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When to abandon golf lessons?


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I've been taking lessons at Urban Golf Performance here in Los Angeles since August 2020. They have a number of tour pros who they work with, the most notable being Collin Morikawa. They helped address a number of swing issues I had, particularly my over the top swing. I've seen gains in my metrics like distance and club head speed. I've also learned a ton about my swing and club face awareness. The trackman data has been invaluable. 

HOWEVER, and this is a huge however, I haven't made any progress in well over a year. I've gotten so bad that I can't break 100 anymore. I used to be fairly reliably in the 80s before my lessons. I always hear, "you're gonna get worse before you get better" but it's been over a year of s***** golf. I'm someone who tracks all their stats so I have the data to back it up. My handicap used to be a 13. Now I'm an 18. My highest since I got serious about lessons back in 2016. 

I've spent about $12K on lesson so far with UGP, and I think I have about 10 lessons left. But I've found better success from Shawn Clement on Youtube. His approach has helped me swing the club faster and more accurately with less effort. Trying to swing like the folks at UGP wanted me to, resulted in a LOT of injuries, notably my back, lead arm and lead hand thumb. I changed coaches at UGP and requested a more experienced coach, only to be given another coach who's like 25-30 years old. Not to be ageist, but I have 15 years of bad habits to break. My coaches were children when I started golf. I just feel like they haven't seen enough swings to accurately get to the root cause of my swing issues.

I'm a member over at Shawn Clement's Wisdom In Golf Premium (exponentially cheaper at $40/mo for Eagle level membership) and just from poking around on his site, I've been able to identify a number of flaws in my swing. Things such as my grip, which my UGP coaches said was "fine", meanwhile my grip was constantly flying around in my hand. One grip video of Shawn's fixed that immediately. The downside is it's all online so I don't get the hands on teaching like I get at UGP. 

So my question I guess is should I request a third new teacher at UGP and finish out my lesson package, or continue to go at it alone and with virtual swing analysis via Shawn?

UGP does other stuff like fitness and physical therapy, so I could use my sessions toward that if you guys and gals, think I should go at it alone. 

 

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Max LS with Autoflex X-stiff 

3-Wood: :ping-small: 425 Max w/ KBS TD 60

Irons: :taylormade-small:P790 w/ X-stiff True Temper DG 105

Hybrids::taylormade-small: DHY Utility Irons 4 & 5

Wedges::taylormade-small: MG3 w/ KBS Black Wedge Shaft (50, 54,58)

Putter: Cure RX5 w/ P2 React Grip

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$12k in golf lessons, 3 different instructors, and went from a 13 to an 18?!???

Yeah, Think you should look elsewhere.

Maybe tennis?

but seriously, do you communicate with your instructors?  If you’re not getting what you want then take your money elsewhere. More expensive lessons don’t mean better lessons. Sounds like you don’t connect well with the instructors and their swing theories, so take your money elsewhere. 
 

$12k!!?!? Jesus

 

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My first thought, in all candor, was "holy crap!"  Actually that was my second and third thought as well.  I salute your patience in staying with it in the face of your deteriorating scores and increased physical woes.

If I can ask, what particular parts of your game seem to have gone to hell?  You said speed was up and distance were up if I read correctly.  What parts have fallen apart and are those areas things that have been addressed in the course of the lessons?

That's my curiosity kicking in.  If it were me I'd use the balance of the $$ on account to get some physical therapy and/or deep tissue massages.  IF this place is any good at those services, i.e. better than what you've experienced in the lessons department.

Again, sorry for your experience.

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My guess is that you have lost confidence in them. And it's time to move on. Regardless of how good they are and who they work with, not every coach is for every person and not every teaching methodology is right for every student. Their message obviously works for Collin, but doesn't sound like it works for you. 

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

  1

 

 

 

 

 

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STICKER SHOCK!  I was trying not to tell you what I think without a little research. I went on their website and wanted to look at the list of professional instructors. They are not listed. I searched another way and found three out of that location. Brett, Cody, and Christopher. Since you said you had a young guy and when you asked for someone else you got another young guy, I'm thinking you got the first two names. Christopher looks to be the oldest but not by a lot. Christopher Dunn has been there the longest (5 years) and has 10 years of teaching experience and he is listed as one of the two that are PGA certified.

My thoughts: You have already paid. If you haven't seen Christopher, ask for him. If you have it's time to move on with instruction somewhere else. Then use your credit towards conditioning or re-hab from injuries. It seems like none of the instructors stick around just by Chris being there the longest. After the time and money you spent it, comes across as that they are trying to rebuild you rather than work with what you came in the door with and improve upon it. I know LA is expensive but Phewww I would have been out of there long ago.

Good luck on your decision

 

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:cobra-small: 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex

:cobra-small: 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex

:cobra-small: Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap)

:cobra-small: Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60*

:cobra-small: Agera 35"

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2 hours ago, jlukes said:

$12k in golf lessons, 3 different instructors, and went from a 13 to an 18?!???

Yeah, Think you should look elsewhere.

Maybe tennis?

but seriously, do you communicate with your instructors?  If you’re not getting what you want then take your money elsewhere. More expensive lessons don’t mean better lessons. Sounds like you don’t connect well with the instructors and their swing theories, so take your money elsewhere. 
 

$12k!!?!? Jesus

 

Yea I’m VERY communicative. I ask a lot of questions and tell them what’s working and what’s not. I just think they don’t listen. The grip issue has been a big pet peeve. Both instructors said my grip was fine and it obviously wasn’t. I told them I felt that my transition needed work, again they said it was fine, meanwhile I’m constantly getting stuck on my back foot. Don’t get me started on the many lessons we had on the release. I kept telling them that something was wrong (my grip) they suggested lighter grip pressure which only made the club flying around in my hand worse and led to a nagging thumb injury on my lead hand. 

 

The more I reflect on the last 2 yrs, the more upset I get 

 

 

 

 

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Max LS with Autoflex X-stiff 

3-Wood: :ping-small: 425 Max w/ KBS TD 60

Irons: :taylormade-small:P790 w/ X-stiff True Temper DG 105

Hybrids::taylormade-small: DHY Utility Irons 4 & 5

Wedges::taylormade-small: MG3 w/ KBS Black Wedge Shaft (50, 54,58)

Putter: Cure RX5 w/ P2 React Grip

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2 hours ago, Thin2win said:

My guess is that you have lost confidence in them. And it's time to move on. Regardless of how good they are and who they work with, not every coach is for every person and not every teaching methodology is right for every student. Their message obviously works for Collin, but doesn't sound like it works for you. 

Yea I’ve definitely lost confidence in them. Hell I’ve almost quit the game because of my frustration. 

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Max LS with Autoflex X-stiff 

3-Wood: :ping-small: 425 Max w/ KBS TD 60

Irons: :taylormade-small:P790 w/ X-stiff True Temper DG 105

Hybrids::taylormade-small: DHY Utility Irons 4 & 5

Wedges::taylormade-small: MG3 w/ KBS Black Wedge Shaft (50, 54,58)

Putter: Cure RX5 w/ P2 React Grip

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Try reading Fred Shoemaker's Extraordinary Golf.  He discusses two paradigms of golf instruction.  Read what he says and see if it makes sense to you.  I suspect it will given that Shawn Clement has helped you.  It could help you decide to drop or keep the current lessons.  If you do change instructors, it will help you ask the right questions of your next instructor to find one to improve your golf game.  

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When a reporter asked, "How did it feel to fail 1,000 times?" Edison replied, "I didn't fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps." "Great success is built on failure, frustration, even catastrophy."

I just pulled that quote because this made me think of it. Don't be frustrated, golf isn't easy and pga pro s switch coaching somewhat often.  I'd take a break from instruction, find some joy, geek out on ball spin characteristics or shaft flex profiles on an internet forum 👍

WITB:

Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV

  1

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, jfull1914 said:

Yea I’m VERY communicative. I ask a lot of questions and tell them what’s working and what’s not. I just think they don’t listen. The grip issue has been a big pet peeve. Both instructors said my grip was fine and it obviously wasn’t. I told them I felt that my transition needed work, again they said it was fine, meanwhile I’m constantly getting stuck on my back foot. Don’t get me started on the many lessons we had on the release. I kept telling them that something was wrong (my grip) they suggested lighter grip pressure which only made the club flying around in my hand worse and led to a nagging thumb injury on my lead hand. 

 

The more I reflect on the last 2 yrs, the more upset I get 

Monte says golf swing issues are due to something wrong in setup, backswing, or transition

Check out Monte Scheinblum on Facebook and Rebelliongolf.com; one of Golf Digest's Best Teachers in CA  He teaches in Laguna and is very reasonable.  I've been to two of his clinics; drove to LA last March to see him.  I wish I lived closer to him!  I would give him a try and his videos are gold, especially The Efficient Swing and No Turn Cast.

 

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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20 hours ago, jfull1914 said:

I've been taking lessons at Urban Golf Performance here in Los Angeles since August 2020. They have a number of tour pros who they work with, the most notable being Collin Morikawa. They helped address a number of swing issues I had, particularly my over the top swing. I've seen gains in my metrics like distance and club head speed. I've also learned a ton about my swing and club face awareness. The trackman data has been invaluable. 

HOWEVER, and this is a huge however, I haven't made any progress in well over a year. I've gotten so bad that I can't break 100 anymore. I used to be fairly reliably in the 80s before my lessons. I always hear, "you're gonna get worse before you get better" but it's been over a year of s***** golf. I'm someone who tracks all their stats so I have the data to back it up. My handicap used to be a 13. Now I'm an 18. My highest since I got serious about lessons back in 2016. 

I've spent about $12K on lesson so far with UGP, and I think I have about 10 lessons left. But I've found better success from Shawn Clement on Youtube. His approach has helped me swing the club faster and more accurately with less effort. Trying to swing like the folks at UGP wanted me to, resulted in a LOT of injuries, notably my back, lead arm and lead hand thumb. I changed coaches at UGP and requested a more experienced coach, only to be given another coach who's like 25-30 years old. Not to be ageist, but I have 15 years of bad habits to break. My coaches were children when I started golf. I just feel like they haven't seen enough swings to accurately get to the root cause of my swing issues.

I'm a member over at Shawn Clement's Wisdom In Golf Premium (exponentially cheaper at $40/mo for Eagle level membership) and just from poking around on his site, I've been able to identify a number of flaws in my swing. Things such as my grip, which my UGP coaches said was "fine", meanwhile my grip was constantly flying around in my hand. One grip video of Shawn's fixed that immediately. The downside is it's all online so I don't get the hands on teaching like I get at UGP. 

So my question I guess is should I request a third new teacher at UGP and finish out my lesson package, or continue to go at it alone and with virtual swing analysis via Shawn?

UGP does other stuff like fitness and physical therapy, so I could use my sessions toward that if you guys and gals, think I should go at it alone. 

 

When I first read your post - the immediate reaction was 'did he misplace a decimal point'? I have found through several instructors  that the interpersonal side is as important as the technical. Having gone through 5 instructors in the past 10 years - the first 2 were a waste of money, the 3rd and 4th got me to a certain point in my game and the last (one of the highest rated in Ohio) was just spot on for taking me to the next level (FYI, he charges $100/hr). Unfortunately, he is 1 hr & 45 min away and is booked a month in advance. 2 thoughts: #1 I would never take more than one lesson with a new instructor, just to make sure we're compatible and the instructor understands my needs and can communicate/execute on them. Incidentally, this instructor, immediately picked up on my swing issues and put together a game plan. #2. If you're not practicing regularly after a lesson, then it's a waste of money. 

Left Hand orientation

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38 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

. If you're not practicing regularly after a lesson, then it's a waste of money. 

The thing that's frustrating is that I LOVE practicing. I hit the range at least 3 times a week for at least 2 hours (usually about 30-45 mins of drills/block practice and the rest of the time variable practice hitting to a variety of targets) and usually play Saturday or Sunday or both. The place where I practice provides me pretty much the same metrics that I get from trackman, so I can get confirmation of why my ball did what it did. So i can tell if my path was in-to-out etc. 

6 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Monte says golf swing issues are due to something wrong in setup, backswing, or transition

Shawn Clement reviewed my swing on Monday and told me my setup was incorrect. I adjusted my tilt and moved my ball further back in my stance like he suggested, and suddenly I'm able to swing in-to-out with ease. That's something my other coaches never picked up on. I always told them that my early release was a compensation but they just kept telling me "release the club later" which led to more tension in my swing and a host of other issues.

Next hurdle is transition. I've been complaining about that to my coaches since at least 2016, which was like 5 teachers ago. 

My swing looks good on video (especially my backswing) but I've always known it was wrong because it never felt like it flowed. And on the course where you only get one try to execute a shot, I can't keep swinging until I stop getting stuck on my back foot lol. 

16 hours ago, alfriday101 said:

Try reading Fred Shoemaker's Extraordinary Golf.

I'll give this a gander. 

 

18 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I went on their website and wanted to look at the list of professional instructors.

They used to have the instructors listed on the site, I don't know why they took them off. But yea, I'll def ask for a different instructor for my last few lessons. I think they keep giving me the young guys because I'm not as rich as the other clients. But I'll be more persistent this time around. 

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Max LS with Autoflex X-stiff 

3-Wood: :ping-small: 425 Max w/ KBS TD 60

Irons: :taylormade-small:P790 w/ X-stiff True Temper DG 105

Hybrids::taylormade-small: DHY Utility Irons 4 & 5

Wedges::taylormade-small: MG3 w/ KBS Black Wedge Shaft (50, 54,58)

Putter: Cure RX5 w/ P2 React Grip

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21 hours ago, jfull1914 said:

I've spent about $12K on lesson so far with UGP, and I think I have about 10 lessons left

1 hour ago, tony@CIC said:

When I first read your post - the immediate reaction was 'did he misplace a decimal point'?

A lot of people are surprised by this number but I'd say this price is pretty standard for Los Angeles. It works out to about $165-170/session. I signed up for 72 lessons over the course of 20 months or so. They definitely have the best facilities on my side of town and are full service. They do charge you for water during your lesson, which I thought was tacky since they turned off the water fountains b/c of covid. But yea, it's a sh!t-ton of money to spend to not see results. I gave my coaches clear goals and benchmarks that I wanted to hit and we simply did not accomplish any of them except for an increase in distance. But even the distance gains, can't be dialed up on command because of the inconsistency. 

 

 

 

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Max LS with Autoflex X-stiff 

3-Wood: :ping-small: 425 Max w/ KBS TD 60

Irons: :taylormade-small:P790 w/ X-stiff True Temper DG 105

Hybrids::taylormade-small: DHY Utility Irons 4 & 5

Wedges::taylormade-small: MG3 w/ KBS Black Wedge Shaft (50, 54,58)

Putter: Cure RX5 w/ P2 React Grip

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1 hour ago, jfull1914 said:

A lot of people are surprised by this number but I'd say this price is pretty standard for Los Angeles. It works out to about $165-170/session. I signed up for 72 lessons over the course of 20 months or so. They definitely have the best facilities on my side of town and are full service. They do charge you for water during your lesson, which I thought was tacky since they turned off the water fountains b/c of covid. But yea, it's a sh!t-ton of money to spend to not see results. I gave my coaches clear goals and benchmarks that I wanted to hit and we simply did not accomplish any of them except for an increase in distance. But even the distance gains, can't be dialed up on command because of the inconsistency. 

 

 

 

That’s like a lesson every 8 days. That’s insanity. Lessons alone don’t make you better. Lessons + a solid practice routine is what is going to create change as an amateur golfer. Most good pros that I’ve worked with want to have AT LEAST two weeks between lessons.  Usually a month is even better. The time between lessons allows you to actually attempt to implement what you learned at the lesson 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, jlukes said:

That’s like a lesson every 8 days. That’s insanity. Lessons alone don’t make you better. Lessons + a solid practice routine is what is going to create change as an amateur golfer.

I was not taking a lesson every 8 days. 72 sessions includes gym training, physical therapy, and club fitting in addition to the lessons. Also, I have not used all of my available sessions. I will say that the people at UGP were trying to push me to use up my sessions as fast as possible, but I put the kibosh on that. I was taking a lesson every other week. A cadence I was comfortable with.

2 hours ago, jfull1914 said:

The thing that's frustrating is that I LOVE practicing. I hit the range at least 3 times a week for at least 2 hours (usually about 30-45 mins of drills/block practice and the rest of the time variable practice hitting to a variety of targets) and usually play Saturday or Sunday or both. The place where I practice provides me pretty much the same metrics that I get from trackman, so I can get confirmation of why my ball did what it did. So i can tell if my path was in-to-out etc. 

And I do have a practice routine developed by my coaches 🙄. I really wish people on this forum weren't so interested in trying to "well actually" everyone. 

 

 

Edited by jfull1914

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Max LS with Autoflex X-stiff 

3-Wood: :ping-small: 425 Max w/ KBS TD 60

Irons: :taylormade-small:P790 w/ X-stiff True Temper DG 105

Hybrids::taylormade-small: DHY Utility Irons 4 & 5

Wedges::taylormade-small: MG3 w/ KBS Black Wedge Shaft (50, 54,58)

Putter: Cure RX5 w/ P2 React Grip

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Sorry, but I had to do the math. If you lived by me you would have had three years membership at a private Robert Trent Jones designed course and had 72 lessons by a PGA professional and full use of practice facilities, swimming pool, tennis, and pickle ball courts.

I think you should move! 🤣

:titleist-small: Driver, TSi 1 S Flex

:cobra-small: 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex

:cobra-small: 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex

:cobra-small: Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap)

:cobra-small: Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60*

:cobra-small: Agera 35"

image.png Ultralight 14-way Cart Bag

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20 minutes ago, jfull1914 said:

I was not taking a lesson every 8 days. 72 sessions includes gym training, physical therapy, and club fitting in addition to the lessons. Also, I have not used all of my available sessions. I will say that the people at UGP were trying to push me to use up my sessions as fast as possible, but I put the kibosh on that. I was taking a lesson every other week. A cadence I was comfortable with.

And I do have a practice routine developed by my coaches 🙄. I really wish people on this forum weren't so interested in trying to "well actually" everyone. 

 

 

You appear to be trying to justify staying with UGP when the clear answer is to go a different route. It’s a sunk cost at this point so the faster you move on the better

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Honestly, I'd find a new teacher.  I wouldn't commit to more than 1 or 2 lessons with the new teacher to be sure you are comfortable with them.  

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1 hour ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Sorry, but I had to do the math. If you lived by me you would have had three years membership at a private Robert Trent Jones designed course and had 72 lessons by a PGA professional and full use of practice facilities, swimming pool, tennis, and pickle ball courts.

I think you should move! 🤣

You've got me tempted to move with that sales pitch. 

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21 hours ago, jfull1914 said:

Yea I’ve definitely lost confidence in them. Hell I’ve almost quit the game because of my frustration. 

Don't give this wonderful game up. I suggest that you go out and just have some fun for a few rounds, don't think about all the mechanics. Just get the proper alignment, make a smooth swing. Go find the ball and have fun.

Once you get your head cleared, try and find someone else to work with.

Good Luck!

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Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
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2 hours ago, jlukes said:

You appear to be trying to justify staying with UGP

It’s more that I don’t want to paint them as a bad place just because I haven’t had success with them. I’m currently going in a different direction with instruction but I’m definitely not leaving 10+ sessions on the table. I’ll just use some of their other services. 

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Max LS with Autoflex X-stiff 

3-Wood: :ping-small: 425 Max w/ KBS TD 60

Irons: :taylormade-small:P790 w/ X-stiff True Temper DG 105

Hybrids::taylormade-small: DHY Utility Irons 4 & 5

Wedges::taylormade-small: MG3 w/ KBS Black Wedge Shaft (50, 54,58)

Putter: Cure RX5 w/ P2 React Grip

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If you're able to afford thousands on lessons, I would recommend trying a different instructor. There are different philosophies and teaching styles on the swing. It doesn't matter how good your instructor is at golf or who they have taught in the past. What matters is that the message resonates with YOU. The hard part is finding good teachers because there isn't exactly a centralized database of teaching pros.

In the meantime, use up whatever credits you have with your current pros on whatever you want and just play golf on your own. I would recommend not watching any videos or getting any instruction for awhile and just play on your own. You don't need to be receiving instruction every week to improve your golf game. 

When you are looking for a new instructor, the one thing that I always find to be a sign of good coach is that the good ones will always and almost constantly be asking questions. If they aren't asking questions, it's unlikely they helping you with YOUR swing. Just watch the PGA Tour, those guys don't all have the same swing. 

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My coach says that he can't "fix" my swing, but he can put faults into remission. What expectations do you have from the instructor? Are you communicating? If not on the same page, time to move on and find someone else.

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40 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

The hard part is finding good teachers because there isn't exactly a centralized database of teaching pros.

There’s literally an entire internet full of instructors. One can type in a simple search on search engine of choice and type golf instructors near me or in whatever city.

Golf digest puts out a list of top instructors, top young instructors 

Not to mention apps like skillest that has a bunch of instructors along with many having sample videos of lessons, sample videos about drills and some have their philosophies listed. Along with their pricing structure 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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15 hours ago, jfull1914 said:

It’s more that I don’t want to paint them as a bad place just because

I am someone who has never had a lesson.  I understand all of the arguments about some people learn better that way etc.  I also keep track of all of my stats, except drive distance on a free on-line website.  This forum has more than a few examples of people who are I would say fixated on lessons.  I will issue the same caution as I read page after page, of others "LESSON QUEST TO IMPROVE,  about new swing thoughts, moves, transitions, my one guy says my swing is too flat, another says my swing is to round, on and on and on.  You take "Your" swing to the course.  Learn it work with it and find out what YOUR SWING IS.  If you're willing TO PAY, someone will always take your money and tell you I CAN HELP.

You are I would say smack dab in the middle of what can be the golf lesson, instruction, instructor ABYSS.   You seem to have lost the belief that you can make any improvement without lessons.  I would tell you the loss of that belief is a VERY DANGEROUS MINEFIELD!

You want to shoot better scores. These are my suggestions.    And make no mistake, many will refute EVERYTHING I say.

1. You must have a base of what "YOUR" swing is.  Otherwise everything an instructor tells you sounds good, and you want to try it.  At some point you must say NO I'm not changing anything, and THIS IS WHAT I AM GOING WITH.

2.  A vast majority of your increased scoring I'm guessing is coming from poor play on things that are not full swings,  and are things that practicing results, instead of practicing a swing,  will improve far quicker than another lesson.  You are likely to miss 12+ greens a round.  Practice chipping the ball to under 6 feet, because 6 feet or less is your 50/50 make distance.  Anything over 6 feet is an expected 2 putt.

Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

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21 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There’s literally an entire internet full of instructors. One can type in a simple search on search engine of choice and type golf instructors near me or in whatever city.

Golf digest puts out a list of top instructors, top young instructors 

Not to mention apps like skillest that has a bunch of instructors along with many having sample videos of lessons, sample videos about drills and some have their philosophies listed. Along with their pricing structure 

Yes, you can generally find the names of golf instructors but it's difficult to know anything about an instructor without getting a lesson. Some instructors will have websites, some will list themselves on various other websites and apps but there isn't a database where all the pros are listed that describes how they teach. I wish there was a website that could centralize the information on pros and give some standardized information.

  • I would ask if the pro uses video?
  • Does the pro utilize video?
  • Does the pro use a full driving range and/or golf simulator?
  • Does the pro come to you?
  • Pricing info

I would also want the pros to provide a short description of their methods and any other general info they would like to provide. There are a lot of golfers who may want a specialized type of instruction from instructors who specialize in the Manuel de la Torre method, gravity golf method, stack and tilt (if that's even still a thing), or more traditional body based swing. 

It can be really hard to find what you're looking for because a lot of pros generally don't have a ton of info online. I partially think that's on them but if you're not familiar with taking lessons or need to find a new pro, it's feels like you're stumbling around in the dark. 

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15 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

Yes, you can generally find the names of golf instructors but it's difficult to know anything about an instructor without getting a lesson. Some instructors will have websites, some will list themselves on various other websites and apps but there isn't a database where all the pros are listed that describes how they teach. I wish there was a website that could centralize the information on pros and give some standardized information.

  • I would ask if the pro uses video?
  • Does the pro utilize video?
  • Does the pro use a full driving range and/or golf simulator?
  • Does the pro come to you?
  • Pricing info

I would also want the pros to provide a short description of their methods and any other general info they would like to provide. There are a lot of golfers who may want a specialized type of instruction from instructors who specialize in the Manuel de la Torre method, gravity golf method, stack and tilt (if that's even still a thing), or more traditional body based swing. 

It can be really hard to find what you're looking for because a lot of pros generally don't have a ton of info online. I partially think that's on them but if you're not familiar with taking lessons or need to find a new pro, it's feels like you're stumbling around in the dark. 

That’s called an interview. It’s as simple as reaching out to the instructor scheduling a time to talk with them and see if they are a fit. I’ve done this twice with instructors I was looking at. One I did it via direct message and the other via phone.

Most instructors these days have a website and/or social media where one can gather information about them and their teaching style. 

Imo you are making this way harder than it really is. The internet is the database. You can find anything your looking for with just a few simple words. 
 

I did a quick search of golf instructors in Jacksonville, FL since it’s a random location to where I’m at. Found numerous links to golf instructors with reviews 

here’s one as an example.

https://www.tpggolf.org/

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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28 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

Yes, you can generally find the names of golf instructors but it's difficult to know anything about an instructor without getting a lesson.

I agree with you 100%.  I have done the google search and gotten a list on names of instructors near me.  I have looked on skillest as well.  The golf mag list is pretty useless other than here is another list of instructors. I could sign up for a video based program which really isn’t any better than picking a video on YouTube.  Written text or a video intro doesn’t give me much to go on as it is basically marketing claims or some basic target group info.  I ultimately need to talk with each instructor to see what their approach would be,  what they recommend, and how they communicate.  It is a PITA to go through this process 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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2 hours ago, cnosil said:

I agree with you 100%.  I have done the google search and gotten a list on names of instructors near me.  I have looked on skillest as well.  The golf mag list is pretty useless other than here is another list of instructors. I could sign up for a video based program which really isn’t any better than picking a video on YouTube.  Written text or a video intro doesn’t give me much to go on as it is basically marketing claims or some basic target group info.  I ultimately need to talk with each instructor to see what their approach would be,  what they recommend, and how they communicate.  It is a PITA to go through this process 

I agree that the process of finding a good instructor is a pain. I got lucky when I first started learning golf that I worked with 3 former teaching pros who all helped me get some of the basic mechanics down. After that they left me on my own to figure out what works for me on the course. I can be guilty of overthinking things and getting tense and everything becomes too mechanical.

When I looked into coaches around me recently, I didn't mesh well with the local guys, so I looked on Skillest. Talked with a few people and found one that I liked. I've been slowly working with him as time permits. He has been working to make small changes to my swing, not trying to get me to build a whole new swing. I appreciate that as I don't believe that I would be able to stick with the process if I had to rebuild from the ground up. I don't get to practice or play enough that trying to rebuild would be in any way enjoyable. I can work on one or two small changes at a time however and still go out on the golf course and not be miserable. I think a lot of it has been communication. He will ask what I'm seeing and feeling and makes adjustments to the drills based on what works for me or explains the drill differently to concentrate on something I can understand. I'm a natural lefty playing right handed, so my brain can register things differently than a right handed person. Trying to feel my right shoulder, for example, doesn't work for me. I have to focus on the movement of my left shoulder. He has been great about understanding that and working with the swing I have. 

Driver: PXG 0811XF Gen 4 w/ Fujikura Motore X F3 6- 
3 Wood: PXG 0341XF Gen 4 w/ Mitsubishi Diamana S+ 70g
Hybrids: 19 and 22 degree PXG 0317XF Gen 4 w/ Project X Evenflow Riptide 80g
Irons: 5-PW PXG 0311P Gen 4 w/ KBS Tour 120
Wedges: Indi 50 FLX, 54 FLX, 58 ATK w/ KBS Wedge 610 (Official Review)
Putter: Battle Ready Blackjack, 36.5”, Double Bend neck

Spornia SPG-7 hitting net review
2023 Titleist White Box ProV1 review

 

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