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Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News


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4 hours ago, Undershooter said:

I think it would be a genius move by Monahan if he cut down on the suspension for anyone who renounced LIV and came back.

 

... Many love to heap this all on Monahan's shoulders but it is also the players on the board that are a part of these decisions. I doubt the players would allow or want an immediate re-instatement for the mutineers, especially those that have sued the tour which is also suing the players. 

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25 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Yeah Monahan has to be the bigger MAN, fight fire with fire by offering immediate reinstatement to the PGA tour. 

 

16 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Many love to heap this all on Monaghan's shoulders but it is also the players on the board that are a part of these decisions. I doubt the players would allow or want an immediate re-instatement for the mutineers, especially those that have sued the tour which is also suing the players. 

I'm with @chisag on this.  First, Monaghan may be the public face of the Tour, but he's not making these decisions all on his own, he's not a dictator.  They certainly have a legal team to advise him, along with the players advisory group.  And while it may make good sense to decrease the suspensions for players who want to return, complete elimination of the suspensions should rankle the players who have remained loyal.

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41 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Many love to heap this all on Monahan's shoulders but it is also the players on the board that are a part of these decisions. I doubt the players would allow or want an immediate re-instatement for the mutineers, especially those that have sued the tour which is also suing the players. 

I think Jay has bungled a ton of this, but I do agree that he's not going to be the only one deciding people's punishments. Reducing a 1 year suspension to a couple of months would be a move a strength by the tour IMO. Lets see if they get in defectors at all though. 

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7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Golf is their job. Like most people the work environment and money are going to draw them to new jobs. LIV is offering what they feel is a better work/life balance and getting more money in guaranteed contracts vice having to earn it from week to week. It all makes sense.

 

A big difference is that they went to the 'new company' but still want to participate in the benefits of the old company. More free time or better work balance? Ok I can rationalize that but then why do they want to participate in Tour events outside of LIV? Doesn't that put them back in the same old work life balance. 

To those that left and to Cam Smith who will be leaving - fine go ahead but don't come back. 

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looks like matsuyama will not play memphis , neck problems , if it is really bad he should just wait until east lake , he has enough points to make the top 30  .

if he is still having problems wait for east lake , go to the 1st tee ,  hit a ball then quit , get the $500,000 30th place  and go recoup .

  

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rumor is that the liv events winnings aren’t paid out, they are subtracted from the upfront payment given at signing time. this makes LIV golf not just exhibition golf…winning truly doesn’t matter to these guys, if they’ve already been paid regardless if outcome. i get that some of these guys are big names and deserve some consideration just for showing up, i get it. but if there’s little incentive to compete and win, it’s not big boy pants tournament golf. in my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

 

I'm with @chisag on this.  First, Monaghan may be the public face of the Tour, but he's not making these decisions all on his own, he's not a dictator.  They certainly have a legal team to advise him, along with the players advisory group.  And while it may make good sense to decrease the suspensions for players who want to return, complete elimination of the suspensions should rankle the players who have remained loyal.

I think it would be on a case by case basis. Patrick Reed and Sergio Garcia would probably not be welcomed back with any reduced suspension. But others, especially those who didn’t sue, could be. 

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9 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s pure ignorance on their part if they thought that, and a poor excuse. They were told upfront that if they chose to violate the rules they would face the punishment. If they didn’t believe it then too bad for them. They are adults and should know and understand what their actions are going to be.

I have zero mercy for ignorance as an excuse 

You definitely are overestimating them:

Billy Horschel on @GolfChannel: "I've said to some of the guys personally, I think they've been brainwashed. The way they feel so adamant that they're going to be back on the PGA Tour. I've had some of them tell me, 'I'll see you on Tour again.' I said, 'No you won't.'"

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7 hours ago, LICC said:

I think it would be on a case by case basis. Patrick Reed and Sergio Garcia would probably not be welcomed back with any reduced suspension. But others, especially those who didn’t sue, could be. 

Gooch isn't without fault here. Yes he said he originally only wanted to play one event and be done. However he also has come out and said hey PGA guys you're welcome for us leaving and getting you the bigger payouts for various events. Add in all the others that left after event one knew exactly what they were getting into. 

If they leave they leave, fair enough. However don't expect to just be let back in. Maybe reduce it a bit, however the excuse of them not knowing is just wrong. The bigger issue I imagine is them getting out of their LIV contracts. I have suspicion that those have a lot of points where they are locked in and well and truly screwed if they try to leave early. 

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23 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Gooch isn't without fault here. Yes he said he originally only wanted to play one event and be done. However he also has come out and said hey PGA guys you're welcome for us leaving and getting you the bigger payouts for various events. Add in all the others that left after event one knew exactly what they were getting into. 

If they leave they leave, fair enough. However don't expect to just be let back in. Maybe reduce it a bit, however the excuse of them not knowing is just wrong. The bigger issue I imagine is them getting out of their LIV contracts. I have suspicion that those have a lot of points where they are locked in and well and truly screwed if they try to leave early. 

I compair it to leaving a job under bad circumstances like not working out a notice or doing shoddy work your last week----- Then you find out the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence and you want to come back and you have burned your bridges---- Only job I ever left that I did not give a notice to was a trucking company--- I went to turn in my notice and the Manager told me they did not have a rehire policy---- I told him well good no need for me to work out a notice then and left that day and started my new job 2 weeks earlier---- About 6 months later I got a call from that same Manager wanting to hire me back. I questioned him on the rehire policy. He said they had revised it. I told him that was because they could not keep any drivers. I told him no thanks they had screwed me once and I was not stupid. 6 months later they had lost all of their contracts for failure to deliver on time etc and shut down

Now I am not saying the PGAT screwed anyone. Those guys that left and are now starting trouble have IMHO burned too many bridges. As my old man used to say "you have made your bed now sleep in it". From what I have seen and read those guys would not be welcome back on the PGAT by their peers either. Nothing like a hostile work environment

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1 minute ago, BIG STU said:

I compair it to leaving a job under bad circumstances like not working out a notice or doing shoddy work your last week----- Then you find out the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence and you want to come back and you have burned your bridges---- Only job I ever left that I did not give a notice to was a trucking company--- I went to turn in my notice and the Manager told me they did not have a rehire policy---- I told him well good no need for me to work out a notice then and left that day and started my new job 2 weeks earlier---- About 6 months later I got a call from that same Manager wanting to hire me back. I questioned him on the rehire policy. He said they had revised it. I told him that was because they could not keep any drivers. I told him no thanks they had screwed me once and I was not stupid. 6 months later they had lost all of their contracts for failure to deliver on time etc and shut down

Now I am not saying the PGAT screwed anyone. Those guys that left and are now starting trouble have IMHO burned too many bridges. As my old man used to say "you have made your bed now sleep in it". From what I have seen and read those guys would not be welcome back on the PGAT by their peers either. Nothing like a hostile work environment

Had they not sued I believe it is a completely different story. 

However now that they have it is a whole new ball game. They left for more money and to play less. Now they will still get paid more and likely have to play more to keep points up. Suing the tour isn't so much suing the tour it is going directly at all the players of the tour as it is membership run and that is what I believe will lead to some bad blood. Most the guys didn't necessarily like that they left, but at least understood it was a chance for many to make more money and to play for that. Others who cared more about legacy and such stayed on and mostly separated the groups, however not a whole lot of bad blood. Now this action is where things start to get muddy and I would imagine tensions build. 

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27 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Had they not sued I believe it is a completely different story. 

However now that they have it is a whole new ball game. They left for more money and to play less. Now they will still get paid more and likely have to play more to keep points up. Suing the tour isn't so much suing the tour it is going directly at all the players of the tour as it is membership run and that is what I believe will lead to some bad blood. Most the guys didn't necessarily like that they left, but at least understood it was a chance for many to make more money and to play for that. Others who cared more about legacy and such stayed on and mostly separated the groups, however not a whole lot of bad blood. Now this action is where things start to get muddy and I would imagine tensions build. 

Oh yes the lawsuit was the line in the sand so to speak. Lucas Glover for one said he did not care if the guys left for more money and that was their choice. Now they have basically slapped the other members in the face with the lawsuit. He further stated if they had won their lawsuit that there would have been a cold reception among the PGAT players. I could have seen it getting nasty in a hurry if they had won and played. Coughing or yelling in the backswing and heckling etc. I bet they may have had to use a security detail that would rival the president's. Hate to say this but it could have went as far as death threats etc. Like Rory said now we can get on with the playoffs and I agree. 

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Can you imagine putting just one of these guys who have signed future contracts with LIV with one of the players who have strongly opposed LIV such as Billy Horschel. Keep the hot mics rolling! These guys were alienated during the British open playing in their own group which made it easier for them. Let it be known to these guys that their not welcome and bring a little tension out. Half the time most of these players even talk about how they are still friends with these guys but don’t talk about golf decisions anymore…

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The folks who resigned from the Tour—do they have an easier way back in, should they want it?

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4 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

The bigger issue I imagine is them getting out of their LIV contracts. I have suspicion that those have a lot of points where they are locked in and well and truly screwed if they try to leave early. 

Now that would be irony- a player who wasn’t troublesome and didn’t sue wants to leave LIV and come back, the Tour is willing to take them back with some type of reduced suspension, and LIV forces them to not be able to play on the PGA Tour.  The PGA Tour would be able to use that for PR and in the antitrust lawsuit. 

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3 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Oh yes the lawsuit was the line in the sand so to speak. Lucas Glover for one said he did not care if the guys left for more money and that was their choice. Now they have basically slapped the other members in the face with the lawsuit. He further stated if they had won their lawsuit that there would have been a cold reception among the PGAT players. I could have seen it getting nasty in a hurry if they had won and played. Coughing or yelling in the backswing and heckling etc. I bet they may have had to use a security detail that would rival the president's. Hate to say this but it could have went as far as death threats etc. Like Rory said now we can get on with the playoffs and I agree. 

The lawsuit has not been decided, the judge just refused the request for a TRO that three LIV jerks wanted to allow them to play this years FedEx. I hope we can enjoy the next three weeks of FedEx without so much LIV nonsense.

I hope LIV and the PGA are kept entirely separate. LIV can play and grow their events, and the PGA can play and grow their events including the majors (that wouldn't exist without generations of PGA players). I hope they never play together, one or the other, not both. If LIV is successful long term, they can develop their own "majors" or marquee events.

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8 hours ago, LICC said:

You definitely are overestimating them:

Billy Horschel on @GolfChannel: "I've said to some of the guys personally, I think they've been brainwashed. The way they feel so adamant that they're going to be back on the PGA Tour. I've had some of them tell me, 'I'll see you on Tour again.' I said, 'No you won't.'"

They guys that left had Greg Norman telling them that the Tour could not keep them out.  Billy has the Tour telling him that the Tour can and will keep them out.  Both Norman and the Tour have a legion of lawyers backing them up.  Each player chooses what to believe, but none of them know what the final result will be.  It seems foolish to me to believe Norman's claims, but its possible he'll end up being right after the final verdicts are in.

This isn't much different from the politics of today, each side can listen to news and opinions that backs up their own beliefs, but neither side really knows the eventual outcome.

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9 hours ago, LICC said:

You definitely are overestimating them:

Billy Horschel on @GolfChannel: "I've said to some of the guys personally, I think they've been brainwashed. The way they feel so adamant that they're going to be back on the PGA Tour. I've had some of them tell me, 'I'll see you on Tour again.' I said, 'No you won't.'"

Again that proves their ignorance. 

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21 hours ago, Undershooter said:

They would have to apply for reinstatement and either serve their suspension or request a hearing for a shorter length/ dismissal of it. I think it would be a genius move by Monahan if he cut down on the suspension for anyone who renounced LIV and came back. Who knows if that would actually happen or not though.

There are also former college players who were never PGA Tour members. Can’t be banned from something you were never a member of to begin with. They’ll have options to play Asian Tour events, which have OWGR points awarded, and build status that way, which is sort of the “old fashioned” way to do it, eh?  Probably no forthcoming sponsors exemptions for those guys, but them’s the breaks when you’ve got a couple million in the bank to travel and play golf. 

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i think the tour would have never increased the payouts as much as they have if the liv had never happened ., the tour is for sure taking great care of the best players , not so much for the avg players , if a player makes the 72 cut and finishes in the middle ( 36 ) he gets around 60k , of he comes in at 72 he gets around 20k , after taxes and other costs not that much left .

i can see liv buying 7 or 8 of the good tour players before the end of the year, they do have deep pockets , also every year getting at least 7 or 8 good players from the tour or other tours ..

the only way this mess can be fixed is both side talking to each other , if not golf will suffer a lot and the only winners  will be the lawyers , 

i would have both pga/liv put up 5 players each to have meetings and fix this mess , the none players on both sides do not care as much for the golf tours/players as they do about their jobs , if they did this would have solved it 2 months ago , now it's just a p****** contest .

i would put tiger to be the leader of the pga people and phil for the liv people .

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11 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

There are also former college players who were never PGA Tour members. Can’t be banned from something you were never a member of to begin with. They’ll have options to play Asian Tour events, which have OWGR points awarded, and build status that way, which is sort of the “old fashioned” way to do it, eh?  Probably no forthcoming sponsors exemptions for those guys, but them’s the breaks when you’ve got a couple million in the bank to travel and play golf. 

If you're suggesting post college players can play LIV, build OWGR points on the Asian tour and then play PGA events, you're mistaken.

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How so? If they gain OWGR points through the Asian Tour, and then move to a different tour, how is that different than any other player from years past? Why also would they be barred from playing on the European Challenge Tour etc if they can qualify through normal channels? If PGA Tour, DP World Tour etc bar those players because they previously played in LIV Tour events, then it would seem there is a REAL antitrust case.  

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5 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

How so? If they gain OWGR points through the Asian Tour, and then move to a different tour, how is that different than any other player from years past? Why also would they be barred from playing on the European Challenge Tour etc if they can qualify through normal channels? If PGA Tour, DP World Tour etc bar those players because they previously played in LIV Tour events, then it would seem there is a REAL antitrust case.  

I agree, PGA Tour discipline can only reasonably be applied to PGA Tour members.  I can see requirements being added for future PGA Tour aspirants so that current LIV tour members are excluded, but if a player's "contract" with LIV has expired, they should be treated the same as any other player who wants to qualify for the Tour.  

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30 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

How so? If they gain OWGR points through the Asian Tour, and then move to a different tour, how is that different than any other player from years past? Why also would they be barred from playing on the European Challenge Tour etc if they can qualify through normal channels? If PGA Tour, DP World Tour etc bar those players because they previously played in LIV Tour events, then it would seem there is a REAL antitrust case.  

If they join the PGA Tour in the manner you suggest, they would have to then give up LIV, the Asian Tour and most other tournaments (they might get three exemptions, but I doubt any would be for LIV events). There may well be changes as a result of competition from LIV, but that hasn't happened yet. Most people are barred from working full time for one company and another company (esp a competitor) as well, it's not that unusual - is that an antitrust case in your view?

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For instance, the PGA Tour strictly forbids pro golfers from teeing off in North American tournaments that occur at the same time as the PGA’s own, which consume 45 weeks of the year. Golfers can only play in international tournaments with a waiver from Commissioner Jay Monahan, who generally hands out just three per player per year. These often come with strings attached, like obligations to play in specific U.S. events in the future.

 

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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

They guys that left had Greg Norman telling them that the Tour could not keep them out.  Billy has the Tour telling him that the Tour can and will keep them out.  Both Norman and the Tour have a legion of lawyers backing them up.  Each player chooses what to believe, but none of them know what the final result will be.  It seems foolish to me to believe Norman's claims, but its possible he'll end up being right after the final verdicts are in.

This isn't much different from the politics of today, each side can listen to news and opinions that backs up their own beliefs, but neither side really knows the eventual outcome.

If you looked at the text messages with Sergio, it seems Norman was telling them that they wouldn't be banned from the PGA Tour at all, not now or down the road.

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2 minutes ago, Middler said:

Norman was adamant that the PGA Tour did not have the legal standing to issue a ban. 

“If you have names I can reach out to them,” he texted. “In regards to the Tour if they were going to ban players they would have already. They know they cannot hence no action outside of verbal threats. If you can get them or any player threatened to get it [in writing] fantastic. Thanks.” ...

Six days after the initial exchange, Garcia informed Norman that the “Tour has told our managers this week that whoever signs with the League, is ban[ned] from the Tour for life! I don’t know how are we gonna get enough good players to join the League under [these] conditions. What do you think.” 

Norman again assured Garcia that this would not be legally possible. 

“They cannot ban you for one day let alone life,” Norman texted. “It is a shallow threat. Ask them to put it in writing to you or any player. I bet they don’t. Happy for anyone to speak with our legal team to better understand they have no chance of enforcing.” 

---

Norman is a buffoon and the players believed him.

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