Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[Middler]

5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Saw a headline that per Norman the LIV offer to Tiger WAS $700-800 million

FIFY

[Rickp]

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Saw a headline that per Norman the LIV offer to Tiger is $700-800 million

That’ll get your attention!!

[Middler]

7 minutes ago, Rickp said:

That’ll get your attention!!

Evidently it didn’t…

[Siamese Moose]

3 hours ago, Headhammer said:

Have any OEMs taken a public stance on LIV yet? Obviously, there have been companies that have dropped players, but I don't think I've seen any company come out and publicly disavow LIV. Odyssey social media seems to believe a win is a win is a win. 

At my range (Miles of Golf Cincinnati) there were multiple Odysey posters featuring Kevin Na ("Walk it in with Na"). They all disappeared when he signed with LIV. I don't know if that was an Odyssey or local decision.

[TBS]

5 hours ago, Alf. S said:

I’m strugling to understand the organisation of Golf.

1) you have the R&A and the USGA that define the rules of golf and run their respective Opens

2) PGA of America runs the US PGA Championship and Ryder Cup US

3) PGA Tour runs the tour and the Fed Ex, Korn Ferry

4) European Tour runs DP World Tour and Race to Dubai, Challenger Tour

5) WGC events?

6) Ryder Cup Europe?

7) Asia Tour

who decides what? World ranking points in particular. What is the hierarchy?

Im no great supporter of LIV and where the money comes from but players are making decisions based on cash, which they are entitled to do. 

 

 

I would think it ultimately comes down to the One World Golf Ranking board made up of:

Chairman – Peter Dawson

Augusta National Golf Club – Buzzy Johnson

European Tour – Keith Pelley

International Federation of PGA Tours – Keith Waters

PGA of America – Seth Waugh

PGA TOUR – Jay Monahan

The R&A – Martin Slumbers

USGA – Mike Whan

 

Here's an interesting slide deck I found on the updated OWGR points from August 2021. As discussed at length on here, LIV has A LOT to change to get OWGR points. 

http://www.owgr.com/Archive/Announcement/OWGR - Updated System Information - FINAL.pdf

[chisag]

8 hours ago, BIG STU said:

f you think this is something you ought to read some of the articles that are on my FB feeds---- Personally I do not know what to believe anymore from either side.

 

... Sadly I watched All The Presidents Men last night and it reminded me of a time when news was a loss leader but accurate and not a profitable part of a TV Stations revenue. A good friend of mine did a weekend shift at my radio station in Philly but his full time job was Field News Editor in charge of getting video to use on air. They had to have 3 verifiable sources before they could run a story and he thought it was frustrating when they had 2 verified sources and couldn't run the story but was glad those checks and balances were in place. The day they announced they no longer would verify sources and run what they wanted with a single source was the day he put in his two week notice because they would no longer be broadcasting "news". 

... Rupert Murdoch changed everything when he started a TV station that bent the "news" to what his audience wanted to hear and his station made huge profits. Constant opinion and very little real news and it really started the divide that was no longer agree to disagree but one side vs the other. Beginning of the end as over time every cable "news" station followed tailoring their content to their audience and now it takes real diligence and time to find the truth, and even then it may not be available. 

[MacTourney]

4 hours ago, Rickp said:

That’ll get your attention!!

 

Wow!  I'll sign for as little as a free lifetime gasoline card for me and my direct descendants.

 

[fixyurdivot]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Saw a headline that per Norman the LIV offer to Tiger is $700-800 million

Well for crying out loud, no wonder he passed.  Something ending with a "B" or move along.... jeeezzz. 

[EEZurg]

Sure looked like a political rally this week......just sayin.......

[Bang60]

6 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Sadly I watched All The Presidents Men last night and it reminded me of a time when news was a loss leader but accurate and not a profitable part of a TV Stations revenue. A good friend of mine did a weekend shift at my radio station in Philly but his full time job was Field News Editor in charge of getting video to use on air. They had to have 3 verifiable sources before they could run a story and he thought it was frustrating when they had 2 verified sources and couldn't run the story but was glad those checks and balances were in place. The day they announced they no longer would verify sources and run what they wanted with a single source was the day he put in his two week notice because they would no longer be broadcasting "news". 

... Rupert Murdoch changed everything when he started a TV station that bent the "news" to what his audience wanted to hear and his station made huge profits. Constant opinion and very little real news and it really started the divide that was no longer agree to disagree but one side vs the other. Beginning of the end as over time every cable "news" station followed tailoring their content to their audience and now it takes real diligence and time to find the truth, and even then it may not be available. 

I've been telling all and sundry that the news is one person's version of what's going on, yeah like others Murdoch has a axe to grind. If I can't see it happening it didn't imho...

[shootmyage]

been thinking after fedex who may go to liv golf ,  money and chance --matsuma , 300m , 90% -- c. smith , 200m 80%  -- fowler , 40m , 80% -- j. day , 40m , 70% -- c. champ , 25m , 70% .

could get offers -- adam scott -- rose -- hovland .

but who knows , sometimes you are the bug and sometimes you are the windshield .

just my thoughts

[Bang60]

5 hours ago, shootmyage said:

been thinking after fedex who may go to liv golf ,  money and chance --matsuma , 300m , 90% -- c. smith , 200m 80%  -- fowler , 40m , 80% -- j. day , 40m , 70% -- c. champ , 25m , 70% .

could get offers -- adam scott -- rose -- hovland .

but who knows , sometimes you are the bug and sometimes you are the windshield .

just my thoughts

Bringing the Asian market got to cost more than $200, and Smith knowing how much the others got got to want double that because he's one of the best 3 players in the world now. I'd be surprised if Day Rose got offered anything and it would charity from Greg and he's not so inclined lol...

[tony@CIC]

On 8/1/2022 at 3:02 PM, Rickp said:

Heck, I would have chipped in a couple bucks.

Should I use Paypal or just send you my CC for the contribution. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

48 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Bringing the Asian market got to cost more than $200, and Smith knowing how much the others got got to want double that because he's one of the best 3 players in the world now. I'd be surprised if Day Rose got offered anything and it would charity from Greg and he's not so inclined lol...

Smith winning a major and getting a boost up to #2 still doesn’t make him more valuable than DJ. 

[Bang60]

20 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Smith winning a major and getting a boost up to #2 still doesn’t make him more valuable than DJ. 

Hmmm dj is on the lamb while cs is on high trajectory, that could change if cs joined Liv...

[shootmyage]

to me the only way the pga can help solve this mess is to let the liv players that have enough points this year ( except the ones that quit the pga tour )  play in the fedex , starting with the 125 . 

next year they are yoyo ( you're on your own ) and no fedex for any of them as they cannot get enough points unless they are grandfathered  into a major and make enough $$$ to make 2023 play offs .

this thing is going to turn into a real mess .

 

.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Bang60 said:

Hmmm dj is on the lamb while cs is on high trajectory, that could change if cs joined Liv...

If cam smith joined LIV he’s still not that popular.

Hes a good player but he’s not a fan draw. 

1 hour ago, shootmyage said:

to me the only way the pga can help solve this mess is to let the liv players that have enough points this year ( except the ones that quit the pga tour )  play in the fedex , starting with the 125 . 

next year they are yoyo ( you're on your own ) and no fedex for any of them as they cannot get enough points unless they are grandfathered  into a major and make enough $$$ to make 2023 play offs .

this thing is going to turn into a real mess .

 

.  

Some players who have plenty of points resigned from the tour they have no status.

Also remember the pga has nothing to fix. They told the players they could either play by the rules they agreed.

The players chose to not play by the rules and they suffered the consequences. The PGA isn’t going anywhere and they haven’t lost anyone that is going to negatively effect their viewership or in person attendance.

The only person that has that effect is Tiger. DJ or the others guys aren’t going to cost an event 20 thousand fans by not being there 

[TBS]

This makes me sad for the future of pro golf. It's going to be a miserable 2-3 years while this go to the courts. 

With LIV finding it's biggest cheerleader so far in Trump has brought even more politics into this scenario. I watch golf as an escape and now that won't be the case anymore. Regardless of your own politics, this isn't going to be enjoyable. 

[shootmyage]

i believe in the long run (3-4 yrs) this court thing will be best for all of golf , the pga will make some good changes which will be better for the players and liv will make some changes .

in the long run the pga will still get the cream of the best players and liv will get some of the others and go world wide with them .

the court action is good as this can not go on the way it is now , after east wood the liv will pick up 4 or 5 players and all be done .. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Well the legal challenges are here. Phil plus 10/11 others are filing anti trust and asking for injunction to play in FedEx so they can earn owgr and be eligible for the majors next year.

This is going to be interesting 

[tony@CIC]

36 minutes ago, TBS said:

This makes me sad for the future of pro golf. It's going to be a miserable 2-3 years while this go to the courts. 

With LIV finding it's biggest cheerleader so far in Trump has brought even more politics into this scenario. I watch golf as an escape and now that won't be the case anymore. Regardless of your own politics, this isn't going to be enjoyable. 

I'd agree - I may no longer watch anything but LPGA or Collegiate golf as I stated earlier.

I was with our 'away group' yesterday, after golf the topic turned to LIV and with one exception (me), they all thought the players should 'take the money and run' . When this is all over - if it ever is, the real winners; lawyers and of course the 'talking heads' on TV who will drone endlessly on the topic! 

[Middler]

19 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Well the legal challenges are here. Phil plus 10/11 others are filing anti trust and asking for injunction to play in FedEx so they can earn owgr and be eligible for the majors next year.

This is going to be interesting 

So the LIV players who said they wanted to play less and get paid (a lot) more, now want to add PGA events to their schedule? They want to play 8 LIV events this year, 14 LIV events next year, and cherry pick/play at least 15 PGA events to remain PGA members. So they all bald face lied in not admitting they went to LIV for the money and now the "family friendly" LIV schedule claim many made is the more recent lie...

I hope the tours are kept entirely separate, all the existing events are grandfathered in to PGA member players (including major, OWGR, etc.), and LIV can develop their own events going forward. Unfortunately I doubt that's what will happen. 

[TBS]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

So the LIV players who said they wanted to play less and get paid (a lot) more, now want to add PGA events to their schedule? They want to play 8 LIV events this year, 14 LIV events next year, and cherry pick/play at least 15 PGA events to remain PGA members. So they all bald face lied in not admitting they went to LIV for the money and now the "family friendly" LIV schedule claim many made is the more recent lie...

I hope the tours are kept entirely separate, all the existing events are grandfathered in to PGA member players (including major, OWGR, etc.), and LIV can develop their own events going forward. Unfortunately I doubt that's what will happen. 

I think they are getting nervous about OWGR and FedEx Cup is the last hope to get some points for next years majors. 

I'm no lawyer but I have a feeling that Jay and his lawyers might have something up their sleeve. The antitrust court battle is going to be big but I think the biggest challenge facing the PGA tour right now is if the restraining order goes through allowing LIV guys to play in FedEx Cup. If the court holds up the ban, LIV players are going to drop so fast in OWGR that the longer the court battle, the better for the PGA tour.

[Stuka44]

I am glad the lawsuit is here, and I hope the players win.  I'm trying to avoid the politics as directed by the moderators, as best I can.  The PGA's Nonprofit status is continually under question, and does anyone really think the as yet undisclosed amount of money(to the IRS) they gave to China to stop its "golf bashing" all really went to China's "golf program", I would bet on the side of "no"!   I'm just not sure the PGA really occupies the seat two down to the left next to the Holy Spirit.

I'm just not sure the PGA and its aims and objectives are really the wholly altruistic endevour that many think it is. The last number I saw is that 20% of what the PGA makes goes to Charity, and this is great, but that's why many question its "nonprofit/non tax paying status" .  Now I don't know what the numbers are but all professional sprots leagues , their individual teams, and a great many of  their highly paid players, donate to charity, have foundations, and things organizationally, and individually that benefit a myriad of people.

  I'm just not sure why there is the need to "crush and berate" professional golfers for getting paid. Very few people and almost nobody in the media that I am aware of accused Patrick Mahomes, Mike Trout, and Francisco Lindor, figureatively speaking of being "money grubbing, A-holes" for signing their $450, $430, and $330 million dollar contracts respectively.  And are we sure that these players "taking the money" are just going to buy fancy cars, and not use it to do some good with it individually.  I have to admit if one of them donate to a hospital that one day cures one of my grandkids of an illness, am I going to care where the money came from .... as Money Ball said....  "Rocco he gets on base, do I care if its a walk or a hit"  ...."Pete"......"You do not"

Oh and my daughter just sent me a letter Monahan sent to all the PGA players all about transparency, funny it doesn't mention how much they paid china.  PGA Tour is a money grubbing sham!

Edited August 4, 2022 by stuka44

[shootmyage]

this is a very good link about the liv lawsuit , the pga/liv should solve this before going to court .

https://golf.com/news/phil-mickelson-lawsuit-vs-pga-tour-revelations   

[Middler]

27 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I'm just not sure why there is the need to "crush and berate" professional golfers for getting paid. Very few people and almost nobody in the media that I am aware of accused Patrick Mahomes, Mike Trout, and Francisco Lindor, figureatively speaking of being "money grubbing, A-holes" for signing their $450, $430, and $330 million dollar contracts respectively.  

I don't remember seeing anyone who objects to players joining LIV to improve their earnings so the Mahomes et al example is nonsense. The opponents object to who the money is coming from and for what purpose, e.g. sports washing. And it doesn't help that LIV players give every reason in the book for why they joined, instead of just admitting it was for the money first and foremost. They're not fooling anyone...

If it wasn't the outsized Saudi PIF funding LIV, we wouldn't be having this debate.

[RickyBobby_PR]

28 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I am glad the lawsuit is here, and I hope the players win.  I'm trying to avoid the politics as directed by the moderators, as best I can.  The PGA's Nonprofit status is continually under question, and does anyone really think the as yet undisclosed amount of money(to the IRS) they gave to China to stop its "golf bashing" all really went to China's "golf program", I would bet on the side of "no"!   I'm just not sure the PGA really occupies the seat two down to the left next to the Holy Spirit.

I'm just not sure the PGA and its aims and objectives are really the wholly altruistic endevour that many think it is. The last number I saw is that 20% of what the PGA makes goes to Charity, and this is great, but that's why many question its "nonprofit/non tax paying status" .  Now I don't know what the numbers are but all professional sprots leagues , their individual teams, and a great many of  their highly paid players, donate to charity, have foundations, and things organizationally, and individually that benefit a myriad of people.

Those who work for the pga tour have to get paid. No nonprofit gives all the money to charity. The employees, management, c level officers all get paid whatever salary they negotiate for their services.

They also have pay for whatever services they contract out to, marketing and so on.

 

[Golf2Much]

As I understand it, the LIV lawsuit claims that Phil Mickelson was suspended for recruiting players to join him in the LIV circuit.   Ah yeah! 

If I was working at Home Depot and actively recruited select fellow employees to quit and join me at Lowes, I'm sure Home Depot (or any other employer) would do more than just suspend me!

Sometimes I'm just amazed how detached from reality some of pro golfers and other multi-millionaires can be!

[PeterHenric]

17 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The PGA isn’t going anywhere and they haven’t lost anyone that is going to negatively effect their viewership or in person attendance.

The only person that has that effect is Tiger. DJ or the others guys aren’t going to cost an event 20 thousand fans by not being there 

I disagree strongly that they haven't lost anyone that is going to negatively affect their viewership or attendance. DJ, BK, and BD are big draws. To a lesser extent, so is Wolff.  Look at who is in their featured groups every week now that these 3 (among others) are gone. They are featuring guys that I had barely heard of and couldn't pick out of a lineup if I needed to. While the 3 of them may not be at their peak anymore (maybe Dechambeau is other than his injuries), they are still a draw. I used to watch the PGA religiously. Now, I find myself watching the LPGA as much or more. I would easily choose to watch LIV on YouTube over another PGA event.

I know that I don't speak for everyone in how I feel about these guys but you can't say they don't make a difference. NO ONE is Tiger, I know that. But these guys do matter. That's why the PGA is acting like they are. Trying to circle the wagons and point out to the rest of the people on tour how bad those guys are. The PGA is insecure and they know it.

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, PeterHenric said:

I disagree strongly that they haven't lost anyone that is going to negatively affect their viewership or attendance. DJ, BK, and BD are big draws. To a lesser extent, so is Wolff.  Look at who is in their featured groups every week now that these 3 (among others) are gone. They are featuring guys that I had barely heard of and couldn't pick out of a lineup if I needed to. While the 3 of them may not be at their peak anymore (maybe Dechambeau is other than his injuries), they are still a draw. I used to watch the PGA religiously. Now, I find myself watching the LPGA as much or more. I would easily choose to watch LIV on YouTube over another PGA event.

I know that I don't speak for everyone in how I feel about these guys but you can't say they don't make a difference. NO ONE is Tiger, I know that. But these guys do matter. That's why the PGA is acting like they are. Trying to circle the wagons and point out to the rest of the people on tour how bad those guys are. The PGA is insecure and they know it.

I’ve been to events where some of these guys were the only big names. The attendance wasn’t higher than previous years. 
 

Do they draw fans sure, but they aren’t going to cost an event tens of thousands of in person spectators. The events are still going to draw the fans because it’s a pga event. But the chances that DJ, Bryson, Brooks being the only big name at an event is slim. So the in person spectators aren’t going to drop that much with other big names in the field. And no Wolff isn’t a fan drawing person. He is mostly famous because of his swing. He hasn’t done anything on tour since his rookie year. Hovland and Morikawa who came on tour the same year are far bigger names 

Tv viewership isn’t going to lose what they would consider significant numbers when the other big names lie rahm, rory, JT are all there and in contention like they will be most weeks