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Liv Golf Central Thread: No Politics


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22 minutes ago, Peaksy68 said:

Please don’t take this as pontificating, but I’m actually able to comment from a personal perspective about turning down Saudi money.

About 25 years ago I was offered huge money to work in Saudi Arabia. About 50% more than I was earning at the time, but tax free, accommodation covered, return flights to Australia and multiple flights to Europe. They even were going to find a solid job for my wife. 
 

I turned it down, as I personally didn’t want to put my wife in a position where she was basically going to be locked up in the expat compound unless she went outside with me or another male, along with other issues around the treatment of women.

Would my life be easier financially now if I’d taken the job? Maybe, but I made an informed decision.

I wonder how many of those who have signed with LIV have actually had a look at the big picture or thought only of them selves (obviously it’s they’re right to do that)

I just wish that they’d drop the “growing the game” bullsh1t, be honest, it’s about the cash. Steph Curry is doing more to grow the game of golf than most of these guys.

Very true. Greed is evil. Ethics ad morals are lost because of greed.

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I guessed DeChambeau went to LIV to escape Koepka.  May have to re-think that.

I don't have anything useful to add to the discussion other than to wonder how many golf fans are like me:  I don't watch the senior tour because it's 54 holes and no cut, making the tournaments seem like mere exhibitions.  Sorta of like Shell's Wonderful World of Golf with more golfers.  If LIV becomes 18 hole tournaments with cuts then I may watch.

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I realize that the thread contains “No Politics” in the title but the sole reason for LIV Golf is politics. I think we must remain cognizant of the fact this tour exists not because the Saudis love the game or wish to advance the game inasmuch as the game helps improve their image on the world stage. The league is not financially viable other than the fact that those who run it have access to an incredible amount of wealth to back it and sponsorships and broadcasting deals are not required to fund the appearance fees and prize pools.
The golfers certainly have the right to play where they wish but the PGA Tour also has the right to to place rules around it’s membership. I do wish the players though were more honest about why they are joining LIV, just say they are paying me a ton of money to work less hours under less pressure to perform. It’s insulting when they say, it’s growing the game and “I’ve seen women eating in restaurants so the things are improving in Saudi Arabia”. I won’t conflate doing business with Saudi Arabia due to national security interests with doing business with Saudi Arabia to play a game.

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So explain to me why Jay has announced an increase of $90,000,000 "90 million" in prize money when previously there wasn't any more money in the cupboard, so all those players left on the PGA tour should thank all the Liv players for their astronomical pay rise...

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18 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

John 8:7

“When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’”
 

Nobody here should judge another person for what they do or why they do it regardless if it’s an athlete who is doing something you don’t believe is right or not or if it’s another member and whatever choice they make. Way too many on the internet ride their high horse behind keyboards 

Great reference and very true

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11 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

So explain to me why Jay has announced an increase of $90,000,000 "90 million" in prize money when previously there wasn't any more money in the cupboard, so all those players left on the PGA tour should thank all the Liv players for their astronomical pay rise...

There are some reports out there that this increase was always planned for, just not this quickly. Covid season had a lot to do with that and breaking into the funds they wanted to use for it. Eventual plan according to reports is to have most of these high profile events at 25 Million pots. 

I'm not going to say the PGA played this correctly, but I'm still going to side with them. The only player I'm sad to see go is Brooks. I'm hopeful that this exile of others will lead to more tour cards and opportunities for younger talent to come up and get the opportunity on tour. 

I watched a bit of LIV, very meh and highly unlikely I tune in again. 

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17 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

So explain to me why Jay has announced an increase of $90,000,000 "90 million" in prize money when previously there wasn't any more money in the cupboard, so all those players left on the PGA tour should thank all the Liv players for their astronomical pay rise...

Do not know if you or anyone else noticed this week--- The LPGA really boosted the money for the KPMG event this week. Well maybe it was not the LPGA but KPMG. Which I guess their advertising budget increased or had a slurplus since they dropped Phil

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I watched a bit of LIV, very meh and highly unlikely I tune in again. 

Well the best thing about Liv for me was no advertising, I hate paying a premium for skysport and still watching advertising like FREE to air channels. I only watch 2ish hours so 3days worth is ok for me, abit bored watching too much golf anymore...

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2 hours ago, Bang60 said:

So explain to me why Jay has announced an increase of $90,000,000 "90 million" in prize money when previously there wasn't any more money in the cupboard, so all those players left on the PGA tour should thank all the Liv players for their astronomical pay rise...

The new structure helps the top 50-70 players and is worse for the lower ranked players. It may even negatively affect the other tours that are part of the PGA Tour. LIV has forced a shifting of resources to the top players at the expense of others. This was one of the reasons the PGA Tour hadn’t done this before- to not hurt the rank and file members. Guys like Mickelson and Norman wanted bigger shares of the pie and didn’t care about those lower ranked players or affiliated tours. 

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2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Great reference and very true

I don’t think being against stoning a woman to death for adultery is quite the relevant comparison …

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40 minutes ago, LICC said:

I don’t think being against stoning a woman to death for adultery is quite the relevant comparison …

I liked the Bible Verse and I do not think you get the general gist of what the verse is referring to. And before you start on me no I am not going to explain it to you because it would be a borderline infraction of forum rules

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bang60 said:

So explain to me why Jay has announced an increase of $90,000,000 "90 million" in prize money when previously there wasn't any more money in the cupboard, so all those players left on the PGA tour should thank all the Liv players for their astronomical pay rise...

In yesterdays press conference, Monaghan said many big sponsors came to him and said what can we do to help? Sponsors are mostly the money behind the tour, so it stands to reason they may be ponying up more money. But we can’t argue with LIV being the catalyst for the increase in PGA purses.

Again what a sad, tiresome (IMO) situation. A established sports league under serious attack for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with the sport itself…all the players are pawns in an ugly political game.

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13 minutes ago, Middler said:

In yesterdays press conference, Monaghan said many big sponsors came to him and said what can we do to help? Sponsors are mostly the money behind the tour, so it stands to reason they may be ponying up more money. But we can’t argue with LIV being the catalyst for the increase in PGA purses.

Again what a sad, tiresome (IMO) situation. A established sports league under serious attack for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with the sport itself…all the players are pawns in an ugly political game.

“From Golf Digest: All-in” for the tour when it comes to financials shows just how formidable the cash advantage is for LIV. Monahan announced $45 million in purse “enhancements” for next season—or, about half of what LIV reportedly paid Bryson DeChambeau. If a player has a price, LIV can pay it. And even if the new plan works exactly as planned and boosts the take-home for players like Scheffler, McIlroy and Justin Thomas, it mostly means many of the same chips have simply been shifted away from the middle class and those trying to break through from the Korn Ferry Tour or beyond,” 

Hopefully you are right and increased sponsor money covers most of this. But the changes to the schedule help some and hurt others:

“If it sounds like life just got tougher for mid-tier players, non-winners and young players trying to break in from the minor leagues, you heard the same thing many players did. “How are Korn Ferry players supposed to get access?” one current tour player who is currently in the 51-to-125 category asked in a conversation with Golf Digest. “They could have increased the purses and just kept the schedule the way it was. The tour is more than just 15 guys.” Another player currently outside the top 125 said the plan could be an extinction event for many players who had consistently finished in the 75-to-125 range, with so many more players going to war in the shorter span of that fall status-setting season.”

I do think the changes are good for golf fans, as more events will have most of the top players which is fun to watch. 

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40 minutes ago, LICC said:

 

“If it sounds like life just got tougher for mid-tier players, non-winners and young players trying to break in from the minor leagues, you heard the same thing many players did. “How are Korn Ferry players supposed to get access?” one current tour player who is currently in the 51-to-125 category asked in a conversation with Golf Digest. “They could have increased the purses and just kept the schedule the way it was. The tour is more than just 15 guys.” Another player currently outside the top 125 said the plan could be an extinction event for many players who had consistently finished in the 75-to-125 range, with so many more players going to war in the shorter span of that fall status-setting season.”

Could be exactly what the LIV tour wants.  I have always thought that the long term success of the LIV will fall to the up and comers.  As the PGA tour potentially pushes them aside with these big money top 50 events the LIV tour can potentially poach the future of the PGA tour with smaller guaranteed salaries.  

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9 hours ago, MattWillGolf said:

I realize that the thread contains “No Politics” in the title but the sole reason for LIV Golf is politics. I think we must remain cognizant of the fact this tour exists not because the Saudis love the game or wish to advance the game inasmuch as the game helps improve their image on the world stage. The league is not financially viable other than the fact that those who run it have access to an incredible amount of wealth to back it and sponsorships and broadcasting deals are not required to fund the appearance fees and prize pools.
The golfers certainly have the right to play where they wish but the PGA Tour also has the right to to place rules around it’s membership. I do wish the players though were more honest about why they are joining LIV, just say they are paying me a ton of money to work less hours under less pressure to perform. It’s insulting when they say, it’s growing the game and “I’ve seen women eating in restaurants so the things are improving in Saudi Arabia”. I won’t conflate doing business with Saudi Arabia due to national security interests with doing business with Saudi Arabia to play a game.

I agree with that and also wish those against LIV wouldn't equate the players who went there to everything bad that any Saudi citizen has ever done. That strong handed tactic moved me from being neutral / leaning toward the PGA on the topic to actively hoping that LIV produces some good golf content. 

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5 hours ago, Bang60 said:

So explain to me why Jay has announced an increase of $90,000,000 "90 million" in prize money when previously there wasn't any more money in the cupboard, so all those players left on the PGA tour should thank all the Liv players for their astronomical pay rise...

Pretty sure, some of this is the TV deals that have been in the works for the past few years and his ability to get additional sponsor $$. My assumption is that sponsors will be willing to give more for PGA events to avoid a LIV/Saudi takeover.

One of the toughest things he has done has been to commit that legal costs will come from the PGA pension fund. I imagine this will really start causing a stir.

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48 minutes ago, Ohms said:

I agree with that and also wish those against LIV wouldn't equate the players who went there to everything bad that any Saudi citizen has ever done. That strong handed tactic moved me from being neutral / leaning toward the PGA on the topic to actively hoping that LIV produces some good golf content. 

This is exactly why sportswashing works so well.

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1 hour ago, Ohms said:

I agree with that and also wish those against LIV wouldn't equate the players who went there to everything bad that any Saudi citizen has ever done. That strong handed tactic moved me from being neutral / leaning toward the PGA on the topic to actively hoping that LIV produces some good golf content. 

No one is equating the LIV players to the worst of the Saudis committing atrocities. People are equating the LIV players to being sell-out stooges for the Saudis that are committing the atrocities.

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Could be exactly what the LIV tour wants.  I have always thought that the long term success of the LIV will fall to the up and comers.  As the PGA tour potentially pushes them aside with these big money top 50 events the LIV tour can potentially poach the future of the PGA tour with smaller guaranteed salaries.  

I think LIV wants to damage the PGA Tour and become a major entity in world golf mainly for sportswashing, however it happens.

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