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16 minutes ago, LICC said:

That is a horribly false moral equivalency. Buying basic products that you probably don't know where they were made, and don't have many other options, is in no way equivalent to joining a high-profile public greenwashing league and taking multi-millions of dollars from its benefactors.

Ignorance is a terrible defense. 

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7 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Ignorance is a terrible defense. 

As is washing your hands with a false moral equivalency.

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23 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

People have options they just choose the easy route. If anyone doesn’t know that the vast majority of products they use on a daily basis come from China and other counties with various ethical issues they are just being ignorant. Manufacturing has been overseas for decades at this point.

Nearly everyone on this site is using devices to post that come from China. Also using equipment for a sport they like that comes from there too.

Yup.  Remember the Nike "sweat shops" uproar?  Tiger renewed his contract with Phil for even BIGGER $$$ after this was outed; should he have been scorned in the court of public opinion over that decision?  History is littered with dirty money.  It's also littered with multiple sets of rules and standards that are, depending who is involved, not always applied uniformly.

 

2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I agree that the Tour will make it difficult but from what I understand if/when it gets to court the tour will have a very tough time due to antitrust laws. 

Recently read an article (unable to locate it again) that delves into this and it does make it sound like the PGA is on shaky ground depending on actions they take.  Best I could tell, the author was not connected to the PGA or LIV in anyway but worked in anti-trust law.

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Enough of the cloak and dagger sh** and just announce who's playing already and let's get on with it.

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5 minutes ago, 03trdblack said:

Enough of the cloak and dagger sh** and just announce who's playing already and let's get on with it.

I don’t think they know that her based on what I read. Invites havnet gone out for the events yet. Might be misreading that 

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I am one of the people that slows down to look at a car accident. I will be looking forward to see who's playing in these golf events. Actually hoping some of the higher ranked golfers test the water against the tour.

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On 3/17/2022 at 1:38 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

The moral defense is so over done and disgusting. If you want to go down that road you'll find that almost everything we do, use, consume etc. on a daily basis is attached to a country with questionable background. My guess is we are using equipment made in China to discuss this, China is just slightly higher on the list than Saudi.  I understand that people don't want this league to succeed but to use the moral clause like Eamon Lynch has been doing and apparently the NLU guys makes no sense to me. 

 

That's pretty hard to argue with.

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Except it's the Saudi government creating and selling a product to help their image (i.e. sport washing) not just another company making a product to compete in the free market (cutting cost any way possible to increase profitability). 

I would just like the players to come out and say they are doing it for the money and not try to act like this group is going to create a better golf product or "grow the game". 

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9 hours ago, TBS said:

Except it's the Saudi government creating and selling a product to help their image (i.e. sport washing) not just another company making a product to compete in the free market (cutting cost any way possible to increase profitability). 

I would just like the players to come out and say they are doing it for the money and not try to act like this group is going to create a better golf product or "grow the game". 

Everyone who plays golf professionally is doing it for the money. I have no doubt that most golfers would like the game to grow so it puts more money in their pocket down the road. It appears that the PGA has denied the players their requested permission to play in the 1st LIV event. Personally, I hope the PGA Tour has legal action taken against them. What would stop them from advising current PGA players/members that they cannot play in any European Tour events in the future? To me it's just a pissing match between Jay Monahan and Greg Norman.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tour-denies-players-permission-221303549.html

Edited by GaDawg
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47 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Everyone who plays golf professionally is doing it for the money. I have no doubt that most golfers would like the game to grow so it puts more money in their pocket down the road. It appears that the PGA has denied the players their requested permission to play in the 1st LIV event. Personally, I hope the PGA Tour has legal action taken against them. What would stop them from advising current PGA players/members that they cannot play in any European Tour events in the future? To me it's just a pissing match between Jay Monahan and Greg Norman.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tour-denies-players-permission-221303549.html

Someone will file a lawsuit .. not sure how it will go but usually how it ends up … def feels like a pissing match though 

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I’d like to see the names of all the players who had an agreement. I remember ready it was 15 players in the top 100.  It’s really a lose lose for the tour. If they lose big names and LIV takes off it will be a slow decline and defection of more top players. If it’s even a mild success you may see the younger players who are up and coming jump for the chance at a big payday, which down the road will hurt the tours overall product. Competition is good for the viewers and markets but it hurts the singular product 

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As I’ve mentioned in the past regarding this league, I just don’t expect it to be much fun to watch if players have already signed contracts for guaranteed money. Yeah, they can a WHOLE lot more, but I just don’t see it being knock-down-drag-out, NEEDING to win to keep a card, etc. Meh. I haven’t seen a single name that would make me choose this over the PGA if they were on TV at the same time.

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1 hour ago, GaDawg said:

Everyone who plays golf professionally is doing it for the money. I have no doubt that most golfers would like the game to grow so it puts more money in their pocket down the road. It appears that the PGA has denied the players their requested permission to play in the 1st LIV event. Personally, I hope the PGA Tour has legal action taken against them. What would stop them from advising current PGA players/members that they cannot play in any European Tour events in the future? To me it's just a pissing match between Jay Monahan and Greg Norman.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tour-denies-players-permission-221303549.html

The exemption to play on competing events has always been there, the players know this and that it can be denied. In my non lawyer experience legal action would be futile. The league has the ability to determine when and to who they give exceptions to. Whether it’s a pissing match between Norman and the tour or not, they have the authority to deny any request for whatever reason the determine 

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On 5/10/2022 at 8:32 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

The exemption to play on competing events has always been there, the players know this and that it can be denied. In my non lawyer experience legal action would be futile. The league has the ability to determine when and to who they give exceptions to. Whether it’s a pissing match between Norman and the tour or not, they have the authority to deny any request for whatever reason the determine 

That authority has never been tested in court.  The attorneys that I know including one who teaches contract law at a respected law school and was formerly a contract negotiator between several fortune 500 companies and unions have said that this is a battle that could go either way.  I have a number of high powered attorneys in my congregation two of whom specialize in this type of law. In both of their opinions it's not a slam dunk for either party and it won't be over after the first go round because there are a number of legal avenues for each side to explore.  And that's just with the tours involved.  What happens if a popular player plays in a LIV event is subsequently suspended by the PGA tour but is scheduled to play in a regular tour event that has sold lots of tickets based on that player's appearance?  Say he's a former winner with local ties to the tournament beyond that.  What if the event decides to offer said player a sponsor's exemption?

 

This whole thing is a bit messy and will take time to sort out.  In the meantime I watch more Euro events live because my afternoon viewing opportunities are extremely limited.

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Norman’s comments are not helping win the PR battle.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weve-all-made-mistakes-greg-normans-gaffe-over-killing-of-saudi-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-p3vv0g88r

Look, we’ve all made mistakes and you just want to learn from those mistakes and how you can correct them going forward.

 

I don’t look back. I don’t look into the politics of things. 

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23 hours ago, KC Golf said:


Norman’s comments are not helping win the PR battle.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weve-all-made-mistakes-greg-normans-gaffe-over-killing-of-saudi-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-p3vv0g88r

Look, we’ve all made mistakes and you just want to learn from those mistakes and how you can correct them going forward.

 

I don’t look back. I don’t look into the politics of things. 

The interview actually got worse... Grow the game lol

"The Q&A did indeed move on, to the topic of Saudi Arabia’s treatment of the LGBTQ+ community. “I’m not sure whether I even have any gay friends, to be honest with you,” he said." 

https://www.thewrap.com/greg-norman-ceo-saudi-liv-golf-jamal-khashoggi/

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On 5/12/2022 at 7:14 AM, revkev said:

That authority has never been tested in court.  The attorneys that I know including one who teaches contract law at a respected law school and was formerly a contract negotiator between several fortune 500 companies and unions have said that this is a battle that could go either way.  I have a number of high powered attorneys in my congregation two of whom specialize in this type of law. In both of their opinions it's not a slam dunk for either party and it won't be over after the first go round because there are a number of legal avenues for each side to explore.  And that's just with the tours involved.  What happens if a popular player plays in a LIV event is subsequently suspended by the PGA tour but is scheduled to play in a regular tour event that has sold lots of tickets based on that player's appearance?  Say he's a former winner with local ties to the tournament beyond that.  What if the event decides to offer said player a sponsor's exemption?

 

This whole thing is a bit messy and will take time to sort out.  In the meantime I watch more Euro events live because my afternoon viewing opportunities are extremely limited.

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I wish they’d quit talking and get rolling - so we can flush out the money grabbers and watch read about the train wreck sooner rather than later. I don’t watch any tournaments aside from PGA and some LPGA. I can add LIV to the list of Champions Tour, Korn Ferry, European and Asian golf that I never watch…

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I must be the only one that doesn't care??? A new professional league?... cool! Will it succeed? I guess we'll see. 

Politics aside... I see nothing wrong with another professional tour. If it wasn't Saudi, would it be as big a deal???

 

 

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On 5/10/2022 at 10:17 AM, TBS said:

Except it's the Saudi government creating and selling a product to help their image (i.e. sport washing) not just another company making a product to compete in the free market (cutting cost any way possible to increase profitability). 

I would just like the players to come out and say they are doing it for the money and not try to act like this group is going to create a better golf product or "grow the game". 

I can't stand when Norman or Phil say that this new league is for the good of the game of golf. So disingenuous and fake righteousness. They are doing it for their own power and money. This new league does nothing to improve the game.

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