

I have always been one that is more brand conscious and if I could get it at a reasonable price, then great.  Have never turned down a bargain and never paid full price on any of my purchases.  Once I retired I went to work at a local golf course and was able to get a discount on merchandise and could get my preferred FJ brand on apparel and shoes.  Later I was fortunate to get hired part time with the local FJ representative as his Tech Rep and have worked for him six years the first of April.  You just do not find FJ in TJ Maxx and stores like that at bargain prices.  Guess you can call me a brand snob.  I really like FJ apparel because it fits me well as do their shoes and they last.  

[GolfSpy MPR]

17 hours ago, hckymeyer said:

I think when looking around in our current time we can also blame a global pandemic and inflation for a fair amount of the pricing.  I feel like 5ish years ago Titleist visor's were around $20.  Now they are $35.  Hat's used to be $22-$25, now they are $37.  Just in the last year they've went up $2-$5.

So I'm willing to acknowledge that I'm just transitioning into curmudgeonly old guy who grumbles about how, back in my day, you could get a reasonable hat for $10.

[russtopherb]

7 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

So I'm willing to acknowledge that I'm just transitioning into curmudgeonly old guy who grumbles about how, back in my day, you could get a reasonable hat for $10.

You're not alone! I really don't concern myself with logos, all I care about is colors and comfort, so I stock up on brand new Ahead shirts for $8/each at their employee store closeout every December. Hats are $5. That's pretty much my shopping for the year, unless I need pants or shorts. Then it's Kohls or BJ's Wholesale for me.

[KC Golf]

I have started buying end of year sale swag online,  Like head covers, hats and pull overs.  They are well made and I hate paying full the sticker price,    

I have also decided to buy stuff that doesn’t have the latest sub logo.  Instead of buying a Stealth or SIM 2 side log TM hat, I buy a Titleist that doesn’t have anything but Titleist on the front and back.  

I do feel like promoting DTC brands, but I generally find some of their stuff not as high quality as something from Titleist, RLX, TM, GG, etc.  

Like others on this thread, I will not buy a $125+ golf shirt regardless of how nice the club logo on the sleeve looks like , etc.  I think the only ones like that I have in my closet are generous gifts from friends or family.

[Bobbers]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:26 AM, GolfSpy MPR said:

An upfront confession: I'm a bargain basement guy. I almost never buy a new club; if it's still "new," it's almost always last year's model—or earlier—that went unsold. The same is true for the rest of my non-golf purchases.

If you have resources to unload on purchases and don't mind doing so, I've got no issues with that at all. I'm honestly happy for you. It's just not me (and I'll buy your used sticks later).

But am I the only one that wishes that swag items (hats, shirts, headcovers, etc.) from smaller brands that I want to support are often so pricey? (I'll get this disclaimer out of the way: this would also apply to MGS swag, which at the moment, is mostly sold out.)

Here, I'm not talking about items that are intentionally limited, collector editions (like some of MGS's ball markers, or perhaps an major-specific headcover). Rather, I'm talking ordinary stuff. Take two examples of OEMs that I really like: Sub 70 and Edel. These are both companies that I'd genuinely be happy to pay for the privilege of advertising for them when I go to the course by wearing their logos. But again, in the main, I'm just not a $30 for a hat kind of guy. (And I need to give props to Sub 70 because I own two of their hats that they've added to boxes of gear that I've received from them.)

I've never had a brand, so I've never looked at the cost of getting custom gear made for selling. I'm assuming that if $30 is the going rate for a hat, maybe that's what's needed to cover the expenses. But if you're selling branded swag, is it chiefly because it's a revenue stream or as a source of advertising? If anyone has more knowledge than I do of the nuts and bolts here, how off-base am I?

I don't think you're off base at all.  I feel the same way about golf shirts.  If I play a course I really enjoy I like to commemorate that visit with a shirt.  But when the most "affordable" option is $80 I shrug my shoulders and keep wandering around the pro shop.  They have to know that wearing a shirt with their logo is going to encourage other golfers to ask "how'd you like that course?"  I mean who is going to buy a shirt from a course they loathed in the hopes someone is going to ask about it so I can vent my spleen?  So why not make it at least somewhat affordable for me to advertise on their behalf?

[Headhammer]

I like cool logo stuff as much as the next guy, but like most of you I prefer to be a bargain basement apparel guy, except shoes, I will spend on shoes. I loved Stein Mart, because they would carry 1-2 year old brand name polos for a fraction of the cost of this year's model. I used to buy all kinds of golf swag for my employees at my last full time gig. I would always stick to the big ones-Nike, Callaway, UnderArmor because they were seen as quality by the sales force and I convinced management that having 2,500 people wearing our name on their body was free promotion so it was worth the cost.

[Rchang]

For me, growing up less well off than I am now, I struggled with being, let’s say the word, cheap. Have learned over time to pay more for specific things that I valued
1) Quality. Have a number of component clubs that I moved on from because they were cheaply made. Would have saved money paying more and getting a used set from a well made brand (which is my Ping G15s).

2) Memories. Just got back from Pinehurst and decided to buy a putter cover to remember an awesome trip

3) Support good cause. I get value from MGS and few other channels. 

4) Expertise. I’m looking for new irons. Developed a great relationship with small golf shop and will be buying from him, because he knows clubs and know how I swing 

5) Family and friends  I did get my father in-law shirt and from Pinehurst  But was able to find it on sale because he is a small  Hey, didn’t say I was totally cured

 

[bellken]

Free swag is good, paying big money for swag, to me, is not worth it. 

[Paul Hedrick]

8 hours ago, bellken said:

Free swag is good, paying big money for swag, to me, is not worth it. 

I agree.

[bens197]

Now that Masters season is upon us, the "April holiday" swag will be hitting shelves soon.

 

Another way that companies are extending their reach is a smaller batch of special edition gear to appeal to customers and promote their brand...I truly love this time of year.

[HDTVMAN]

As an ex-manufacturer rep, I can tell you the margin of clothing is called "keystone", which is generally double the wholesale cost. If the pro shop pays $35 for a shirt, they retail it for $70+. Many stores use keystone +10% or +20%. Close-outs are in another class. For example, I had a customer who only bought close-outs or previous season products. A shirt I'd normally sell wholesale for $35 might be a $17 closeout. He would mark it $79.95 and slash it to $39.95 on his "close-out" rack. Pretty nice profit. And yes, golf clubs have a 10%-15% profit, golf balls 60% profit, and accessories 100% profit (keystone).

[550025KV]

Here's a ProTip from another bargain shopper. If you're lucky enough to have a ticket to the Masters, don't ever buy apparel (hat, shirt, etc) with the date. Chances are you're never hanging up that Masters cap. However, if it's 2029 and you're still wearing a Masters 2022 cap, you're almost always going to get the odd glance from someone.  Choose the one without a date. Same with OEM apparel.  Stay away from TM "Stealth" or Callaway "Rogue ST". Next year it's obsolete. If you go with just TM or Callaway, you're good for years.  

[550025KV]

1 hour ago, HDTVMAN said:

As an ex-manufacturer rep, I can tell you the margin of clothing is called "keystone", which is generally double the wholesale cost. If the pro shop pays $35 for a shirt, they retail it for $70+. Many stores use keystone +10% or +20%. Close-outs are in another class. For example, I had a customer who only bought close-outs or previous season products. A shirt I'd normally sell wholesale for $35 might be a $17 closeout. He would mark it $79.95 and slash it to $39.95 on his "close-out" rack. Pretty nice profit. And yes, golf clubs have a 10%-15% profit, golf balls 60% profit, and accessories 100% profit (keystone).

Years ago a buddy and I belonged to a club where many of the clothing reps were members. We used to buy all the end of year showroom/demo shirts, shorts and jackets. The Rep got a huge 100% windfall. We bought them at $.15-$.25 on the dollar and would sell them at 25% off retail.  Win-win-win for all.  Paid for a months dues.  

[ChuckZ]

As stated I more into brands than logos.  I want something that is made well, fits me and lasts.  I have worked a lot of tournaments as a volunteer and we have been given a lot of junk to wear at the tournaments and when it was over I gave it to Goodwill Industries.  Apparel brands that I prefer are; FootJoy (of course) Ralph Lauren, and Vineyard Vines.  When Steinmart was still iin operation I use to get some apparel from them, Tailorbyrd when I really enjoyed (my wife worked there for a number of years and the family discount helped).  I do need some apparel to wear outside totally golf apparel.  My FJ shirts have the FJ logo on the collar and some have the Team Titleist logo on the sleeve.  I know these fit and I can find them at local outlet stores, with the exception of FootJoy.  UnderArmor makes great clothes but they do not fit this big body.  Nike I have never cared for and will not wear.  They do not fit nor wear well.  When it comes to jeans, it is definitely Levi's.  I own seven pair of 505's.  I use to work for them back in the 70's and 80's as a District Manager in the Retail Division.  I was a District Manager covering five states, managing fifteen cost centers.  Lots of fun.