Jump to content

OB Stake- another logically inconsistent rule


Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, LICC said:

You can take relief from a Penalty Area stake but not an Out of Bounds stake. Another silly inconsistent rule. 
 

https://golf.com/instruction/rules/that-make-much-sense-justin-thomas-debates-official/

Did we not have this same discussion last year to an extent with the 2 stroke or going back to the tee box rule? 

I won't deny there are rules that are silly or inconsistent in golf, there are in most if not all sports. However I do remember that thread getting a little or a lot heated and very much on the line and want to make sure we don't go down that same road/path again. 

In the end the rules are what they are, kinda a crappy excuse however I'm sure at some point in time there was a logical point to it being there. Example being we had houses on the course I played at and there were new OB stakes put in to entice players to play away from that and causing damage to property while most the rest of the course was red staked. To me that made sense, however maybe it could be course specific?

  • Like 4

 ⛳🛄 as of Sept 7, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero - Set at 9.5* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not raising the OB penalty issue here. In this case, the ball is not OB but an OB fence (or hypothetically just a stake) is in the way of the swing. Why can’t you take the two-club distance relief like you could if it was a Penalty Area stake?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don’t put it in crap areas I say…..

  • Love 2
  • Haha 2

Check out my reviews:

:ping-small:  G710 Irons Official Review

:Fuji: MC Shaft & :EVNROLL: V Series Putter Official Review

WITB:

:ping-small: Traverse is filled with all this shiny metal and tracked by :Arccos:

:cobra-small: RadSpeed 8* - MotoreX F1 6X

:taylormade-small: SIM 3W - Project X HZRDUS Green

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 4H - Project X HZRDUS Black

:taylormade-small: 2019 P790 4-PW - Project X 6.5 LZ

:titelist-small: 48 (SM8), 52, 56, 60 (SM7) - Nippon Modus 125 S 

:EVNROLL: ER2VI :titelist-small: PROV1X #19 

🇺🇸Thank you to all those that have served/are serving and God Bless America 🇺🇸

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, LICC said:

I’m not raising the OB penalty issue here. In this case, the ball is not OB but an OB fence (or hypothetically just a stake) is in the way of the swing. Why can’t you take the two-club distance relief like you could if it was a Penalty Area stake?

You cannot take that type of relief from a Penalty Area stake.  You may move Moveable Obstructions in a Penalty Area, or OB.  You do not get relief from Immoveable Obstructions when they're in a Penalty Area, nor when they're not on the  golf course.  It seems pretty consistent to me.  The ONLY dissimilarity is that you may not move an OB stake, which makes sense since we don't want them accidentally moved between one player and the next.

The more I learn about the rules, the more impressed  I am with how consistent they really are.  The 2019 edition made more strides in this area, and I'd bet that the Ruling Bodies are hard at work these days tweaking them so the 2023 edition is even better.

  • Like 8

:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

You cannot take that type of relief from a Penalty Area stake.  You may move Moveable Obstructions in a Penalty Area, or OB.  You do not get relief from Immoveable Obstructions when they're in a Penalty Area, nor when they're not on the  golf course.  It seems pretty consistent to me.  The ONLY dissimilarity is that you may not move an OB stake, which makes sense since we don't want them accidentally moved between one player and the next.

The more I learn about the rules, the more impressed  I am with how consistent they really are.  The 2019 edition made more strides in this area, and I'd bet that the Ruling Bodies are hard at work these days tweaking them so the 2023 edition is even better.

So, what your saying is… if they use the really flimsy Stakes or 1/2” pine is to just swing really hard and take the whole thing with you?  It wouldn’t be in the way any more… 🙃

  • Love 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shankster said:

So, what your saying is… if they use the really flimsy Stakes or 1/2” pine is to just swing really hard and take the whole thing with you?  It wouldn’t be in the way any more… 🙃

Rule 19a.1 “stakes are to be constructed of rebar to prevent chopping down of stakes”

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
  • Hmmm 1

Check out my reviews:

:ping-small:  G710 Irons Official Review

:Fuji: MC Shaft & :EVNROLL: V Series Putter Official Review

WITB:

:ping-small: Traverse is filled with all this shiny metal and tracked by :Arccos:

:cobra-small: RadSpeed 8* - MotoreX F1 6X

:taylormade-small: SIM 3W - Project X HZRDUS Green

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 4H - Project X HZRDUS Black

:taylormade-small: 2019 P790 4-PW - Project X 6.5 LZ

:titelist-small: 48 (SM8), 52, 56, 60 (SM7) - Nippon Modus 125 S 

:EVNROLL: ER2VI :titelist-small: PROV1X #19 

🇺🇸Thank you to all those that have served/are serving and God Bless America 🇺🇸

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

You cannot take that type of relief from a Penalty Area stake.  You may move Moveable Obstructions in a Penalty Area, or OB.  You do not get relief from Immoveable Obstructions when they're in a Penalty Area, nor when they're not on the  golf course.  It seems pretty consistent to me.  The ONLY dissimilarity is that you may not move an OB stake, which makes sense since we don't want them accidentally moved between one player and the next.

The more I learn about the rules, the more impressed  I am with how consistent they really are.  The 2019 edition made more strides in this area, and I'd bet that the Ruling Bodies are hard at work these days tweaking them so the 2023 edition is even better.

I’m not seeing how it makes any sense to treat PA stakes different than OB stakes. Why is accidentally moving an OB stake more of a concern than accidentally moving PA stake? Why not just require the stake be placed back where it was regardless? Why should an immovable PA stake allow for relief but not an immovable OB stake?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, LICC said:

I’m not seeing how it makes any sense to treat PA stakes different than OB stakes. Why is accidentally moving an OB stake more of a concern than accidentally moving PA stake? Why not just require the stake be placed back where it was regardless? Why should an immovable PA stake allow for relief but not an immovable OB stake?

Because OB carries a greater penalty then PA. Then what's to say it will get replaced exactly back all the time? Opens up more nuance of where the OB line is if gofers are allowed to move and replace. Better to to just leave it as it is.

Bottom line is they are two separate areas with different rule sets for what happens. Just like dotted and solid lines when driving, may not like that it's a solid line meaning no passing but that's the rule.

  • Like 8

 ⛳🛄 as of Sept 7, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero - Set at 9.5* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Let's also mention, the OB stake is, by definition, not on the golf course

But that is a fiction. The stake is physically located on the golf course. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Lacassem said:

Rule 19a.1 “stakes are to be constructed of rebar to prevent chopping down of stakes”

Had a nightmare about that last night… I ended up in a full body cast. 😂😂

  • Like 2
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LICC said:

But that is a fiction. The stake is physically located on the golf course. 

The stake defines the course. The front part of the stake is where the course ends. Anything beyond that point of the stake is now off the course.

18.2A see the diagram.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-18.html

  • Like 8

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The stake defines the course. The front part of the stake is where the course ends. Anything beyond that point of the stake is now off the course.

18.2A see the diagram.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-18.html

That certainly does clear that up! Nice that the diagram is as clear as it is too. No need to read the rest... kinda like Ikea build instructions!

  • Like 7

 ⛳🛄 as of Sept 7, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero - Set at 9.5* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

That certainly does clear that up! Nice that the diagram is as clear as it is too. No need to read the rest... kinda like Ikea build instructions!

This is one thing that makes the 2019 Rules a huge improvement over previous editions, the inclusion of diagrams to augment the actual words.  As you say, diagrams like this one make it absolutely clear whether a ball is OB or in play.  

 

56 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

I don't know of a single situation in golf where you get a two club relief that is not accompanied by a penalty, so you are asking for the rules to be inconsistent. As stated above, I think you need to study the rules before trying to change them.

I should have thought this through before I responded earlier.  The player CAN take 2-clublength relief for a ball near a Boundary Object, exactly as you can whenever 2-clublength relief is available.  Those occasions are Lateral Relief from a Red Penalty Area (Rule 17.1d(3)) and Lateral Relief from an Unplayable Ball (19.2c), each with a 1-stroke penalty.  I think 19.1c applies best to the ball near the Boundary Object.

  • Like 1

:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went back to the OP, and it seems to have been fueled by Justin Thomas discussion with an official about the status of a temporary fence which formed a Boundary Object for OB.  Thomas wanted it to be a Temporary Moveable Obstruction, from which he would be granted relief.  I don't know about other tournaments, but I know that when the US Open is at Pinehurst, they install green chain-link fence around most of the course, and that fence defines the OB.  I'm sure one reason to use it is to keep spectators out of the back yards of the adjacent property owners, as well as to provide a consistent boundary around the entire perimeter.  Again, I don't have direct experience, but I'm fairly sure the status of that boundary fence is defined very clearly in the Local Rules which are provided to every player at the start of the tournament.  I'm similarly sure that those decisions, to erect the fence, and to define it as the course boundary, are made by the PGA Tour, which is essentially run by and for the players themselves.  So my take-away is that JT didn't read the Local Rules carefully, and so was legitimately confused.  The other possibility is that he did know the rules, and the status of the fence,, but was hoping to get an incorrect ruling from the official.  I'd rather think of him as poorly informed than dishonest.  But at least he didn't whine to the press like a few of his competitors have recently.

  • Like 6

:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Riverboat said:

I don't know of a single situation in golf where you get a two club relief that is not accompanied by a penalty, so you are asking for the rules to be inconsistent. As stated above, I think you need to study the rules before trying to change them.

There are plenty. If the ball is on a cart path is one. I can list others but you can look them up. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think you need to learn and understand the rules a lot better before you start trying to re-write them.

Do you think an OB stake is placed on another person’s property?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, LICC said:

Do you think an OB stake is placed on another person’s property?

You need to understand the difference between the course itself and the property. The OB stake defines the course anything inside the stake is considered the course and that’s what the rules apply to. Anything outside the stake while it may still be on the courses property is off the course. The stake itself is off the course. 
 

If a course has multiple courses on property and they have holes that run next to each other or maybe ones behind the other a ball on a hole from the other course is also out of bounds because you have left the course of play despite not leaving the property. 

  • Like 6

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...