Looking for a good Callaway Epic Max driver

[JalanK]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:28 PM, IONEPUTT said:

After doing some research on drivers with adjustable hosels I've decided to get a Callaway Epic Max driver. Right handed with either 10.5* or 12* of loft. NOT the Max LS as i do not need a low spin design. If you have a Callaway Epic Max in good condition and would be willing to sell it please let me know. I've been doing some online looking and most drivers being sold do NOT come with the head cover for some reason. Seems like a lot of golfers collect the fool things for some reason. I'd like to get a use driver with both the head cover and the wrench if possible. Please let me know if you have one for sale when you get a chance.  Thanks in advance for your help in this. 

go here: https://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com If you buy one in average condition, it'll surprise you how clean it is. Every purchase includes a wrench and head cover. Currently offering 22% off.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by JalanK

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, JalanK said:

. Every purchase includes a wrench and head cover.

Not true.  If you look at the driver he is looking for, it states no wrench is included.  

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

What I learned from speaking with UST is that their Lo torque verwion of the VTS shafts DO in fact provide a tighter shot pattern compared to their Mid or Higher torque version of the same shaft, flex for flex. 

1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

 The head shaft designer also told me that a lower torque shaft WILL give a golfer a tighter left to right shot pattern just about every time.  and my experience is that a lower torque shaft always gives a tighter shot pattern than a higher torque shaft will. That has been MY experience and the gentleman at TPT fully agrees with me. 

32 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

ALL of those TT videos are made by a shaft company, NOT by people that build clubs. 

 Based on this we should disregard the statements that you made about what UST and TPT told you since they are shaft companies.  

 

1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

I've "Read" online in forums like this one that a lot of average golfers do not like the "FEEL" of a low torque shaft when they try one. My BET on this is that after hitting a "HIGH" torque shaft in their drivers for years, a Low torque shat just feels weird to them. BUT if that golfer was to take the time to learn to "Get Used" to the feel of the Lower torque shaft they might just learn to like it and be happy with the improved performance  a low torque shaft can provide in the form of a tighter shot pattern. 

 You talk dispersion area while the TPT article discusses that their findings are that the pattern is moved left or right not that it is narrowed.   If we accept what TPT says, then a player that pulls their shots would benefit from a higher torque shaft to move their pattern to the right.    

My biggest issue with what you are posting is that you are saying everyone needs a low torque shaft.   While a low torque shaft may work ideally for you,  I don't think any good fitter would say that anything is the best for everyone.   I would also think there would be a point of diminishing returns in both directions.  Also, since every manufacturer may measure  torque differently you can't just pick one because it is labelled as the lowest.     The importance of "feel" is that it helps the player with timing and proper loading and unloading of the shaft to achieve optimal performance.  You keep saying you are a "builder" so I am assuming that you aren't a fitter,  but is your approach to shaft selection to focus only on torque?  

[GaDawg]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:21 PM, IONEPUTT said:

I have seen a few Epic Max drivers on E-Bay sell for just over $200, so I can hope to find one from a person that does NOT want to hassle with selling a club on E-Bay. And as we all know E-Bay charges a few to sell a club, so the seller does NOT get the full sales price, so that can be figured into the mix on what an Epic Max is worth when sold.  And I'm open to buying just a head without a shaft if that would bring the price down to what I'd be willing to pay. Since I plan the re-shaft the head anyway, just a head and head cover would work fine for me. Most of the Epic drivers for sale on E-Bay are the LS model which is not a good match for my game, which is why I'm looking to pick up the regular version of the Epic Max and not the LS. 

I just checked on e-bay and I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for less than $250 - $275. Unless the wrench is something unusual and different than what is used on other brand drivers, you should be able to find one easily and cheap. Heck I have about 5 Taylormade wrenches on hand.

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

I just checked on e-bay and I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for less than $250 - $275. Unless the wrench is something unusual and different than what is used on other brand drivers, you should be able to find one easily and cheap. Heck I have about 5 Taylormade wrenches on hand.

 I think he realizes that the general resale market is higher than he wants to pay.   He is looking for someone that was just going to trade it in because they wanted to avoid the hassles and costs associated with selling it on ebay.  Basically make it quick and painless for the seller....instead of selling it to some trade in site send it to him and he will provide some amount over trade in.  Basically he needs to find someone that needs quick cash and isn't willing to wait out  a sale like it is willing to wait out the purchase.    

[IONEPUTT]

You keep saying you are a "builder" so I am assuming that you aren't a fitter,  but is your approach to shaft selection to focus only on torque?  

The answer to your question is NO. I do not look only at torque. But I do look at the torque rating of a shaft before I buy. I know from my experience that a low torque shaft works best for me in terms of left to right shot pattern. I also Spine and FLO align every shaft I use when building a club so I know the shaft will perform as well as it can in the finished club. Again, my testing and that of my customers shows me that if a shaft is NOT Spine and FLO aligned it's a corn toss whether it will perform as is should in the club. 

Based on reading your posts cnosil, all you want to do here is argue with what I post, and not listen to what I post. What I said about NOT believing what TT is saying about torque not mattering is because TT is selling high torque graphite shafts at a very high price, shafts that are NOT all the great. Every shaft company today is telling golfes that their NEW line of shafts are much better than what was available when SST Puring came along, and now it is not needed as their newest shafts are made much better. Truth is I've tested some of these high dollar new shafts, shafts that cost up to $500 a shaft, and they ALL show signs of having a spine and they do NOT FLO in every alignment, but rather they only FLO in one of two alignments. Say what you want, but that is what my 18 years of spine and FLO aligning of shafts has taught me. 

[IONEPUTT]

I just checked on e-bay and I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for less than $250 - $275. Unless the wrench is something unusual and different than what is used on other brand drivers, you should be able to find one easily and cheap. Heck I have about 5 Taylormade wrenches on hand.

You are correct, I could find a wrench online if I wanted, but it would be nice if the wrench came with the driver, as well as the headcover. But it seems you and others seem to want to keep the wrench and headcover when you no longer have the driver for some reason. Not sure why anyone would want to keep a headcover for a driver after they sell the club. Just makes no sense to me. But if is quite common going by what I've found online. AT least 90% of drivers do NOT include the headcover. Maybe it's some kind of ego trip thing. having dozens of used headcovers to prove how many drivers they have had over the years. 

Why do YOU have 5 TM wrenches? Do you have 5 TM driver or fairway woods too? 

As for finding a driver for less than $250-$275. fact is I have. Just not interested in either the LS model nor do I want a 9* head. Just not a good fit for me. I also do not want to pay for a driver shaft that is 45 grams with a extremely high torque value that would be a waste of my money as I would have to just get a new shaft for the head to use it. 

[IONEPUTT]

Used RH Callaway GBB Epic Max 10.5* Driver Mamiya Helium Shaft Regular Flex +HC  See original listing
	Condition: Used
	Ended: Mar 17, 2022 , 9:19PM
	Winning bid: US $222.50 [ 47 bids ]
	Shipping: $12.99 Economy Shippi

 

As for NOT being able to find an Epic Max for less than $250-$275, that was just more false information being posted on this site. The above driver just sold tonight for $222.50. So much for what some of you are stating as fact that turns out to be false.  If you want to know why I didn't buy this driver it's because it came with a piece of crap 45 gram R flex shaft with a torque rating of over 6*. NOT exactly what I would call a good shaft for my over 100 MPH swing speed. Way too light and way too much twisting action and on the soft side as well. Buying this driver would be like buying just the head and at that price I'll wait for a better deal thank you. 

[ChitownM2]

51 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Used RH Callaway GBB Epic Max 10.5* Driver Mamiya Helium Shaft Regular Flex +HC  See original listing
	Condition: Used
	Ended: Mar 17, 2022 , 9:19PM
	Winning bid: US $222.50 [ 47 bids ]
	Shipping: $12.99 Economy Shippi

 

As for NOT being able to find an Epic Max for less than $250-$275, that was just more false information being posted on this site. The above driver just sold tonight for $222.50. So much for what some of you are stating as fact that turns out to be false.  If you want to know why I didn't buy this driver it's because it came with a piece of crap 45 gram R flex shaft with a torque rating of over 6*. NOT exactly what I would call a good shaft for my over 100 MPH swing speed. Way too light and way too much twisting action and on the soft side as well. Buying this driver would be like buying just the head and at that price I'll wait for a better deal thank you. 

+ $13 shipping + tax for many states and regardless it is way more than $150+ you're offering.  Also, finding one example doesn't prove you right, someone wins the lottery every day, it doesn't mean it will ever be you.

Nobody cares that a high launching helium shaft won't work for you, the point is, that you seem to not be able to understand, that it works for some people.  Same can be said for the stock im10 shaft included with the epic max, even if it isn't the best fit you. 

While price is certainly a factor in what goes into the stock offerings from a mfr, it isn't the only factor.  When you're talking about companies as large as Callaway, they can use their leverage of buying 250k shafts a year to offer pretty much any shaft they want as a stock offering so they go with the options that fit the head and MOST golfers the best.  A shaft isn't automatically crap because it has a ) torqu rating above 3.0 or because it is available as a no cost upgrade from a manufacturer. 

This thread has become painful to read so I'm out, but I may bookmark it so I can come back for the inevitable "I told you so" post in December when you finally score your $175 Epic Max.

 

[Headhammer]

This was a fun read!

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

I said about NOT believing what TT is saying about torque not mattering is because TT is selling high torque graphite shafts at a very high price, shafts that are NOT all the great.

Incorrect. They sell high, medium and low torque shafts. Also incorrect on the high price. Many of their shafts are no upcharge shafts in pretty much every brand. And once again the anecdotal approach of saying they aren’t good shafts yet they have a pretty good tour presence and just because they don’t work for you or aren’t great for you ignored that many others get along with them.

Edit: before you say if you but their shafts aftermarket they are $300+ yes that is the case as is the majority of shafts on the market. Callaway offers Aldila rogue white 130 for free yet it’s a $300+ after market shaft and $250+ upcharge for the brands that offer it in their matrix 

[cnosil]

14 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

FACT is I DID watch the video from True Temper about torque, and MY experiece with building golf clubs for almost 20 years tells me the guy is full of BS. ALL of those TT videos are made by a shaft company, NOT by people that build clubs. EVERY OEM claims their new clubs are better than last years model and you the golfer NEED to buy a new one as soon as you can. Just go out and SPEND your money and give it to the OEM's.

Well hear this.  NOT ME, I'M KEEPING MY MONEY AND THE OEM'S CAN GO STUFF IT UP THEIR SIX. 

 

9 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

Based on reading your posts cnosil, all you want to do here is argue with what I post, and not listen to what I post. What I said about NOT believing what TT is saying about torque not mattering is because TT is selling high torque graphite shafts at a very high price, shafts that are NOT all the great. Every shaft company today is telling golfes that their NEW line of shafts are much better than what was available when SST Puring came along, and now it is not needed as their newest shafts are made much better. Truth is I've tested some of these high dollar new shafts, shafts that cost up to $500 a shaft, and they ALL show signs of having a spine and they do NOT FLO in every alignment, but rather they only FLO in one of two alignments. Say what you want, but that is what my 18 years of spine and FLO aligning of shafts has taught me. 

I am not trying to argue, trying to understand, but it seems you won’t clarify what you are saying.  For example, The above quote talks about how all OEMs are full of it and they are just shaft companies not builders, but then you seem to say just just applies TT.  TPT and UST; which are shaft companies and you seem to think are ok, says players need to figure out what works for them and it isn’t always low torque.  But you seem to indicate that everyone should play low torque.  Now you are going on with FLO and and spine alignment which is another topic.

9 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

The answer to your question is NO. I do not look only at torque. But I do look at the torque rating of a shaft before I buy. I know from my experience that a low torque shaft works best for me in terms of left to right shot pattern. I also Spine and FLO align every shaft I use when building a club so I know the shaft will perform as well as it can in the finished club. Again, my testing and that of my customers shows me that if a shaft is NOT Spine and FLO aligned it's a corn toss whether it will perform as is should in the club. 

 

Then when I ask you to clarify your position on all golfers should do low torque because it decreases dispersion you go back to talking specifically about you and flo’ing and spine aligning.   I am not asking about you But golfers in general.   In general torque influences feel and feel influences how a player swings the club.  Why do you think low torque is right for me?   If I go, by what TPT discusses I probably need higher torque since I pull shots.  

i also asked you to clarify builder vs fitter because you specifically repeat the  term builder when referring to yourself.  IMO, builder and fitter are two different things and builders many understand the nuances of how components are constructed but don’t necessarily know what works for peoples swings.   
 

this is a forum for discussion and education;  in this case I am trying to understand and gain knowledge about you position and expertise on this topic.  

[cnosil]

 

9 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

You are correct, I could find a wrench online if I wanted, but it would be nice if the wrench came with the driver, as well as the headcover. But it seems you and others seem to want to keep the wrench and headcover when you no longer have the driver for some reason. Not sure why anyone would want to keep a headcover for a driver after they sell the club.

A clue into this is that most trade in sites don’t want the wrench.  People keep the wrenches because most work for all brands of drivers.  This is why Callaway. No longer includes them with new drivers; there are just so many out there and most people already have one.  Additionally a large percentage of golfers like to put non OEM headcovers on their drivers so they may not have the stock headcover anymore   

 

 

9 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

As for NOT being able to find an Epic Max for less than $250-$275, that was just more false information being posted on this site. 

I am sure you will find one in the price range you are looking.  eBay is full of auctions where items go for less than market value based on wording, bad pictures, shafts that are deemed to be less than adequate, auction end time, etc.  

[Jaygord]

Everyone should stop engaging this guy. He is right no matter what so stop wasting your time. Let him search endlessly for "his perfect driver" that won't be found for the pennies on the dollar he wants to pay

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, Jaygord said:

Everyone should stop engaging this guy. He is right no matter what so stop wasting your time. Let him search endlessly for "his perfect driver" that won't be found for the pennies on the dollar he wants to pay

I am honestly trying to understand his viewpoint and I am sure he will eventually find the driver for a price he wants to pay.   Unfortunately he thinks asking questions is arguing…bad part of forums as the exchange of information is often difficult. 

[Kanoito]

Bobcat, is that you???

[cnosil]

25 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

Bobcat, is that you???

Nah,  he isn’t looking for the SLDR C. 

[IONEPUTT]

THE STRAIGHTEST SHAFT IN GOLF

ACCORDING TO THE GOLF LABORATORY TESTING

• 

cnosil  This is taken from the Steadfast site and it shows ball dispersion due to off center hits with a driver. I can only assume that you will agree that most if not all golfers hit the ball off center from time to  time. Most golfers do it quite a lot from what I've seen watching videos of driver reviews done on a Trackman. They show off center hit much more often than not.  And this chart shows what happens with off center hits. The Steadfast shaft has a torque of 2.3* while the other 3 are much higher, and you can see how much more offline the balls fly.  I can only hope that you can see the advantage of having a lower torque shaft from looking at this chart. IF NOT, I do not know what I can tell you to change your mind.  So you know, this test was done NOT by Steadfast but by Golf Lab, an independant company used by a lot of companies to test their products to provide an unbiased report. 

Please feel free to pick which shaft you would want in your driver.  I'll go with the tighter ball pattern using the Steadfast shaft every time. 

[IONEPUTT]

 A shaft isn't automatically crap because it has a ) torqu rating above 3.0 or because it is available as a no cost upgrade from a manufacturer.    

I totally agree with this statement above that was recently posted. I have dozens of driver shaft with a torque of 3.0 to 3.5 that are decent shafts. But this is NOT what I was refering to when I mentioned HIGH torque OEM shafts in todays drivers. Most of the extra light weight OEM shafts I'm seeing in todays drivers have a torque of well over 4 and going up to over 6 in many shafts. 

There was also a post recently saying you can get a $300 shaft in your new $500 driver at NO upcharge fee. If the person that posted that really believed this is true, I;ll let them live in their fairyland world of dreams. I have a driver with one of thsed so called $300 shafts in it. I also have the REAL after market shaft with the same name as the OEM shaft that came with the driver. When I checked the specs for the OEM shaft I found that it had a torque of 4.5, while the after market shaft of the same name has a torque of 3.2. NOT the same shaft at all. The OEM shaft also has a lower kick point and is about 7 grams lighter than the real aftermarket shaft. Also the OEM shaft was a different color, so there is not way it's the same shaft, just has the same name on it.  Again, I'll let you decide if you are really getting a $300 aftermarket shaft in that new driver. 

And before you tell me not all shafts are measured the same way for torque, I already know this fact. But what YOU don't know is that I happen to have a test setup that allows me to measure the torque of any shaft I want to measure. And when I test a shaft, I do it the EXACT SAME WAY with every shaft I test, so what I see from my hands on measuring test IS the same for all shafts. So what I find is real data, not just what the shaft company tells us. 

[IONEPUTT]

Someone here also posted that I was offering the same $151.20 that a store was saying was the trade-in value for an Epic Max driver. NOT TRUE at all if you care to re-read my first post in this thread. I posted that IF someone here had a driver they were thinking of trading in, I would like to get with them and come to an agreement on price I'd pay for their driver. The amount I'd be willing to pay for said driver would depend on a few things. Like headcover and tool encluded, and what shaft is installed and what condition the club is in. Sad to say it, but NOT all one year old drivers look the same. My 2006 Cleveland driver looks pretty much like new, while I see lots of almost new drivers that look like something from the stone age. Bottom line is I did NOT offer to pay only $151 for a used Epic Max, that was just a reference to use so an agreement of price could be worked out between me and the seller.