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Looking for a good Callaway Epic Max driver


IONEPUTT
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cnosil

I have posted my test data on how a low torque shaft gives ME a much tighter shot pattern than what I get using a higher torque shaft. I've posted a chart showing the same results in a test done by Golf Lab for you to look at. I's like to know WHAT testing and what data you have that would show that my data is wrong.  Have you done any of your own testing with shaft torque? Or are you going by what you read somewhere, or what someone told you?  If you have your own test data please feel free to post it for all here to see so everyone here can decide what is true and was is not. 

 

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15 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

I just checked on e-bay and I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for less than $250 - $275. Unless the wrench is something unusual and different than what is used on other brand drivers, you should be able to find one easily and cheap. Heck I have about 5 Taylormade wrenches on hand.

You are correct, I could find a wrench online if I wanted, but it would be nice if the wrench came with the driver, as well as the headcover. But it seems you and others seem to want to keep the wrench and headcover when you no longer have the driver for some reason. Not sure why anyone would want to keep a headcover for a driver after they sell the club. Just makes no sense to me. But if is quite common going by what I've found online. AT least 90% of drivers do NOT include the headcover. Maybe it's some kind of ego trip thing. having dozens of used headcovers to prove how many drivers they have had over the years. 

Why do YOU have 5 TM wrenches? Do you have 5 TM driver or fairway woods too? 

As for finding a driver for less than $250-$275. fact is I have. Just not interested in either the LS model nor do I want a 9* head. Just not a good fit for me. I also do not want to pay for a driver shaft that is 45 grams with a extremely high torque value that would be a waste of my money as I would have to just get a new shaft for the head to use it. 

Everyone is just trying to help you and it appears you don't like the suggestions. I will mail you a wrench if you provide your address.

No reason to get all worked up. 😬

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Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  7 - PW T100S, 4 -6 T200 all with Nippon NS Pro 880 AMC Chrome Stiff 

Irons: :cobra-small: 4 - PW King Forged Tec with Aerotech Steelfiber I95 Stiff

Wedges:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 56*, 60*  Standard Wedge Shafts   

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5           
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 or Maxfli Tour

 

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47 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

There was also a post recently saying you can get a $300 shaft in your new $500 driver at NO upcharge fee. If the person that posted that really believed this is true, I;ll let them live in their fairyland world of dreams. I have a driver with one of thsed so called $300 shafts in it. I also have the REAL after market shaft with the same name as the OEM shaft that came with the driver. When I checked the specs for the OEM shaft I found that it had a torque of 4.5, while the after market shaft of the same name has a torque of 3.2.

It’s absolutely true. Aldila wanted to get the Rogue white into more peoples hands and worked with Callaway to make it a no upcharge shaft.

Outside of the TX flex shafts and made for hzrdus red RDX  in TM woods all of the PX shafts are aftermarket shafts that are just bought in large quantities by the OEMs to allow them to be no upcharge.

This has been confirmed over and over by Don Brown on multiple forums everytime the questions of real deal vs made for comes up or if there’s a difference between handcrafted and non handcrafted

What shaft did you have that was a 4.5 and the aftermarket was a 3.2?

 You do know that some brands have done made for shafts that have the same name and in some cases same paint as the real deal but with different specs. This isn’t anything new in the industry. See Fujikura ventus vs ventus velocore. Other fujikura and Mitsubishi shafts have been like this 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

 This is taken from the Steadfast site and it shows ball dispersion due to off center hits with a driver. I can only assume that you will agree that most if not all golfers hit the ball off center from time to  time. Most golfers do it quite a lot from what I've seen watching videos of driver reviews done on a Trackman. They show off center hit much more often than not.  And this chart shows what happens with off center hits. The Steadfast shaft has a torque of 2.3* while the other 3 are much higher, and you can see how much more offline the balls fly.  I can only hope that you can see the advantage of having a lower torque shaft from looking at this chart. IF NOT, I do not know what I can tell you to change your mind.  So you know, this test was done NOT by Steadfast but by Golf Lab, an independant company used by a lot of companies to test their products to provide an unbiased report. 

 
 
Please feel free to pick which shaft you would want in your driver.  I'll go with the tighter ball pattern using the Steadfast shaft every time. 

Agree players struggle to hit the center.  TXG did a mini review of the steadfast and basically said low torque may work for some but not for everyone.  It was interesting that the steadfast shaft made the Ping driver they were using basically unplayable.  you think TT produces terrible shafts;  the general review of steadfast is that they have terrible customer support, quality control, and the shafts aren’t that great.  For,you the shaft is perfect and that is great.  As for the report, I didn’t see any measurements of the competitor shafts,  just the manufacturer and a stiffness.   Based on the standard deviations it can be assumed that the test was done with a swing robot.  While that is fine it does isolate how a player reacts to the shaft and how the player specific dispersion and direction is influenced.  
 

What I see and what everyone is saying is that low torque MAY benefit some players.  As I have mentioned before; a player that delivers the face a little closed to the path may benefit from a higher torque to allow the twisting to leave the face open a little bit.   You seem to believe that low torque works for everyone and other than you I can find no evidence that that is correct.  

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Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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15 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

cnosil

I have posted my test data on how a low torque shaft gives ME a much tighter shot pattern than what I get using a higher torque shaft. I've posted a chart showing the same results in a test done by Golf Lab for you to look at. I's like to know WHAT testing and what data you have that would show that my data is wrong.  Have you done any of your own testing with shaft torque? Or are you going by what you read somewhere, or what someone told you?  If you have your own test data please feel free to post it for all here to see so everyone here can decide what is true and was is not. 

 

I am glad you capitalized the ME, because I agree that low torque works for you.   I don’t believe I have ever said your data was wrong as it reflects you and your swing.  I object to your blanket statements that it is the best for all.  
 

i don’t keep my test data nor do I know all the specs associated with the various shaft and head combinations I try.  The shafts in my bag, that work best for me, are advertised as having torque in the 3.0 to 3.9 range.  Not sure I would consider those to be low torque.  
 

 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2,

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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And before comments come in about price of shafts, anyone that’s been around forums and have read mgs articles or listened to their podcasts knows that club manufacturers aren’t paying $300/shaft even in small quantities and especially in large bulk orders.

They are that much aftermarket so that all the middle men also get paid when a shaft is sold.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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consil    I object to your blanket statements that it is the best for all.  

I did NOT say a low torque shaft is best for all, What I posted was that a low torque shaft will produce a tighter left to right ball pattern. If that is NOT what you or anyone else here would think was a good idea, please feel free to say you prefer a wider ball dispersion pattern and we can stop typing about this subject. ME, I'll go with tighter ball shot pattern and you can have what you like. 

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22 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

consil    I object to your blanket statements that it is the best for all.  

I did NOT say a low torque shaft is best for all, What I posted was that a low torque shaft will produce a tighter left to right ball pattern. If that is NOT what you or anyone else here would think was a good idea, please feel free to say you prefer a wider ball dispersion pattern and we can stop typing about this subject. ME, I'll go with tighter ball shot pattern and you can have what you like. 

It’s not that anyone prefers a wider dispersion area it’s that torque has nothing to do with dispersion. Weight and ei profile paired with the right head size and loft that optimizes the ball flight for the individual golfer is what produces the possibility to reduce dispersion area. Not to mention that torque has no industry standard so torque like flex is only applicable to the shafts in a line from the manufacturer.

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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RickyBobby_PR     I guess you didn't see the chart I posted that shows you are dead WRONG on whether torque effects dispersion size. Either you didn't see the big chart I posted or you just don't want to believe it and admit you are wrong before those that post here. But that's okay if it makes you happy. 

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2 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

consil    I object to your blanket statements that it is the best for all.  

I did NOT say a low torque shaft is best for all, What I posted was that a low torque shaft will produce a tighter left to right ball pattern. If that is NOT what you or anyone else here would think was a good idea, please feel free to say you prefer a wider ball dispersion pattern and we can stop typing about this subject. ME, I'll go with tighter ball shot pattern and you can have what you like. 

Now you are just twisting things to suit your narrative.  Yes,  tighter dispersion is what you want and is what all golfer want.   If we refer to what TPT says,  your low torque tight dispersion could be in the woods on the left.  If that tight ball pattern is what you think people need then keep building those low torque setups.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2,

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

RickyBobby_PR     I guess you didn't see the chart I posted that shows you are dead WRONG on whether torque effects dispersion size. Either you didn't see the big chart I posted or you just don't want to believe it and admit you are wrong before those that post here. But that's okay if it makes you happy. 

Cnosil already pointed out the flaw with that. And there’s not a single fitter that uses torque to determine a shaft for a golfer during a fitting. They use weight and profile to find the right shaft after they find the right head. 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

RickyBobby_PR     I guess you didn't see the chart I posted that shows you are dead WRONG on whether torque effects dispersion size. Either you didn't see the big chart I posted or you just don't want to believe it and admit you are wrong before those that post here. But that's okay if it makes you happy. 

For the sake of everyone, would you please find you a Callaway Epic Max driver. Right handed with either 10.5* or 12* of loft. NOT the Max LS as i do not need a low spin design. Hopefully, you can find one with the preferred shaft, Callaway headcover and wrench at a very cheap price soon. I think you have worn out the topic here, please move on........

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Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  7 - PW T100S, 4 -6 T200 all with Nippon NS Pro 880 AMC Chrome Stiff 

Irons: :cobra-small: 4 - PW King Forged Tec with Aerotech Steelfiber I95 Stiff

Wedges:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 56*, 60*  Standard Wedge Shafts   

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5           
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 or Maxfli Tour

 

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Wait, im still confused! If you “have customers” and “spine and flow every shaft”, how could you possibly not have a head wrench? Do you give them away?

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11 minutes ago, Tyler86 said:

Wait, im still confused! If you “have customers” and “spine and flow every shaft”, how could you possibly not have a head wrench? Do you give them away?

They probably have too high of a torque value  🤣

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2,

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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5 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

RickyBobby_PR     I guess you didn't see the chart I posted that shows you are dead WRONG on whether torque effects dispersion size. Either you didn't see the big chart I posted or you just don't want to believe it and admit you are wrong before those that post here. But that's okay if it makes you happy. 

You want to believe one shaft company but not another. Using your logic I posted a video of an expert saying torque has nothing to do with dispersion and is about feel. Since you said you watched and don’t believe because you don’t want to admit you are wrong in front of the forum.

I don’t have a problem admitting when I’m wrong I’ve done that on here in the past. Which I’m not in this case

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 3/17/2022 at 5:29 PM, cnosil said:

Not true.  If you look at the driver he is looking for, it states no wrench is included.  

Oooops. I whiffed on that one.

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Once again someone reads one of my posts and mis-reads what I posted. I "NEVER" said I did not have a wrench to use on the driver, I posted that I find it odd that people but drivers up for sale on E-Bay and they do not include the tool nor the headcover with the driver. I asked "What do they do with the tools and headcover when they sell the club?  Not sure what anyone would do with a headcover for a driver they don't have anymore?  Just my opinion guys.  

As for me having a wrench for a driver, I DO have a few of them as I happen to have a few old TM drivers that take a wrench. Again, I was just hoping to get a Callaway tool to go with the Callaway driver, as I have ZERO data that says all OEM's use the same torque setting for their clubs. Is a TM wrench set to click at the same torque setting as the other brands? Does anyone here know for a fact is they are the same?  Or are you just making another wild guess with no idea if you're right or wrong?   

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17 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Does anyone here know for a fact is they are the same?  Or are you just making another wild guess with no idea if you're right or wrong? 

Facts?  What good would they do when you seem to think that only you have facts and everyone else is wrong cuz you dont agree with them?

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Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

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2 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

Once again someone reads one of my posts and mis-reads what I posted. I "NEVER" said I did not have a wrench to use on the driver, I posted that I find it odd that people but drivers up for sale on E-Bay and they do not include the tool nor the headcover with the driver. I asked "What do they do with the tools and headcover when they sell the club?  Not sure what anyone would do with a headcover for a driver they don't have anymore?  Just my opinion guys.  

As for me having a wrench for a driver, I DO have a few of them as I happen to have a few old TM drivers that take a wrench. Again, I was just hoping to get a Callaway tool to go with the Callaway driver, as I have ZERO data that says all OEM's use the same torque setting for their clubs. Is a TM wrench set to click at the same torque setting as the other brands? Does anyone here know for a fact is they are the same?  Or are you just making another wild guess with no idea if you're right or wrong?   

Dang! I thought you had found that perfect driver, shaft, head cover and wrench. C'mon man, come off the hip and buy it......😀

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  7 - PW T100S, 4 -6 T200 all with Nippon NS Pro 880 AMC Chrome Stiff 

Irons: :cobra-small: 4 - PW King Forged Tec with Aerotech Steelfiber I95 Stiff

Wedges:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 56*, 60*  Standard Wedge Shafts   

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5           
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 or Maxfli Tour

 

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