Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[Middler]

1 hour ago, TBS said:

This type of argument has been discussed at length earlier in the thread. Let's try to keep comments new/fresh and differing perspectives.

Unfortunately this whole thread has become an exercise in beating POVs to death over and over - and bickering. Add new entrants who are just jumping in to “discover” their POV, and it’s tiresome. There’s not much new of significance now, all we can do is see how it plays out over the years ahead. What are the only possibly newsworthy inflections to come besides:

• Major eligibility,
• sponsors moves,
• OWGR or
• several truly current marquee PGA players defecting

I’m not following this thread much anymore - for those who will undoubtedly tell me to just quit reading/posting.

[TBS]

40 minutes ago, Middler said:

Unfortunately this whole thread has become an exercise in beating POVs to death over and over - and bickering. Add new entrants who are just jumping in to “discover” their POV, and it’s tiresome. There’s not much new of significance now, all we can do is see how it plays out over the years ahead. What are the only possibly newsworthy inflections to come besides:

• Major eligibility,
• sponsors moves,
• OWGR or
• several truly current marquee PGA players defecting

I’m not following this thread much anymore - for those who will undoubtedly tell me to just quit reading/posting.

I feel ya. Let's commit to calling out recurring posts. This is a fun topic to talk about but not when its the same arguments for/against constantly.

 

Only thing to add to @Middler's list is

- LIV event coverage

- Player statements on either side

[GaDawg]

7 hours ago, BIG STU said:

From reading some of my feeds honestly one does not know what is true or not. Shots being fired from both sides. And yes like on here and any other social media platforms they are various opinions.

Stu, there is always 3 sides to every story.

[PeterHenric]

5 hours ago, LICC said:

The $1 million is not disappearing by any means. At a minimum after taxes and expenses $1 million would translate into netting $650k.

I’m no CPA but I have no idea how you came up with that number of netting $650k. You’re in the 30+% federal tax rate. Add in state taxes and that could get you close to 40-50% taxes. I don’t know what a caddy makes as far as percentages but I’d guess it would be around 10%?

all of his expenses are tax deductible but they are still expenses. 

[fixyurdivot]

So who else plans to watch the Pumpkin Ridge event?  I missed most of the London YT feed but plan to watch this event so I can get a better perspective on how this format and coverage compares.  

Just poking around the LIV website, I can say that they have lots of improvement opportunity... kind of kludgy and unimpressive. For instance, you need a magnifying glass to read much of the subtext.  When clicking the "watch" link, it takes you too the London event.  Granted the event hasn't yet started (still and hour to go), but at least a "stay tuned" screen would be nice.

 

[MacTourney]

47 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

So who else plans to watch the Pumpkin Ridge event?

Watching now but have no idea what's going on.  LIV website says coverage starts @ 4:00pm EST but there is feed on YouTube as I type and some kind of countdown timer on the screen.  Confusing.

edit...maybe that was first event in London

Edited June 30, 2022 by MacTourney

[CarlH]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

So who else plans to watch the Pumpkin Ridge event? 

 

Honestly, I have no interest in watching the events from LIV at this point, and it has nothing to do with my thoughts on the controversies surrounding the funding or the players themselves.  It just doesn't jack my interest. 

[LICC]

2 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

I’m no CPA but I have no idea how you came up with that number of netting $650k. You’re in the 30+% federal tax rate. Add in state taxes and that could get you close to 40-50% taxes. I don’t know what a caddy makes as far as percentages but I’d guess it would be around 10%?

all of his expenses are tax deductible but they are still expenses. 

That 30%+ is a marginal rate, not effective rate. At that income, less the expense and other deductions, an effective rate would be closer to 25%
 

it varies depending on performance but generally caddies get 5%. 

[fixyurdivot]

52 minutes ago, MacTourney said:

Watching now but have no idea what's going on.  LIV website says coverage starts @ 4:00pm EST but there is feed on YouTube as I type and some kind of countdown timer on the screen.  Confusing.

edit...maybe that was first event in London

It started on the horn - that's weird.  I will say that it is non-stop shot after shot after shot.  I like that you basically see almost every player on the course making shots as they rotate through the field.  I've already seen Na and Poulter go OB; Na just smoking one over the grandstand, and Poult's ball hitting a fan and careening OB . Pumpkin Ridge looks pretty awesome.  It would be fun to see a PGA event played there.  Definitely lots of patrons on the grounds; will be interested to see the gate attendance totals.

I've heard two f-bombs in the first few minutes (player/caddy exchange)... guess they don't care about tape delay .

Don't know for sure, but it looks like PReed may have signed the first LIV logo deal as his hat and shirt are both sporting the logo.  I wonder if that was a contract bonus option? 

The teams for this event are group by nationality which gives it a little RC vibe.

[gavinski91]

Haha yeah I've heard two f-bombs from Wolff's caddie, and the one was really obvious - "that thing came out really f-ing flat!". Commentators noted it but didn't apologize for it at all (fine by me, just used to tv broadcasts where they right away apologize for any profanity).

I really enjoyed the quick segment with DJ from Troy Mullins - a chat about his equipment, shaft weights and swing weights, 9-wood vs 3-iron, etc.

[PeterHenric]

As there are virtually no people playing in the John Deere, all of my golf attention will be on the LIV tournament. I’ve got a round scheduled for this afternoon so I’ll watch when I can but I won’t see the entire thing. 
Watching Phil makes me sad. He has a new look and that is of a drunk homeless person. The scruff is not flattering. 
The actual footage is decent, not the best or the worst. I do not care for the microphone inside the cup. It doesn’t add anything worthwhile to them actually making their putt. It’s gimmicky. 

[MacTourney]

I saw the airborne flag ceremony, but did I catch the announcer's description correctly stating that it was a United States Air Force paratrooper dropping into the LIV event carrying a USA flag?

[fixyurdivot]

19 minutes ago, MacTourney said:

I saw the airborne flag ceremony, but did I catch the announcer's description correctly stating that it was a United States Air Force paratrooper dropping into the LIV event carrying a USA flag?

That's what I saw/heard as well.

24 minutes ago, PeterHenric said:

Watching Phil makes me sad. He has a new look and that is of a drunk homeless person.

That's funny.  Yeah, I'm not sure what prompted the disheveled look but he did say (US Open interview) that "Amy liked it and that it would stay until she didn't".  

[fixyurdivot]

Love those stepped down diameter pins... brilliant design!  A couple of the courses we played last week at the PNW Meet-up had these and I like them.  

One thing about this churn is that we get to see more players getting covered than we might otherwise see... just more golf being played.

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, TBS said:

https://www.golfwrx.com/680317/inside-scoop-heres-how-the-liv-golf-tour-will-handle-on-site-equipment-needs-for-players-at-each-u-s-event/

Here's the link if anyone is curious. I wonder how the golfers feel about it when they are used to multiple equipment trucks. They may not care tbh.

There have allways been a few independant club repair guys on the Tour. When we had the golf shop we used to deal with a couple that were from basically our area.

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, PeterHenric said:

As there are virtually no people playing in the John Deere, all of my golf attention will be on the LIV tournament. I’ve got a round scheduled for this afternoon so I’ll watch when I can but I won’t see the entire thing. 
Watching Phil makes me sad. He has a new look and that is of a drunk homeless person. The scruff is not flattering. 
The actual footage is decent, not the best or the worst. I do not care for the microphone inside the cup. It doesn’t add anything worthwhile to them actually making their putt. It’s gimmicky. 

Someone tell me if I am wrong here--- I do not think any of the Fed EX or Comcast top 10 are even at the Deere. I know in the past for guys that were in The Open they used to charter a jet to fly them to The Open at no charge. I do not know the top player there in the OWGR either

[fixyurdivot]

Interesting commentary from Matt Wolfe saying the 54 hole and team format suits him.  Playing one less round dosen't sound like much but I can see where for a good many that could make a big difference in performance. 

I too didn't think much of the team format but I can see why the players like.  Even if one has a ho-hum round, their score could still be the difference.  That adds another dimension to the event.  Still not completely sold but it might grow on me.

BAD only beat Troy Mullinax by one yard (404 vs. 403) at their informal LD face-off.  208 mph ball speed 

[berkeleybob]

I don’t know. I guess I’m a simple guy. I’ve tried watching LIV on YouTube, and I get pretty confused about what is going on, which hole—as in, how many holes have been played so far—they’re all playing. I like the regular tour format, no matter how long it takes, because it’s linear. Everyone starts at point A and ends at point B.

I’m sure the analogy’s been made, but cutting out the forth round in my book is like running a tennis league where the tournaments are best of 3 instead of 5. How is that better for the spectator, the player or the sport?

Since when was a test of endurance and stamina in professional sports a deal breaker? Put another way, when did guaranteed mediocrity become a good reason to join a league?

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, berkeleybob said:

I’m sure the analogy’s been made, but cutting out the forth round in my book is like running a tennis league where the tournaments are best of 3 instead of 5. How is that better for the spectator, the player or the sport?

It’s huge for the player. It’s less wear ad tear on the body.

On Sunday fly to a city somewhere in the country, check into a hotel, find transportation, pick a hard course and play 18 holes on Monday, then practice for a couple hours, play another 9-18 on Tuesday then practice some more, play 18 more on Wednesday in a pro am, then  practice some more, play 18 holes thur through Sunday and practice after each round. Then do it again the next week and the week after that. One of those weeks you get a Monday where you have to do a corporate sponsor event and hold a clinic then play a hole with every person at the event.

Rinse and repeat for some 5,6,7 weeks in a row or for those who are grinding it out barely making the cut it missing most cuts and they have to do it 3-4 months at a time. This will take its toll on you mentally and physically.

As for the spectator they would get to see a smaller field filled with the biggest names in the sport. While most of these guys are past their prime and don’t have much chance of winning on the pga tour they still can play the game at a high level and that is fun to watch.

For the game that is tbd but it’s still tournament golf at the professional level and it’s not bad thing, it’s different and time will tell if fans like 54 hole tournaments vs 72, not to mention there’s no cut so you get to see these guys play every round 

[berkeleybob]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s huge for the player. It’s less wear ad tear on the body …

I understand the benefit to the player that joins the LIV tour, it’s pretty evident. But the travel and preparation involved, the training, obligations to sponsors—that’s true for any professional player in another sport. 

I don’t know, sports, especially pro sports, has always had a an element of inspiration attached to it. Young folks want to be the next Serena Williams, Roger Federer, LeBron James, Tom Brady, or Tiger Woods.

I don’t think a child learns to say, “When I grow up, I want to be the next Tiger Woods. But with an easier schedule.”

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, berkeleybob said:

I understand the benefit to the player that joins the LIV tour, it’s pretty evident. But the travel and preparation involved, the training, obligations to sponsors—that’s true for any professional player in another sport. 

I don’t know, sports, especially pro sports, has always had a an element of inspiration attached to it. Young folks want to be the next Serena Williams, Roger Federer, LeBron James, Tom Brady, or Tiger Woods.

I don’t think a child learns to say, “When I grow up, I want to be the next Tiger Woods. But with an easier schedule.”

Agree those type of athletes are inspiration to others whether as kids growing up or those already in the sport and where they want to go. But the athletes as they progress in their careers make adjustments to their schedules and reduce the amount of time they spend on the road.

Tiger has always played a reduced schedule and for several years would play roughly the minimum needed. Lebron and other superstars take an entire game off to rest now whereas in the days of Jordan, magic, bird and many others they never took a game off unless hurt and most days played almost the full game every game.

Pro sports have changed and will continue to change. Whether it’s the rules used during play or the length of schedule. In todays game family time is as important for many as is the game itself and these athletes are finding ways to do both. Whether you like or not that’s for each person to decide and whether they will watch, support or not. But pro sports at the end of the day is just entertainment and the level of success for any pro sport, league, team, player is whether than can create a product that will draw in the fans to keep paying for it. The ones that do find success and the ones that don’t fail and go by the wayside.

I don’t care either way and my time spent watching pro or amateur sports has slowly dwindled where I can use 1-2 hands to count the number of games, rounds or even innings of a baseball game I’ve watched in the last 1.5 years 

[fixyurdivot]

17 minutes ago, berkeleybob said:

I don’t think a child learns to say, “When I grow up, I want to be the next Tiger Woods. But with an easier schedule.”

Well, the general workforce has been pushing for a reduced standard work work for decades.  In some parts of the world, this has already happened.  The trick here will be to make sure they are playing when folks are off and can watch - without also looking over their shoulder .

45 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

As for the spectator they would get to see a smaller field filled with the biggest names in the sport. While most of these guys are past their prime and don’t have much chance of winning on the pga tour they still can play the game at a high level and that is fun to watch.

For the game that is tbd but it’s still tournament golf at the professional level and it’s not bad thing, it’s different and time will tell if fans like 54 hole tournaments vs 72, not to mention there’s no cut so you get to see these guys play every roun

Exactly.  I watch and have attended many Champions Tour events and they are still high quality venues and level of play.  I'm interested to see if this no cut format yields any "amazing come-backs". It's not out of the realm of possibility that a player who had a lousy day one cannot put B2B low 60's rounds together.

 

[LICC]

58 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s huge for the player. It’s less wear ad tear on the body.

On Sunday fly to a city somewhere in the country, check into a hotel, find transportation, pick a hard course and play 18 holes on Monday, then practice for a couple hours, play another 9-18 on Tuesday then practice some more, play 18 more on Wednesday in a pro am, then  practice some more, play 18 holes thur through Sunday and practice after each round. Then do it again the next week and the week after that. One of those weeks you get a Monday where you have to do a corporate sponsor event and hold a clinic then play a hole with every person at the event.

Rinse and repeat for some 5,6,7 weeks in a row or for those who are grinding it out barely making the cut it missing most cuts and they have to do it 3-4 months at a time. This will take its toll on you mentally and physically.

As for the spectator they would get to see a smaller field filled with the biggest names in the sport. While most of these guys are past their prime and don’t have much chance of winning on the pga tour they still can play the game at a high level and that is fun to watch.

For the game that is tbd but it’s still tournament golf at the professional level and it’s not bad thing, it’s different and time will tell if fans like 54 hole tournaments vs 72, not to mention there’s no cut so you get to see these guys play every round 

I doubt these guys would play 45-54 holes on the Monday-Wednesday before a tournament. More like 36 total, if they chose to do even that. 

[TBS]

20 minutes ago, LICC said:

I doubt these guys would play 45-54 holes on the Monday-Wednesday before a tournament. More like 36 total, if they chose to do even that. 

Yeah, it looks to be closer to 36. Mon-9 Tues - 9 and Pro/Am 18

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/whats-a-tournament-week-really-like-for-a-pga-tour-pro-billy-horschel

[RickyBobby_PR]

21 minutes ago, LICC said:

I doubt these guys would play 45-54 holes on the Monday-Wednesday before a tournament. More like 36 total, if they chose to do even that. 

 

Just now, TBS said:

Yeah, it looks to be closer to 36. Mon-9 Tues - 9 and Pro/Am 18

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/whats-a-tournament-week-really-like-for-a-pga-tour-pro-billy-horschel

The guys that have played courses multiple times don’t play as many holes, but they also just don’t play a straight 9 holes like malt amateurs. They are on the course playing multiple shots each hole, spending lots of time on the greens putting to different hole locations from different sides of the hole, hitting chips, pitches and bunker shots to those different hole locations.

Then they spend hours practicing. 
 

Guys new in tour are going to spend more time on the course learning the course, taking notes, asking questions of the vets. 
 

Tour life is hard on the body and mind. 
 

i would suggest anyone who hasn’t gone to a tour event on the practice days do so and watch how they prepare. It’s an experience in of itself 

[MGoBlue100]

5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

The guys that have played courses multiple times don’t play as many holes, but they also just don’t play a straight 9 holes like malt amateurs. They are on the course playing multiple shots each hole, spending lots of time on the greens putting to different hole locations from different sides of the hole, hitting chips, pitches and bunker shots to those different hole locations.

Then they spend hours practicing. 
 

Guys new in tour are going to spend more time on the course learning the course, taking notes, asking questions of the vets. 
 

Tour life is hard on the body and mind. 
 

i would suggest anyone who hasn’t gone to a tour event on the practice days do so and watch how they prepare. It’s an experience in of itself 

Practice rounds are the only rounds I care to attend in pro golf.  If you have a player(s) you really want to see, get to a hole where they'll be coming through and you might get 10-20 mins of watching your favorite work around a green complex.  Also typically less people and less hassle all around.

[LICC]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

They are on the course playing multiple shots each hole, spending lots of time on the greens putting to different hole locations from different sides of the hole, hitting chips, pitches and bunker shots to those different hole locations.

Yes, they are playing golf. Which many people love to do. It's not like they are UFC training.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Practice rounds are the only rounds I care to attend in pro golf.  If you have a player(s) you really want to see, get to a hole where they'll be coming through and you might get 10-20 mins of watching you favorite work around a green complex.  Also typically less people and less hassle all around.

They are fun to be at and watch them prep. I like Thu/Fri rounds too because you can find some good groups to follow that have very small if any crowds and you can watch them work their way around the course, hit some amazing shots and so on. I’ve tried to follow Tiger a few times and had to strategically move around the course to get to holes and spots to see him hit different shots because the crowd was too big to follow. I’ve followed groups with Rickie/furyk/Cabrera that started small and grew after a few holes and stopped following. I’ve walked holes with Adam Scott and two nobodies where nobody was following because Tiger and other big names were on the course and had all the attention. 

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Yes, they are playing golf. Which many people love to do. It's not like they are UFC training.

Really shows how little you know and understand. These guys are training in the gym, spending hours on the course and range, sleeping in a different bed every week, traveling from city to city week in and week out. Their swing speeds put alot of wear and tear on the body along with the amount of miles they are waking each week on the course and not all courses are flat and easy layouts.

Like I suggested above go ahead and fly to a new city this week and go thru the same routine the players do, then do it again the week after that and the next 3-4 weeks after that and see how you feel. Meanwhile you won’t have the pressure of trying to make a cut, maintain your ranking on the FedEx cup or owgr. 
 

Yes it’s not the same as a contact sport but nonetheless it’s stress on the body and mind.

[LICC]

37 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Really shows how little you know and understand. These guys are training in the gym, spending hours on the course and range, sleeping in a different bed every week, traveling from city to city week in and week out. Their swing speeds put alot of wear and tear on the body along with the amount of miles they are waking each week on the course and not all courses are flat and easy layouts.

Like I suggested above go ahead and fly to a new city this week and go thru the same routine the players do, then do it again the week after that and the next 3-4 weeks after that and see how you feel. Meanwhile you won’t have the pressure of trying to make a cut, maintain your ranking on the FedEx cup or owgr. 
 

Yes it’s not the same as a contact sport but nonetheless it’s stress on the body and mind.

Playing one fewer round in a LIV event does not affect any gym training, range practice, or travel. Most of these LIV players are signing up for next year to play about the same number of events they would have played for the PGA Tour. Your original point was that cutting out that 4th round is a massive lift of a burden for these guys given all they do for the lead-up to the tournaments, when in reality you are wrong about the Mon-Wed activities of these guys and you are making it sound like practicing extra chipping is so strenuous.

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

They are fun to be at and watch them prep. I like Thu/Fri rounds too because you can find some good groups to follow that have very small if any crowds and you can watch them work their way around the course, hit some amazing shots and so on. I’ve tried to follow Tiger a few times and had to strategically move around the course to get to holes and spots to see him hit different shots because the crowd was too big to follow. I’ve followed groups with Rickie/furyk/Cabrera that started small and grew after a few holes and stopped following. I’ve walked holes with Adam Scott and two nobodies where nobody was following because Tiger and other big names were on the course and had all the attention. 

Really shows how little you know and understand. These guys are training in the gym, spending hours on the course and range, sleeping in a different bed every week, traveling from city to city week in and week out. Their swing speeds put alot of wear and tear on the body along with the amount of miles they are waking each week on the course and not all courses are flat and easy layouts.

Like I suggested above go ahead and fly to a new city this week and go thru the same routine the players do, then do it again the week after that and the next 3-4 weeks after that and see how you feel. Meanwhile you won’t have the pressure of trying to make a cut, maintain your ranking on the FedEx cup or owgr. 
 

Yes it’s not the same as a contact sport but nonetheless it’s stress on the body and mind.

And anyone who does not belive your last sentence should have seen Rory last week. Even though he is in top physical shape when he started melting down you could tell he was physically and mentally broke down. Trust me I know having played golf for a living several different times of my life I know the stress and toll on the mind and body. One of the reasons I do not sweat things too much now. LOL this just reminded me my last Mini Tour event was a co sanctioned event 12 years ago this weekend. I was semi retired from comp then and got talked into coming out of retirement. Ended up winning the Pro division in my age group. Went ahead and basically retired after that and concentrated on my trucking to put back enough money to retire on. Have not played any comps or big money matches since then. And the decision worked basically well for me except the accident part. I did retire pre accident at 62 and was working part time 2 days a week 16 hrs total when I got hurt on the job. Yeah I do not expect a lot from my golf these days because I practice and play when I want to and I am happy